Hah. Adventure Time is popular among the Narnian youth? Sally is also a fan -- dressed as Princess Bubblegum for Halloween last year. (And the pink wig was just repurposed so that an English kid attending her school for a term could play Candy Crowley in a reenactment of the foreign policy debate for Social Studies. I hate to stereotype, but you really can't keep English boys out of drag.)
On the actual subject matter of the post, no one ever gets out of middle school, really, do they?
Perhaps we can narrow this slightly to "Tampa."
I think they made a mistake on the plotting. It good too weird too soon and there is nothing even remotely plausible for the next episode.
One slight corrective, my understanding is that the no-shirt pics from the RWNJ FBI agent to Kelley were sent before this whole thing came up.
Also Pete Reichert R-Washington (is he a loon beyond being a standard Republican loon?) was also contacted.
3: Spoiler alert: Joffrey beheads David Axelrod.
So, is this scandal supposed to distract us, so they can start another war? Or, are they going to start another war to distract us from the scandal?
Wait, I just looked at the post again. There's another general involved now? Maybe the Army should be less focused on promoting the "I run five miles every morning and am so personally virile I chew iron and spit nails" type, and find some slightly more chilled out officers.
Given the opportunity, my kids would watch Adventure Time from daybreak until bedtime, with occasional breaks for The Regular Show.
I would not have predicted in 2003 that the next president would be a black dude named Barack Hussein Obama, and also would not have predicted in say, 2007 that David Petraeus would be the focal point of the stupidest and most hilarious sex scandal in living memory.
Mine will watch Johnny Test that way. Thanks to Netflix (with an assist from CAN-CON), I now hate Canada.
I've got a great conspiracy theory to tie this into.
Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.
it is deepavali and so a legal holiday here in narnia, and I had the never-happens situation of being at home with my girls and husband instead of working. we working on the giant beemo I initially made as a costume for my husband but now it's just a giant beemo toy. we made an awesome vhs tape of the ice king's secrets, and cut a swinging slot in beemo's back so we can put the tape in. it is looking pretty perfect.
Less stupid than the Lewinsky scandal. Also, at least this is in fact an affair, with bonus spinoff emailed secret documents. Having anyone, even assholes, lose power because of juvenile texts and nothing else is just sad.
most hilarious sex scandal in living memory
That's a pretty high bar to clear.
David Petraeus is the new Secretary of Defense in the brand new Call of Duty, Call of Duty: Black Ops II. The new first-person shooter features the former general as the Secretary of Defense in the year 2025, serving loyally to female President who looks a whole lot like Hilary Clinton
17: There are no doubt funnier sex scandals going on at the municipal level, but I'm trying to think of a high-profile one that was such a clown parade, and can't come up with anything.
Pete Reichert R-Washington (is he a loon beyond being a standard Republican loon?)
It's Dave Reichert. And no, he's one of the saner ones. He represents a swing district that includes some Seattle suburbs.
I await the details of the "worldview" of the RWNJ FBI agent at the heart of the whole thing.
I was hoping someone would sum this up for me. Thanks, al!
I've long been convinced that Burn After Reading is the most accurate depiction of our national security apparatus ever put to film.
This scandal is only going to get more entertaining when content of the emails and texts get released.
Seriously. They owe it to us to release their sex-talk logs with freaky war-related terms for anal.
It's a distraction from the fiscal "cliff." Gee, if the lead general in Af has time to send 30,000 emails to some married gal in Florida, maybe those military cuts aren't the end of the world.
It's also revenge for April 2009.
Let's see if this crisis isn't too good to waste.
At this moment in a cave in Pakistan, a mid-level Al Qaeda operative wiht internet access is drafting a memo taking credit for the operation that destroyed the command structure of both the CIA and the U.S. forces in Afghanistan.
Is the FBI holding back the hilarious instigator to drop him later as a distraction in case discussion veers in an unfavorable direction, or merely as a power play?
the stupidest and most hilarious sex scandal in living memory.
Really? More than the one with the Baptist preacher and the two wetsuits? More than the revelation of John Major's affair with Edwina Currie? (OK, that one may be a UK-only winner)
I've long been convinced that Burn After Reading is the most accurate depiction of our national security apparatus ever put to film
As Tim Wiener's terrific "Legacy of Ashes" makes clear, the CIA has from its foundation served as a home for upper-class Americans who are literally, clinically nuts.
It is certainly true that only alameida can do this grotesque story justice.
Gee, if the lead general in Af has time to send 30,000 emails to some married gal in Florida
Gosh! What an inspiring testimony to the power of love!
28: And I don't even have time to preview my comments!
14:Huh.
Well, it is pretty clear now that Benghazi was a fullbore CIA torture shop, with security and the torturing subcontracted out to contractors. Obama was supposed to stop the torturing, but not exactly a scandal, because nobody cares but Glenzilla and brown people.
I kinda care that H Clinton and State took the fall for CIA fuckups, but I think that is also SOP. So State/Clinton might be mad at Petraeus/CIA, but that is the job description (Valerie Plame).
Nothing to do with General's and their groupies sexing though. Probably.
14: Huh. Huh. So military brass are being shuffled.
Don't believe in the coup, but Israel and Syria are shooting at each other every day now and umm, election is over, and story is that military brass stopped Cheney/neo-cons in 2003, muttering darkly.
Gonna happen, folks. Definitely need to distract from Grand Bargain.
The problem is that there are so many governing bodies now that everybody has a championship belt from one or another. Shoot, Ted Haggard still has one, and he didn't even hire a rentboy to handle his bag or hike the Appalachian Trail. If you know what I mean.
Just because I can, and since work is unbearable today, Kelley's twin sister (who lives in Tampa with her sister and her husband) had been married to Grayson Wolfe who once served as Manager of the Private Sector Development Office of the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq (that's pure distilled wingnut right there). But had a nasty divorce.
James Jesus Angleton is pretzeling in his grave.
30: Oops. Forgot bob might read 14.
I don't know why Stormcrow linked to a nutzoid site.
ABC News. It did happen. October 27
Wow, 33 is fact-based. And Petraeus testified on behalf of the sister in a child custody dispute. Sister perjures, marriage lasted less than a year.
My republican cousin lives in Tampa.
I assume that the FBI found the emails between Kelley and Allen first, which made them much more curious about who was sanding the anonymous ones.
36: Sure the replacement was well known. I went with the nutz because I wanted to bring in the coup speculation.
I can't imagine anyone being able to read the OP, so I suppose this is an all-purpose scandal thread.
Apparently not only is Burn After Reading true to life, so is This Means War, the movie where two deadly CIA operatives use Predator drones, targeted malware, and highly classified documents to be better prepared for dates with Reese Witherspoon.
Do people think Kelley was getting it on with Petraeus too? It would be extra crazy for Broadwell to threaten her on no motivation...although it's entirely possible that Broadwell was a bit crazy, affairs will do that.
Supposedly Petraeus was not popular at the CIA, I'm sure there are many people there who are very good at internal regime change. And there were apparently already rumors about Broadwell.
