Doing pushups felt like it made a big difference for me. I'm generally slouchy, and back when I was doing that 100 Pushups nonsense (shut up, Urple) I all of sudden felt much more relaxed when sitting/standing up straight.
I had some physio for my back that involved a lot of upper back stretches, and rolling on a foam roller. I had the impression it worked a bit, but I still have a bit of upper back curvature/kyphosis and slouch. It's definitely caused by sitting all day at a desk.
Yes. I have naturally terrible posture that I've improved (still not great, but much improved). Lots and lots of core and upper body work needed. Running does nothing. Also sleeping on your back with no pillow helps. Also, focusing on it.
I'm told my posture improved by going to college, possibly because I was walking a lot more there.
I too hunch and have a torso that is disproportionately long for my height. Did not improve as an adult.
Yeah, I sleep with one very thin pillow, and I do try to stretch semi-regularly throughout the day. Which helps as a reminder, but doesn't completely fix it. Definitely more core strength work needed for me [back and shoulders probably more than abs].
The people I know with really good posture seem to come from UMC families who were Episcopalian. Have you considered converting?
I should try the 100 push-ups thing again. I've only failed at it twice.
I'm a little unclear on what 100 push ups means. I can do 100 push ups in a row without getting up from the floor pretty easily, but it's not exactly an unbroken set of speedy push ups -- I kind of collapse and recover a bit, like maybe for 30 seconds, between sets of 30 or so. Does that count? I think not.
Are you recovering on the ground?
Dumbbell workouts are just hell without proper form.
Also:walking very energetic big dogs on long leashes forces me to keep my back straight. I notice good posture on all the other dogwalkers..
11: then it isn't 100 in a row. You have to rest in the "up" position for it to be "in a row."
According to some rules I just made up. And the Army.
I too hunch and have a torso that is disproportionately long for my heightshort legs.
(I make this correction as a fellow member of the long-torso club.)
Long torso here as well: I'm 5'11" and have a 31" inseam. I am a terrible sloucher when sitting, but I have excellent standing posture.
Well that sucks. New rule: rest in up position. I will see what I can do.
I have a very short torso and high waist, which I feel like makes it difficult to get clothes to fit. But my posture is fine.
I think about posture ALL THE TIME and work at it very consciously and pay a lot of attention to it in other people. As a result, I have lots of advice, if you want it.
My sense is that correcting posture is a fairly big project. I try not to take on projects that I don't think I can do, so my first question is whether you have the mental space to think about it and the set-up for more strength and mobility drills.
14:Yes that is a better way of putting it.
6' 2" and a 30"-32" inch inseam depending on cut/brand.
And my hunch is more of a slouch, both sitting and standing.
Like most desk-bound idiots my posture is appalling. I haven't got the discipline or willpower to fix it, I think. Megan, Heebie, what tricks can I use to reconfigure my life to be effortlessly erect?
Is your posture better or worse than Buddy Rich? How about Animal?
Accordingly, I've been trying to add a few core exercises to the end of my run. But it's really a haphazard effort
Honestly, most of the time attempts by people to strengthen their core are pretty haphazard. Throwing some crunches in at the end of a run isn't going to do it. Doing something like four or five rounds of alternating sets of deadlifts and pushups twice a week will get you a lot more results.
6' 2" and a 30"-32" inch inseam depending on cut/brand.
How do you manage to avoid toppling over, being all top-heavy like that?
(5'10" and the same inseam as you.)
I am really serious about the dumbbells. I know Megan likes bars, but I think they are more dangerous and I can't work the imbalances.
Stand up, arms at side. Slowly lift one arm straight away from the side of the body. Feel your body tend to tilt away from vertical.
Then do it with thirty pounds in your hand. The tilting is gonna fucking hurt.
I'm about a year older than you and was a horrible sloucher until recently. I have successfully corrected my standing and walking posture, although sitting it remains bad. I've only recently become conscious of it when sitting, though, after a lower back injury.
For me it's just been a matter of staying aware and correcting it when I notice I slip. It was the same method I used to excise my Massachusetts accent.
Is the problem with posture an imbalance between the muscles in your back and front? Would crunches make the problem worse?
26: Huh. I never thought of myself as disproportionately leggy, but I'm 5'7" with a 32" inseam. I never thought about it, but is there a gendered proportion difference on average, where men have stubby little legs?
Well that sucks. New rule: rest in up position. I will see what I can do.
I bet you can train up to it without crazy effort or anything. We get paid extra if we pass a PT test once a year. On the one minute pushup part I can pretty reliably do 75-85 and I'm not doing a lot of practice.
