How do the other two pledges go?
It's kind of amazing how incandescently angry that makes me. Maybe it's deflected emotion from my anxiety about Hurricane Sandy.
I don't remember every pledging allegiance to a state. Is that just a Texas thing too?
"Honor the Texas flag; I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible."
The Texas flag pledging is strange, but I guess because Texas. The Christian flag is absurd. A prayer at the start would make sense. A cross on the wall, that's traditional. But I never even heard of a Christian flag.
I had no idea there were state flag pledges.
"I salute the flag of Mississippi and the sovereign state for which it stands with pride in her history and achievements and with confidence in her future under the guidance of Almighty God."
The history of a state flag pledge has got to be kind of weird, given the origins of the American flag pledge.
Also: Kentucky, Michigan, Alabama, Louisiana, Ohio, Arkansas, South Dakota.
Maybe it is a holdover from the Lost Cause.
"I salute the flag of Pennsylvania and promise to pretend I have some vague idea of what it looks like. I will salute the sovereign state for which is stands as soon as they decide to keep the liquor stores open in areas where it the storm didn't hit."
I did this as a child! Every day!
Well, except we didn't pledge to the state flag, because my state just adopted an official pledge for the state flag in the year 2000. But all three flags were there, and we said pledges to two of them.
I'd be willing to be the school I attended has been making all the kids say three pledges every day since 2000.
Young Californians apparently used to sing a song:
California Pledge
I am a California Child, I love this golden state. Its mountains high its valleys wide its people good and great. I love the dear old pioneer that made us what we are and gave to us this golden state our Nations brightest star.
Michigan's is the only one that rhymes.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of Michigan,
And to the state for which it stands,
Two beautiful peninsulas united by a bridge of steel,
Where equal opportunity and justice to all is our ideal.
In school, I never said the pledge of allegiance because a flag is a false idol. Might as well worship a golden calf. (I was the Puritanical kind of Mormon.)
We pledged allegiance to the Florida Gators.
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That's a stupid rhyming pattern. Go Buckeyes.
16 to 13 except that 16.last is fine to 15 also.
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MY should really stop writing about basketball. *headdesk*
(There's a picture of a flag in the linked article, pretend it isn't egregiously off-topic. Also, for anybody wondering what's wrong with the linked article he's taken an story which has been widely covered in the last couple of days and, generally speaking, intelligently covered, and written something which is both superficial and condescending.).
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13: This Pledge brought to you by US Steel.
Which parishes are these that use that Christian flag? I'd expect parochial schools to salute the papal flag, if any.
I think each bishop has a flag. Or at least Pittsburgh does, but I've never seen anybody notice it.
8: Ohio
Hmm, did not know this. Apparently adopted in 2002 (100th anniversary of the flag). I will say that as a kid I was quite taken with the unique shape of the Ohio flag.
The history of a state flag pledge has got to be kind of weird, given the origins of the American flag pledge.
I guess they take the "indivisible" part out of the US flag pledge. And change it to "one or more nations".
I always thought it worked better with "invisible" anyway.
22 -- there's no way this is a Catholic school thing. Is that possible? It seems so non-Catholic -- to me it feels literally heretical -- so I assumed Heebie meant fundamentalist protestant private schools.
Pledging allegiance to an individual bishop or archbishop would actually be pretty awesome, especially if it was in lieu of the pledge of allegiance to the American flag.
The state flag pledge is so ridiculous. I sure hope Nia's school isn't doing that, and I'll ask.
I went through Catholic school all the way and we pledged to the US flag, though most teachers didn't mind if I sat down once I got to be old enough that I wanted to just sit. The girls from one elementary school had been taught a version of the pledge that ends "... and justice for all born and unborn" which used to make high-schooler me livid and I suppose still does, because how stupid is that to be used as anti-Roe v. Wade propaganda?
I think we stopped pledging to the flag in high school.
in middle school we celebrated flag day fervently. in high school we got jaded.
so I assumed Heebie meant fundamentalist protestant private schools.
