Re: Here is a thing

1

Neat.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 11:44 AM
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Boston has this deal, perhaps similar, and this deal, not totally unrelated.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 11:50 AM
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Is it possible to find something neat and interesting and to applaud the boldness and initiative in putting it together, and to also suspect that the classes would be super annoying to attend and that the project is unlikely to succeed? I guess that's how I feel.

I also don't see how this differs too much from regular university extension courses. My wealthy NYC dilettante friend who doesn't need to work sometimes takes classes at the New School with other wealthy dilettantes who don't need to work; he did a class on the French Revolution with the Beastie Boys.

But maybe that's just the cynicism talking; more power to them for getting something together and doing it.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 11:50 AM
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he did a class on the French Revolution with the Beastie Boys.

Like, the Beastie Boys taught the class? Or were used to illustrate the French Revolution? Help me out here.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 11:56 AM
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No, they were students in the class.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 11:57 AM
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3: I was wondering the same a little about how it differs from extension courses. The FAQ points out it's much cheaper, except I think it's actually not that much cheaper than The New School, as far as I can tell.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 11:59 AM
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I think as far as I can tell in my opinion.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:00 PM
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Is it possible to find something neat and interesting and to applaud the boldness and initiative in putting it together, and to also suspect that the classes would be super annoying to attend and that the project is unlikely to succeed? I guess that's how I feel.

This is exactly how I feel, too.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:00 PM
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Maybe if they manage to expand their set of instructors beyond the small group of Columbia grad students who appear to have started the thing the class descriptions will start to sound less annoying.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:01 PM
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Ouch, teo. Some of those small group are friends of mine.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:01 PM
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When I clicked on the link, I was hoping it was going to be something like Freedom University in Georgia:

Every Sunday, in an unmarked building, in an undisclosed location in the college town of Athens, Georgia, a group of students quietly gather in secret. They are aspiring professors, diplomats and engineers who have been banned from Georgia's top five public universities.
But here, in this donated space, it is safe to study.
This place is called Freedom University. It has one classroom and four professors, scholars who've taught at the likes of Amherst, Harvard, Emory and Yale, who are teaching here, on their days off, without pay.
Their students are undocumented. They have nowhere else to go and no one else to teach them.

(Article link. Note that since the story was written, the Board of Regents has semi-modified the state's attempt to block undocumented students from attending college.)


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:02 PM
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I guess it's really unfair to imply that the Beastie Boys are dilettantes. They certainly don't need to do much work now, but they certainly earned their pay and the right to take humanities classes for fun in their free time.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:03 PM
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but they certainly earned their pay and the right to take humanities classes for fun in their free time

They fought for their right to study.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:04 PM
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I'd be interested in taking "Critical Theory and the Now: a Contemporary Introduction to the Frankfurt School" so I could at least pretend to speak the local patois of you lot. But not $295 interested.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:05 PM
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I would totally do something like this for [ random science I study ] after graduating. That'd be fun. I can think of just the bar, too!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:05 PM
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Some of those small group are friends of mine.

I'm sure they're wonderful people, and that at least some of their classes are interesting and not at all annoying. Still, I stand by my statement.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:06 PM
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Wait, I didn't read that carefully until I cut and pasted it. The now? "Critical theory of the Now: A LOLcat perspective on the Frankfurt Skoolz."


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:06 PM
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"Critical theory of the Now: A LOLcat perspective on the Frankfurt Skoolz."

See, now this sounds like an interesting class totally worth $295.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:09 PM
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18: I believe you mean "THIS IS RELEVANT TO MY INTERESTS."


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:14 PM
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Isnt' that supposed to read "Critical theory of the Meow: A LOLcat perspective on the Frankfurt Skoolz." ?



Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:15 PM
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I don't think they're helping themselves with the FAQ being written in Gawker-esque snarkspeak. The course offerings seem directed at a very self-serious type of person.