The reference 'Burn After Reading' above was good...I would love to see what the Coen brothers did with this. The version where this scandal happens organically is the funniest one of all...nutty FBI guy sending topless photos to Kelley, nutty mistress threatens Kelley, it all goes downhill from there.
One thing's for certain: America gives fewer sexual rewards for being a successful warlord than any empire ever.
Troops loyal to Petraeus are amassing from Columbus, GA and Fayetteville, NC and should reach the USP's provisional capital city of McLean by week's end.
42: The real Afghanistan blowback.
40.2: Good point, Ned! Next, we're going to find out that there really are fast food restaurants at the bottom of the ocean.
America gives fewer sexual rewards for being a successful warlord than any empire ever.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
Burn After Reading was well made, well acted, but terrible. A movie that holds its audience in contempt, secrecy and politics only used as a setting. Centered on how contemptible doofusy middle-aged people are for looking for love.
"the heavenly scent of poon! My will is as naught!"
I tried this one in a valentine, to mixed reviews.
46: I quite liked it. If for nothing else, for using The Fugs CIA Man.
America gives fewer sexual rewards for being a successful warlord than any empire ever.
I think this guy might disagree.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He
I do not much care about the specific ins and outs, so to speak, of the Petraeus Kelley Broadwell Allen Protocol Files Affair -- I figure I'll just wait for the novelization to hit the airport bookshelves -- but I would just like to note a couple of random facts:
1. "Jill Kelly" is the name of a famous porn star from the Nineties, so Jill Kelley has like one of the most unfortunate mondegreen surnames of all time.
2. Paula Broadwell is MADD SEXXXY. Seriously, have you seen that woman in interviews? She could make a man "pop wood," as Onion Joe Biden would put it, by reading the phone book. She has so much charisma and allure that there was barely enough left over for this year's batch of stripper names. And gosh-darnit, [gents, insert your own no-doubt-classier variant on a "she could debrief me anytime fnarr fnarr" joke here]. Which in and of itself isn't that important, except that I'd just like to thank American Juicy Scandal and American Actual-News-Weariness for bringing her to my attention.
Good piece by Glenn Greenwald on what this case shows about the surveillance state. Bonus: links to early leaks of the Broadwell/Kelley emails.
Agreed with 50.2. She is seriously sexy, she has that smoulder along with good looks. Imagine having her as your worshipful biographer...tough to resist.
Petraeus is 60, Broadwell is 40, and Kelley is 37. At least Petraeus is precisely following the half-your-age-plus-seven rule.
I agree that she's sexy and that this is probably all about something much worse, but who knows what that is.
The NY Times is now saying that the Ethicist letter from a fellow who's wife was having an affair with a Very Important Gov't Official Who Runs Shit was not from Scott Broadwell, which, really, is a damned shame.
Alameida's account of the story is indeed superb. One missing detail: apparently, there is an e-mail from Broadwell to Allen about Kelley, or even pretending to be Kelley.
that's your cray cray right there.
also, Jill Kelley has changed her name several times, always to something with initials G/J K. so the pornname may even be deliberate.
I am now waiting to hear that either Broadwell or Kelley or both was spackerman's MILF. because you can't have a weirdo human interest COIN Mafia/Iraq Dissident story without him!
||
Speaking of elections, party like it's 1996 at the original Dole/Kemp website which is still up.
|>
This is a scandal that just keeps on giving.
The nice thing about sex scandals is that nobody gets hurt/everybody has fun (well, except for Holly Petraeus, but she's at least going to get a lot more time with her husband now and presumably he will be contrite and do lots of stuff around the house). Also, I think/hope every new sex scandal makes people more realistic about the fact that people really like sex.
59 is great. Is there a museum of these things? Bob Dole, the Space Jam of politics.
Oh, wait. That is part of a museum.
most hilarious sex scandal in living memory
What, no love for Anthony "Eponymous" Weiner?
63: This is so much funnier. Weiner committed political suicide. Petraeus' career was destroyed by a Rube Goldberg machine of a sex scandal that apparently will destroy the career of another high ranking general, and possibly a wingnut FBI agent.
59: Oh terrific. Just seeing Jack Kemp's name put "Where Ya At" in my head. ("Don't play me like a shrimp/ dunk it on your head then I'll point like Shawn Kemp.")
1: On the actual subject matter of the post, no one ever gets out of middle school, really, do they?
ms. bill basicallly said this this morning, except "high school" rather than "middle school."
Geez, I read a bunch of the comments on that ABC story: I guess I've been pretty insulated from the RW over this Benghazi business. There are surely PhDs in psychology (and other disciplines) to be had over this madness.
Yes, Benghazi is the new Fort Marcy Park.
This rumor certainly has an intense psychosexual dimension to it.
59: But you can't make a button anymore
Honestly, in middle school who wasn't doing 40 year old housewives in Tampa and ordering drone strikes?
69, 70: C'mon per Charlie Daniels: "What is more important,one General's indiscretion or the fact that four Americans died in Benghazi?" People died. Unprecedented in US Middle East foreign policy operations.
73: What can I say? We were advanced.
I'm not generally a fan of answering questions with questions, but the proper response to 74 would have been, "What is more important: the fact that four Americans died in Benghazi or that 4400 Americans died in Iraq?"
73, 75 And I thought I was cool, because I was doing undergrads and carrying an Uzi.
As I think about it, the surveillance issues Greenwald talked about in the piece I linked in 51 are pretty important. Think about what happened here -- someone contacted a personal friend in the FBI regarding some bitchy but non-criminal emails she had received. The FBI then traced back the emails and downloaded tens if not hundreds of thousands of personal emails from various accounts. They *still* didn't find any evidence of criminal anything, but they found some embarrassing personal stuff about a public figure, which an FBI agent then leaked to a friendly politician who apparently was going to leak it to the press. The Nixon dirty tricks squad would have loved having this kind of ability.
Petraeus is 60, Broadwell is 40, and Kelley is 37. At least Petraeus is precisely following the half-your-age-plus-seven rule.
David Cross and Amber Tamblyn are breaking the rule, but I'm giving them a pass because they make me laugh.
At least Petraeus is precisely following the half-your-age-plus-seven rule.
I really wish someone on one of the talk shows would, with a completely straight face, offer this as a defense of Petraeus.
78: This is really true -- I don't feel particularly bad for Petraeus, because I entirely fail to care about him, but everyone involved in the FBI investigation (to the extent that the impression I've got about it is accurate) should be fired and personally shunned by all decent people.
I am enjoying the heck out of this story. The unseemly fetishizing of the military becomes literal! It reminds me of Guckert/Gannon, the literal media whore.
I find the whole story odd. So many people seem shocked shocked that a group of people worked closely together for years and then some of them wanted to (and did) sleep together despite marriages to other people. These were supposed to be magic people, to whom the very thought of sleeping with other people would never occur.
Jill Kelley and Natalie Khawam = Kitty and Lydia Bennett?
I'm loving this story too, because Petraeus was untouchable for the better part of a decade. Any criticism of the guy was akin to pooping on The Troops.
