Austin should do like Chuck E Cheese and give wristbands with the same number to everybody in the same family when you come in.
I'm going to assume the lack of discussion is because I've so obviously solved it.
Weirdly enough my family doesn't have any stories like this. I think it's because my siblings of other races are all brothers. There's as much gender politics here racial politics.
A cursory search did not find it, but I seem to recall a TAL episode covering a similar incident. I think it was the black father (or maybe boyfriend) riding a white child home on his bike somewhere inlower Manhattan.
I don't know how Austin compares to Minneapolis, but in the seven years I was there it seemed as if the city was settling a police brutality lawsuit every one minute.
Actually, it was mostly just that I thought you would like it because it was a really great song and video.
Is that Grits himself posting that? That was a really great blog for info during the last horrific round of Texas avoiding any meaningful capital punishment reform.
A white male social worker I know used to get stopped like clockwork every time he had one of his teenage clients in the car. (It was in a location where police might plausibly assume that a white man with a young black teenager was either buying drugs or sex.)
I think there are two major issues at play in these situations:
- The cost of a false positive versus a false negative -- not just to society, but to the individuals
- The likelihood that it is a false positive
My experience is that American society is sufficiently segregated that many UMC white people WAY underestimate the likelihood that this sort of thing is a false positive. Because it seems to them that either case is equally likely -- it might be totally innocent! But he might be a kidnapper! -- and because in either event it seems like an outlier to them, they err on the side of caution.
But for people whose daily life experience is "unlikely" to white UMC Americans (whether because they are poorer, nonwhite, or just operating outside the supposedly "normal" context), the personal cost of repeatedly being a false positive can be quite high.
(See also: Stop-and-frisk.)
On the other hand, I am sympathetic to the fear of false negatives.
In conclusion: Life is complicated! It would be better if more people had a diversity of experiences so we didn't have to rely on dumb visual heuristics to identify potential crimes in progress.
I just got home from a weekend listening to my Chicagoland relatives refer to "the Blacks". Northern racism: it's different!
5: The county just settled with a local activist friend-of-friends, for arresting her and trespassing her for sidewalk chalking during the Occupy encampment.
Also: I stopped in to a police station the other day, as I had found some kid's bag lying on the sidewalk in front of it. They had a wall-of-honor type deal with all the KIA MPD cops going back to 190whatever, but conspicuously absent was the lesbian cop who got shot by a woman at a housing project 5 or 6 years ago. I wonder why that was?
I have heard multiple reports from acquaintances that groups of young men which include members of visibly different ethnic groups are virtually always stopped around here. Because of course we all know that street gangs must include a member of several conspicuously different ethnicities so that it shows the studio is not racist.
10.1: The best part about that incident was that the shootout had killed both the [white, lesbian] cop and the [African-American grandmother] public housing resident, and an African-American woman on the city council made a public statement along the lines of "We are grieving with both families" and the cop-lovers made this huge stink about how you shouldn't coddle The Blacks families of cop-killers. Also should mention that it seemed very likely from reports that the grandmother was having some kind of psychotic break when all this went down, so it also fit into the shoot-on-sight doctrine that the MPD has for crazy people.
my siblings of other races are all brothers
Is that still an acceptable term to use for black people?
Well played.
the problem is the busybody civillian who feared a kidnapping was in progress. Once the cop gets called in, she has to act like it might really be a kidnapping
No, we really don't, especially when the caller is not someone who personally knows the parties involved. Yes you have to respond, but any cop working a reasonably busy patrol area quickly learns that people are fucking idiots and passerby's call in unfounded allegations all the time. If you find the parties, just watch them for christ's sake. Is the girl actually being chased? Does she look afraid? The detention described in that post sounds illegal as hell.
it seemed very likely from reports that the grandmother was having some kind of psychotic break when all this went down, so it also fit into the shoot-on-sight doctrine that the MPD has for crazy people.
Going psycho and waving a gun around is going to get you shot pretty much everywhere.
A cursory search did not find it, but I seem to recall a TAL episode covering a similar incident. I think it was the black father (or maybe boyfriend) riding a white child home on his bike somewhere inlower Manhattan.
Yeah, I remember that one too. In fact, it was the first TAL I ever heard.
Anecnothing, but I have very rarely gotten any comments about being out with Mara and in fact think I've gotten less judgmental bullshit because she so clearly looks black-black and not biracial. The day we added Val and Alex to the mix, though, people started asking if I was a foster parent. It was a really strange feeling when she felt like she was mine and they were still basically sweet little strangers to know that the world was assuming I'd given birth to them and added her on at some later date.
Before that, all the questions about whether I'm her mom have always come from other little black kids. White adults had often said to me, "Oh, she's so beautiful!" which I think is code for "I'm cool with multiracial families, you know!" although also obviously true. When Lee is out with her solo, she's never had a white adult approach and say that even though Mara is every bit as lovely and charming wherever she goes. I've only gotten "Where is she from?"/"Where did you get her?" a handful of times.
Anyway, thanks for celebrating my birthday weekend with a post about single-parenting-within-a-relationship and transracial parenting, because I do indeed appreciate the subtle shoutout.
Oh, and our city's most celebrted chef lives in our neighborhood. I know several times a few years ago I did a double-take while driving by thinking, "Hmm, who's that homeless-looking guy walking with that well-dressed little girl?" and then I'd realize immediately that no, it was just the (white, European) chef with his wild hair and his daughter.
And this is just me showing my bias, but if Grandpa was, I gather, her mom's foster father, it seems like he'd understand the importance of having a piece of paper saying he has rights to the child. When fostering, I keep copies of the official papers in my purse, car, and anywhere else I think I might ever need them. I've got a copy of Mara's adoption papers and our co-parenting agreement, but I really need Lee to write up a one-sheet list of my rights and get that notarized so I can carry it in my purse. I do have her health card and that shows her hyphenated name as matching mine, but I definitely think about this and probably more than, say, heebie does.
