He just recently told me that she seems to be unenthused, at best, about the direction the project has taken.
I'd ask for clarification on this. Maybe she thinks they should drop the project and spend the money elsewhere, and in that case you should know about it (regardless of gender roles) because you might lose the job.
I think you should become an architect who is a specialized rabbi by night. You could only do the coming of age ceremony for young women and call yourself Bat Mitzvah Man.
heebie, I think you mistyped when you wrote, "and ina role-reversal, you would be concerned if the man seemed to be unenthused about the direction of the project."
I think that JRoth said that he wouldn't blink if the man seemed unenthused. In fact, it's fairly common (at least in stereotype) for men not to care about the design of their house and how it's decorated.
Further to 3: Ooh, I misread, but I still think that for reasons of traditional gender norms JRoth might not care about the man's opinion.
2: A friend of my Mom's had her kitchen redone when her husband inherited a very old house. Their architect had on his wall his license qualifying him as a marriage and family therapist.
I don't think he'd care if the man was disengaged. I do think JRoth would care if a wife said "My husband seems to be unenthused, at best, about the direction the project has taken."
I'm not reading it as "I'm unenthusiastic about interior decorating" but "I'm uneasy about the decisions being made."
Just to clarify, the husband hasn't done anything like making a Steeler-themed kitchen or asked for a frieze of a scene from Full House on the front?
* this project is potentially a big deal. It is located literally next door to 2 houses by world-famous architects, on an incredibly prestigious road.
Let ambition rule. This is a career maker. California? No-fault and community, they'll be fine. Fuck 'em all.
Get as much up-front as possible. Keep control.
Yeah, I am hung up on the same thing heebie is. JRoth, are you saying she just isn't bothering with the project or seems to hate the direction things are going? If it's the former, well, don't be so sexist and assume that the lady has to be all down with the housey stuff. (Kidding!) But really, if it's the former, whaddaya gonna do? If it's the latter, well, you should say, "Hey! Do you like any of this? You're going to have to live here and I'd hate to be doing stuff that was going to make you unhappy."
He just recently told me that she seems to be unenthused, at best, about the direction the project has taken.
I think this means he knows he's made a mistake but isn't sure how or where and needs you to read his mind and hers to resolve their subterranean conflict. Difficult, but perhaps a temperature-taking in the guise of a "progress report/milestone update" would serve. If all else fails, when next you speak to him fake a lightbulb moment w/r/t the idea of speaking to the wife about something to do with the children's space(s) in the house, in the near term (new baby) and less-near (toddler, small child stages).
Get as much up-front as possible.
I heard it can hurt more if you do that.
Somebody has been kissing somebody.
Sort of what Flip said, although I don't think you necessarily even need to fake anything. A straight up "I know she hasn't been that involved in the project before, but I want to pick your wife's brain to make sure I'm not building the two of you something you'll be unhappy in", and then schedule a lunch or something with her without him.
You may be concerned without a good reason: if you were doing something for Buck and me I would be disengaged and vaguely disapproving throughout, because I'm both bad at visualizing what something different would be like and I hate change. So if we're rearranging stuff, I leave it mostly up to Buck and then I'm usually happy with the results. But if that's the dynamic, you should be able to figure it out if you have some time with her.
All I know about her unenthusiasm is that it regards the exterior, which will be unusual. I don't believe that she has any issues with the living spaces.
11: Ooooh. John Adams, you naughty man.
As someone with an architecture background I am just re-delurking to say: Get paid! The wife's disinterest is a danger to the project. This means you might have to solve it, but first you must make sure you get paid as much as possible as you go forward. Oh, the pretty projects I have seen that were never built or paid for.
1 is not a possibility. Part of the reason he's taken so much charge is that, apparently, he's got carte blanche financially on this project. I don't know the relationship dynamic behind that, but it's been completely clear from Day One.
Also, this house is bought, and they can't really live in it as is.
Oh, the pretty projects I have seen that were never built or paid for.
Cry me an exquisite river through His Grace's elegantly terraced grounds, sir!
I agree there's obvious value in trying to figure out something that will make both of them happy, but I'm confused about what the suggested takeaway would be, even if you got the worst possible answer from the wife. She says, "Yes, if Im' being honest I hate all of it, but it's [husband's] project and this is his house and his money, so I don't really have a say." Okay, so you... withdraw from the project? Tell the husband he's an asshole? Sleep with the wife? What?