46: I was perplexed while watching Burn After Reading, but then a few days later I realized it was the Coens' parody of Rashomon and then it all made sense.
Well, yes. That's exactly the problem with the FBI investigation. This is workplace gossip, not national security. (Oh, if there is some kind of formal rule about how the CIA director must be pure as the driven snow or else the Ruskies will blackmail them, fine, but that doesn't seem to be what drove the investigation.)
83: That's the thing that makes the scandal compelling to me (and has made this not a Productivity Day, as I had hoped): These are recognizable human frailties.
Sure. My biographer is always coming on to me, but I stay strong.
I'd say they're nearly inevitable human frailities. Given that they're nearly inevitable, why the shock?
85: No one wants to be a troop pooper.
Ok, I'm going back to work.
The ease and apparent casualness with which the FBI just sucked up a shitload of personal email makes me unhappy.
You don't get to pretend to be a Spartan while acting like an Athenian.
Take the case of Gen. Allen: he's said to have sent 20-30,000 emails, some flirtatious, to JK, while he was in Af and she was in Florida. Even if nothing went on between them that was a violation of the UCMJ, one can guess that this isn't exactly what Mrs. Allen thought was supposed to be going on. The question for us, though, is whether a guy can be (a) commander of NATO and (b) a besotted laughingstock. I'll grant that there may be people of such talent that the answer would be that it doesn't matter. In general, though, it's easy enough to just go the the next guy down the list for the NATO assignment, and let Gen. Allen fill some less public spot.
I find Spackerman's mea culpa rather odd. Admirably candid, by journalist standards, of course, but it conveys the impression that if Petraeus had an affair, he couldn't have been the amazing general everyone portrayed him as - it's his "downfall". Is this this actual Beltway consensus?
nearly inevitable human frailities
Exactly. Some version of this is going on in practically every workplace, every day.
apparent casualness with which the FBI just sucked up a shitload of personal email
That is indeed the real scandal here. But we have been on this path for quite some time now, and it certainly hasn't gotten any better since Bush left office.
to have sent 20-30,000 emails,
This seems impossible in terms of how many hours there are in the day. There has to be something weird about the number, like an email with a 500 page attachment gets counted as 500 pages of email.
If they kept replying to the same messages such that all the previous messages were included in each new message, the pages inflate very fast.
79: I think they're only a year off from the gap between Lee and me, so it won't take them too long to cross the threshold, which I think was only a year ago for us. If the younger person is prematurely haggard (not that I'm saying Tamblyn is, long may she reign) and the older one is all whimsical and whatnot, it can work just fine. I do think they have a bit of that dynamic.
And I keep wanting to like 84 in a facebooky way since I do indeed like it in a real way.
30,000 pages of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not sound as romantic.
Something I read (I thought it was here) claimed that this was counting all of the previously-quoted emails in each email chain, so that's N^2 in the number of messages per chain. That is, it's the dumb measure you get if you take all the messages from gmail or whatever and print each message out independently, including all of the quoting.
apparent casualness with which the FBI just sucked up a shitload of personal email
Yep, this is the real issue. It looks like most of it (until the very end, when they got a warrant and searched Broadwell's computer) didn't require a warrant and wasn't anything that a dedicated private investigator couldn't find, but I may well have some of the details wrong. Obviously it's wrong to start FBI investigations based on personal friendships and connections but, you know, welcome to the real world, that's how things have always worked. And I guess in this case there was at least some plausible national security connection to investigate.
it conveys the impression that if Petraeus had an affair, he couldn't have been the amazing general everyone portrayed him as - it's his "downfall".
Yeah I find this weird too. A lot of people are suddenly being all "Now we know that Petraeus was a crappy general," which is based on . . .? I don't really know enough to know one way or another, but he certainly seemed like one of our better generals and infinitely better than, e.g., Tommy Franks.
Just read spackerman's piece. Don't get it. I think he's hiding something.
apparent casualness with which the FBI just sucked up a shitload of personal email
This could be the silver lining of the scandal: that Washington muckety-mucks begin to realize that the surveillance state that was meant to target mooslims and hippies could be turned on them. That's the most plausible mechanism for getting Congress to take action, à la the Video Privacy Protection Act of '88.
107: Snorkeling is a third date kind of thing.
Salon mentions that Jill Kelley and her sister appeared on a Food Network show in 2003, cooking alligator. No word abouth their biscuits.
I guess it turns out that Eisenhower sucked at generalmanship.
With Wolframalpha's help, it looks like if each email takes up n pages, and there are x emails each quoting all of the previous ones in the chain, the cumulative total of printed pages T = 0.5*n*(x^2 + x). If n = .5 (two emails per page) and T = 30,000, x = 345.91. If n = 1, x = 244.45. That seems more in the realm of possibility.
I really hope 108 turns out to be the case.
I spent a good bit of the late 90s saying that the problem wasn't that WJC was having sexual relations outside marriage, but that he'd chosen someone who (a) thought he was going to leave Hilary for her and (b) told her friends so. I mean, come on, a little judgment here. We have the same thing with Gen. P: if he's such a genius, how's he caught up with the junior high cat fight thing?
It's no surprise that journalists get seduced by powerful people who figure out how to play them, and Gen. P figured out how to play Spack. So he takes a second look, starbursts cleared from his eyes, and sees he's been played. Good for him to come out with that.
anything that a dedicated private investigator couldn't find
???? I don't think so.
The initial complaint led to IP addresses from which Broadwell sent messages, which any teenager can figure out how to look at, no identifying info (in principle). The next step, identifying all email aliases accessed by those IP addresses, requires cooperation of Google+Yahoo+other providers or access to an independent database of all US communication. There was a 2004 lawsuit where an AT&T technician charged with mirroring traffic for the NSA explained how this database was fed.
I have long predicted scandals like this one, and will be interested to see whether there's any public discussion of this aspect.
This is what I find most disturbing
Vernon Loeb: The Washington Post editor who ghostwrote All In.
Broadwell has a PHD and she needed a ghostwriter.
No word abouth their biscuits.
From the photos I've seen, she has a pretty nice set of biscuits.
"And Vernon, make sure it sounds like I like him. Not just like him, I mean like like him. But don't make it sound too needy, like desperate or whatever. Thank you Vernon, you're such a sweet guy."
Also, why the hell would you measure email in "pages"? Is it because those FBI idiots actually printed them out?
118: She doesn't have a PhD yet. And this book, I thought was basically a big part of her diss -- yet she had a "co-"author. So totally bizarre.
Broadwell has a PHD and she needed a ghostwriter.
Have you read any dissertations?
122: This is standard when receiving a Ph.D. in the field of Hagiography.
123: That's the real outrage! The state of academia!
Also, why the hell would you measure email in "pages"? Is it because those FBI idiots actually printed them out?
Possibly a matter of routine to preserve retrieved emails on paper and/or PDF format in case they're needed in court?
Also, none of this makes any sense. Could Broadwell be one of those Russian spies?