If I'd ever been stopped by the police for being with Mara, I'd make sure I never went out without custody papers again, simply because I wouldn't want to traumatize her by getting into a bad situation with police again. I'm sort of surprised this wasn't his response. To me, protecting a young child's security is more important than proving a point about how the world ought to work. This probably sounds like I'm blaming him, but I really don't mean to. Even if he intended to be confrontational about it, I can see why he'd want to do that and not feel he has to justify his relationship with his granddaughter. I just think I'd make different choices because at this point I do.
15: I was thinking this.
19: I dunno, what is he likely to have available? He was the kid's mother's foster father (formally? informally?) twenty years or so ago. He hasn't got any direct legal relationship with the kid that would be memorialized in a piece of paper (any more than a blood relative would have). He could carry a note from her mother, but I don't see that that would be likely to straighten things out any more than having a list of phone numbers to call, as he did.
4: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/362/got-you-pegged (Act one)
I wonder if Mr. Drummond didn't cover this already.
Wasn't there an episode where Nancy Reagan arrested him?
20.2 I don't know what he'd have, but maybe at least a note from her mother. Photos on his phone of them together? When I leave Mara with my parents, I leave a zipped baggie with her medical card and a copy of the custody papers we had saying I have the right to take care of her, a note about where we'll be plus my cell number, and her inhaler. It doesn't say who they are, but it shows they have some sort of intentional connection to the child, which I'd hope would be sufficient to get help in case of emergency and at least imply they're not kidnapping her. I just can't imagine being him and having the police interaction happen twice, but I'm curious what (if anything) he'll do differently after this last situation.
I'm really not trying to justify anything about what the police did, because it sounds completely unreasonable, unhelpful, and appalling.
20
I dunno, what is he likely to have available? ...
Maybe some sort of group photo.
I guess. I just can't see anything he could have that wouldn't require a phone call to confirm that it was real, and that's right where he was without papers. He could probably have run into less trouble with a more submissive attitude though: the cop escalated because he didn't give his name on request. If he'd been more cautious, he would have realized that even though it was framed as optional, he was going to be punished for failing to comply.
Maybe some sort of group photo.
That's how pizzeria owners prove Larry Linville ate there once.
I think the "can't imagine" of the post is part of the problem. I know Heebie means it in the "that would be hard" way, but I think it's extremely common that if you are in a married, heterosexual, all-white family with kids, there is a lot you "can't imagine" about other people's lives. It's weird how little many people in that situation seem to be able to imagine about, for example, my life, or the lives of poor people, or of gay people, or people who have kids with disabilities, or adults with disabilities themselves. "Can't imagine" seems to get used for things that are actually not that uncommon, but are more to some degree more difficult than having a double-income white heterosexual married family with kids.
As I say, I know Heebie means it to acknowledge the difficulty of other people's lives relative to married middle-class privilege, but I guess I'm a little sensitive to "can't imagine." It's not as if the percentage of single or non-married-heterosexual parents is so vanishingly small that it should be a genuine shock to see an adult man with a small granddaughter of another race. The people who called this in are shitty fucking people.
If he'd been more cautious, he would have realized that even though it was framed as optional, he was going to be punished for failing to comply.
All we have to meet to require that ID is reasonable suspicion and that she let him go means she knew she had nothing. That sequence of events has settlement check written all over it.
...but I think it's extremely common that if you are in a married, heterosexual, all-white family with kids, there is a lot you "can't imagine" about other people's lives.
True, but the dental plan makes it hard to leave.
29: The "can't imagine" in the first paragraph is unrelated to the rest of the post. That was strictly because Jammies has been out of town and I was exhausted. For all meaningful purposes, the post starts with "Unrelatedly" in the second paragraph.
29: I've started substituting "I can only imagine" in situations where I would be inclined to say "I can't imagine." It properly indicates that there is a gap in fortune between me and the people I'm talking to or about. I'm not presuming to know other's feelings or trying to say that my hangnail is as big a problem as their cancer. On the other hand, it doesn't convey the message that the other person is from another world than I.
Also, it is just more accurate. I can imagine, but I don't know.
I'm not saying people shouldn't enjoy their privilege. They should enjoy it! But declaring that anyone whose life has even a tiny bit less privilege than yours is "unimaginable" is... condescending at best? I don't mean to pick a fight; I have too much to do today. I've just heard this from too many super-wealthy people, that they "can't imagine" life without a maid and a nanny and a husband and separate rooms for all the kids and a full-service private school and a yoga class with massage service... In the more absurd cases, one does begin to wonder if not being able to imagine other people's lives is counterproductive to fellow-feeling. (How does one have a maid but "can't imagine" the life of the maid?)
Maybe some sort of group photo.
(I can't find the image on the apostropher's blog.)
I've just heard this from too many super-wealthy people, that they "can't imagine" life without a maid and a nanny and a husband and separate rooms for all the kids and a full-service private school and a yoga class with massage service
Huh, I thought I had met a fair number of rich people, but you must have me beat, because I've never heard anything like this.
Also "husband" seems like it's in a somewhat different category, there?
29, 34: One could argue that "I can't imagine" is a species of the acknowledgment of privilege (and moral contingency) that the Internet demands but never finds satisfying. Something Maoist self-criticism something.
On the other hand, a lot of the time "I can't imagine" might just mean "I don't care."
37: "I can't imagine life without a husband" seems a very different statement from "I can't imagine life without my husband." One is distinctly more flattering to the poor bastard than the other, at least.
Certainly on the internet it's a lot easier to believe people when they say they "can't imagine" the life of someone with less privilege. In real life, when I've heard it, it never fails to make me hate the person. And yes to 37, I can't imagine parenting without my maid/nanny/husband/aesthetician...