26: How do you manage to avoid toppling over, being all top-heavy like that?
I don't know. It worked well for swimming. I do think I also tend to wear my pants a bit low.
Has anyone in the 'tariat successfully worked to improve their posture as an adult?
I have, and it was a bunch of work. It was one of the things that the trainer that I've mentioned before focuses on. I just did what he told me to and eventually my posture improved. I've definitely become more conscious of my posture, but I feel like the change was a result of doing exercises, not just of changing my attention.
I know that isn't helpful, but I'll think about whether there's any simple exercises I can recommend.
We get paid extra if we pass a PT test once a year.
This may be the most succinct example of why America's going to hell I've ever seen.
I feel like the change was a result of doing exercises, not just of changing my attention.
This seems to make sense (and in my case the change also coincided with a general commitment to an exercise regimen, although not a very structured one or one with professional guidance). The back muscles and whatever others affect posture probably atrophy to some degree by the time you're 30.
30: Men's inseams are a few inches shorter for extra ball room, so's not to feel like we're riding a barbed wire fence.
31: Has there been some rule change or court case? It used to be that you'd see cops with a healthy gut or whatever, but lately I've seen some that look too big to move well.
How do you manage to avoid toppling over, being all top-heavy like that?
Right now I'm 6' and a 32" inseam; in about two months I'll be 6'2" and the inseam won't have changed. Not notably top-heavy.
Things that have noticeably improved my posture:
1) Developing some basic core strength through weight training
2) Getting a yoga ball to sit on at work
3) Developing a habit of checking my posture periodically to see if I'm slouching, and correct it to a posture that projects health and confidence.
An important aspect of 3 is that you have to try not to use negative reinforcement in any way. If you punish yourself for noticing you're slouching, then you will train yourself not to notice.
Men's inseams are a few inches shorter for extra ball room, so's not to feel like we're riding a barbed wire fence.
Cue that LBJ tape.
36: Yes, there is that. I seem to recall Sifu being long-torsoed as well. For me it certainly did not help in trying to get a properly-fitted bike.
38: I hesitate to ask, but how's that going to work?
38: Right now I'm 6' ... in about two months I'll be 6'2"
Hmm. I know this is trap, but it has been too long of a week at work for me to figure out how.
I hesitate to ask, but how's that going to work?
I have discovered a truly remarkable technique for increasing my height, which is called "not getting a haircut".
N.B. this height-increasing technique must be employed in conjunction with suitable height-measuring techniques, but that's always the case.
Yes, bad posture here, too. I want a standing desk at work. (Some days it feels like every part of my body* has something going wrong.) I'm interested by the suggestion above about sleeping without a pillow, since that's the only one that doesn't require much effort. I wonder if it would do anything for problem #379: snoring/possible apnea.
*except for one, LAYDEEZ
42, 43: "Let's take a look at the player. He is actually 6'5", with the afro 6'9"."
So far as I can tell, there are two aspects to fixing posture.
1. attention
2. strength
3. flexibility.
Flexibility:
People's joints and connective tissue are used to being the way they've been all their life, and they can't achieve an upright posture. I see a lot of internally rotated shoulders (Michelle Obama's catch my eye.), which is part of hunching. For this, I'd say to start stretching them.
Basic:
Stand up, raise arms out to the side, crucifixion-style. Turn palms up, and notice how the shoulders slide back. Do that until the range of comfortable motion increases.
Wall angels:
Lean against wall, with a touch of a squat, the way you did back when you joined that frat and they were hazing you.
Try to get a flat back against the wall, pelvis tilted so that the lower back and the upper back are both touching the wall. Then, hold your arms up, comfortably bent, also flat on the wall. If you can't do that, rehearse it a bit. If you can do that, try to touch your hands above your head, keeping the backs of the wrists and elbows and lower and upper back all touching the wall all the time. Repeat a few times.
Doing those things two or three times a day should loosen you up so that it is possible for you to have a flat back, shoulders down and back, if you only had the strength to hold it.
Bob, I like dumbells too.
Annelid, I'd say to switch out your chair for a yoga ball. At the very least, take any armrests off your chair. That'll get you started.
Strength:
Seriously? The best way to do it is to find a gym that'll teach you the big lifts with good technique and then life heavy. Your posture, "core", and back muscles will all get strong as a byproduct while you enjoy learning a new difficult thing to do and start impressing yourself with big numbers. As you do your lifts, your trainer will say to "activate your lats" and "pinch a quarter" between your shoulder blades, and pretty soon that will carry over and you won't even have noticed that you now walk like a strong, springy god among men.