Okay, so you... withdraw from the project? Tell the husband he's an asshole? Sleep with the wife?
Sure, but not in that order!
the direction the project has taken
This is what puzzles me - it could mean anything from: "I don't like cypress - use redwood" to "I don't want our lives to be turned upside down for a year." Also, with three kids and one of them just arrived, I can believe that the couple is stressed and they're showing it in different ways. A lunch with her seems like a good idea.
She says, "Yes, if Im' being honest I hate all of it, but it's [husband's] project and this is his house and his money, so I don't really have a say." Okay, so you... withdraw from the project? Tell the husband he's an asshole? Sleep with the wife? What?
Make sure she repeats that in front of him, after you get paid, then shelve the plans while they fight it out.
Stepping back at the concerns about the relationship: I find I'm not totally evenhanded about being judgmental about other people's relationships where they look unequal. Stuff that looks unequal in a traditional/patriarchal direction, I worry that it wasn't intentionally chosen, and that someone's getting pushed around. Stuff that looks non-traditionally unequal, I don't worry about so much so long as everyone appears to be happy -- a couple that's unequal in their own peculiar way, I figure that's what they individually decided works for them. I don't think I'm wrong to worry asymmetrically like this (to the extent that worrying about anyone else's relationship is my business at all) but of course it's the sort of thing where you can go overboard very easily: the important thing, either way, is if everyone is actually happy in their role.
It sort of sounds like that's what you're worrying about: that she's getting run over because he's in charge, and her opinion about the house they're going to be living in doesn't matter. I don't really know what to tell you about this, as you say you're not their rabbi, other than that people in unhappy marriages are probably less likely to pay their architects. But that doesn't tell you what tactics to use.
I just got a big, fat check Tuesday. Not worried (much) about getting paid.
I should clarify the disengaged vs. unenthused dynamic: She's been only marginally engaged from the beginning, having attended only one meeting, although that was a very important one in which the major schematic decisions (room layout, home features) were made. It was only Friday that I learned that she was unenthused, and this was the conversation:
J: So my daughter walked into my office and saw the elevations, and she said, "Wow! That's beautiful. Will someone really get to live in that?"
C: Huh. My wife saw the elevation drawings and just walked away without a word.
So, I've always been less than thrilled with her lack of participation (probably underlying reverse sexism), but this exchange is what inspired me to ATM.
Sleep with the wife?
Wait, is this an option? Because she's really hott.
Also, this house is bought, and they can't really live in it as is.
Oh dear. The husband isn't an auto mechanic living in a town near Cresson, is he?
Is "Your wife has reservations about this project, so I'm going to need more of the payment upfront" a realistic conversation, or one that's likely to work?
My wife saw the elevation drawings and just walked away without a word.
Worst case: She hates it and him and, if you don't watch your step, you.
Base case: She is exhausted and doesn't really care.
Best case: She is exhausted.
Maybe he wants you to redo it and doesn't want to say that he wants you to redo it so he's projecting on to his wife so you won't yell at him.
25: Yeah, I think that conversation is enough for you to tell him that it sounds as if she has input, and you'd like to schedule a meeting to see what she's thinking that could improve/change the plans.
In 24 LB, as usual, gets it exactly right. Or at least echoes my precise feelings, and has no solution, which is where I started. Great!
I think you have to go back to him, and ask if he thinks the silence actually means displeasure. Or just that she doesn't care about elevation drawings.
I assume that it is substantially easier to design a house for a happy family than an unhappy one, but I admit I may be wrong.
27: No
28: Oh hells no.
30: No, he's pretty enthused.
34: All happy families live in trailer houses.
yer pwnd raster @7
Let Ambition Rule!
What you think, could a bankruptcy, a nasty public divorce, and then a sale of this wonderful creation all be good publicity?
There are lots of reasons the wife could be uninvolved, 16 makes it look like this is an investment project more than a comfy home thing, and she doesn't want to take responsibility. "Coulda been 5 million more if you hadn't gone Georgian..." Whatever.
I am definitely bet neither one is planning on retiring in the place. On the market quick. Perhaps the divorce is already percolating?