It's especially funny because people can *always* imagine living the life of someone with more privilege than they have.
34: I like that reframing. One thing that really bothers me is how often I've heard Christians (admittedly sometimes because I've gone to their church) say not just "I can't imagine how I could have survived without God's intervention!" but "I can't imagine how anyone could experience xyz without recognizing God," which just makes me think that the Big Guy should have done a better job creating imaginations.
In my very small parenting experience, I've found it hard and frustrating to switch from a routine I've got down to doing something else (like adding two more kids overnight) and I think it's that kind of that that heebie was saying. When your system is that your partner does certain elements of the work, it's going to be frustrating and baffling to have to manage it all yourself when you already felt plenty busy with your part. If you'd never had a partner, you'd still have had to met the same needs and would have found a way to make it work, but having to take on new stuff while managing your old stuff is (or was for me) tough in a different way.
But don't mind me. I'm just playing out my role in that story about how the house felt too full and so the rabbi made them bring in a sheep and a cow and so on until when the house emptied again, it suddenly felt ridiculously spacious. I'm not even going to luck up whether I'm remembering it right.
34: Sounds like someone can't imagine having a shitty faculty of imagination...
Well, I suppose the gradual transition from Walking-While-Black to Walking-While-Interracial as anathema is progress, of a sort. Though I won't speculate on what outcome reversing the racial makeup of the grandparent-child pair would've led to.
(As for the busybody civilian: while a catalyst, they didn't force the Austin PD to dispatch ten squad cars -- if in fact that's what happened -- and behave the way Grits describes. Yes, he should've given his name; OTOH, not okay for the cops to act as though declining to Present Your Papers makes it okay for them to do something like this. Though perhaps gswift will disagree.)
34: I think the problem is that a lot of them think they're just using it as a figure of speech, but that actually, they really can't imagine. Foodies* often manifest as a symptom of this: I was having an after-hours chat with the chef at a bar I used to frequent**, and now just occasion, and he got to waxing lyrical (I was there with a friend who was in social work at the time) about how he'd absolutely love to do a cooking clinic for the working poor. I was fascinated by this idea at first, and asked him what kinds of tips and tricks he would pass on, and his first example was -- and I am not making this up -- that they should definitely go out and buy fresh mozzarella at the Italian market and not that awful grated stuff they have at Safeway.
Admittedly my reaction to this was unkind. But as much as it gets genuinely hard to think outside one's own default level of luxury, I also think some of these people are choosing not to expend any imaginative effort.
(* I know some of you here are foodies, and I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about the other, bad kind.)
(** I positively can't imagine what it would be like to not have anecdotes like this.)
43: It's true! Hypocrisy, thy name is AWB!
that they should definitely go out and buy fresh mozzarella at the Italian market and not that awful grated stuff they have at Safeway.
Fucking hilarious. I used to hear this while cutting cheeses for sale at the Park Slope Food Coop. One woman I worked with would not touch (sneer) cheddar, so I always cut it, and she would go on and on about how you always see "those food stamp people" buying it. Cheddar! Good local New York cheddar! She couldn't imagine ingesting it.
I'm just playing out my role in that story about how the house felt too full and so the rabbi made them bring in a sheep and a cow and so on until when the house emptied again, it suddenly felt ridiculously spacious. I'm not even going to luck up whether I'm remembering it right.
Too funny, Thorn! I was thinking about that story in relation to your situation. In the version I tell the only animal involved is a goat.
Changes of parenting status are famously hard to imagine. I quite literally find it hard to imagine what having kids would be like, and I think that's quite normal.
In the version I tell the only animal involved is a goat.
I can't imagine why you are so fixated on goats.
It's difficult for me to imagine a world before cellphones.
50: You must be confused. That's completely different.
48: I rarely go to the food coöp because I always feel they're judging me based on my cheese selection and the fact that I don't like the bulk bin foods much.
54: They are judging you, because you shop there so rarely.
I usually go to Whole Foods. Their bulk bins have chutes that drop food into the bag. That way, my popcorn isn't all pawed by hippies using a scoop.
Yes, he should've given his name; OTOH, not okay for the cops to act as though declining to Present Your Papers makes it okay for them to do something like this. Though perhaps gswift will disagree.
He doesn't have to give his name. The complainant is a stranger and the responding officer saw nothing to correlate the call. If they're hell bent on getting it just do it when he jaywalks. That's an actual offense and they can require the ID and write him a warning or something. But prior to that they had what, a Race Mixing in progress? Not illegal, even in Texas.
49: Thank you for highlighting that I can't spell "look." I think a goat would probably be sufficient, what with the eating and stinking and pooping, not to mention the weird-looking pupils.
not to mention the weird-looking pupils
Probably most schools have a rule about this.
It's funny: it doesn't strike me odd at all that the situation got out of control once the cops were involved. It's a shame and things should be changed so this sort of thing doesn't happen, but that a stiffnecked guy talking to a cop for any reason triggered escalation seems like a very ordinary way of things going wrong -- it's a version of the Skip Gates thing.
What I really can't follow is the thought process that led the initial weirdo to call the police at all: why would seeing an old man with a little girl of a different race provoke that reaction? I mean, racist, sure, but what literally is going through the person's head to make them think that the police need to intervene?
Maybe it was somebody with a grudge against him or the girl's parents? Maybe I'm just reaching to figure a way to make sense of it?
Well, that's it. Straightforward malice, I can see, whether personal or randomly anti-miscegenationist. But the sort of racism that gets you to do racist but not-consciously-in-bad-faith things, which is what I figure most racism is, I don't see the thought process.
I'd give two dollars and eight cents to know the race and age of the person who called.
Cheddar! Good local New York cheddar! She couldn't imagine ingesting it.