Also, how close to unique is this entity, the BISR?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:15 PM
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The following (for me, as you know I am deep into the "how does culture get funded" question) was by far the most interesting part of their FAQs:

#3 - Wow. That is truly staggering. I mean this local communities and intellectual conversations and what not sounds really terrific and all but why don't you guys just hop on that Higher Education gravy train?
Aww. A question about us? Thank you so much, you are so thoughtful. You might not believe it, but academic institutions are not always compensating their employees at what you would call - in any other industry - "fair rates." Only a tiny percentage ever become tenured professors, and the vast majority end up either simply quitting or becoming adjunct professors. What's an adjunct professor, you ask? Why, adjunct professors are the people who teach approximately 75% of all university and college classes nation-wide. They're just like regular professors, but instead of getting paid a living wage, they get paid less than a fry cook at McDonald's. How much less? Well for an average 3-credit course, an adjunct will get paid somewhere around $3000-$4000. With no benefits. To catch up with that fry cook, an adjunct professor would have to teach anywhere from 4-6 classes a year, still with no benefits. Two to three times more than the number of classes an average professor teaches. But wait a minute, that's completely crazy?! Did you just blurt that out? Why, I could just kiss you. That's right, it is completely crazy. Let's say you and 39 of your closest friends got together and took one of these courses just for your personal education and betterment. Let's be conservative and say you and your buddies paid $4000 for your course. Just that one class has produced $160,000 in revenue for the university. And, remember, we're talking a non-certificate bearing, post-baccalaureate style class here. So we can't just say its all going to the value of the degree or some other such nonsense - not that that's such a riveting argument in the first place. In any case, depending on the benevolence of the university, somewhere around 2% of that $160,000 in revenue is going to go to the worker who most directly contributed to making it. I mean, shave off some for facilities. Those guys are rad. Shave a lot off for them. And for support staff too. They really help out a lot. Immensely, in fact. But really... 2%? One of our faculty teaching here at the Brooklyn Institute can make nearly double that in half the time. Ok, so it's true: we're not going to be rolling in it either but we've got to start somewhere.

I am pretty skeptical that teaching on a fee-per-class basis (basically, compensating humanities professionals in the way that Yoga instructors get paid) is going to be sustainable in any significant manner, but why not give it a shot.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:16 PM
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That's the way they used to do it in Germany, you know.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:29 PM
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I believe you mean "THIS IS RELEVANT TO MY INTERESTS."

Fair enough. If I had already taken the class I would have known better.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:30 PM
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Sure, but that was under a very very different social and credentialing structure. It might well pay for a few people on a small scale in Brooklyn, though -- there are certainly crowds where a humanities class might be viewed as being as much fun as a Yoga class.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:34 PM
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25 to 23.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:35 PM
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LOLcats have a very different credentialing structure from ours.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:38 PM
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It's a good restaurant, though.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:39 PM
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14: Adult education is a wonderful thing. You meet a lot of interesting professors. You know, it's stimulating.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:40 PM
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LOLcats have credentialing structures, but not in ways we can understand.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:40 PM
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I don't think 29 is supposed to be an appeal to prurient interests.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:41 PM
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27: Indeed.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:41 PM
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29: They probably sit around on the floor mispronouncing allegorical and didacticism.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:42 PM
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25: Yoga is hard. Humanities has all kinds of sex and violence and the like. To read about.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:43 PM
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Oh my god, the text pasted in 22 is irretrievably annoying.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:50 PM
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34: A stupid riff on 'hard'? Somehow in combo with a Yoga "there is no try" joke? 34.2 -> 29 or 31? Just shut up and do my work? The choices they are many.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:55 PM
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Adult education is such junk. The professors are so phony.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 12:56 PM
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"phoney", Blandings.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 1:06 PM
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Someone told me at a Christmas/holiday party that they were going to be starting this. Glad to see it's happening.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 1:08 PM
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37, 38: Which is the one where they call or text you a lot?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 1:10 PM
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Adult education is theft.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 1:15 PM
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Ahhh, now I recognize 29 for what it is.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 1:23 PM
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21.2 The Melbourne School of Continental Philosophy is set up along similar lines, though it has quasi-official support from the school of philosophy at Melbourne Uni. Also, not sure which one seems douchier.


Posted by: Paul Keating | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 1:28 PM
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||

Hey, any of you linguist sorts and linguists-manques: I'm trying to remember the details of a paper I read in a discourse analysis class about place names in...perhaps Navajo; perhaps another Amerind language. It's been eight years and it's all very vague. It was about how place names, used without further context, have some sort of narrative meaning and...I can't remember anything else.

|>


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 1:29 PM
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This sort of institute seems like it has a better future than distance education, at least in terms of improving people's lives.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 1:32 PM
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I used to live less than a third of a mile from where they're holding the classes! I don't think I ever went into the restaurant/bar, though--it probably seemed too upscale for me.