I'm thinking that maybe 33, shading into 31, might be the way to go.
But I'm pretty sure the response will be that it's his deal, and I shouldn't worry about it.
36: You designed Tolstoy's house too?
That bust over the bed is a weird touch. I love what you did with the library though.
Also, we're within 2 weeks of going to bid, so there's a lot of momentum built up. And he wanted to go to bid in the fall, and he's paying mortgages on 2 expensive houses, so he's VERY eager to go. A step back and rethink is simply not in the cards.
My wife saw the elevation drawings and just walked away without a word.
Well, this is better at least than "my wife saw the elevation drawings and said it looked like an outdoor latrine designed by Zaha Hadid in a moment of more than ordinary incompetence". She didn't say she didn't like it, after all. The problem may be more between husband and wife than between wife and elevation drawings. Or maybe she was just tired that day, or annoyed for some other reason, or had something on her mind.
Meeting with the wife. Sleep with her or not, as you and she see fit, but you've got to hear what she thinks of it. If it's straight up "I hate it, there's nothing practical I want to change, I just hate the whole thing" or if she refuses to say anything useful, throw your hands up and go ahead without her input. But if there's something she wants or would prefer that can be done, you should hear what it is.
You're a restaurant guy: this sounds like a nice long restaurant lunch with a bottle of wine. The idea is to get her talking.
But I'm pretty sure the response will be that it's his deal, and I shouldn't worry about it.
"We'll definitely keep it basically intact. But I'll have a better sense of the overall project if I'm tuned in to everyone who will be using it."
45 crossed with 43. If it's really too late to change anything, there's nothing to do except go ahead, really. No point in getting her input if you can't do anything with it.
I really don't see the advantage in inserting yourself into their family dynamic. Since nothing has been said directly, either there is no real problem or their decision making (at least on this issue) is pathological and you'd be well advised to not get in the crossfire.
I just assume that most major architectural projects involve a fair amount of marital dissatisfaction and adultery, but it may be that Tom Stoppard and Peter Greenaway have been lying to me.
Hey, I understand these things. I am having a hell of a time getting the pardner to sit down and watch Satantango with me. I don't think a stranger coming around and telling her how great it is would be really be all that productive.
To be fair, I am all resistant on Rubber, about the psychokinetic mass-murdering auto tire.
45 -- I don't think he's got license to initiate a meeting with the wife -- that is, itself, an intrusion into the relationship. Gotta go through the husband, imo.
(I would think very little of a professional who approached me, unbidden, on a project my wife was running.)
But I'm pretty sure the response will be that it's his deal, and I shouldn't worry about it.
Well, this was the point of my question in 18. What if you strongly suspected/had good reason to believe that this answer was given because it was "his" deal, in his mind, and that his wife was unhappy about it and he doesn't care. What exactly would you want to do with the information?
(Maybe this is the point of your ATM--you're not sure. I think, personally, I'd think "what a shitty situation, but basically none of my business", and I'd just go forward with the project in consulation with the husband. I don't think you're actually complicit in the dynamics of their relationship, which are whatever they are, by participating in that capacity. But maybe I'm just a bad person.)
52: Oh, yeah, I didn't mean behind the husband's back or anything. But (if there is anything useful that could be done with her input at this stage) I would be fairly firm about wanting a meeting of that sort.
Maybe his wife would be happier with something as simple as renaming things. For example, "Servant's Suite" instead of "Nanny/Mistress/Second Wife Room."
"Indoor swimming pool" instead of "Underground sex grotto".
And, to go along with Urple, if the answer, after you firmly request a meeting with the wife is "She's not making any of the decisions on this, you don't need her input," I'd think the husband was a dick but I'd go ahead with it.
The idea of the meeting is that she's half of your client: you're building a house for the family, not for the husband alone, and you've gotten the impression that she's unhappy. If she's allowed to have input, but she hasn't given it because she has been/feels she has been informally shut out of the process, it makes sense to be proactive about trying to get that input.
I haven't read the whole thread yet but it seems like the answer is straightforwardly "this is not your rôle" and you know this, right?
Smearcase is probably right, but really boring.
54 -- Replace 'fairly firm' with 'completely deferential' and we're in agreement.
Boring for this thread. Not in general.
Whatever re lunch etc. Just don't be Stanford White to her Evelyn Nesbit.