All the more for the rest of us, then.
I think you have to make a distinction between people like this, who are simply making themselves appear ridiculous, and people who can't imagine, for instance, that people living in poor neighbourhoods can't shop at upmarket places not just because they can't afford the products but because the logistical challenge of getting there and back is insuperable. These people actually can imagine it when you explain it; they just don't think very deeply without prompting.
Not to harp on AWB's complaint in 34, but there's a big semantic difference between saying something is "unimaginable" and that you "can't imagine" it.
61: I think it's much more likely it was a combination of obviously the lack of race-matching, and the general hysteria around stranger danger combined the assumption that men don't/shouldn't take care of kids as part of the normal matter of things.
Oh, never mind: I looked back at the post and the guy does say that the kid was running ahead of him out of the parking lot. That does bring it into where I could see a racist-but-consciously-in-good-faith, or possibly just silly, person worrying about kidnapping.
67: Only if that person never actually watched a five-year-old.
66 seems right - there's a bunch of assumptions getting broken at once.
68: Oh, it's still idiotic -- it was just that even with all the assumptions in 66, I still couldn't get from 'kid walking calmly with older male caregiver of a different race' to 'call the cops'. Once you throw in running and chasing, while it remains idiotic, I can follow the idiocy.
I think the assumption in 66 gets you to thinking no man is going to be a caregiver to a child who isn't his biological kid and from there you* can't think of anything but kidnapping.
* where 'you' is someone with way too much time watching TV.
I was in a café once with my brother when he was small. Maybe 3 or 4. As he didn't know his Dad, and I was the primary male figure in his life he was sometimes a bit confused. While we were waiting to pay he piped up:
"Ay* you're my dad?"
"No, no I'm not your dad."
The teller then went all wide-eyed and suspicious, as she must have been imaging all sorts of reasons why the long-haired bloke was holding the wee boy's hand.
" ... I'm your big brother."
Sigh of relief.
* not actually 'Aye' as in 'yes', but more /e/ as in 'isn't it true that ...'
I'm still thinking about this. There have definitely been times when Mara's been fussing at me and I can see some raised eyebrows and I'll say, "Come on, sweetheart, we need to get you home to your mama" or something like that and that seems to relieve any tension. It's possible this is mostly in my head, but I'm definitely aware of a lot of this stuff because I'm part of a conspicuous family.
Last night I resisted the urge to teach Hawaiian Punch to say "Me love you long time!"
77: That's not an urge that should be resisted, heebie.
Is there some current song with "Me love you long time" as a lyric? I was in the grocery store, and this thing came on, and I was kind of surprised/offended/befuddled that this was regarded as okay.
80: The famously offensive 2Live Crew sampled that line from Full Metal Jacket for their timeless classic, "Me So Horny." You're probably hearing them, or (maybe) someone covering them? We've had "cover" versions of "99 Problems," so anything is possible.
It was a woman singing, and I'm actually not dead sure the line was 'Me love you long time', but it was at least close, and as unambiguously offensive. Not a sample, I don't think, it was the same voice as the rest of the song. It just seemed out of line for background music in the grocery store.
Following up on 43, I apparently do actually have a pretty terrible imagine-what-it's-like skills. I used to try to figure out how to treat other people by imagining myself in their shoes, but this led to some pretty spectacular foul-ups and people I cared about got hurt.
Now I evaluate motives and desires based on verbalized and revealed preferences. I adjust my expectations of others based on objective features of their situations, and the known ways in which those affect people's actions. Using this approach, I am much more successful at being nice. It's also helped me understand myself better when I think about myself as if from the outside.
Probably this song. The lyrics are a disaster zone for so many other reasons.
77: That's not an urge that should be resisted, heebie.
It probably should be if you don't want a visit from the Child Protection Services.
Oh. Fergie. That would explain it.
82: I'm pretty sure it's in a recent Nicki Minaj song, too, and wtf? Apparently so, though this doesn't say which song.
They're actually quoting someone else's well-known use of a sample. I actually can't decide if that's better or worse than just recycling the sample.
I'm going to assume that the are quoting the Supreme Court decision, not the song that quotes the movie.
Or did the Supreme Court just refused to hear the appeal?
So wait, 15 minutes ago you didn't know the song existed, and know you know what they were intending to make reference to in their lyrics? That's amazing! Did you get them on the phone and ask, or what?
Before I had a sweetheart and was debating having a kid by myself, watching my sister work as hard as she does as a single parent was substantially off-putting. I'm pretty sure that if I hadn't seen what she does (and helped her a fair amount), and only had a rough concept of single parenting, I would have gone ahead with the sperm bank. But I kept looking at her and getting intimidated again.
Now my sweetie is completely on board with having a family fast, and more help than I was able to imagine when I was single. But it was a real dilemma that I only barely escaped.
48: I remember you mentioning that woman in 2006, and Apo's funny response.
81: Anyone here watched that video recently? It's kinda weird. Obviously the the main thrust (as it were) of the lyrics is fucked up and misogynistic, but there's some interesting stuff going on there. The fact that the rappers are echoing the "me so horny" sample, suggesting that they identify with the prostitute is, I think, not insignificant. Also, the one fellow brags about receiving analingus, which, while perhaps not technically queer, is certainly somewhat removed from the straight and narrow.
If you're a parent, and you want to imagine being a single parent, it's easy. You know when your partner is out of town and unreachable for a few days and you are in charge of the kids with no support (other than what you specifically arrange)? It's just that, extended out over time.
95: And when your partner goes to sleep at night, you can bury her because that's pretty much the same thing as death.
re: 95
To be fair, it's usually a bit like that, only with a lot less money ...
92: While it happens that Nicki is on my speed-dial for booty calls and such, it's actually just a reasonable surmise based on contextual knowledge of the genre.
How's the new medication working out, BTW?