Seriously? Full body lifts (power or Olympic, Olympic probably work faster to transform your body) with a good coach.
In real life, if you were tempted by those, you'd probably already have sought them out.
Besides that? I dunno. Whatever works your lats, so that they can hold your back straight. Push-ups with good form. Swimming. Pull-ups, but if you can't hold your own body straight, I'm surprised you can pull it over a bar. Whatever. Like I've said, I personally don't have the discipline to do a consistent routine on my own, so I don't expect that other people will do that sort of thing.
Attention:
Benquo has the right idea. I say "shoulders back and down" to myself a fair amount. I've heard other good cues: "chest proud", "big chest". Those might work for you.
My honey wants you to know that he fixed his posture at age 40 by taking up Olympic lifting at my gym.
I can vouch that his shoulders are now down and relaxed, and he looks all springy and fluid and has new ripply muscles.
I say "Gotta get the sternum to the babies" a lot.
This is all complicated for me that I feel a little absurd walking around with my shoulders back and my head up -- I'm psychologically much more comfortable in my current shamble/slink.
You are a boss lady now, LB. You own the place.
I've heard other good cues: "chest proud", "big chest".
Spent a lot of time walking by construction sites?
I think more men use a "big chest" cue than women.
You know what else has had an effect on my posture? Running in barefoot shoes. I'm walking really differently now, and it feels less slouchy. (Or, to be accurate, I'm walking really differently some of the time. If I'm tired, I go back to hitting the ground heel-first, but otherwise I'm sort of padding along on the middle of my feet.)
I had a roommate in college who had exceptional posture. As I recall he said his parents made him practice walking on tiptoe with a book balanced on his head. It was incredibly evident sitting in bleachers at a sporting event--one ramrod straight back and 200 slouches.
I've heard this: Stand up. Rest your hands together in back of you, on your back or butt. (Is this Parade Rest?) That is your good posture position.
but otherwise I'm sort of padding along on the middle of my feet.
When I did this in high school, my mom called it "The V.A. Shuffle".
Yeah, I can walk for however long with a book on my head.
I think I could walk with a book on my head if my hair were just a bit sticky.
Maybe I have one of the old rubber swim caps around.
31: Has there been some rule change or court case?
Varies by dept. Some mandate you pass a yearly test, some don't. We're kind of in the middle. Not required, but if you get above a certain score it's an extra 100 bucks a month.
lately I've seen some that look too big to move well.
There's a lot of guys in the job whose physical condition is a disgrace and a damn danger to themselves and everyone else. People openly size you up all the time. Looking like you'd gas out quickly in a fight is an invitation to get killed with your own gun.
I must have told my bike-cop story, right? Ages ago, right after we moved into our current neighborhood with a big hilly park, we started seeing a couple of cops on bikes. One of them looked like a mean caricature of a cop -- redfaced fattish blond guy panting and struggling to get up hills on his bike, and snarling at people. Over the course of a year, he got very adept on the bike, lost a bunch of weight, and started smiling. I don't know that it's effective policing (I'd guess it is, but really don't know anything) but assigning cops to bike patrols does seem like a huge win for the cops.
76.last: I'm not talking about looking like he'd tire in a fight. You always used to see that. What I never recall seeing before is a guy who looks too big to climb stairs.
What I never recall seeing before is a guy who looks too big to climb stairs.
We've got a few of those and I'm amazed they're allowed to keep their job.
but assigning cops to bike patrols does seem like a huge win for the cops.
But it requires more cops, as you can "patrol" a larger area in a car than on a bike. Which is why you hardly ever see cops on bikes any more in Britain, when it used to be the norm. Follow the money...
On the other side, criminals often neglect their cardiovascular endurance. It's vital as a backup means of escape. One of my neighbors and his dog chased a would-be carjacker down, maintaining a safe distance and updating the police on his location, after someone else blocked the stolen car with their own.
If you're tempted by technological fixes, here's a device that, among other things, will constantly buzz or something to remind you if you're slouching. This won't help with the core strength, but might help with the attentiveness.
Follow the money...
I blame...the British auto industry?
I blame...the British auto industry?
The what? Don't understand...
Which is why you hardly ever see cops on bikes any more in Britain, when it used to be the norm.
Also because you can't expect a dog to pass up a policeman on a bicycle!