I don't think he's got license to initiate a meeting with the wife
Of course not, but if he thinks the wife already suspects that the husband is cheating, and she is currently pregnant, she may be vulnerable to a pass. So JROTH may have an opening. Is the wife hott?
53.2 is the answer I wanted to hear.
Well, that and sleeping with her.
Dear Mineshaft-
I have a client with a really hott wife, but I'm not sure how to make the first move.
Also, she just gave birth. What's a respectable amount of time to wait?
It's disturbing that I read the signature to 65 as Fontana Labs Wright.
You should be sure to get paid for the whole project before you begin having sex with the wife.
If she's allowed to have input, but she hasn't given it because she has been/feels she has been informally shut out of the process, it makes sense to be proactive about trying to get that input.
Right.
"Hey, I wanted to go all shoen-style, with paper walls and natural woods, but husband just wouldn't listen to me."
Then what?
"Shuttlecock."
65: For the pass, as soon as the husband leaves the room. For the act, two days after she gives birth. Out of respect.
Question: is it really too late to make much use of any input she has? Because if it is, then just stop worrying about it.
Moby, no, totally. It's like I'd never read the blog. I took a day off today because February and seem to want everyone to share in the blah.
J: So my daughter walked into my office and saw the elevations, and she said, "Wow! That's beautiful. Will someone really get to live in that?"
Awww . . .
C: Huh. My wife saw the elevation drawings and just walked away without a word.
At first reading I had the same reaction you did ("that doesn't sound good.") But at a second reading I wonder if the husband is just grousing a little bit because it's a project that he's excited about and he hoped his wife would get interested in it at some point and she hasn't.
Perhaps the husband isn't frustrated because the wife objects, perhaps he's annoyed because he's put a lot of work into this and she's not offering any positive feedback (which could be understandable giving the pregnancy and birth part of the story).
It's worth repeating that there are any number of explanations for the wife's reaction. It's entirely possible she's tired of her husband spending so much on real estate, and any mention of building plans would elicit that response (in this scenario, the husband mentioning it to you makes more sense).
Pwned and explained better by NickS.
perhaps he's annoyed because he's put a lot of work into this and she's not offering any positive feedback
Positive feedback to things that your spouse cares about is probably the best way to keep a marriage from ending, as nature no doubt intended, in murder or divorce.
The elevations are still changing so no, not too late for at least some input.
OTOH, I'm not sure what sort of input she could productively provide about them. He's very firm about the material palette. We've been fiddling with the exterior for close to 4 months; a rethink isn't an option. So, unless she has some tweaks in mind, not much of what she says will be incorporated.
I should add: he's clearly very interested and engaged in design. I have no idea if she has any interest at all.
73.last actually reflects his further reaction: he was pissed at her for not saying anything, but pissed in an affronted sense.
Re: Elevations. Have you seen the wife? Does she have legs. And, is she hott?
That's right on the line, then: maybe you could use some input, probably not significantly.
In your shoes, I'd still want to draw her out about her thoughts on the project/do what I could to sell it to her. But I don't think you'd be doing anything wrong if you didn't.
Sorry for telling you how to do your job. But . . . hott?
We've been fiddling with the exterior for close to 4 months
I mean no offence to your profession or people who are deeply concerned about such things, but after about two weeks, I'd be over my rat's-ass-giving limit also.
Read the thread, Tripp. Comment 26.
84: Sorry. Really hott eh? Do you have a pic?
I disagree with LB -- do not push for a meeting with the wife. As everyone is pointing out, there are numerous possible explanations for this. It sounds like the husband is your real patron / meal ticket here. The couple's internal negotiations on the husband's architectural patronage are not really your business, unless you really think there is a serious possibility that the wife is going to queer things up at the last minute. Even in that case, I would think you should be going through the husband -- 'are you sure the wife is OK with it and there won't be a last minute veto?'. The internal dynamics of their relationship are up to them. It's actually a little patronizing to assume that the wife needs your assistance to speak up to her husband.
If he's annoyed with her for not caring or getting involved, pressing the issue makes even less sense. 58 is wise.
I'm not sure where you're going with this, Tripp.
Being serious, I like what PGD said in 86.