Thing is, without a partner, there's no back-up system. If you don't keep the baby aspirin full and let the gas tank get empty (because the kids were crying and it seemed worth it to get home to let them out of the car and make dinner), you can find yourself in a bad way in the middle of the night, and no one to dash out and help. It doesn't happen often, but it is a shocking amount of work to make sure that it never happens.
99.1: I was sort of hoping for full blowhard.
"Well, Sifu, hip hop acts that have sold out to make shitty dance pop are very aware of the history of the genre and tend to embed references to classic works as metatextual evocations of a common history even in the face of commercial pressure. Also one may surmise that will.i.am had a falling out with Kubrick over the failed attempt to re-score Barry Lyndon and has absolutely refused to quote his movies in song lyrics."
So, not so well, then. Well, keep on pluggin' away there, champ.
Yeah, that's the difference between single-parenting for chunks of time under a week and doing it for real -- if you usually have backup, you can sort of fake your way through a week by just assuming nothing particularly difficult is likely to happen. For an extended period of time, you need to plan for emergencies.
100: Don't give aspirin to a baby. Baby aspirin is for blood thinning only.
102: no no, I want to hear more.
In the category of 'stupid advice,' I present this true story. During the Gulf war of Bush the lesser, I read some of the blogs written by people in Iraq. One of them commented on how the supply of heating oil was becoming scarce, and some Iraqi citizens were having trouble heating their homes.
A self-identified "Good Christian woman" from middle America offered this advice: "You should get a wood burning stove. My son did that for us and it keeps us toasty warm."
She also told the people of Iraq "You should be happy that we have come into your country to take care of you. It is like in the Bible, and the USA is the husband and Iraq is the wife. Jesus instructs husbands to care for their wives with a gentle but firm loving hand."
She was an embarrassment to us all. Argh!
100: There is a back up system if the extended family hasn't fragmented. I think that's one of the saddest developments of the past couple of generations. Being able to lean on family (and in turn be leaned on) is the thing I miss most about being half a planet away from them. Even a hundred miles raises a significant obstacle.
There's a long digression about how this is all an side effect of capitalism that I'll spare you.
107: You should get a wood burning stove.
Oh my God.
Emergencies are tough, but because they're emergencies people are accommodating and you can get through. What's harder is the day to day, oh man I need to do something could someone else pay attention to the kid for 10 minutes, and having no one available, aside from school or day care or whatever. Not that I'm strictu sensu a single parent but I do feel like I have some insight.
people can *always* imagine living the life of someone with more privilege than they have
This actually seems way harder than imagining less privilege. I have experienced lots of temporary shitty situations: been sick, injured, carless, strapped for cash, saddled with crabby children, ill-treated by persons in positions of authority, etc. But I don't have similar mini-experiences of privilege.
It's also just the accumulation. I can kind of imagine what it'd be like to have kids for *one day* because I've stayed with friends with kids, but then I sleep an extra hour every night for the next week to recover. Single parenthood presumably has the same effect vis-a-vis parenting.
Turns out I know Mr. for Breakfast, as we ran in similar lefty circles during and after undergrad. And as snarkout said in 7, his blog is a great source for info on criminal justice issues, particularly, but not exclusively, Texas. Didn't know he was a grandfather though. Now I feel old.
111: I have experienced lots of temporary shitty situations: been sick, injured, carless, strapped for cash, saddled with crabby children, ill-treated by persons in positions of authority, etc. But I don't have similar mini-experiences of privilege.
Actually, you probably have - because a big bit of being privileged is not having to worry about stuff. So your mini-experiences of privilege are, basically, all the time when you aren't actively worrying about stuff; just imagine that being the case all the time, for everything.
That would be a macro-experience, not a mini-experience.
113: He doesn't say how old he was when his daughter came into his life. I was a little nervous about foster parenting teens as a 30-year-old because I could be a grandparent by now too and that's weird.
114: No, they just worry about different things, things that the unfoggetariat deprecate. They don't seem serene though.
A kid who was a year behind me in high school is now a grandparent. Thanks to Facebook, I'm able to appreciate this and feel old.
Jesus instructs husbands to care for their wives with a gentle but firm loving hand.
[Teeth grinding.]
Whenever I read something like this -- fortunately, not that often -- I feel like yelling "He isn't a tame lion Sun Belt shopping center marriage counselor."
Flippanter: Objectively pro-Medical office building.
I know Ive mentioned this before, but I will repeat it.
My daughter has thrown some raging fits in public places over the years. I usually spend some time trying to calm her down, and ignoring the glares and stares of people around me.
But, there has often come a time when I have to throw her over my shoulder and carry her out of places. Since she is not small and will be kicking, hitting, and trying to bite me, this can be relatively disturbing looking.
I always make sure to walk slowly and loudly repeat "Why do you want to bite your daddy? If you listen and behave, then we can walk."
She is almost 20. I have had to do this many, many times. I have only been approached 3 times by the police, and one other time by some other people making sure I wasnt kidnapping her.
I am lucky that nobody has ever tased me.
114: No, they just worry about different things, things that the unfoggetariat deprecate. They don't seem serene though.
Yeah, I've seen the same thing. I think maybe Maslow's "Hierarchy of Needs" should be Maslow's "Hierarchy of Worry," because we homo sapiens seem to be built to worry. I think we are built for restlessness and vague dissatisfaction, too. Maybe that allowed us to claw our way to the top on the veldt, but it sure sucks nowadays.
118: I'm forty, and I'm a great-aunt three times over. (Now, Buck's six years older than I am, and his sister another year older than that, but it still feels premature).
119:[Teeth grinding.]
Pardon my language, but when I read that comment about Jesus wanting Iraq to be the wife of America, I wondered how the Iraqis felt about essentially being told that Jesus says they need to be America's bitches.