I assume mostly, but all denominations of Christianity in Texas (and I think all over the south) have become very evangelicized, so otherwise mild denominations like Methodists and Lutherans (and Catholics) are going to vary wildly here, some being quite fundie.
(There's also the Christianification of Judaism, seen in things like the sky-rocketing number of Jews who believe in heaven, over the past 50 years or so.)
Does "parochial school" mean a specifically Catholic school? To me, it intuitively does, perhaps b/c its connected with "parish" (though of course mainline Protestant denominations also have parishes and parish schools).
I don't know any Jewish people who would agree that they've been Christianified.
33 is probably true and still consistent with 31.3.
13 sure doesn't scan in my idiolect, but it's so close. Justzall?
The Wikipedia entry seems to indicate that this is an American Protestant thing, which is in line with my experience. We didn't know about a pledge, though.
I assume that it will die away due to demographics, just like many other mainline traditions.
the unique shape of the Ohio flag.
Ohio: the Nepal of the United States? Discuss.
I assume that it will die away due to demographics, just like many other mainline traditions.
Please. Clear eyes full hearts can't lose.
19
... and written something which is both superficial and condescending.).
But is MY wrong?
In school, I never said the pledge of allegiance because a flag is a false idol. Might as well worship a golden calf. (I was the Puritanical kind of Mormon.)
I find the whole flag pledging concept both creepy and nonsensically metonymic, so I'm not exactly impartial, but that was my reaction too. And it's not like Christians are short of well-established symbols of their faith to honour/pray to. Even Protestants.
But is MY wrong?
Superficially, no, but there are a bunch of important caveats, relevant to the situation, which he omits.
That's been true on every issue MY has dealt with that I've known anything about, including this one. Sometimes he's just flat out wrong, as well, I guess.
Actually, this article pissed me off more. Is it even possible to make a more lazy, a priori case for voting for casino gaming? I don't know which way I'd vote if I lived in MD (probably against casinos, based on some experience with the industry and its effects) but even if I was on his side the analysis is just so fucking lazy.
Another way Texans are stupid: I've heard so many variations of this status update:
40's in the morning, high 70's by afternoon. Only in Texas!
Or marvelling that one needs a jacket in the morning but not by the afternoon, and how uniquely Texan that is. Yes, we are the only state that experiences weird warming up midday and then cooling off at night. How uniquely us.
We hear "only in LA" for the exact same weather change, but it's invariably said by east coast transplants.
So, can I tell you about my son?
I'm going to avoid sacrilege here by addressing "G-d" directly and just note that Jesus never actually worships himself in the Bible, to my knowledge.
I always liked Yglesias' basketball posts, including that one.
There is one single topic -- monetary policy/full employment -- that Yglesias is still excellent on. Here is a recent example.
How is monetary policy/full employment a description of a single topic, Walt?
Anyway, I think he's still excellent on most topics. Feel free to disagree.
How is monetary policy/full employment a description of a single topic, Walt?
Well, the so-called "natural unemployment rate", supposedly the closest to full employment you can get without inflation, is a central assumption of conventional (ie hawkish) monetary policy.
They are related concepts in the overall category of "economic policy" I would guess.
And that category would probably comprise about 80% of his posts. Then there are 10% about the new urbanism, 5% about foreign policy, and 5% about basketball.
Didn't you know, this is a Matt Yglesias fan blog?
And you thought the hurricane was a big story: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm and release new Star Wars films. Via MY, since this is his fan site.
This is pretty messed up, speaking of schools:
http://rt.com/usa/news/taser-boy-playground-webb-611/
50: MY regards full employment as an outcome of monetary policy. I don't know if it's clear from that post, but I think it's clear from his general posts on monetary policy.
55 is pretty amazingly despicable.
This is pretty messed up, speaking of schools
Wonderful. Fuck everyone.
55: Good lord. What is wrong with some people? Hope Higgin's suit manages to inflict some damage.
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I contend that "Michigan" and "which it stands" constitutes a rhyme, even if imperfect.
40's in the morning, high 70's by afternoon. Only in Texas!
It's certainly not only in Texas, but 30-40 degree temperature swings every day get to be a pain in the ass.