The couple's internal negotiations on the husband's architectural patronage are not really your business, unless you really think there is a serious possibility that the wife is going to queer things up at the last minute.
It depends on who the client really is. If the client really is the husband only, and the only thing that matters to the success of the job (not talking just about getting paid, but something more like professional pride in have done work that serves the client's needs well) is whether he's happy with it, then there's no need for anyone else's input.
If the client is the family as a whole, and the husband is speaking on behalf of both of them, but the success of the job (in the professional pride sense I mentioned above) depends on her happiness with it as well as his, then when you become aware (as you have) that the spokesperson for the client may not be doing a good job of fully representing the client's needs and wishes, it makes sense to do what you can to open broader lines of communication. In this specific case, it sounds like the question's mostly moot. But if it weren't, and if (and this is a real question: I can imagine circumstances where it wouldn't be true) your job is to build something that the family as a whole will be happy with, I'd want to talk to the wife.
It's actually a little patronizing to assume that the wife needs your assistance to speak up to her husband.
Please. I have a hard time taking seriously any claim that it's ever problematically patronizing to try to find out someone's opinions on an issue that's going to affect them.
90: It sounds like it's been made very clear from the beginning that the client is the husband.
Yeah, I took it for granted at the outset that it would be a joint effort on their part, but after that initial meeting, that ended. I've seen her once or twice since September.
FWIW, he was a preëxisting client for a commercial property he owns.
I'm thinking "uninterested" isn't at all on the same scale as "unhappy". Clearing that ambiguity up first would be a good idea.
Yeah, I took it for granted at the outset that it would be a joint effort on their part, but after that initial meeting, that ended.
That sounds at least unclear to me.
Really, it mostly seems moot for this job, now. But if it weren't moot, I'd be thinking about it by resolving in my own mind who I was working for: the husband alone, or the couple with the husband as primary spokesperson. If the former, no one else's opinion is an issue, wife, mailman, or the family dentist, except insofar as the husband thinks it is. If the latter, and I became aware that the client had thoughts or needs that weren't getting through to me through the spokesperson, I'd get proactive about opening broader channels of communication.
BTW, the direction we've taken the house (an existing, totally uninteresting 1953 Colonial) is not unlike this. We don't have the budget (or the excuse of a fire) to do such a completely Modern thing, and there's less glass, but it's a very similar vocabulary.
Sounds like JRoth needs to ask himself: what would Batman do?
Or, you know, not.
94: He was always pretty explicit that he was the client, and not his wife. That always made me uncomfortable, but the silent reaction to the elevations was what really worried me.
He was always pretty explicit that he was the client, and not his wife.
Then that's your answer. I kind of agree with your concern that their marriage is screwy, but that is not your business. If he alone is the client, and the client's happy, that's your job.
I think you should bring up the comment with him, but not insist he say anything about it. If there's something he wants to tell you that'll give him a chance. So just something low-key like "last time you told me that story about your wife not liking the drawings, did you being that up with me because there's something you wanted changed? Or is. Everything ok?"
Let ambition rule. This is a career maker. California? No-fault and community, they'll be fine. Fuck 'em all. Get as much up-front as possible. Keep control.
Now Bob's architecture blog is something I'd subscribe to.
95: Beautiful. If/when you complete the work, would you supply a photo? With the family standing in front?
100:I already got a name:"Roark's Drift"
Let that mess with the minds.
How is a juxtaposition of two common references going to mess with minds? Does a brief chuckle count as "messing with a mind"?
Seems to me from JRoth's account that client couple probably have issues of which the house is not the greatest. That doesn't mean that they won't make it about the house, because it's big and immediate, but there's not a lot JRoth can do about that.
Professionally, I don't see he has any choice but to carry on. If he thinks Mr is actively mistreating Mrs he should notify an appropriate agency. If they're just fighting he should keep out of it. He couldn't justifiably can the project because he learned that Mr was a Santorum supporter, or drank too much, or wore a tartan tie. Remember what they say about other people's marriages.
Remember what they say about other people's marriages.
Irrelevant?
It occurs to me that if Mrs has a new baby her principal concern, understandably, would be the interior, and that last fall she hoped it would be nearly done by now. But Mr has spent 6 months faffing about with the elevations so that work hasn't started and she's pissed off about that.
She really doesn't give a shit about the exterior. She wants the rooms. Like now.