75: I wasn't sure which money we were supposed to follow, so I was half-heartedly suggesting a conspiracy by automakers who wanted to sell Scotland Yard more police cars and thus helped push out the bikes. But it occurs to me you were probably just saying bike cops cost more than car cops because you'd need more of the bike cops for controlling a given area.
I don't think that I can fix the mild scoliosis that I have. For that reason, I find that I wind up sitting cross-legged a lot--even though I had to get a fancy chair to prevent tendonitis. My doctor told me that things like Pilates and Yoga could help a bit.
77. Possible, but not British automakers. The only British owned automakers left in business AFAIK are Rolls Royce, Bristol, MG and Lotus; none of these make police cars, although I'm sure there are plenty of cops who wish they did.
My girls' school actually had a prize for the 8th grader with the best posture.
It is definitely not too late. I had bad posture for decades, especially for the many many hours I sat in front of a computer screen both at work and for fun, and developed some very serious neck problems as a result.
Fortunately I got it all sorted out before surgery was necessary, but a bunch of PT, along with a sustained, conscious effort to improve my posture, cut the pain down by about 75%, and stopped the progression of the problem.
So yeah, not only is it not too late, it will prevent problems down the road
I like Megan's advice. Some of the stretchy stuff I do, but my upper body flexibility still sucks. Ironic, since my lower body flexibility is excellent.
I don't think that I can fix the mild scoliosis that I have.
You've probably read more than me, but my dancer-friend grew about an inch by strengthening the muscles on the outside of her curve. I think she's C, not S, but with some sort of twist as well that leaves one hip forward. Anyway, she didn't fix it, but definitely improved it.
I have mild scoliosis, but it hasn't affected my posture that I've noticed. Having one leg slightly longer than the other has affected my posture, and that's what made the scoliosis.
79 -- don't forget McClaren. And Caterham. But your point still stands.
You can't "fix" scoliosis but you can make the supporting muscles a lot stronger and more flexible, which increases your livability down the road a lot.
Also, I think MG is a Chinese company now.
Why did I eat those tortillas? Fuck.
Oh, and Rolls Royce is BMW. Sorry British car industry.
Why did I eat those tortillas?
Because tortillas are delicious. For lunch I had a burrito made from one and some chips made from several.
Why did I eat those tortillas? Fuck.
Seitan whispering on your shoulder.
I've improved my posture with physical therapy and attentiveness. One simple trick that helps is to put your arms by your side, make a "thumbs-up" fist and rotate the thumbs so they point directly left and right. It pulls your shoulders back into the right position.
Oh, and Rolls Royce is BMW.
Is it? I thought it was only the profitable bit aerospace division, but I'm sure you're right.
I've done a good bit of work on my posture, and have improved my lordosis and increased the flexibility of my back (previously nearly all motion was hinging at one vertebra.) Mainly from Pilates, physiotherapy exercises and some of that foam roller work to release piriformis & glutes. I've dabbled a little in the Alexander technique which has reminded me of an issue with sticking up my chin/ shortening my neck. I have a suspicion it's related to shoulder tension.
I have a hunch I'm gonna be king!
I definitely need to work on my posture. I'm not sure if it is any better now that I'm not sitting all day, but I've noticed a distinct need to improve my core muscles (so I can carry things without injuring my back, which is plenty strong but needs more support).
(I too am seriously long-torso-ed.* I'm surprised there are so many of us on Unfogged.)
*Freakishly so - I'm taller than all but the very very tall (ie, more than 6'3") sitting down.
91 -- nah, the motor division is BMW, although it's also sort of VW, and there's some intellectual property trickery involved. NTTAWWT!!
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Reminder: There's extra time, in the form of a leap second, tomorrow (June 30), 23:59:60 UTC.
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One more vote for attention/focus, here.
Strength exercises work for a lot of people, but they never seemed to help me. I picked up olympic lifting in high school, and then climbed competitively for years after that, and I still walked around with terrible posture all the time. People always suggested back and core exercises, but I could already do a front lever, flag, etc., and my row was a lot stronger than my bench, which is really unusual for a lifter, so it was hard to see how more strength could help.
Dancing fixed that. Having a coach pick at you if you're not standing up perfectly straight gets you standing up straight pretty quickly. I think any form of dancing would do; even in Lindy, where dancers are hunched over, they're bent at the hips with their back straight.
Wear well-fitted, highly structured jackets. That cured my slouch.
Here are things I didn't know.
1. Russel Brand will have a late night talk show in the US, on FX, for some reason.
2. Matt Stoller, formerly of the liberal blogosphere, is his Ed McMahon.
If anyone gives Yglesias a TV show, I am quitting working for this industry.