In Ohio. people say, "If you don't like the weather in Ohio, just wait a couple of hours."
I was raised in the land of G/godless heathens, and never had to pledge allegiance to anything. Still don't know the US pledge of allegiance, and can't make it through the US national anthem. It also appears my homestate doesn't have a pledge, but my googling was very superficial. Instead of the US national anthem, we did sing what was called "the black national anthem" at every assembly in elementary school, "Lift Every Voice and Sing," and I still know the first two verses. Apparently the black national anthem is kind of a controversial term though?
65: Not to burst your bubble of super-specialness, but people say that in lots of places.
(But you're still super special, peep!)
55 sounds like an accident. My guess is that he was joking around and thought he didn't have a cartridge in the taser. He's a huge moron but possibly not a sadist.
68.1 That was actually kind of my point.
68.2: Thanks Sir Kraab!
I hope the lawsuit succeeds, but in a remotely sane world that guy would be charged with assault.
Does Yglesias really think monetary policy is the only way to affect employment? That doesn't sound like him. That sounds like Friedman.
55 sounds like an accident. My guess is that he was joking around and thought he didn't have a cartridge in the taser. He's a huge moron but possibly not a sadist
Let's be careful out there
14: In school I always sat silently for the pledge because I was Deeply Principled in Ways that Mattered Immensely.
Two guys just asked me if I was Jewish. By their hats, I think they were going to tell me I was doing it wrong if I had said yes. I should have been carrying a flag with my religion on it.
45: I think NYC is the first place I've ever lived that nobody ever says "you know what they say about [place]: If you don't like the weather, wait a minute." As if in all other locales, the weather is boringly constant.
In NYC, what they say is "if you like being multiply pwned, comment and then wait a minute and then read the last 30 comments."
55 69
The smoking gun has more. The cop is in fact claiming it was an accident.
No pledges of any kind at my godless liberal high school in Texas. I wasn't in public school before that.
If you don't like the godlessness, wait a decade and it will change.
I'm sure my kids never learned this: "Flag of Alabama I salute thee. To thee I pledge my allegiance, my service, and my life."
On the other hand "War Eagle!" seems to have been permanently imprinted in a part of their brain that lights up (faintly, this year) during the football season.
I hope the Idaho pledge mentions defending the flag against the black helicopters.
In school I always sat silently for the pledge because I was Deeply Principled in Ways that Mattered Immensely.
I don't do it at my daughters' school, and I have been known to place the tip of my index finger below my nose and make a little Hitler salute while others do, because I'm So Fucking Mature.
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NMM, however politely, to Letitia Baldridge.
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Sorry, Baldrige. How rude of me.
83: "I pledge allegiance to the potato, and against the government for which it stands, and to defend until my last breath the right of white people to aim assault rifles at federal agents."
14: In school I always sat silently for the pledge because I was Deeply Principled in Ways that Mattered Immensely.
Me tooooooo.
I once got a detention for farting. After that I didn't make any more stands on principle.
Yes, if you sit while farting it's easier to blame somebody else.
Didn't you know, this is a Matt Yglesias fan blog?
You've been away for a while, text. In the meantime we've become a Matt Yglesias hate blog.
OT: I have a high fever and just had a fever dream in which I came up with a four-variable sociological model (two per sex) that explains men and women's attitude to pornography. Now I am lying awake and feeling terrible but am persuaded by my elaborate model.
Now we just wait for AWB to show up and... KABOOM!
My high school didn't have us say the pledge. During my freshman year, the city renamed Columbus Day Indigenous People's Day. We also got days off for International Women's Day and Malcolm x's birthday.
Francis Bellamy is buried a short walk away from my home. My name below links to a photo of his grave I took a couple of years ago.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of Michigan,
And to the state for which it stands,
Two beautiful peninsulas united by a bridge of steel,
Where equal opportunity and justice to all is our ideal.
My god, it's like the Tay Bridge Disaster.
I was wondering if they had boiled it in wine.