107 is probably right.
I meant to say this much earlier:
My best and wisest prof at school said the following about couples and architects: "Couples often divorce after big renovation projects, and people say that it's because of the stress of the project. But the truth is that the couple was in trouble before they ever hired an architect, and the project was an effort to fix the trouble. What architects need to say is, "You don't need an architect, you need a marriage counselor."
I believe that he noted that doing so was less remunerative.
I would not be surprised if architects don't have more success at saving marriages than marriage counselors. For one thing, they probably spend more time with the couple.
Their architect had on his wall his license qualifying him as a marriage and family therapist.
How does this architect not have a series on HGTV?
Please. I have a hard time taking seriously any claim that it's ever problematically patronizing to try to find out someone's opinions on an issue that's going to affect them.
Of course it's patronizing. Based on very limited information that I've gleaned from several incomplete and easily misinterpretable statements on your part, I'd love to meddle in your family dynamics. Can you arrange a meeting so we can do that?
And as you've already admitted, you'd be horribly offended if the gender roles were reversed.
112: It's the jump from "trying to find out what this woman thinks of the house she's going to be living in" to "meddling in [her] family dynamics" that I'm having trouble making.
113: ? I'd love to know what this is addressed to specifically, but no worries if you can't find it.
"Couples often divorce after big renovation projects, and people say that it's because of the stress of the project. But the truth is that the couple was in trouble before they ever hired an architect, and the project was an effort to fix the trouble.
We beat the odds!
So, you went from this:
Stuff that looks non-traditionally unequal, I don't worry about so much so long as everyone appears to be happy -- a couple that's unequal in their own peculiar way, I figure that's what they individually decided works for them. I don't think I'm wrong to worry asymmetrically like this (to the extent that worrying about anyone else's relationship is my business at all) but of course it's the sort of thing where you can go overboard very easily: the important thing, either way, is if everyone is actually happy in their role.
to the conclusion that if an architect who was communicating primarily with a wife on a project became aware that the husband was unhappy about it, and so affirmatively sought out additional input from the husband, that I'd be "horribly offended" by that?
Yeah, if that was your thinking, you misread/overinterpreted.
Couples often divorce after big renovation projects, and people say that it's because of the stress of the project.
It is true, however, that big renovation projects are stressful. That isn't the fault of the architect (nor, necessarily, anything the architect can fix), it's hard having your home torn up.
Sorry for that then. But does it not imply that you would much less interested in checking in if the gender roles were reversed?
119: Sure, 'cause that would be "non-traditional". Not implied, said directly.
118: Oh, sure, but it's a rare couple that has a healthy relationship pre-project but is tipped over into failed relationship by those stresses. I mean, life is stressful.
This is setting aside problematic projects (last forever, cost too much, legal disputes among parties, etc.). Those aren't rare, of course, but they're not the norm.
Actually, no. The reasoning in 90 applies whatever the genders -- if one of the spouses has interests or feelings that aren't being transmitted by the spouse who's the primary spokesperson, and the architect understands their role as making the couple, rather than just the spokesperson, happy, it makes sense for the architect to probe what's going on with the other spouse.
Where I get asymmetrical is if the relationship itself is my business at all (which, for the architect, it wouldn't be). And even there, I think I was pretty clear that if everyone's happy and in a role they chose, I'm fine with that -- I'm just more likely to be curious about whether everyone really is happy if the relationship looks both unequal and traditional.
121: If one wants to use the "stressful project" as a test to determine if one has a healthy relationship, I suggest hanging wallpaper together as a cheaper alternative to hiring an architect.
Not to take food out of Jroth's children's mouthes, but there you go.
Even if one's goal as an architect is "making the couple, rather than just the spokesperson, happy", you still have to balance the relative happiness of the two individuals. Even if your fears about the situation were true, are you really making the couple happier by intervening? Maybe you're making her happier and him less happy to the point where net happiness is less. Maybe you're making her happier and him more likely to retaliate at some point.
Bottom line is that you can never know what their dynamic truly is, so you just have to take what they say at face value.
Sounds complicated to me. It is getting so hard to lead the fabulous lives people seem to believe they are entitled to these days.