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 1:46 PM
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44: Maybe an extract from this book? Or a paper by the same author?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 1:48 PM
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48

Teo, surely that must be it. Thanks.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 1:53 PM
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Ok, yeah, this must be it.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 1:59 PM
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The teo signal on that one was so intense it probably burned out fifty transformers between New York and Alaska.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 1:59 PM
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48: No problem; that book is by far the most famous example of that kind of study and it's been hugely influential, so it immediately occurred to me as what you were probably talking about even though I haven't read it myself.

(BTW, neither Navajo nor Western Apache is an "Amerind" language in the sense in which that term is generally used in linguistics, but the concept the term is generally used for is really dumb so I'm not too concerned with policing it.)


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 2:02 PM
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We all know Teo relishes his new location at the nexus of the Athabaskan language family, halfway between the land of the Yeniseians and the land of the Diné.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 2:08 PM
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52: I totally do. It's one of my favorite things about living here, actually.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 2:09 PM
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51.2: Heh. Would that be the concept to which the following sentence in Wikipedia applies?

Due to a large number of methodological flaws in the analysis he [Joseph Greenberg-DAS] published 27 years later in his book Language in the Americas, the relationships he proposed between these languages have been roundly rejected by the large majority of historical linguists.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12]
"Fuck everything we're doing twelve cited refutations."

Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 2:10 PM
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54: Yep. Greenberg's not the only one to use the concept, but he's the most notorious.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 2:14 PM
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However, it's the small Tsimshianic language family that's exciting people in the extreme metal underground. Too bad nobody can tell what they're singing anyway.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 2:16 PM
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Is it known which native american languages come from "relatively recent" incursions of people and which don't?


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 2:26 PM
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Is it known which native american languages come from "relatively recent" incursions of people and which don't?

Sort of. The ones Greenberg calls "Amerind" (i.e., most of them) definitely don't. His other two groups, Eskimo-Aleut and Na-Dene, diversified recently enough, and are different enough from the others, that it's possible they do reflect more recent entrances into the Americas, and people have often assumed that they do, but that's not the only possible interpretation.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 2:30 PM
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Teo will only explain what the other possible interpretations are if we first give him $295.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 2:31 PM
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nosflow understands my new business plan.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 2:32 PM
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Wikipedia suggests that there's some strong recent evidence for Na-Dene as a later incursion: specific languages in central siberia which are related, and the distribution and age of the Y-DNA Haplogroup C3b mutation.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 2:34 PM
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Wikipedia suggests that there's some strong recent evidence for Na-Dene as a later incursion: specific languages in central siberia which are related, and the distribution and age of the Y-DNA Haplogroup C3b mutation.

Right, it's certainly possible in that case, although the Dene-Yeniseian hypothesis isn't universally accepted. (It's a lot more widely accepted than Greenberg's ideas, though.) My understanding is that the hypothesis involves the Yeniseians moving west at some point after the separation from the (Na-)Dene, though, so their current location in Siberia isn't necessarily evidence for a more recent migration eastward across Bering Strait. I've been meaning to read the recent book on the hypothesis to get a better sense of it.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 2:38 PM
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That book sounds awfully boring. Why not read Across Atlantic Ice instead?


Posted by: Cryptic nec | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 2:40 PM
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63: I've been meaning to read their earlier papers on that proposal as well. The publication of the book seems to have stirred some renewed media attention to it, and it sounds like they've got some new evidence too. It's still very, very controversial, though.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 2:41 PM
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Under the flimsy rubric of "this is now a language thread" I just heard a flamboyantly dressed maybe 16-year-old girl walking down 14th Street say "I friend zoneded him! I totally friend zoneded him to his face!" First person singular, past-emphatic? I guess this verb didn't exist a few weeks ago anyway.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 3:35 PM
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First person singular, past-emphatic?

Sounds more like a causative based on the adjective rather than the noun. Definitely a really interesting construction.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 3:40 PM
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67

That's entering my idiolect, I tell you what.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 3:41 PM
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68

Am I the only one who has no idea what that phrase is supposed to mean?


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 3:42 PM
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"Put him in the friend zone (as opposed to the romantic zone)."