14: I never put it that way, but that's kind of how I felt. I didn't ever encounter it until the third grade when I showed up in public school. Everyone else knew the words, and I didn't. I thought that pledging allegiance to a flag seemed terribly wrong.
69: Even as an accident the department ought to cough up some money. That kid is going to need some help, and they shouldn't get away with not checking to make sure that the cartridge is empty before he goes near a large group of kids.
And so he worked towards his peroration--which, by the way, he used later with overwhelming success at a meeting of electors--while they sat, flushed and uneasy, in sour disgust. After many many words, he reached for the cloth-wrapped stick and thrust one hand in his bosom. This--this was the concrete symbol of their land--worthy of all honour and reverence! Let no boy look on this flag who did not purpose to worthily add to its imperishable lustre. He shook it before them--a large calico Union Jack, staring in all three colours, and waited for the thunder of applause that should crown his effort.- Rudyard Kipling, 1899
They looked in silence. They had certainly seen the thing before--down at the coastguard station, or through a telescope, half-mast high when a brig went ashore on Braunton sands; above the roof of the Golf Club, and in Keyte's window, where a certain kind of striped sweetmeat bore it in paper on each box. But the College never displayed it; it was no part of the scheme of their lives; the Head had never alluded to it; their fathers had not declared it unto them. It was a matter shut up, sacred and apart. What, in the name of everything caddish, was he driving at, who waved that horror before their eves? Happy thought! Perhaps he was drunk.
OT for Halloween: "there's an unnameable unimaginable horror in ma basement and I'd like it punted"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGTEOrX_I08
re: 103
Heh. Believe it or not, I've linked that same clip here before.
"No reasonable officer confronting a situation where the need for force is at its lowest, on a playground with elementary age children, would have deployed the Taser in so reckless a manner as to cause physical and psychological injury," Higgins adds.
This statement is really, profoundly weird. The cop was at an elementary school for career day. The need to use force is not at its lowest; it's not even in the equation. There's no "situation" to confront. And then it presupposes that there could be non-reckless way to use the taser. As though it'd be ok if the kid didn't have scars and PTSD!
How do you learn what happens when you Taser a small child if nobody ever does it? The officer is at the leading edge of science, the part that only moves forward after gross stupidity.
104: get out now! The pwning is coming from inside your ethnic group!
"I have devised a genuinely novel four-variable sociological model of attitudes toward pornography."
105: Those are basically magic words that you have to recite to state a claim of excessive force under the Fourth Amendment.
109: Is there any reason this is being treated as excessive force rather than assault?
92, 93: I often feel this way about ideas I had in dreams. But I'm gonna warn you, Tigre, they don't live up to conscious scrutiny.
110: is there any reason why criminal charges have not been pursued?
109: Is there any reason this is being treated as excessive force rather than assault?
Assuming the laws are similar to here it would be child abuse rather than assault. By statute assault is basically an unlawful attempt to do violent injury to another person. An accidental taser would better fit (at least in Utah) misdemeanor child abuse.
(3) Any person who inflicts upon a child physical injury or, having the care or custody of such child, causes or permits another to inflict physical injury upon a child is guilty of an offense as follows:... (b) if done recklessly, the offense is a class B misdemeanor
110: No need to choose one or the other. The complaint includes a number of claims, battery among them.
110: is there any reason why criminal charges have not been pursued?
Maybe she attempted it and got rebuffed by the local prosecutor but it's also possible she didn't do this and has only pursued the civil route.
I wrote some truly elegant code in my dreams a few nights ago. All I remember is that it was elegant and concise. No idea what it did or how to recreate it.
I spoke semi-fluent Spanish in my dream last night. Which is odd, since I haven't attempted to speak significant Spanish in a decade and have a terrible memory for details. It was no better than the Spanish I spoke twelve years ago, but it was like I had great access to all the vocabulary which is there but hard for me to access.
Also I was being assessed on how well I taught a Spanish class, and it was a class that I usually bullshitted and taught in English, just interjecting a word here and there in Spanish, so I was totally caught and bluffing that I always spoke Spanish to the kids. I had to explain, in Spanish, why I liked teaching Spanish, and I made some dumb analogy with math.
