After all, they were advancing a very compelling argument.

And one which Lenny Bruce riffed on.

"Fuck you." Never understood that insult, because fucking someone is actually really pleasant. If we're trying to be mean, we should say "unfuck you!"

Are those two guys clowns? Because they sound funny.

I had a friend who, whenever someone was reduced to simply yelling "fuck you" at the end of a long and humorous argument, would feel almost smug, as though there was nothing more he could do but laugh at that person. I really liked that.

People in cars can't help but yell out windows. It happens all the time. The nice thing about it is that it happens so fast, it's more like almost getting hit with bird shit, but not quite, than it is getting yelled at.

Funnily, with the election coming up, I've been reminiscing (if that is the word) on presidential elections past, and was recently recalling election day 2004: a friend and I were driving back from the polling station and passed a group of bro-type young men standing on a corner with "Bush 2004" signs. They were shouting/chanting "Bush Bush Bush Bush ..."

Both I and my friend shouted out, as we drove by, "Fuck You!!!!"

Heh. I have never done that before, and was a bit astonished at myself (that particular friend brings out that kind of thing in me). I claim I had more provocation, though, than the fellows shouting at Stanley's car wash.

Hey, maybe Stanley's shouters think charity car washes are a liberal conspiracy.

5
The friend doesn't bring that out in you. It's the driving in the car. Happens to the best of us.

I assume you were standing on the corner in revealing swimwear. They were complaining about the objectification of men.

Actually, the local branch of the organization for which we were raising money (hint: they make habitats for huge manatees) expressly prohibits swimwear for car wash volunteers.

|| Hey,

Does anyone have advice about lung lobectomy? This is for a close relative of mine, may have lung cancer. Generally, how difficult is the surgery and recovery? She's getting the video-assisted minimally-invasive procedure, but it still looks serious.

Some stuff we're worried about: she's in her 60's, and has asthma, coughing fits and overall lousy lung function. If she coughs, will it cause problems during the recovery? Also, how much is her lung function going to be permanently reduced?

More background: She's never smoked, but CT scans show she has a lung nodule, and it is growing. During the surgery, they will remove the nodule, and get a pathology test to see if it's cancer; if it is, the doctor wants to remove the whole lobe.

|>

expressly prohibits swimwear for car wash volunteers.

Sometimes non-profits just suck at marketing.

9: I don't know a thing about it, but these seem like questions her doctor(s) should be able to answer. Have they not been able to?

10: Seriously. I was so ready to rock a banana hammock.

What was the charity, Stanley?

11: Her doctor said the coughing and asthma wouldn't be a problem, but he didn't give many details. Apparently he had a very reassuring manner, so she felt good after seeing him, and only started to worry a few days later. We're trying to get a second opinion from another doctor. But I'm also fishing for advice from the patient's side of things.

BTW, what she's worried about is that the coughing and asthma ARE going to be a problem, and that there just isn't a good solution to this. Which, fine, maybe that's just the way it is. But it's better to know the complete picture.

President: I'm neither a medical profession nor a patient, but I have ever so slightly more informed than average notions about this topic. Feel free to email me if you feel like it.

14, 15: I'd say a second opinion is great, but how about a second session of question and answer with the doctor, with someone in the meeting (you?) along with her. I realize that costs money, but so would a second opinion.

For the patient's side of things, if no one here has anything to report, is there a support group for, say, lung cancer survivors? They would presumably know everything.

OT: I know that the internet fight over whether it's immoral to vote for Obama (because of drone strikes and civil liberties violations in general) has become rather toxic, but I've been following various exchanges about it, including this response from Robert Wright to Conor Friedersdorf's original post.

I've sort of been waiting for Conor's reply, and I'm not seeing one. ?

In brief, the debate is over a consequentialist vs. Kantian approach to (moral) voting choices. Wright is a consequentialist; Friedersdorf is the Kantian. Each of them throws down a thought experiment. What seems to emerge (for me) is a combined view -- but that is not news, in moral philosophy. I still wish Friedersdorf would reply.

I'm not going to bother reading that whole thing, but I think we all pretty much take a consequentialist view towards elections. The Kantian view lines up with a consequentialist view almost always though, so it winds up being a boring topic of conversation, for most people. Some mind find it tricky though.

Slow day here? Or is the state of things nowadays?

It's Saturday afternoon. People are playing with their kids. I'm only looking in because I'm following a political scandal in Britain, and I'm not well enough to go out.

20: Most commenting here happens now during the normal working day/week. Those who are active when they're not at work are fewer.

Massachusetts plates? 413 for life! If by "life" one means "from age zero to 17."

I'm around, but dealing with children. We've been looking for a house to buy, which is cringe-inducing.

`Work' variably defined.

Does it mean anything to find poker chips epoxied to the sidewalk?

Clew: Run. GET OUT NOW!

I guess there also aren't as many posts or comments.