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 3:43 PM
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Ah.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 3:44 PM
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I don't think I could even pronounce 'zoneded' without stumbling on it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 3:45 PM
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I'll take that as a "yes" in response to 68.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 3:46 PM
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72 to 69. Maybe 71 means I'm not the only one.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 3:46 PM
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No, what it meant made perfect sense. But it seems really awkward to say.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 3:48 PM
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urple, the young woman told a potential paramour that his romantic intentions notwithstanding she prefers his company as a friend and nothing more. She told him this to him directly, looking him in the eye.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 3:50 PM
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That would have been funnier without the extra word. Still not terribly funny, but funnier. I typo zoneded it to its face.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 3:50 PM
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I don't think I could even pronounce 'zoneded' without stumbling on it.

Oh come on of course you could.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 4:18 PM
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I think it's funnier with the extra word, actually.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 4:20 PM
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Why should it me "zoneded" instead of "zoned?"


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 4:58 PM
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Why should it me "zoneded" instead of "zoned?"

That's what makes it so fascinating. "Zoned" would be much more typical of the way neologisms like this are formed in English, as a causative based on the noun "zone" with "-ed" as the past tense marker. My interpretation in 66 is that instead she's basing the causative on the adjective "zoned" and adding an additional "-ed" to make it past tense. The question of why she would do that remains open, and without more data it's hard to say.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 5:18 PM
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It's also possible that my interpretation is wrong and there's something different going on grammatically. Maybe it has an emphatic function, as Smearcase suggests.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 5:22 PM
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68: Am I the only one who has no idea what that phrase is supposed to mean?

I assumed it was something like defriending him on Facebook or whatever new Social media tool the kids are using today.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 5:31 PM
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without more data it's hard to say

Yeah, go track her down, would you, Smearcase?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 5:32 PM
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Tell her it's for science.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 5:34 PM
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"Friend zone" is one of those terms that almost certainly originated at a known moment in history.

(0:48 in this video)


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 5:35 PM
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"Friend zone" is one of those terms that almost certainly originated at a known moment in history.

(0:48 in this video)


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 5:35 PM
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The question of why she would do that remains open,

Because "I friends-zoned him!" sounds like "I calzone him!" You can barely hear the D. It sounds way better to say "I friends-zoneded him!"


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 5:47 PM
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87: Also a plausible explanation, and actually probably a better one than mine.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 5:49 PM
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Hey, through the magic of Wikipedia:

The term friend zone was popularized by a 1994 episode of the television sitcom Friends, where the character Ross, who was lovesick for Rachel, was labeled "mayor of the Friend Zone". The question of whether a man can ever "escape the friend zone and begin dating one of his female friends" was a prime ingredient in making the Ross and Rachel pairing interesting to watch; one writer described the two as a "geek dream couple".

Comedian Chris Rock performed a routine about women keeping platonic friends on 1996's Bring The Pain, where he talked about men being trapped in the friend zone.

But I feel like I heard the "friend zone" before the mid-1990s; it's such an obvious term. OTOH, I realized upon re-listening that Bizmarkie's "Just a Friend" is actually totally not about being stuck in the friend zone.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 5:50 PM
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I'm sympathetic to the rescue, scan, and distribute program proposed at the third link, and the physical books sales part seems to be a pretty well-understood path so that seems fine. But I wonder if they have done any planning about digital preservation. Once scanned and ready, how long will the books be available? If they take off, will they be able to maintain an ever growing catalog?


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:03 PM
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People say "zoned" all the time. "Zoned out" this area is "zoned for industrial uses" etc.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:05 PM
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People say "zoned" all the time. "Zoned out" this area is "zoned for industrial uses" etc.

True, but that's a semi-technical term with a very specific meaning. In a context where it isn't expected I can see it not necessarily being understood in an innovative usage. This might be yet another reason for using "zoneded" in addition to or instead of the phonetic explanation heebie gives.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:12 PM
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But I wonder if they have done any planning about digital preservation. Once scanned and ready, how long will the books be available? If they take off, will they be able to maintain an ever growing catalog?

Maybe they need to hire an archivist.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:12 PM
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Actually I think teo's analysis is kind of plausible and you can see that if you take the "zoned" in "zoned for industrial use" as being primitive (for present purposes) rather than based on the noun "zone". How does something get zoned? By being zoneded. Likewise: how does something get ready? By being readied. How does become red? By being reddened.

Of course then you would expect things like "you should friend-zoned him", which would be bizarre, so maybe it isn't very plausible.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:13 PM
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I zoned out during those discussions of technical jargon, man.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:14 PM
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I know! She wigummed the word "zoned".