Too long, Heebie, no one cares about your stupid dream.
I am a California Child, I love this golden state. Its mountains high its valleys wide its people good and great. I love the dear old pioneer that made us what we are and gave to us this golden state our Nations brightest star.
this one is OK because California really is awesome. Except for the 'people good and great' part all the rest is true. Megan will confirm me on this.
I once woke up with an original, beautiful symphony playing in my ears. If I had had pen, paper, and the ability to transcribe a full orchestral score it could've been my "Scrambled Eggs".
Yglesias' article on OKC/Harden trade is idiotic. Classic example of from-the-hip econ 101 theorizing on a topic you know nothing about. Also the arrogance of assuming successfuly professionals in an area know less than you do after you think five minutes what they do. You should start by assuming that successful people in an industry have reasons for doing what they're doing and try to determine what that is.
Among the most obvious flaws: Harden almost certainly wanted the ability to approve any trade, OKC's motivation in trying to set a team norm of players accepting underpayment is ignored, etc.
If you want to read an actual good discussion of the Harden situation, Bill Simmons tears it up here and here (latter from before the trade). He puts the blame where it belongs, on team greed rather than the puzzling failure to take intro econ.
Argh -- "the arrogance of assuming successful professionals in an area know less than you do after you think for five minutes about what they do". The arrogance of not proofreading.
not proofreading.
That's pretty topical in this context.
119: I love this golden state. Its mountains high its valleys wide its people good and great.
At first I thought this was a Mitt Romney parody. "The mountains are the right height."
We don't need really tall mountains like Colorado or Alaska. They're just slutting it up for the geology freaks.
it was like I had great access to all the vocabulary which is there but hard for me to access.
I had a dream like this once, but (I was able to tell because it stuck with me better than usual) I think my linguistic consciousness sort of grayed out at the words I didn't know or might have forgotten.
When I was about 14 I took a year of guitar with a guy who also taught lucid dreaming, and claimed he had won an international composition award for a piece he saw/heard in its entirety in a dream, and just had to wake up and transcribe it.
114.---Not to mention the fact that the incident began with the officer's trying to make the kids wash his patrol car. Egregious abuse of authority. That man should not be a cop.
I have crappy barely remembered dreams. But once, many years ago, while on drugs, I had a mental image of all of the relationships among my circle of friends and family. Like a social-Venn. Each person was a particular coloured circle, and the overlap between the different circles mixed to create a colour that identified a particular type of relationship (sibling, close-friend, frenemy, sexual, etc) and the saturation level of the colour reflected the intensity of the relationship, with (iirc) a directional gradient if it was strong in one way than the other. It was amazingly clear, but completely gone once I sobered up.
121 122
Simmons and Yglesias seem to be in basic agreement that the "successful professionals" acted stupidly in this instance.
110 reminds me of a question that I've had for a while. In criminal law is assault just the same as battery or does the distinction that they teach in Torts apply? I was just thinking that the kid might have been battered without ever experiencing fear of imminent harm and thus not assaulted.
130 -- no, Simmons thinks they prioritized money over winning and in a sense made a rational choice to increase profits. That's more of a moral issue. He does think that's 'stupid' in the sense that they were guaranteed to make high profits either way and as a fan he believes it's more pleasurable to win championships than to squeeze every last dollar out of a franchise, but it's more of a values issue.
79: Oh, an accident! Well, that's a relief.
Here's my prediction: The cop gets a month suspension without pay, and they don't let him go to anymore Career Days. Then, he goes to the special pro-cop tribunal to appeal the suspension, and they order the department to pay him back all his suspended wages. The city settles with the kid's parents for $150K or so, and promises more "training"*. 10 years from now we find out that the kid's become a car thief and OD'd on heroin. And everyone lives happily ever after.