Of course, quoting the quantity in pages to the media has to be motivated, not naive.
OK, now it looks like hundreds of emails. Over a two year period. We may well not be in laughingstock territory after all.
From the photos I've seen, she has a pretty nice set of biscuits.
If you're using "biscuits" in the Honey Boo Boo sense, and you've seen photos of said biscuits, then the scandal is worse than I thought.
186 -- I read that the feds looked up the IP addresses where the emails were coming from, and then linked them to specific sites (like a hotel wifi system), put together a pattern of movement, figured out that the pattern matched where Broadwell had been on a book tour (presumably they'd already had Broadwell's name as a potential suspect) and only then got a warrant to the ISPs.
That story may be wrong, or there may have been technical issues I'm unaware of, but that basic pattern is similar to what a PI could do.
The government's/law enforcement's position on email is "if you wanted to keep it private, you wouldn't use a third party service like gmail, so once it crosses their servers, we can look without a warrant" isn't it?
133 -- I don't think it's that simple, but I'm pretty far out of my expertise on this subject.
Ah, it seems to require a subpoena, which can be issued by the prosecutor, but not a warrant. But that would apply to any server on which emails are stored, not just Gmail and the like.
135: This EFF blog post says that the 6th Circuit Appeals Court ruled the government needs a warrant for email, but it hasn't become a national requirement. I thought I'd read a detailed thing on email surveillance at the EFF blog, but I guess not.
133 The government's/law enforcement's position on email is "if you wanted to keep it private, you wouldn't use a third party service like gmail, so once it crosses their servers, we can look without a warrant" isn't it?
What does that mean? If you wanted to keep it private, you would run your own mail server at home? That sounds... implausible.
I read this book a few years ago and I remember it being a clear explanation of things like wiretapping and e-mail security, but now I've forgotten all the details.
136: Right, it's still unsettled whether email gets full 4th Amendment protection. The 6th and a couple other circuits have said it does, but at least one circuit has disagreed. Meanwhile, as a matter of federal statute, the Stored Communications Act requires service providers to disclose emails that have been stored for more than 180 days with just a subpoena (newer emails require a warrant).
That EFF post missed the nice fact that, even though the 6th Circuit said the email seizure was a 4th Amendment violation, the material wasn't subject to the exclusionary rule because it was obtained in good-faith reliance on the Stored Communications Act provisions!
That's the real outrage! The state of academia!
Absolutely! Once upon a time, a Ph.D. in War Studies from King's College London meant something.
What does that mean? If you wanted to keep it private, you would run your own mail server at home?
The idea is that, in general, the 4th Amendment doesn't apply when you voluntarily disclose information to a third party, because that indicates you'd don't actually expect it to remain private. So, for example, the phone numbers you dial aren't protected by the 4th Amendment because you have to tell the phone company who you're calling to place the call; but the content of the conversation is protected. Courts are still trying to figure out whether it's reasonable to expect that your ISP etc. isn't looking at your email when they transmit/store it.
Right, it's still unsettled whether email gets full 4th Amendment protection. The 6th and a couple other circuits have said it does, but at least one circuit has disagreed. Meanwhile, as a matter of federal statute, the Stored Communications Act requires service providers to disclose emails that have been stored for more than 180 days with just a subpoena (newer emails require a warrant).
The mind boggles as to what the constitutional jurisprudence looks like that distinguishes the content of emails from the contents of letters or phone calls. The again, the mind boggles at a lot of privacy jurisprudence in the US.
Perhaps this has already been noted, but an image search for Jill Kelley with Safe Search off will reveal rather more cleavage, among other things, than one might expect from a figure in the news.
I suppose it's not a rare name.
The email has no expectation of privacy argument could just as easily have been used for phone conversations -- if you didn't want people to hear what you were saying, you wouldn't send it miles across other peoples' copper wires! But apparently we took privacy more seriously back then.
if you didn't want people to hear what you were saying, you wouldn't send it miles across other peoples' copper wires would let me ride the bus in peace!
Fourth amendment law is very far from the areas of law that I know anything about.
I will say that, generally, people vastly overrate how private their emails are. For example, Petraeus' wife or Broadwell's husband easily could have obtained these emails if they were getting divorced, even if they hadn't known about the divorce. You can come up with a number of other scenarios in which a civil litigant could have done the same and obtained the emails. Obviously, in this case, the CIA and FBI already had the right to search Petraeus and General Allen's email without a warrant for security clearance purposes. Whether or not the FBI needs a warrant to search emails as part of a criminal investigation is a privacy issue, but it's far from the only or the most important issue concerning maintaining the privacy of emails.
The mind boggles as to what the constitutional jurisprudence looks like that distinguishes the content of emails from the contents of letters or phone calls.
Well, that's exactly what the 6th Circuit said: email is fundamentally similar to phone, letters, etc., and should be treated the same for 4th Amendment purposes.
As far as I know (and I'm a year or so out of date on this) only one appeals court (the 11th Circuit) has gone the other way: it analogized a delivered email to a delivered letter, and the latter under long-standing doctrine doesn't get 4th Amendment protection w/r/t the sender (basically because at that point it's been shared with a third party who would have the right to hand it over to the government, so at that point the sender has no reasonable expectation that the government won't get its hands on it; the recipient may be able to assert 4th Amendment rights in the letter at that point, but will probably not have standing to do so if it's being used against the sender).
143 was me.
As it turns out, roughly to 119.
143: Clearly Jill Kelly needs to play Jill Kelley in the movie version of all of this. Maybe she should also direct.
Is there a way to create an "expectation of privacy" where one does not otherwise exist? Like, if Gmail implemented a check box on every email, that you clicked, labeled "I expect this email to be kept private." - and, by clicking that checkbox you would, in fact, have a good faith expectation that Google would keep the message private, because they just indicated that they would. If that is the case, could the government then come back, six months later and say, "nuh uh, you don't expect to have privacy here anymore?"
In other words, if we start expecting email vendors to keep our messages private, does that not then create an expectation of privacy that would enable them to do so?
150: But that would be silly, because then they would know which emails to check for juicy stuff.
Wouldn't you think. But I think you'd need to set up a system like that and wait until you had a test case to see what a court would do. This isn't my area, so I'm not clear on the details of the law as it is, much less as it might be if you tried something of the sort.
To 150: I think not, since this used to exist. Skype used to be uncrackable, roughly speaking. Then MicroSoft bought the company. MS will not confirm or deny whether they've installed a backdoor at the NSA's request.
If Google put up such a button, they would have legal expenses. And also adversely affect their bottom line, since advertisers are interested to know how many user emails contain the phrase "winter cruise" or "artisanal gin."
150.1: Not really; it's not (just) your subjective expectation that counts for 4th Amendment purposes, it's whether "society" considers the expectation "reasonable."* But 150.2 is basically the argument: society clearly does (at this point, if not 20 years ago) expect emails to be treated like phone calls, so the expectation of privacy is reasonable.
*Although the 6th Circuit in holding that the 4th Amendment protected email, did suggest that if your ISP's terms of service affirmatively disavowed privacy you might be out of luck, so this sort of thing isn't irrelevant.