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:16 PM
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Maybe they need to hire an archivist.

They-ci ain't no an archive.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:16 PM
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89.1: A quick search of Google books and groups finds nothing before that. The first instance on groups I can find is very early on Nov 4, 1994 and the author references watching "Friends" that evening.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:21 PM
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Under the flimsy rubric of "this is now an un-dating thread", I feel like changing my OKCupid profile to say "On a typical Friday night, you'll find me bitterly watching depressing French movies and occasionally irritating the cat." Not that I go on OKCupid much, but it would be funny.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:36 PM
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More data: one; two; three; four; many more on a google search for "zoneded".


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:36 PM
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Dating profile five:

I'm the guy who always gets "friend zoneded". I care about the feelings you have and the dreams you pursue. Sex to me is something that one does to physically express being in Love with someone. You'll never find me "trying to get laid" or cheating or lying. In fact, some of you come to a friend you have just like me when these jerks do cheat and lie to you. "guys are jerks. except you Blake." And yet I'm alone.

I feel you, bro.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:37 PM
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Yeah, I guess maybe Friends did innovate it.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:37 PM
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99: my answer to that question used to include "But on a saturday night with my suit buttoned tight and my suedes on, I'm getting my kicks watching arty French flicks with my shades on. 'Cause I'm hip." But it doesn't anymore.

Crazy story, huh?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:38 PM
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Language-loving pedants who shuddered while reading 102 should be aware that, apparently, "innovate" as a transitive verb meaning "To bring in (something new) the first time; to introduce as new" has been around since the 16th century and cannot therefore be condemned as a recent abomination.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:40 PM
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105

Of course then you would expect things like "you should friend-zoned him", which would be bizarre, so maybe it isn't very plausible.

Yeah, this is the problem with my analysis, and why I'm not super confident in it. (This is also the sort of data that would be required to test it.)


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:42 PM
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106

Straight renaissance, bro.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:43 PM
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107

Interesting though that it exists in written and not merely spoken form, though I have no idea how that tells regarding the phonetic explanation.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:48 PM
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108

Abominations can be ancient, too. Eldritch horrors from the deep, etc.


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:48 PM
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109

The concept must be older than Friends, right? Although the more common plot in romantic comedies seem to be friends who find out that they're attracted to each other through a series of attempts to go out with other people they think they're attracted to.

Also the plot of Secret Admirer is way more convoluted than I remembered.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:54 PM
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Interesting though that it exists in written and not merely spoken form, though I have no idea how that tells regarding the phonetic explanation.

Yeah, that is interesting. I'll have to think about what implications it might have.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:55 PM
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111

You want grammatical abominations? I got yer abominations right here:

A chief economist says the shock of $4-a-gallon fuel is waning and will not poorly affect the economy.

[From the Yahoo home page news ticker]


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:55 PM
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112

Also, the StarTribune had a headline the other day, on the front page, above the fold, that used "N-plants" to refer to nuclear power plants. Sigh. Standards are slipping.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:57 PM
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if you take the "zoned" in "zoned for industrial use" as being primitive (for present purposes) rather than based on the noun "zone". How does something get zoned? By being zoneded.

It just seems nutty to take "zoned" as being primitive. One suspects the young lady was babbling, that's all.

Oh dear, I do hope we will not all take to saying "zoneded"! This is consternating.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:59 PM
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I think the analogy here is to "you got served!" and its equivalent "you got friend-zoned!" Per this, "I friend-zoned'd him!" would be the equivalent of "I you-got-served'd him!" or, for short, "I served'd him!" which makes much more intuitive sense to me as a description of the act than "I served him!"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:02 PM
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109.1: the concept definitely predates friends (it was much discussed among my friends when we were in high school, for instance), but I wouldn't be surprised if the specific phrasing was a friendsism.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:03 PM
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116

Oh dear, I do hope we will not all take to saying "zoneded"!

I say! Whatever is the world coming to! *faints*

I find 114 the most plausible yet.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:14 PM
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117

Consider:

"Well, just put him in the friend zone."
"I did."
"Oh, so he's friend-zoned?"
"Yeah, I friend-zoneded him."

I could see a case for the final statement signaling an action -- the act of having put someone in the friend zone -- as opposed to describing that someone's status (as being in the friend zone).