*Didjya ever notice how the only thing the police ever have to do when they get caught assassinating black kids or beating up blind men or cruising their van into a crowd of parade watchers is "more training"? How the fuck much training do you need to know it's wrong to shoot a black kid in the back? 1 hour? 10 hours? 100 hours? Do you need a special refresher training on not-shooting-black-kids-in-the-back every 6 months or so? Maybe they do it all online now, and you have to retake the Should-I-shoot-a-black-kid-in-the-back? quiz until you get at least 70% of the questions correct. Perhaps there are junkets to Las Vegas where noted criminologists with PowerPoint presentations explain at length to Captains and Chiefs why they should tell their officers not to shoot black kids in the back. Or how about an iPhone app that you can query as to whether it's a good idea or not to shoot a particular black kid in the back? Coming soon for Android!
132
Simmons ends his second column by predicting:
2. Oklahoma City will rue the day it traded James Harden.
implying their choice was not in fact rational.
133
Here's my prediction: The cop gets a month suspension without pay, ...
Actually he got 3 days suspension.
I was thinking about the story earlier today, and I was wondering if something like 133 would be the outcome. Especially the "training".
Also I was being assessed on how well I taught a Spanish class, and it was a class that I usually bullshitted and taught in English, just interjecting a word here and there in Spanish, so I was totally caught and bluffing that I always spoke Spanish to the kids. I had to explain, in Spanish, why I liked teaching Spanish, and I made some dumb analogy with math.
My high school calculus teacher was a super good teacher; a couple years after us he moved on to teaching math teachers how to be better teachers. Part of his schtick was that he was also gunning to be bilingual for the higher pay, and he would throw very labored Spanish words into his lectures and congratulate himself on getting closer to his goals.
He also designated kids in the class to give specific answers to things (always the same - Manish was responsible for telling us the derivative of a constant, every single time all year. I think the trig functions also each had a kid who had to know the derivative of each one.) When he'd get to that part of a problem, he'd point at the kid who had to give that piece of information. He really was a great teacher.
Anyway, you can start throwing Spanish words into your lectures if you want. It worked for one guy, twenty-five years ago.
135: I guess I figured there was some chance he could be re-suspended, but I don't know all the particulars of New Mexican local PD HR policies, so that indeed may be his only punishment.
He also designated kids in the class to give specific answers to things
I've seen this work really well, too. I vividly remember one kid who was designated "Let ε be greater than zero!" in my undergrad real analysis class, which he delivered with gusto, whenever pointed at.
Simmons and Yglesias seem to be in basic agreement that the "successful professionals" acted stupidly in this instance.
What's fascinating about the trade is that there's legitimate reason for disagreement about it. For most NBA trades it's pretty obvious why they're happening and what each team is trying to accomplish. In this case it's not simple.
Both Simmons and Yglesias are on the same side of that argument, saying that the trade was a bad idea, but Simmons actually gives reasons for his position beyond, "why make the trade now when you could have made it later?"
Simmons understands the financial argument for the trade while Yglesias simply doesn't understand it. Simmons thinks it's a huge mistake to prioritize profit levels over winning when you're already making a hefty profit, but he understands the profit motivation. Yglesias just doesn't understand the business and doesn't seem to realize he doesn't understand it. So the two pieces are not similar at all, they are dealing at different levels.
Simmons quote:
Less than 100 hours ago, I thought the Thunder were headed for another Finals and another chance at toppling LeBron and Wade. That's not happening with Jeremy Lamb and Kevin Martin. Instead, they made a different kind of history: becoming the first NBA contender that ever jeopardized multiple titles for financial reasons and financial reasons only. It's never happened before.
Note the financial reasons.
55 sounds like an accident. My guess is that he was joking around and thought he didn't have a cartridge in the taser. He's a huge moron but possibly not a sadist.
I don't think it was an accident. The cop specifically said 'let me show you what happens to people who do not listen to the police' and then pulled the trigger. That statement makes no sense if the taser is unloaded. I think what is happening is that we have gone so far toward normalizing casual torture of citizens by the police that at least a few cops feel comfortable doing it even in the most inappropriate contexts.
In his mind it was probably an 'accident' in the sense that if he'd thought about it more he would have realized it didn't make sense to taser a ten year old boy, but what was happening is that he was used to casually tasering people and didn't check his behavior here.