Text, didn't you hear me? Clew found the poker chip. GET OUT DUDE.

Just to be clear, I'm calling you stupid over and over again.

I am marked for doom. It is the Black Spot of our vulgar age. ALL WILL FEAR THE PASSING OF MY SHADOW ON THE GRASS.

I am waiting for Halford to rise to the bait in the OP. Too obvious, I guess.

ALL WILL FEAR THE PASSING OF MY SHADOW ON THE GRASS.

It smells pretty bad, but "fear" is a bit much.

Most commenting here happens now during the normal working day/week. Those who are active when they're not at work are fewer.

There are some of us, though! But yeah, weekends are pretty slow around here. Also slow: weeknights from about 8 to midnight Alaska time, which is not really that surprising I guess.

On this particular Saturday morning I was actually at the synagogue, but I would otherwise probably have been sleeping, so I'm not going to claim to not be part of the problem generally.

So if Halford won't rise to the OP, how about this?
My son (4 y.o.) just started (more or less) breakdancing at the prospect of bacon.

Generally when people try to bait someone they do it by saying something that person will object to rather than agree with.

16: Thanks, I will email you. (When I get a chance -- probably tomorrow.)

17: Yeah, we'll talk with the doctor some more. Unfortunately I can't be there, as she lives many hundreds of miles away. But I've been reading about lobectomies, and now have a much better understanding of what the doctor was saying. Doctor/patient is about the most asymmetric relationship possible.

Thanks for suggesting a support group. I don't know if she'll like it, as she's intensely private, but it might be informative for me.

36: Been to many concerts?

No, now that you mention it.

I was thinking in the context of blogs.

Who is text calling stupid over and over again? Why? I wish I understood this internet thing better.

When baiting for fish, it is best to use something they like. But, yeah internet usage can be either way. Here, I was waiting for a tirade of agreement.

As to the weekends around here. I have over three thousand unread items from this place in my reader. No time to post; I have to read.

I'm stuck in airports today, with brief interludes of being on planes. Denver doesn't have mandatory CNN. Houston does.

I was virtuously doing housework, and cooking moderately healthy meals, and petting the cat. Now I am off to a benefit for an organization some friends work with (whose mission I strongly support), and then to a friend's birthday party. There were a bunch of other things I could have gone to as well. Just trying to squeeze in as many events as we can before the snow hits, you know?

I'm feeling sorry for myself. I'm flying on the wife's United miles -- which might otherwise expire -- rather than my Delta miles. That means stopping in Denver and Houston, instead of Salt Lake on Minneapolis, both of which are home to people I like and could go see. It's the only thing that makes air travel bearable.

You're inviting accusations of privilege, Charley. Careful.

I am very priviled to have family/friends in Minneapolis and Salt Lake City, it is true.

18: Btocked so probably shouldn't be commenting, but not voting for Obama is not voting against a war with Iran which will result in the death of tens of thousands. Given that drone strikes will continue, torture will resume, all the negatives of Obama will be kept in place if not amplified, it seems to me that the morally pristine position of the "just don't vote" crowd is fucking reprehensible. The time to fight this battle is in the primaries. The lesser evil is actually less evil. The supposedly neutral position is raw moral cowardice.

Hi togolosh! I agree with you. I just don't know why other people with whom I normally agree are so stuck on this matter. I mean, I do, because they've explained themselves at length.

There's a reason this is an ongoing topic in moral philosophy.

I look at the depressing choice and think 'voice, choice, exit', meaning I should probably vote for the lesser or slower evil and then work harder to shift the evil course. So *tiring*.

My rental car has Mass plates. I kind of feel like I'm letting the side down if I drive politely. The Everglades seem to be full of Germans, so probably no one would notice if I was rude and pushy on the road.

Holy crap, the couple who just came up to the observation spot are speaking French. What are they doing here?

Damn invasive species.

Down from Canada? Dropped in from Martinique? You're not that insulated.

A terrorist assault on our vital frog reserves. Call DHS!

48,49: The supposedly neutral position is raw moral cowardice.

Saying I won't vote for Obama does elicit some fairly interesting responses. Fun? I do dodge any stray heroics thereby associated with the public stance, but also have difficulty understanding it (the confession, not the vote) as an act of cowardice.

Enlighten me, saintly moderates.

Enlighten me, saintly moderates.

You know the whole hard taco/soft taco split? It turns out if you leave hard tacos sitting long enough, they become soft tacos. So it's really all bullshit, bob.

If you leave hard tacos sit just long enough, are they still a bit crunchy but soft enough not to split in half along the bottom?

Post Election Deficit Deal

Raising the Medicare age to 67 would be disastrous. There will be no affordable health insurance for those in their 60's. The Affordable Care Act allows private insurance companies to charge premiums three times higher based on age. Under popular pressure, there were regulations placed into the health care reform bill to stop insurance companies from charging higher premiums based on pre-existing conditions. But the companies were allowed to charge three times the premium based on age.