Which is pretty much what Tweety says in 114.



Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:17 PM
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118

I'm back. Took forever to find her. Ok I didn't really.

I feel like because of the /nd/ in friend, the /nd/ in zoned feels too rhyme-y to satisfy the feeling of having added a past tense ending, so another is added. This is a rather vague explanation, courtesy of alcohol.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:24 PM
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119

I transportated him to the friend zone right to his face!


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:28 PM
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120

You totes did not! Seriously?!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:30 PM
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121

They zone you up, your mum and dad...


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:33 PM
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122

I zoned him friend! Right upon his face!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:34 PM
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Faceward, him I zoneded friendly, totality.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:35 PM
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124

Both 114/117 and 118 seem like plausible explanations as well. See, this is why we need more data.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:36 PM
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He was astounded when I friend zoneded him and then absconded with his face.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:37 PM
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126

117 is succinct and seems right to me.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:38 PM
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127

Hey, Sifu, today I finally started reading that McPhee book. It's pretty interesting.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:40 PM
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117 is succinct and seems right to me.

Well, it would seem right to the proposer of the substantially identical 114.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:42 PM
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118 is what I was trying to say in 87. Zoned doesn't sound past tense enough.


Posted by: heebie-heebie | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:46 PM
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But 101's I'm the guy who always gets "friend zoneded" is just weird. Maybe that's just a migration from the more understandable usage provided by Smearcase's flamboyant young lady.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:52 PM
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Reader, I friend-zoneded him.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:53 PM
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132

There is this one boy, I said to my friend,
He's awfully charming, cordial and sweet,
I'd never do ought that would him offend,
Nor would I engage in any deceit.

But if I could, for a new beau compete,
He is not the prize my heart would desire,
Nor in lacking him, am I incomplete.
So a romance, alas, will never transpire.

We'd met after school, just one day prior,
That difficult talk, no longer postponed,
I had to answer, when he did inquire:
Could I ask you out, or am I friend-zoned?

And at last then, to his face I did say:
I do like you, really, just not that way!


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 8:05 PM
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127: oh cool! Let me know what you think over all.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 8:09 PM
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I'd never do ought that would him offend,

"aught"


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 8:11 PM
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133: Will do. I've only just started, so I don't have any particularly well-formed thoughts yet, but I'll let you know what I think once I get to that point.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 8:13 PM
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"zoneded" reminds me of "zounds".


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 8:15 PM
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Coming into the Country?

The list of moose-heavy meals (on page 297) always tickles me for some reason. Maybe my wires got crossed with Monty Python.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 8:21 PM
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134: I knew that looked funny for some reason, but I kept skipping over it. Oh well.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 8:31 PM
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137: Yes.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 8:39 PM
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139. Then I'll just echo Tweety's cool.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 8:54 PM
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The only obvious sound parallel I can think of is "light-skinneded'" but no one I know uses that unironically and it's only an adjective. I feel like there are more, though.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 3:56 AM
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But if you caused your friend's skin to lighten, you probably wouldn't want to say "I light-skinned him!" So I think it works.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 5:18 AM
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My take on Tweety's take is that there's an implicit scare-quoting that you can do to any phrase (or more particularly a catch-phrase), turning it into a noun (naming the original phrase*) that you can then verb. So Tweety's

I you-got-served-ed him

is just

I "you-got-served"-ed him.

But therefore, more generally, whenever you have a verb at the end of the original phrase, the tense on that verb can give a weird effect when juxtaposed with the tense on the phrase you've quote-nouned and then verbed. And the weird effect isn't restricted to cases where the two tenses are the same. So if, I dunno, you broke up a partnership with someone for a project of some sort because they never managed to come through with any of the cash they talked about, then you'd have

I "money talks, bullshit walks"-ed him.

Which is weird-sounding even though you're not repeating "-ed".

Something something Pinker mumble "flied out" something.

* or an abbreviation of it, but let's leave that out for the sake of simplicity.