<dopey cypherpunk>
This is why everybody should be using public key encryption for everything!
</dopey cypherpunk>
Well, anyway, I want you all to know that I expect all my rantings on this website to be kept private.
115.2 seems to explain Spackerman pretty succinctly. If Petraeus was not, in fact, a Great Man, then that shifts the whole perception.
My read of his piece is that part of what caused the scales to fall from his eyes is the recognition that his dynamic with P wasn't all that different from Broadwell's. No sex, but the same kind of inappropriately personal and friendly interaction - fraternization, as they say in the military (and baseball).
Also, I already encrypt everything I write using ROT-26, so I think that should cover me.
Based on my uncrackable pseud, I have utter confidence that nothing stated on this blog could ever be traced back to my IRL identity.
159: I was trying to figure out how to say that in the comment and gave up.
Most people probably recognize at this point that just as the recipient of a letter could send the letter around, recipients of email can do the same with email. Getting emails from the service provider without anyone in the to/from/cc/bcc/etc. knowing seems different enough to break the analogy.
This is specifically about archived email, and the assumption that old archived email is abandoned, which is clearly not true.
I once had to re-send a non-sensitive email attachment to someone because they lost the printout and apparently had to purge all (or most) emails older than 30 days so the original message was gone too.
Oh, shit--I just remembered I'd been filing away old letters in a locker at the bus depot.
I pretty much assume that all of my email is being preserved for national dissemination.
143 Perhaps this has already been noted, but an image search for Jill Kelley with Safe Search off will reveal rather more cleavage, among other things, than one might expect from a figure in the news.
Huh. I just get page after page of the same handful of news photos of her, and also of Petraeus and Broadwell.
Apo's email is preserved for insemination.
Huh. I guess Google by default distinguishes Kelley and Kelly and Bing does not.
We can't all be Apo. Must we all be reminded?
171: MS software tends to assume you don't know and don't care about spelling or grammar or stuff like that. Explorer is the only browser that doesn't automatically highlight mistakes, for instance. I think this is emblematic of MS's general idea of the consumer's intelligence.
(This actually bugs me, because I've set my other browsers to kick me off FB and this place when I am at work, you know, so I can be productive. This just leads me to commenting here using MS Explorer, and showing everyone that I don't know how to spell.)
the 11th Circuit
Don't send emails to anyone in Florida.
160 - I've always assumed that you were a young horror movie directory who wanted the Unfoggedetariat to know his love for marijuana, but I guess that wouldn't stand up in court. So you're safe for now, Eli.
I think everyone in politics should be having more sex with each other, and sending emails about it, and that the emails should all belong to the public.
I see from TPM that Mrs. Kelley believes that she has diplomatic immunity.
That means they don't get to read her emails, right?
The drawback is she needs to always have the fasces at hand.
I don't think I'll ever be able to hear the phrase "diplomatic immunity" without immediately adding "It's just been revoked."
181: Surprisingly many diplomats end up getting shot that way.
That's what I mean. If I had a concealed carry permit, and a diplomat said "diplomatic immunity," the temptation would just be too great.
That's pretty much how my brain works on that issue also.
Also, if I find a toilet bomb, I'm going to fly by the lights Mel set up.
181, 182: the truth about Benghazi.
182-185: Someone needs to write fanfic that consists of nothing but Riggs and Murtaugh having absurdist "Waiting for Godot"-style conversations while doing the endless amounts of paperwork and court appearances associated with all the people they've killed.
"I'm getting just the right age for this."
102: 30,000 pages of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not sound as romantic.
30,000 pages of 8==========================> on the other hand...
Just catching up on this scandal this afternoon, I see that Mrs. Kelley's identical twin sister is in all up in it as well, which fact has, okay, completely sucked me in.
Petraeus and Allen wrote letters of support to the judge for Natalie's custody hearing, after her divorce from one G/rayson Wolf/e (awesome name, just awesome, and are we sure we aren't in a CSI: Miami episode?) Natalie is prone to "outrageous conduct" and "illogical thinking," and is $3.2 million in debt. Natalie lives with Mrs. Kelley and her cancer surgeon husband in a mansion at which parties are held which Petraeus has been known to attend in his 28-car motorcade (really? how do we know that? was it in the society pages?) Natalie apparently works (worked?) for the law firm that represented Monica Lewinsky back in the day -- but I heard that on Inside Edition on the wine store's TV a short while ago, so who knows if that's true.
I'd intended not to find any of the Petraeus scandal fascinating or addictive, but I have failed.
More soberly, my work partner found it significant that Mrs. Kelley and her sister are Lebanese. Oh, that can't be relevant to the FBI's interest in the case, can it? Surely not. It just looks like an episode of CSI: Miami to me.
192: It does have the feeling of drawing the curtain back on a satisfyingly lurid and ridiculous cast of characters, one has to admit.
This whole thing is starting to get Hiaasen-esque. Forget it Peaches. It's Tampa.
188: Great act. What do you call yourselves?
The diplomatic corps.
196,1 probably better to the whole Petraeus saga but couldn't come up with short, snappy name that characterized all of the players.
Hiassen-esque really gets it right.
Broadwell begins to seem a bit more sympathetic overall, but that's just my soap-opera-watching self speaking. Who knows. Maybe Broadwell was in essence lecturing Mrs. Kelley (and by extension Natalie?) for being kind of ditzy in the vicinity of four-star Generals.
195: Passages found while searching for the source for the "Forget it, Peaches" line:
"Forget it." Peaches stood and reached for the door.
"Forget it, Peaches," I whisper. "These guys are trouble."
You can bet I won't forget it. Peaches are a mess to peel with a knife.
"Don't you forget it, Peaches. You've been hanging out with Spike too much."
"I don't forget nothing," said Peaches. "I don't forget how I feel."
"Forget it, Peaches. Florentine will come up with the theme, you can come up with the colour scheme and décor. Just don't blow it."
"Forget it, Peaches," he said angrily. "Who's going to want to wish me a tearful farewell?"
Broadwell is really great evidence that everyone should do Crossfit. I mean, here she is in the middle of a sex scandal, involving (a) her screwing the subject of her ludicrously non-objective biography and fake PhD thesis; (b) her bizarre, crazytown emails to some other weirdo in Tampa that brought down the curtain on the whole thing and (c) amateurish uses of Google Mail and Dropbox to cover up an affair with the head of the CIA.
And yet, she seems sympathetic because all anyone can think of his how good she looks and how strong she probably is. Strong is the new sexy.
How much time do our field generals spend hanging out with boneheaded socialites anyway? My image of Petraeus is now morphing into Lord Cardigan in the first Flashman book.
201.2: I have not once thought of how strong she probably is. Although no doubt she is.
Broadwell looked *insane* on The Daily Show and I said so at the time! Why are you wearing evening wear, lady? Amazing shoulders! But the whole updo/formalwear thing looked nutso.
200: I flubbed the line from Chinatown, obvs. Substituing Gen. P's service academy nickname for "Jake."