This seems like an important test case for whether there is going to be any limit at all on police authority to abuse citizens.
Do cops usually carry unloaded tasers?
I assume it was an "accident" in the sense that he thought the taser was unloaded and he could pull the trigger as a joke, and it wasn't. So he was super-stupid and the Department should pay something, but it's not really an important test case for anything, other than that sometimes people are idiots.
Note the financial reasons.
Here's the thing that I don't understand. If this was a case of ownership dictating policy to the GM, saying that they couldn't go above a certain salary number, then it would seem like the easiest option for Presti would be MY's preference -- fail to work out either an extension or a trade and kick the can to next summer.
If Presti really didn't want to trade Harden it seem unlikely that ownership would have been able to force it.
So I have to assume that Presti was comfortable with it. I don't know if it was his first choice, or what constraints he was facing. But I don't think he was just being pushed to execute a certain financial plan.
[Note: There was, for example, a comment on DailyThunder that the line between the $53M number that Presti offered and the max (about $60M) was the difference between the Thunder have access to the mid-level exception next summer vs only having the mini mid-level, so it wasn't an arbitrary line.]
I'm still not sure what I think of the trade but I don't think it's a case like the Nets trading for Joe Johnson (which, as I understand) was dictated by ownership).
142: Yes, exactly. Everything about this incident further confirms for me that a full-bore authoritarian society could emerge in the US with just some bad luck and a little prodding.
Simmons is given to making different mistakes, such as saying that something is the first time something has ever happened, or the biggest thing that has ever happened, when it's actually the first time in a decade, or the first time in six months, or something. Then he goes back and adds weasel words so that he's making a statement that is simultaneously hyperbolic and meaningless.
What about when the Kings traded Doug Christie for Cuttino Mobley and then traded Chris Webber for Brian Skinner? That was for financial reasons, but I'm sure he'd say it wasn't for "financial reasons and financial reasons only", because of something to do with Alpha Dogs or The Ewing Theory or something. The Kings went from winning 7 playoff games in 2003 and 7 playoff games in 2004 to winning 1 playoff game in 2005. They have an excuse because Brad Miller got hurt right after the trade, but still, that was obviously financial flexibility being chosen over wins.
147: yes, Simmons excitability is a problem, and his statement that no one has ever broken up a championship core for financial reasons. Forget Sacramento, think about Dallas after their 2011 championship.
I assume it was an "accident" in the sense that he thought the taser was unloaded and he could pull the trigger as a joke, and it wasn't. So he was super-stupid
Even if this were true, it would still be abusive and horrible. Mock executions are torture, I think it is perfectly fair to say that it's authoritarian and grotesque to pull this kind of shit even if the taser actually is unloaded.
Even if this were true, it would still be abusive and horrible. Mock executions are torture
Agreed.
It doesn't read to me like a mock execution, or at least not obviously so. Wasn't the kid's mother right there? It doesn't read to me like the "threat" was supposed to be taken seriously, but as a joke. Not saying it's not a stupid joke but "torture" and "mock execution" seem a bit stron based on the facts as reported. Of course, I wasn't there, and that sort of thing is why they can have a trial.
People, get a grip. The cop was joking around with kids on career day for fucks sakes. He wasn't actually trying to make the kids wash his car and he wasn't wandering around looking to tase a ten year old. He made a hugely stupid mistake but he's not a sadist.
The tasers have removable cartridges which snap on to the end of the main piece (pardon my shitty blackberry pics with the delightful backdrop of my ottoman), see here and here. He probably had taken off the cartridge earlier to show the taser to kids. They clamor to see that kind of shit all the time. When you pull the trigger without a cartridge in it does a five second cycle that looks like this, and really, that pic doesn't do it justice. That electrical arc is a bright bluish white and it makes a hugely loud crackling sound and kids absolutely fucking love it.
It was amazingly clear, but completely gone once I sobered up
The trick, of course, is that the belief that it was amazingly clear is part of the dream. I kind of hate that about the way dreams work - mental processes like "this makes sense" or "I know where I am" are totally short-circuited and replaced with $DREAMSTATE, generating this sense of loss or tip-of-tongue syndrome when you wake up, when there never was a thing to begin with.