Posted by: One of Many | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 6:22 AM
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Something something Pinker mumble

Will you people speak up! I never thought not being able to hear people would become a problem on the internet.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 8:01 AM
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Where theNavajo Came From.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 11:26 AM
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I hear "light-skinneded" fairly often.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 12:13 PM
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So I'd just drifted off to sleep on my couch half an hour ago, and the doorbell rang: woman running for state senate. She was pleasant, earnest, and I'll probably vote for her in the primary. Anyway, I looked up to see who her opponent was, and who had filed for the other races. This guy wants to represent me in the state house. He's a Republican. A different kind of Republican.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 1:35 PM
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No really, click the link. It's his talk on a language he's invented Varkuzan: A Language Built Around The Personalities of Prime Numbers.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 1:46 PM
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147: That's about as unwatchable as it gets for me. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to be an orc about it, but I just can't grok that kind of deep nerdery.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 2:25 PM
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On but not in? Whatever.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 2:29 PM
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Speaking of conlangers, my mom recently sent me an article in the Albuquerque Journal about the guy who did the language for "Game of Thrones" with the following note on a post-it:

Something one can do with a degree in linguistics... (LOL)

Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 3:39 PM
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To the original post, I took a really fun course on Walter Benjamin's Arcades Project at The Public School run out of a gallery in Chinatown in L.A. I also signed up for courses on Logic music programming and graphic design, but wasn't able to make it for the classes.

Apparently there are outposts in Berlin, NYC, Helsinki, Durham, Brussels, and San Juan.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 3:43 PM
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I (briefly, mistakenly) thought the OP was about the Brooklyn Brainery.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 3:50 PM
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46: I used to live less than a third of a mile from where they're holding the classes

Hmm, just looked it up and it is closer than that by about half to my brother and sister-in-laws' place. I mention that as they were who I had blown off earlier on the day of the first meet-up I went to in NY, only to run into them while walking down Atlantic Ave. on my way to the Pacific Standard place. Recovering from the stress of that meeting subsequently caused me to drink too much, talk too loud and spill someone's beer on myself.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 4:11 PM
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I'll take 149 as a no on whether Natilo can be enticed to Republicanism 2.0.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 4:19 PM
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Speaking of Tweety rec'd books, I put the Kahneman on reserve at the library. Did not realize it was such a "thing", they have dozens of copies in the countywide system, but I'm far down the line to get my crack at it.

No such problem with the Russell Hoban Omnibus which I found per nosflow's mention of The Lion of Boaz-Jachin and Jachin-Boaz. Four of his novels and a number of stories. In the system since 2000, but from its condition I think I'm the first to have opened it in anger.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 4:23 PM
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"the phrase you've quote-nouned and then verbed." s/b "the phrase you've produced as a result of quoting and then verbing."

(Alternatively, "the phrase you've quote-nouned and then verbed up" in the Nosflovian sense of "up".)


Posted by: One of Many | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 5:58 PM
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146: I hear "light-skinneded" fairly often.

What on earth?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 6:20 PM
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the Nosflovian sense of "up"

hooray!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 6:22 PM
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156: if it is the new Kahneman, and you're familiar with his work then you should skip to the final ~1/3. the rest is just recap.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 6:25 PM
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160: I don't think JP is familiar with his previous work in an enormous amount of detail, and anyhow it's nicely written recap.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 6:30 PM
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I went in the H/rv/rd Book Store not long ago (my sense of time is totally skewed, but I guess it was either one or three weeks ago) to pick up a couple things, and I thought "hey, I should get that new Kahneman book while I'm here," but they were completely sold out. I guess it's really popular?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 6:42 PM
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Is the new Kahneman book not in paperback yet? The ebook is kind of pricey and I'm not buying a hardcover book.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 6:48 PM
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152: That's pretty weird. I'm a graphic designer who is trying to learn Logic and read the Arcades Project. What about Processing? Are you planning to learn Processing? Because I'm worried about some kind of convergence.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 7:11 PM
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163: That's part of why I went the library route.

162: I think so, surprised me a bit. 53 copies in the libraries associated with the Pittsburgh Carnegie, all of them out and I'm #40 on the wait list (but not all of the copies are part of the request system).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 7:20 PM
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164: why are you learning Processing? For arduino?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 7:33 PM
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164: No. Phew!


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 7:48 PM
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166: Yes. But I'm starting from so far back...


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 7:55 PM
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155: Was that what he was trying to get at? I just thought he was some kind of junior-grade mall Tolkien with a stupid invented language who also happened to be a local politics crank. I shudder to think that those interests are intertwined somehow. Well, at least it gets him out of his mom's basement once in awhile, I guess that's something.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 9:17 PM
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http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/brooklyn-institute-2012-4/


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04- 2-12 10:32 AM
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