/standpipe
196,1 probably better to the whole Petraeus saga but couldn't come up with short, snappy name that characterized all of the players.
Have you heard 'love pentagon' yet?
206: Someone else did exactly the same thing with Jersey Shore, believe it or not.
So is there any explanation for why Broadwell needed a ghostwriter for the Petraeus biography? What's that about? She's writing a dissertation? How does she have time for all this stuff? Mother of two (or three?), has some kind of military-related job -- I'm not clear on what that is -- was apparently in Afghanistan for some period of time, jogging with Petraeus (or was that a joke?), and is working on a Ph.D., and appearing on The Daily Show?
I don't get this at all.
I'd just like to thank the military for defending marriage for so long.
You like me, you really like me.
201: (c) amateurish uses of Google Mail and Dropbox to cover up an affair with the head of the CIA
I realize this wasn't your point, which was about Crossfit, but Petraeus deserves some credit for that as well.
I confess, I'm a little uncomfortable with the extent to which people I am tending to question the women involved in all this, while seemingly letting the men off the hook. For the record. I'm getting a picture of an entire culture, or network, of people who are operating a world apart, and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that, in itself. There's still no evidence of wrongdoing or criminal behavior. They can be a bunch of fools if that's their thing, I guess. It sure as hell is surprising, though.
I think we can all agree that Gen. Petraeus and his friends are to be commended on indulging us all with the most elaborate set-up for an "Aristocrats" joke yet devised.
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Dave Wasserman: "A big vote dump in Los Angeles County just pushed Obama's national two-party vote % up from 51.45% to 51.48%." >3.6M bitches!
|>
That shows me not to rely on simply searching the page for a keyword. Sigh.
192: but I heard that on Inside Edition on the wine store's TV a short while ago, so who knows if that's true
Well, that means it's better sourced than 98.4% of what you read on the internet.
201: sorry, halford. sexy is still the new sexy. paula broadwell is straight-up hott. if crossfit helped her get that hot, then yay crossfit. but if an ugly woman had done a bunch of crossfit? the question answers itself, first by saying 'butterface', and then by telling me I'm a bad feminist. as to 99 et seq., I specifically addressed this issue in the OP: "I, personally, like to delete the quoted text [of emails], always, all of it, though I know most people..." I understand that my dense, philosophical arguments can be hard to follow for the lay-reader, but really. perhaps I have allowed myself to be unduly influenced by my husband's imbricolated compression. relatedly, comments on my daughter's first real written report (about nelson mandela): "girl x needs to learn how to edit her work and write more briefly." oh boy.
Isn't it obvious that the next shoe to drop in this story will be the emergence of a Petraeus-Broadwell sex tape?
paula broadwell is straight-up hott.
She's certainly fit, but she really doesn't do it for me.
221: not sufficiently sordid. Maybe two generals, one cup?
221: Petraeus-Broadwell? Or Petraeus-Broadwell-Attackerman-Klosterman?
She's certainly no naughty clown.
222: Nor I. Got kind of a horse-face, really. Petraeus has slightly goofy teeth. It's really kind of amazing they ever got it on.
Seriously, though, the next shoe to drop: more stuff about Natalie as sort of a loose cannon.
According to the iafd, Kelly - one e - was in a film called All the Way In. They must make everything explicit.
Every time I've seen Petraeus on TV, he just seems like some kind of goofy, Beaver Cleaver-type doofus, whose uniform is cut a little too big. Makes you yearn for the good old days. I bet Major General Nguyễn Ngọc Loan would not have had his affair(s) splashed all over the tabloids with ridiculous details humiliating him.
Hot body + super strong + crazy = Probably one hell of a lay
230: plus, he was a general! Rarr.
perhaps I have allowed myself to be unduly influenced by my husband's imbricolated compression.
They have a pill for that now.
Good grief, having apprised myself via TPM of Mrs. Kelley's "honorary consul" status, I have to say it's probably best that the public know of all this tomfoolery. (The public probably roughly knew this stuff went on, but come on.)
I mentioned this elsewhere, but it is at this point obvious that there's only one way for this to go: airboat chase.
More of a predator/prey hunt than a chase, really.
224: I wondered who, other than me, around these parts still looks in on Grantland from time to time. My sense is that it's gotten simultaneously better and worse, which probably counts as a win for Simmons.
236: mostly worse. I check it so I can see how wrong Simmons was on his NFL picks and I read some of the other NFL stuff. (The BQBL was funny last year but is not so funny this year.)
On the other hand unlike other sports sites it doesn't have craploads of (auto-playing) video, so that's a point in favor.
The guy who wrote about Wimbledon was fantastic. Klosterman is pretty terrible, usually, but I liked his piece about Led Zeppelin okay. And I while I enjoy reading Pierce anywhere, I find him more sanctimonious about sports than I do about politics. My media criticism is very, very interesting. I'm sure you'll agree.
Still no Dilaudid, by the way. I asked for it outright, explained that I'm really not a drug addict, and they said no way anywa. They only give it out to people who are an 11 on the 1-10 pain scale. "That we're even having this conversation suggests you don't need it, Mr. Kelman. "That's Dr. Kelman or Professor Kelman to you, you selfish prick."
I don't know if it has gotten worse, but it's mostly pretty bad with an occasional pretty good piece (e.g., this piece, which I read today and was genuinely informative). I guess it's generally better than plain-vanilla ESPN.com but its low points are really intolerable.
Oh yeah the Wimbledon stuff was good. I like that Barnwell guy they got because he appears to be a sorry, degenerate, lifelong casino-haunting shell of a gambler but he is also like twenty-two.
239: dang. I don't think I know a guy anymore, sorry.
I dislike Pierce and find him intolerable in all mediums and on all subjects, so I'm internally consistent like a motherfucker.
Whenever I type in the url I think to myself "gruntlad!" so possibly I enjoy that aspect as well.
241: what? That dude looks and sounds (in print) 58.
245: I knoooooow it's the greatest.
242: to their credit, they've got me on some supercharged Vicodin, which they recommend I take with Valium. None of it really deals with the pain, but the time just floats along, so things could be worse.
Jonathan Abrams writes some amazing oral histories. I loved the one about the Malice at the Palace. Their new basketball guy (Zach Lowe) is quite good, although their old one (Sebastian Pruiti, who got a job working for OKC) was possibly even better.
You could try for oxy.
My mom was in the hospital recently and they were sure she was drug seeking. But then she was desperate for more of that sweet, sweet nectar they had given her, what was it called... Motrin? They were less worried after that.
Agreed about Abrams. Zach Lowe has occasional bouts of McSweeneysitis that I find annoying. Pruiti was really good.
251: I think now that I'm home, I'm just going to forget it. Last night I wanted nothing more than to sleep, and the only way I was going to sleep was if they gave me something that would actually cut the pain. They wouldn't. So I didn't. I ended up walking the ward, totally stoned on Vicondin and Valium, but pretty miserable about the lack of sleep and the moaning stroke victim in the bed next door to mine. I finally got to sleep around 4:30 or 5. When my surgeon woke me at 6 to talk, I was 100% certain that he was somebody else for about ten minutes.