Are you saying that when I've figured out how to fly in a dream, and that it's so simple and if I can only remember how when I wake up I'll be able to do it in real life, I'm mistaken?
When moronic accidents are indistinguishable from sadistic authoritarian torture, there is something really fucking wrong. Lack of respect for equipment, at the very least, but also, not understanding how to work with kids, being allowed outdoors without proper training, lack of caution and foresight.
That cop and that department shouldn't need external motivation for this, but I still hope that a really expensive suit, and fear of future very expensive suits gives them reason to make sure their cops don't do stuff that can be readily interpreted as sadistic torture. They shouldn't even be doing shit that could be stretched to look like sadistic torture.
153: So, and here the rubber meets the road: should he be fired?
147
Simmons is given to making different mistakes ...
His predictions in the first column about what was going to happen were wrong.
I have a hard time thinking the tort system has any systemic effect against police brutality. Why hasn't it done so over the past fifty years?
Some combination of (1) police departments have higher institutional priorities than avoiding tort payouts and (2) most people brutalized will not sue.
160
I have a hard time thinking the tort system has any systemic effect against police brutality. Why hasn't it done so over the past fifty years?
Isn't police misconduct rarer than it used to be? Not thtat this is necessarily because of the tort system.
A civil-rights lawyer I know says that in New York at least, tort liability affects the actions of every aspect of city government except the police and the corrections department. Those agencies have managed to keep lawsuit payouts outside their own budgets and appear not to feel pressure from the city to avoid large payouts.
153: So, and here the rubber meets the road: should he be fired?
Maybe, depending on the person. Maybe this is his latest in a string of boneheaded maneuvers and it's time to let him go. But if it's a guy with an otherwise flawless ten years on the job, citizens on his beat like his work, etc., than I don't know if a momentary lapse should cancel all that out.
Why hasn't it done so over the past fifty years?
Opinions probably vary on the cause but I have a hard time believing things aren't better than the dogs and fire hose days of the sixties.
160 161 162
According to this NYPD officers are shooting people at a lower rate than they used to.
Last year, cops shot and killed eight people, wounding 16 others. The numbers are a sharp decrease from 2009, when police killed 12 and wounded 20.
...
City cops were involved in 105 shootings in 2009 - matching 2008's low, a report found. In 1972, cops logged a record high 994 incidents.
...
In 1971, the first year of recordkeeping, police shot and killed 93 people and wounded 221.
I have a hard time believing things aren't better than the dogs and fire hose days of the sixties.
I agree, but the situation is still unacceptable and in fact seems to be regressing.
With the LAPD, fear of tort (and other) liability absolutely impacts the current culture. That's not the only, or remotely the primary, reason for the LAPD's cultural shift, though.
167
... and in fact seems to be regressing.
Based on what?
I wonder about the comparison. Cops maybe used to beat people more in the old days, but the routine and accepted use of tasers and mace allows severe pain to be inflicted very easily and conveniently and in a way that leaves no marks or later signs. That technology wasn't quite there in the old days, methods left a mark and required more physical effort to deploy. The stuff used today is perhaps safer overall but could easily lead to an increased use of pain compliance methods. Not sure tehre are the stats to see how often they are used today?
but I still hope that a really expensive suit, and fear of future very expensive suits gives them reason to make sure their cops don't do stuff that can be readily interpreted as sadistic torture.
I entirely agree and will be happy to contribute to this.
169: Well, we know that cops deploy Tasers on children* and the elderly on a fairly regular basis; I doubt that beatings of those age groups happened with any regularity 50 years ago.
Same deal with traffic stops, where you see fairly ordinary people getting shot with 50k volts over more or less nothing. 50 years ago, traffic stops didn't come with much fear of police brutality (exceptions: there were [probably urban legendary] rumors about small town cops, and obviously minorities were always at risk).
* via digby
Shit, sorry, should have read more of the thread first.