Because of this allowed age discrimination, the Kaiser Foundation estimates that an individual of age 60 in 2014 with an annual income of $50,000 will pay a health insurance premium of over $10,000, or over 20% of income. That does not include out-of-pocket costs which can add up to an additional $6,000 annually. That brings the total to 32% of income--a bankrupting figure.

I ain't voting for that fucking shit. No more.

It's always good to vote against somebody based on someone's speculations about what they might want to do even though it doesn't fit at all with what they have done and it fits exactly with what the person they are running against has done.

Is everybody else humming "Working at the car wash, Going down, down, down" too?

I mean, I know the car wash song, but the other one is the one that keeps getting stuck in my head.

59:Don't read carefully or follow the link? All but first sentence of 58 is baked into the cake, so to speak, already part of the ACA. Which is a bankrupting impoverishing horror of a healthcare system. And not just for seniors, for kids loaded up with student loans, and families trying to pay education costs and underwater mortgages.

And the Democratic Platform had not one word about improving ACA.

How comforting it would be to be mad -- then everything would make sense.

62: I read the link. I even read the first link in the link. I found them insufficiently engaged with the world.

How comforting it would be to be mad -- then everything would make sense.

New mouseover? Or maybe t-shirt?

65: Did I make that up? It came to me a little while ago while reading Gogol's Diary of a Madman, but I couldn't swear it's original. It might be good for a mouseover.

The mad men I've known have mostly been differently confused.

But how terrible to be alone in feeling that it all makes sense!

We are all always alone.

Rich Puchalsky has a couple post about not voting and telling people about it. I mean, it's all about signalling within a group.

Voting, outside those few and limited geographic areas in which your vote may actually matter, is primarily social signaling. No one doubts that just sleeping through election day because you don't care is being apathetic. But the people who don't vote and say that they're not voting are signaling something else, that they believe that the system has failed.

People all over the area where I live are talking about politics right now. I always have to drop in something like "I'm an anarchist, and I'm not voting because I think that people shouldn't support the American state." This makes me a jerk, especially when I say it to my daughter's third grade teacher who is teaching civics. But although it has almost no effect at all, it still has more actual effect than my going quietly to the voting booth and pulling the lever for Obama would have. Of course, I do some forms of political activism other than just talking to people as well, although they really have little more effect than this kind of thing does.

And voting, and saying you are voting, is saying that the system is working well enough, to your standards and satisfaction.

"People want the reassurance of knowing that settled, middle-class people with young children, like me, are still dutifully going through the motions, and are not seriously saying that maybe it's time that we just stopped supporting the whole American political system."

66: Was it some literary reference smart people would recognize? I'm not so good with that stuff.

The 3:1 age rating rule was considered a policy victory by no less an authority than the AARP.

Why? Because the difference in actuarial cost is closer to 5.5:1. Old people will be cross-subsidized by young people. A tighter rating band risks driving the young and healthy out of the market, with baleful consequences for the risk pool (see for example Maine). The 3:1 rule was a reasonable middle ground.

I oppose raising the Medicare eligibility age and hope the Dems stand firm on it. It's bad policy for a lot of reasons, and doesn't do a hell of a lot for deficit reduction.

||
At HONK with Bave and the Exraordinary Rendition Band is, I shit you not for why would I shit you, playing the "tonight we are young" song. Hee.
|>

71: Not that I know of. I mean, I figure other people have expressed roughly the same thing.

73: ahahaha.

57: how about draping tortiilas over a dowel & deep-frying only the sides, leaving a natural flexible hinge?

Ombretacos.

Somebody walking down the street called me "home slice." Should I have hit him?

What I saw of HONK was pretty great. I was a little surprised by the fraction of music I heard that came from the Star Wars soundtrack, though. And a rendition of "Blister in the Sun" in between a couple things about unions and workers rising up was a little incongruous. But generally fun. Would have gone to more of it if not sick.

76 is genius.

Was 78 the Fresh Prince of Bel Air? Are you Carlton? Suddenly everything makes more, and less, sense.

I shit you not for why would I shit you

The situation is more complicated than you realize.

81: Was a white kid, probably not born when that show aired.

Yeah HONK was actually more fun than I was expecting, and I was expecting it to be fun. We really ended up loving it. I mean what's not to like really: leftist steampunk marching bands full of dorks and queers, hooray!

84: yup. Lay the funk on us, you giant, colorful nerds.

Well steampunk stuff is HIGHLY questionable, which is why I confine my endorsement to Mucca Pazza.

Mucca Pazza is really extremely fantastic.

84=me, who was not thinking about the fairly obvious fact that Bave's computer would have his name in the Name blank. Now I guess the cat is out of the bag that we hang out off-blog.

I mean or else I stole his computer.

Now I guess the cat is out of the bag that we hang out off-blog.

SHHHH! SOOBC!

85: They're especially giant when on stilts.

Soobsie!