I wondered how they liked all that pulverized depleted Uranium blowing all over their country. Yeah, I know, it is not radioactive, but it is still a heavy metal - like lead, which we cleaned out of our back yards fifty years ago.
Hey, Iraqis, breathe this and praise Jesus. Boorah.
123: I'm only be-uncled once. I have shy siblings and an old child for a wife.
"only child"
It's been that kind of a day.
125: "To Catch a Predator" Squad: Go!
He doesn't say how old he was when his daughter came into his life.
He's the same age as me, give or take a year, which means he's in his early to mid 40s right now. I know plenty of people my age, mainly from work, who are grandparents now, but the fact that Grits and I used to run around together as young adults makes it feel strange for him to be a grandfather now (though he's never sired any children, as far as I know).
125: Priceless. Paging Dr. Freud, paging Dr. Freud.
125: Moby was merely paying homage to John Prine's artistry. (Coming to P'burgh with Leo Kottke in early March.)
131 -- He's great live. Saw him about two years ago.
I think what will is saying in 121 is that he's pro-slavery.
122: Maslow's "Hierarchy of Needs" should be Maslow's "Hierarchy of Worry"
Brilliant! The evidence for this is everywhere one looks. Instead of the futile attempts to get rid of it, we could get rich by starting some tax-free organization to teach people to "Embrace your Anxiety".
132: Yes, have seen him once before some years back, we bought tickets the first day, although Kottke is who everyone is most excited for (I first saw him live 34 years ago and a couple of times since).
Take it to the out-of-touch music thread, you guys.
Leo Kottke is wonderful, great, terrific. ! I've seen him twice, and just have such a warm soft spot in my heart for him.
(/adoration)
136: I will grant that we old pukes are certainly doing a pretty good job of laming the place up.
John Prine is excellent in concert. I saw him about 5 or 6 years ago and he was better than he was when I saw him 20 years ago.
134: I know. I wrote a musical* on this very same topic. The hit song -"Age of Anxiety," was sung to the tune of "Age of Aquarius."
When a Bush,
is in the White House,
and bin Laden,
is lurking overseas,
Then fear, will rule the heartland,
and they will scare us all,
this is the dawning of the Age of Anxiety . . .
*Well, okay, that is as far as I got, but it could be awesome, don't you think?
Paging Joe Drymala. Mr. Drymala? Paging Joe Drymala.
141: It's not your fellow old pukes that you have to beg the pardon of.
I like the implication that the younger 30 somethings of Unfogged are out there freaking to Nicki Minaj while the oldtimers play their John Prine and Dylan.
Also, this (who is Paul McCartney?) is what the truly non-old, non-pukes are saying.
Well, obviously I beg nobody's pardon, but if I were to, it would be my fellow old pukes. I refuse to concede, in any case, that there has been any laming of the thread on the part of old pukes.
I'm not the one who suddenly starts talking about going on a knitting cruise.
144:
Isnt he friends with the Newman's salad dressing guy?
114: Well, OK, sure. But I have never employed anyone, or been anyone's boss, or negotiated much of anything. So I have trouble imagining what it's like to have a nanny. (I am not even 100% sure what a nanny does. Is a nanny just a baby-sitter with a regular gig, like day care for rich people, or does she also work evenings/weekends? Is it a salaried position, or hourly? Does one expect the nanny to do other chores around the house at all? Etc.)
I caught myself asking, a few months ago, "Who is Nicki Minaj?" in precisely the same quizzical tone that the Flip-Pater used when asking about various supervillains when I was a lad ("No, Dad, Kraven the Hunter is Spider-man's enemy! Daredevil is his friend! This is important!").
The takeaway: I am very old.
I am not even 100% sure what a nanny does.
Jude Law had that problem.
147: We called our babysitter a nanny meaning fulltime 9-6, salaried, no chores beyond baby care. (There was a short period of paying her extra to clean as well, but that stopped when we figured out that she was as lousy at cleaning as I am, and not nearly as good as Buck.) But it can mean anything. I miss having her around: she was awesome.
So I have trouble imagining what it's like to have a nanny.
I don't. But my imaginings may not be entirely accurate.
For sure I'm not doing enough to keep it real.
on the part of old pukes.
It would have to be our fault. The interwebs tell me that the youngsters all shave or wax their pukes now.
Huh. And it has just occurred to me that she'd probably like to come to Sally's school play, some traditional Chilean musical in Spanish. I'm just going to have to sit through it and try and figure out what's going on from context, but Nancy will be able to preen over the bell-like clarity of the Colombian accent Sally picked up from her.
148.last: Hogwash. I get a little tired of this sort of theme, to be honest: for fuck's suck, a person can't track every goddamned thing, and it is not a mark of being, for practical purposes, the walking dead to find that whatever's going on lately, on every front, is not of foremost concern. Cripe! Get over it! There are decades yet to come.
There are decades yet to come.
YOU JUST KEEP TELLING YOURSELF THAT, MISSY
apostropher is very great at making me laugh. Thanks, man.
147: Looks like there's a demand for nannies. Of course, this is the nanny state.
155: Or, to look at it another way, we're all rapidly decaying until death comes as an inevitable and welcome relief from the humiliation and discomfort of aging. Six of one, half a dozen of the other, really.
158: do you know how many things there are that one could google? Who has the time?!
"google"? W3Catalog doesn't tell me anything about that.
Playing it cool is for those damn kids trying too hard. 155.last, paying attention to what's coming, is absolutely the way to go. Just make sure you're not hoping for this.
I pretty emphatically disagree with the inevitable decay angle, think it's a dangerous idea for the middle-aged. Midlife being the time that people are least happy is an empirical fact in OECD economies.
Wallace Stevens wrote EMperor of Ice Cream when he was 43. Paul Levy produced insightful completely new work in his fifties.