100.1: Premiered last night, actually. I watched about 6 or 7 minutes of it and felt like I'd seen all I needed to. I did not realize that was Matt Stoller sitting to the side.
My posture definitely improved when I was in physical therapy for the lower back: the program was overall core muscle work, but I echo ttaM way up in 2 that posture improved in a *noticeable* way with upper back strengthening exercises. Those muscles between your shoulder blades on either side of your spine, whatever they're called. Actually the entire length of those muscles down the sides of the spine.
I did a lot of what I think of as back arching exercises: lie face-down on the floor with your forehead on the floor*, elbows bent with hands placed flat alongside each of your shoulders (this is basically like push-up position, but you're lying flat on the floor). Relax for a minute. Now gently clench your butt, and raise your head up and back, starting with forehead, then nose up, then chin up, and arch up and back, until you're looking at the ceiling, raised up and back from the waist. Use your hands to assist, but the goal is to be using them just to stabilize, and use those back muscles along the sides of the spine alone to lift. This isn't an arm exercise, but a back one. (There's a yoga posture that's more or less like this, forgetting what it's called -- eventually you can do it without using your hands/arms at all.)
* Might want to vacuum the floor first. When I haven't done so, I have to brush tiny bits of crud off my forehead afterwards.
99: I thought you meant the actual Mesoscale convective system which is draped across West Virginia right at this moment and potentially will impact Virginia if it does not fall apart going across the Appalachians. Started up near Chicago this afternoon and is annoyingly skirting just by us to the south barely providing any relief from the current dry spell.
(There's a yoga posture that's more or less like this, forgetting what it's called -- eventually you can do it without using your hands/arms at all.)
I think you're describing cobra pose.
I can't go into much detail now, as I'm on line at a dance club, but Stanley should look into Alexander technique. A lot of professional musicians (whose jobs require weird contorted postures) do it.
102.last: Hehe. Hate it when that happens.
103: boy did it ever.
Mesoscale convective system which is draped across West Virginia right at this moment and potentially will impact Virginia if it does not fall apart going across the Appalachians
I can confirm that it did not fall apart. Holy shit, that was some fucking wind. Trees down everywhere. Power out to something like 400,000 in NoVa.
Stanley should look into Alexander technique
Will do! Thanks (to you and all the others who've made suggestions).
Alexander is what I do whenever my back gets funky. Work your psoas muscles!
1) Lie on your back on a hard surface. Curl your legs up like you are a dying bug. Without using your leg muscles, just your back, cycle your feet around. (Does that make sense? Try it.) You should feel it as exercise very quickly in the small of your back.
2) Sit on a hard surface with your legs straight in front of you. Without using your leg muscles, scootch backward along the floor. Again, this should get the psoas muscles going.
3) Practice standing with feet not quite shoulder-width apart. Bend over from the waist completely--it should feel like you're hanging from your tailbone. Let your head drop fully. (Weirdly, this takes a LOT of practice.) To stand, imagine stacking each vertebra on top of the one below it, one at a time. Have a friend put a finger on each vertebra at a time, slowly, as you come up to straight.
4) While standing, try moving your weight around in little circles, leaning your whole body very slightly around and around. There should be a place you find, somewhere in the middle, where you feel about five pounds lighter. Examine how your posture is. Where is your head? Where is your neck? How do your shoulders feel? What angle is your butt at?
5) Unclench your jaw, all the time. When you're walking around, let your jaw be open a bit, all the time. Jaw tension really fucks your back for some crazy reason.
There is a lot more of course, but those are my go-to practices when I screw up my back or spend too much time hunching, tense, over student papers.
Flapper-era (instead-of-girdle) trick passed down from my grandmother, or possibly great-grandmother; tie dental floss around your true waist after breakfast, with a finger's ease. You will notice if you slouch. Also, walk up and down the stairs balancing books on your head and without using the handrail -- my final test was a bowl of water; my grandmother's final test was a bowl of milk (!! so that if she spilled it her good clothes were ruined and she couldn't go out after all).
Alexander and Pilates and AWB's list are more practical, and dancing is great feedback for doing it right. I believe Megan's advice will work, not that I do it myself.
Also, see if you can set up your computer to be comfy when not slouching. Top of the screen up high, fairly vertical (not facing up towards you facing down), and keyboard where your arms are when relaxed -- mine is often in my lap.
Yoga ball for sitting at your desk with separate set up for standing.