And then he left. Because he's a surgeon, and they're busy. Or maybe because he didn't think it was all that fruitful to talk to someone in my condition.
Glad you've made it home, VW, even if you are not as drug-addled as you'd like.
If you buy this, neb, you will never forget what an airboat is.
Is an airwolf like a flying fox?
Gawker with an excellent summary of the Kelley sisters, staying on top of the emerging story. Seems there is some kind of U.S. generals groupie scene. Real Housewives Of The U.S. Military.
Seems there is some kind of U.S. generals groupie scene.
Nooo! It's becoming too ridiculous for words.
The guy who wrote about Wimbledon was fantastic.
Brian Phillips? Brian Phillips is a goddamn genius. I mean, he wrote an entire fictional serial about his adventures playing a soccer management sim.
I like Grantland because I love Bill Simmons and will read pretty much anything he writes, particularly on the NBA. I even have that zillion-page NBA book he did. His pop culture shtick is getting increasingly tired and played out though. Very interested to see him on the ESPN NBA halftime show.
I can't stand Chuck Klosterman though, and Peirce is a bit of a pompous windbag. Seems like every week they have a couple of good non-Simmons pieces though. Plus, it's free.
Sebastian Pruiti was fantastic, shame he's gone. I miss his old nbaplaybook blog.
264: yeah, him. And since we're talking about journalism and blogging, I'm going to link to this piece about Russell Means, which I think is the best thing I've seen written about him.
Halford, watching Lakers/Spurs now. The Lakers look good, I think the only real question is whether Nash has much gas left in the tank (I suspect: no).
259: thank you. It's really good to be here. I'd like to be able to take a shower, but that's going to have to wait a couple of days. Still, it's easier being in pain at home than in the hospital. Plus, I don't have to deal with vending machines if I want something to eat (thank god Lesley agreed that installing that Automat was, no matter how hip, a bad idea).
267: PGD, not to pick another fight, but let's remember that you were the guy who insisted that Jeremy Lin would be the real deal, right? I guess my point is that we won't know how much gas Steve Nash has left in the tank until the final two weeks of the season and then the playoffs.
I'm in the LA region and the Lakers game is blocked on NBAtv and there doesn't seem to be a local alternative. I thought the NBA didn't do local blackouts.
Well, even Daryl Morey, certified NBA genius fell victim to Linsanity. It was a heady time.
Should have known you would take the Nash thing personally, being Canadian and all.
The actual dumb thing about 267 was implying there was only one real question about the Lakers when expectations alone mean they have a ton. All I meant was that worries around the bad start were overdone -- this year's team is still mostly last year's team with Howard replacing Bynum and Nash/Duhon replacing Sessions. Last year's team was pretty good so this year's team must be pretty good+, although I doubt pretty good enough to win it all.
271: I don't know if they can win it all (Miami is a beast). I don't even know if they can win the West, though I think they can if they still healthy. My point was just that old teams don't start to play until the final 20 games of the regular season and then the playoffs. Given that, we won't know much of anything about Lakers for a long, long time.
209, 212: hi parsi! I can't imagine why she would need a ghostwriter. the jogging thing was real, but it was during the time she was researching her biography--she went to afghanistan and was embedded [no comment] with the soldiers immediately surrounding petraeus. she often went on his legendarily tough runs with him at 5am, just the two of them, and apparently there was some talk at the time, but it was something he had done with quite a few other reporters and legislators, male and female, as a way to build rapport. she is in the reserve forces but not serving and hasn't been for quite a while. he transferred back to...I would have thought virginia or DC but it seems like tampa what the hell? and she went back home after her interviewing was done. to...I dunno. if it's tampa, florida I think chris hayes twilight of the elites is true for reasons different than I originally imagined. this comment is belated as I had to go to work.
von wafer what the fucking fuck? people who get out of goddamn surgery need serious pain medication! what are they saving it for, when you die? I am so sorry that the stupid laws and general paranoia that someone might ever have a good time accidentally are denying you the medicine you fucking need to recover properly. feel better soon.
I have a vague feeling I hate chuck klosterman but now I can't think why, so I'm not sure.
I would have thought virginia or DC but it seems like tampa what the hell?
Tampa is the headquarters for CENTCOM, which is ultimately in control of all US military operations in the Middle East and Central Asia. That's presumably why all these generals were hanging out with the local socialites there.
I have a vague feeling I hate chuck klosterman but now I can't think why, so I'm not sure.
I didn't know there was any such thing as a Chuck Klsoterman until I read this piece he wrote comparing The Beatles and the Stones. I thought the conceit was very clever and linked to it approvingly at the placed where I used to blog. Neb Nosflow told me I was an idiot, which turned out to be right, because that piece is classic Chuck Klosterman: a conceit without content. Still, there are times that works for me.
And yes, I really don't get the Dilaudid thing. These people cut big chunks of my spine out of my back. Big chunks. Vicodin has never worked for me. It doesn't now. So why not give me what does? Are they that afraid that I'm going to sell my pills on the street? That seems like a silly fear, no? So what, then? What are they so worried about?
Hmm. Tampa is the headquarters for CENTCOM and Clearwater is the headquarters for Scientology. How does Central Florida not explode from the sheer concentration of craziness?
I disagree that we won't know "much" about the Lakers for a while -- last year's playoff team, which was just about as old (except for Nash obvs) had all of its flaws visible in the regular season, and the same was almost as true the year before, though no one expected that they would get mauled the way they did in Dallas. Obviously the key question is whether Nash will remain healthy through the playoffs, and whether DH will return to play at his former level, but we should get some pretty good information as to both as the season wears on. I'm not particularly concerned about regular season record, as long as we finish reasonably high in the West, but we'll know an awful lot about how they'll look as a playoff team. Totally agree with the piece I linked above that Jodie Meeks could be key this year and that Jamison could also be very important.
I'm pretty excited about D'Antoni and am really really glad they didn't go with the return of zombie Phil Jackson. But it's obviously a high-risk team with lots of injury and downside risk and, while I think we're probably co-favorites in the West even with that risk, I just don't see this team even at maximum health beating Miami. But that's why they play the games.
I'm going to be so pissed if I have to cancel my beloved DirectTV just in order to watch those games, though.
VW, you probably aren't up to going out, but there's probably a pain management center somewhere near you. Doctor shopping is a reasonable response to your treatment. The ones that advertise in your local alternative papers are a good bet.
Wait a minute, do I HAVE to get LeaguePass in order to watch the Lakers this year? I guess I do! This is a good thing.
Oh shit, that won't work either. AGGGH.
Wait, so what's the problem with the tv coverage?
281: I'm actually not in enough pain tonight to worry about it. 2 superVicodin and a Valium, and I should able to sleep well, even on my wounded back.