143: And you play your Robert Zimmerman
And I my Joan Baez
And we mark our place with album covers
While ignoring what that says.
My uncontrollable eye-rolling has abated; it's a good thing that this is a safe space, is all I'm saying.
Grow old along with me!
The best is yet to be,
The last of life, for which the first was made:
...
An on and on and on in that vein, but tl,dr.
165: Was that even searchable? I'm repressing stuff and maybe didn't have access to the internet for very long before those were eclipsed.
heck yeah gopher was searchable. It's all been downhill since gopher and archie.
167: Except for knitting cruise aficionados, apparently.
170: It's all been downhill since gopher and archie.
Heh, I was wondering what kind of cranky nostalgians this line in the gopher Wikipedia article referred to.
Gopher users remember the system as being "faster and more efficient and so much more organised" than today's Web services.
My uncontrollable eye-rolling
Stroke is the most common cause of nystagmus in older people, parsimon. Though head trauma can cause it too, and old people fall down a lot.
Midlife being the time that people are least happy is an empirical fact in OECD economies.
Is that true. I thought people got happier in midlife and then gradually less happy as they had to deal with age-related infirmities.
160: we're all rapidly decaying until death comes as an inevitable and welcome relief from the humiliation and discomfort of aging.
Well yeah, there's that. My favorite version* to ponder while I rock in front of my fire:
My dear fellow, we sit here on a blind rock careening through space; we are all of us rushing headlong to the grave. Think you the worms will care, when anon they make a meal of you, whether you spent your moment sighing wigless in your chamber, or sacked the golden towns of Montezuma? .... We are dying men: i'faith, there's time for naught but bold resolves!
*Which I now post in this venue for the third time--so it's all used up.
so it's all used up
Like our shriveled, graying pukes.
177: I'm going to bet yours (or most of yours, or some) are still flaming red... not that I've ever spent any time thinking about them.
It's not comforting that no matter how little you accomplish, you'll end up in the same state as Mozart, Newton, etc.?
175. Who knows, demographic happiness is a shitty abstraction that people only write about to retrieve easy grant money. But there's a widely-reproduced paper that says so.
177. Listen, just between us, modern science might be able to help, at least that's what the ads say.
For a while, I had thought that both makers of dental instruments and suppliers of plastic surgery materials would be demographically promising investments. But flouride in the 50s means that people need less dentistry than a generation ago, and plastic surgery is changing pretty quickly, so hard to say what people will want even few years out.
so hard to say what people will want even few years out
"I'm thinking one big eye in the middle of your forehead."
180.last: Invest in a basket of technologies related to mitigating or reversing hearing loss. The first generation to have grown up with widespread use of headphones is just entering the prime age for the consequences of blasting loud music directly into the ear to become apparent.
A decade ago I said that people would abandon naturalism with plastic surgery. Stuff like this is still extreme and pretty unusual, but that was voluntary and lots of editors choose to run photos of it.
185: NOOOOOOO what are you unleashing
184 to 181. She's an attorney, by the way.
Hadn't thought of 183.
186. Mouse that roared, 181, or both.
My money is on the medical tech stuff. People be wanting to change their skins like they do their clothes. And, if it can be done, internet to your optic nerve. If that is not possible, then internet on a contact lens.
187.1: I mean, I know a guy who has had implants for fifteen years or so. He's an extremely successful entrepreneur. It's still pretty fucking fringe, though.
Hmmm, advertising displayed on a person's body? Yeah, it could happen.
Who knows, demographic happiness is a shitty abstraction that people only write about to retrieve easy grant money. But there's a widely-reproduced paper that says so.
I stand corrected, thanks (and, yes, thinking about all of the factors that could cause somebody's happiness to change from 30 to 40 makes it clear that a population statistic like that is of questionable value).
Tattoos that work like an computer monitor are not far off. Not that I have any inside scoop or anything, just a prediction.
182: Okay, but it will take a couple of weeks or so.
Just long enough for everyone to forget what's coming and then be surprised.
191. Oh, I'm not arguing-- I brought it up, was qualifying my initial claim. The guy that wrote the paper is an economist, not a thinker.
The standard misery indexes (poverty, suicide, and addiction) don't suggest that old age is happy in the aggregate. I don't much care about the aggregate, though, and am happy enough for a shaky basis for personal optimism, better than none.
194: then be surprised.
"and nice red ..."
||
OT: I chuckled at this bit of snark from a commenter at CT (it is very nice that work has been less hectic lately; I'm not sure that reading CT comments is the best use of my time, but . . .):
I don't know if you've ever taught middle school students, but I have. There were always a significant number of sullen, slow students in the class, and since you're no longer allowed to beat them, you must occasionally engage in inane, convoluted arguments to get them to do what they are supposed to be doing.
This is why ACA, and not a single payer system, made it through Congress.
|>
The standard misery indexes (poverty, suicide, and addiction) don't suggest that old age is happy in the aggregate.
So, helium or SWAT? I can make a case for either, but which would benefit society the most? He is quiet and neat, SWAT gives everyone in the surrounding area practice in dealing with emergencies.
I don't understand 197. Are the lazy kids an analogy for Congress?
I don't understand 197. Are the lazy kids an analogy for Congress?
I presume so.
I would also add that part of what makes it funny, I think, is that it isn't literally saying that life would be better if we could cudgel the congressional opposition into doing what we want, but rather that the process of arguing with political opponents can feel as frustrating and pointless as trying to get a tween to do something that they don't want to do.
The results were not so good last time Congress ran on beatings.
When Congress ran on beatings, it was an awful time,
The year was 1856, when came that Hellish crime,
By a son of Carolina, name of Preston Brooks,
Beloved of the slavers, the nasty, wealthy crooks.
Charles Sumner was a hero, a champion of right,
He saw the sin of bondage, and then took up the fight.