126: This seems really overwrought about the possibility of doing harm by trying to find out whether one of the people who's going to be living in a house will be happy with it. Anything's possible, and possibly asking for a meeting with the wife means that the husband's going to beat the shit out of her. But that's really not a worry I'd put a whole lot of weight on.
Options:
1. Push her for her reactions. To which she says "Im sleeping with someone else and am going to leave Husband." Result - I get paid. You do not.
2. Gentle probe of Husband about her unenthusiastic reaction. "Is there anything I can do to get her on board? What do you think?" (Republicans seem to be in favor of probes lately.)
3. Ignore dynamic and press on, earning as much of your fee as possible before the divorce lawyers start getting their shares.
If they tell you that one person's satisfaction with the project really matters and the other's basically doesn't, who are you to second guess them?
That having been said, 129.2 seems useful and harmless.
125: Yes. My parents tried that in the Fifties. That evening my father said "I have to be in Chicago tomorrow, this had better be finished when I get back". It was, and they lived happily ever after or for another thirty-something years, whichever is shorter.
Push her for her reactions. To which she says "Im sleeping with someone else and am going to leave Husband."
Something along the lines of "I would really like a ramp rather than a step up to the front door -- that's going to be brutal with a stroller" or "I'm worried there's not going to be enough light in our bedroom" isn't even a possibility?
I mean, again, it seems to be too late to get input from her. But the idea that actively trying to get it means damaging their marriage seems unfounded to me. (Having sex with her, admittedly, would probably be a problem.)
130: See 98. I'm way ahead of you.
128 and 133 were about the chance that looking for input would be harmful, rather than about JRoth's specific situation, where he does seem to be clear that the husband's told him that he's the client and no input from the wife is expected.
Legally, their cat is the owner and he is the primary tennant on the lease.
107 is so clearly true, and I also think the reported conversation is directly analogous to the stereotypical wedding scenario in which the bride cares about all the details and the groom is like "whatever, it's your bag, honey." I wouldn't have liked to do things that way, but would it make sense for a wedding planner to try to get a couple to change how they were dividing things up?
Have we considered the possibility that the wife has a huge crush on JRoth and has to force herself to avoid him and the topic so as not to demonstrate her love of him?
I think Tripp has been considering that at length.
As has been noted above, Frank Lloyd Wright would totally have slept with the wife.
Not that Wright should really be a role model for anyone, at least in his personal life.
If the lady just gave birth, maybe she's not having sex with anyone.
(I'm going with those saying not to get too, too involved.)
I think Tripp has been considering that at length.
No comment.
142: Racing a speedboat ahead of the Feds at age 70? The man is a freaking hero!
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Oh joy. The drug dealer next door, who hadn't been around in months, recently resurfaced, and now there are a dozen or more cops and some sort of other police around the house. Earlier, they had guns drawn.
Can I reference this in my assessment appeal?
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Also in later thread:
OT: Can anyone recommend, from personal experience or nearby observation of a not-driven-mad colleague, a project management application for Macs? I'd like something that can natively produce critical paths, Gantt charts, other stuff that looks like that without making me reach for a firearm the way that Microsoft Excel's jury-rigged versions do.
I used to use a program that I loved, but I think they haven't kept it up at all. Let me try to recall the name.
But, to be clear, I haven't used in at least 6 years, and I think actually almost 11.
151: And what program does he or she use?
In other news, I finally observed a PM doing something obviously useful. First time for everything!
If one wants to use the "stressful project" as a test to determine if one has a healthy relationship, I suggest hanging wallpaper together assisting in the deepwater recovery of a sunken US nuclear missile submarine using an experimental seabed drilling platform while under observation from mysterious alien creatures as a cheaper alternative to hiring an architect.
I have no insights into their relationship
This seems like the answer. If you thought you did have insights into their relationship, you'd probably be wrong. Knowing what's going on behind the scenes in somebody else's marriage is close to impossible even if both parties are actually trying to tell you about it (let me tell you what, boy did I go in circles recently, trying to counsel a friend). Which they aren't, in this case. Operate on information you have, not backstory you imagine.
That's settled. Let's move on to what it means that this house is "on an incredibly prestigious road" presumably somewhere near Pittsburgh.
It can only be Million Dollar Highway.
When I first saw the headline for this post, I thought it was going to be about a movement that is to Pepsi what the Surrendered Wife thing is to Coke.