Sumner, he stood up and said, that slavery was a whore,
Brooks took up the slavers' club and beat him to the floor.
But with that brutal affray, so many saw the truth,
The South was filled with evil men, greedy and uncouth.
'Twas only three years later, in 1859,
John Brown lit up the torch, for freedom it would shine.
For years the war was fought, in trenches filled with mud,
So that the sin of slav'ry might now be purged by blood.
So many men and women lived and died as slaves,
And the bodies of young soldiers filled up so many graves.
If somehow Preston Brooks, could have seen what was to be,
The shattered bones, the burning homes, the march unto the sea,
If somehow he had known, would he have been so quick,
To beat an abolitionist with his old walking stick?
Better version:
When Congress ran on beatings, it was an awful time,
The year was 1856, when came that heinous crime,
By a son of Carolina, name of Preston Brooks,
Beloved of the slavers, the nasty, greedy crooks.
Charles Sumner was a hero, a champion of right,
He saw the sin of bondage, and then took up the fight.
Sumner, he stood proud and said, that slavery was a whore,
Brooks pick'd up the slavers' club and beat him to the floor.
But with that brutal affray, so many saw the truth,
The South was filled with vicious men, violent and uncouth.
'Twas only three years later, in 1859,
John Brown he lit the torch, for freedom it would shine.
Four hundred years of struggle, four hundred years of woe,
It came the time for reaping, the seeds of wrath they sowed.
Nat Turner, Denmark Vesey, Cudjoe, Gabriel,
And countles nameless others, fighting back in Hell.
And Gen'ral Harriet Tubman, the Sword of Liberty,
Who went back to the lion's den, her friends and kin to free.
So many years they did resist, though oft it seemed in vain,
Slowly adding miles of track, to carry freedom's train.
When came the conflagration, their tears and scars the fuel,
Slaves and freedmen came to fight, to crush villainy's rule.
And common people young and old, although their skin was white,
Rushed to aid their brethren, vict'ry in their sights.
Four years the war was fought, in trenches filled with mud,
So that the sin of slav'ry might now be purged by blood.
So many men and women lived and died as slaves,
And the bodies of young soldiers filled up so many graves.
If somehow Preston Brooks, could've seen what was to be,
The shattered bones, the burning homes, the march unto the sea,
If somehow he had known, would he have been so quick,
To beat an abolitionist with his old walking stick?
198. Personally, I take instrumental thoughts like that as warning signs. Good luck.
I was thinking about the tune of "The Smashing of The Van" while writing this, hence the meter, such as it is.
210: that is thoughtful of you, but doesn't everyone speculate on various ways to kill themselves if the occasion should arise? diagnosed with alzheimer's but still enough mental whateverness to get a shotgun? OK, wait, I'm often suicidally depressed (but not now, oddly), so probably everybody doesn't think that way all the time. just the crazy ones.
the pain doctor asked me to consider what had changed in the last few months that might be a trigger and the only thing I could think of was, I had an episode of major depression in october and november and completely lost my shit? (maybe september too, I could rtfa and check but I don't want to.) could that trigger two and a half months of migraines? somatized whatnot. I don't know. if I have to finish my lame oprah child abuse homework to get better I will be pissed.
whatever works, I guess, but I foresee my psychiatrist insisting that I talk to my family about it and I really don't see the point. it will just make my mom feel (justifiably) guilty, and my sister totally unreasonably guilty, and my brother bummed out. and I absolutely draw the line at telling my dad, fuck a bunch of that. it's not like he's ever going to turn around and say, "hey, sorry I didn't do anything to protect you from all that horrible abuse that I totally knew about. I suck as a father." I want to go back to my traditional WASPy roots and just pretend nothing ever happened and everything is fine. to be fair, this strategy traditionally requires cocktails in order to succeed, but I could improvise. there's something to emerson's: "sleeping bodies, let them lie" strategy. unless they're rotting your head from the inside out with incomprehensible agony, then I suppose one might wish to exhume them. now I'm imagining that they have maggots, I shouldn't have thought of that. I have an overly vivid imagination. I have been having nightmares about zombies, surely the most obvious ever "you thought you killed the stuff in your past but now it's dead-alive and shambling forth to eat your brains" dream.
relatedly, verdict: oxycontin's pretty great. possibly too great.
213: doesn't everyone speculate on various ways to kill themselves if the occasion should arise?
Not really, no.
However, I thought it was pretty clear Biohazard was joking. And I think the obvious answer to the question in 198 is SWAT, no question. Blaze of glory and all that.
Plus a bunch of SWAT guys will get OT which is important in this tough economic times.
true but then they'll be forced to go to counseling about shooting someone. I suppose as long as they're paid for that too it's no harm done. narnia is absurdly crime-free, as you probably know, but I feel additional safety in that there is a big cop shop (a police "station" rather than a "post") literally within shouting distance of my home. hopefully the occasion will never arise, but I'm fairly sure the guard in the entry booth could hear my if I were screaming my head off, though he might at first mistake it for the miserable cries of the children in the 3 daycare/preschools across the back alley from my house. I sleep in, and their pitiful sobbing for "mommy" often makes its way into my dreams. there's a new kid who's miserable, the poor thing is wailing right now.
Slowly adding miles of track, to carry freedom's train.
I like this a lot.
213: As for myself, I used to get antsy if I did not have enough cash on hand to purchase a shotgun, should the need arise. Now I have a ridiculous credit line, from several major banks, so I don't worry about it too much.
I asked the psychologist how fucked-up she thought I was, a few months ago. She kinda laughed it off. It would be fun, but perhaps impolitic, to list off the frequent commenters in order of craziness and dysfunction. My main concern would be finding myself stuck in the middle of the list.
My main concern would be finding myself stuck in the middle ofleft off the list.