TWC just bought he Lakers coverage for a shit-ton of money, so they are very aggressively locally blacked out except on the TWC-owned network, and the shitspitting fuckmonkeys at DirectTV haven't yet cut a deal with TWC for coverage of the Lakers games. I'm 90% certain that they will soon, so I'm not giving up my beloved 600+ channels of TV yet, but I may eventually have to if the deal is not made.
Don't forget about Old Man Bourbon.
286: Ah, that explains it. No coverage on Dish, either. But I'm not really a Lakers fan, plus I'm hoping I'll be moving in the next month or two, so it doesn't bother me that much. Still annoying, though.
Obviously, in this case, the CIA and FBI already had the right to search Petraeus and General Allen's email without a warrant for security clearance purposes.
Word. I think some of the privacy concerns here are glossing over the fact that stuff you do on a govt. computer and/or govt. email is basically an open book. And yet, people conduct questionable personal business on the above mediums all the godamn time. That openness is a good thing but for christ's sakes my fellow minions of The Man, wise the fuck up and don't type one godamn word on that govt. box that you wouldn't want read live on CNN.
250 is right, that Malice in the Palace oral history was unbelievable. Probably the best piece of actual reporting I've ever read.
I think co-favorites in the west is a bit overstating things (I'm assuming you meant co with OKC). I'd certainly take SA over LA at even odds and maybe Minnesota. The LAL/LAC/Memphis is harder to rank, and if LAL is actually healthy in the playoffs I'd pick them to win their first round series among that bunch and then lose in the second round. Man, I'd love to see an LAL/LAC series, Paul against Howard at the rim over and over again.
Meanwhile, this Gawker comment hurtles down the ministry of defence ventilation shaft and bursts in the basement. laser guided: http://gawker.com/5960211/?post=54264503
239: That's crazy. They gave me that shit in the ER when I impaled my toe on a toothpick. (Me? Hated it.)
Hey Halford, I heard there are sites where you can stream games illegally...
289: Petraeus, at least, was using a special gmail account set up for the purpose, and I have seen no evidence he was communicating using a government computer.
Apparently they had a joint gmail account.
It's called Gmail for a reason
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This is kind of topical, but I just decided to reindex my mail client because search wasn't working right and it turns out I have 172,475 emails on this computer. I should either clean that up or do some analytics or both.
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As for as analytics go, just tell us what you need.
"For" s/b "far." We're too busy taking pics of our pecs to avoid typos.
Oh, I bet the FBI's archives of my email go way farther back.
289: Petraeus, at least, was using a special gmail account set up for the purpose, and I have seen no evidence he was communicating using a government computer.
I'll be amazed if he was that disciplined.
He's a very disciplined guy according to his biography.
Sure, disciplined when it comes to his physical fitness. But not disciplined when it came to banging his biographer and maybe giving her too much access to documents. I likewise doubt he never was accessing that gmail account from work/military computers.
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The great tumble in threes: Elmo, Petraeus and now the antivirus software kingpin
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If you think of all the biographers he didn't bang, he probably comes off more focused.
305: that thing with Elmo was a (really shitty) false accusation, you know.
305: FYI on the Elmo stuff. Accuser totally recanted. TMZ ruined a dude's life.
The great tumble in threes: Elmo
I think the accuser in that one has recanted.
310: Probably not life-ruining, given how fast it seems to be over.
That Mcafee article in 305 is nuts. Bath salts are not good for your brain.
But I'm talking about the emails Elmo himself sent to the overlooked Tampa triplet... er, yeah, busted, sorry, my horrible gossip newsfeed is badly backed up, I think. The Elmo puppeteer dude is entirely falsely accused and innocent.
314: Everybody still seems to think he did it. We'll see.
Mr Mcafee wasted 5 minutes of my life last night when I had to scrape his evil-shit program from where it had been preinstalled on my wife's new computer. So I hope they catch the bastard.
315: I think being John McAfee is not good for your brain. The bath salts are just a delightful accessory to that. (Also, does straight methcathinone really count as bath salts? I thought they usually had at least one other compound in there, and it was the combination that caused Serious Bad.)
Also if you're looking to get caught up on the McAfee saga these two articles give a good sense of the decline and fall.
Just before I heard about the Elmo thing, I was thinking about how rightwing authoritarians are so often caught up in child-abuse scandals, and that you'd never expect such a thing from someone involved in, say, the Children's Television Workshop.
291 -- care to make it interesting? I'll bet you two bets of $50, payable to charity of the winners choice, that the Lakers end up "ahead" of SA and Minnesota in this year's playoffs. That is, $50 Lakers beat SA in final playoff standings, $50 Lakers beat Minnesota. If they end up at the same level (eg lose in the same playoff round, all three don't make the playoffs) we push and each donate $25 to charity. "Seeding" doesn't matter -- eg if the Lakers and SA both lose to different teams in the Western Conference semis, thats a push. At your stated beliefs, this is a fantastic bet for you.
304 - How do you know he wasn't disciplined when banging his biographer? Broadwell sounds like she was GGG, so who are you to judge his peccadillos?
Here's The Saddest Detail So Far In The Petraeus Affair...
What if he loves SA and Minnesota but hates charity?
At your stated beliefs, this is a fantastic bet for you.
I'm not sure about this. Do his stated beliefs involve giving money to charity?
323: Could be that Mr. and Mrs. Broadwell have an arrangement that allows for dalliances. I'd be surprised if it went so far as to include outside activities of the intensity that apparently characterized the Petraeus affair, but people do make arrangements and work around these kinds of things.
167-171: FWIW, Bing asked me whether I meant Kelly or Kelley, but by default showed me images of both. I actually don't think I had realized that the comparable Google message was slightly different in its default action.
Although ISTM that, if I'm looking for an idiosyncratic spelling of an otherwise common search term, Google will default to the common one, assuming I've made an error.
I'm happy to do it as two straight up $50 bets, I'm just trying to appease all you do-gooders and ethicists.
This has probably already been covered in this long thread I have not read, but can someone explain why Petraeus resigned for having an affair? I don't get it. What's the big deal?
Short answer: Beats me. Uninformed speculation: (1) Well, it's a 'scandal' -- maybe he just thinks it'll get in the way of doing his job. (2) Adultery is a violation of the UMCJ -- possibly there's some way that applies to him despite the fact that he's retired now. Presumably they were having the affair while he was still in the Army, and so that counts as some kind of wrongdoing. (3) He's the head of the CIA; if they've got some explicit or implicit 'no guilty secrets that would allow blackmail' rule, he violated that -- this seems like the sort of thing he could have been blackmailed with.
330: As details continue to dribble out, this isn't going to be a fun experience for him, and it would be worse if he were obliged to, say, lead a federal agency and testify before Congress about controversial matters. He departs as a conservative hero; if he stayed, he'd be a liberal villain.
Or he didn't resign just because of the affair? It was the Director of National Intelligence who told Petraeus he had to resign, right? All these people know more than we do at this point, but the Kelleys and Khawams are super shady grifters with millions and millions of dollars of debt and weird, lame ties to foreign governments. And Petraeus was all up in their business.
(3) He's the head of the CIA; if they've got some explicit or implicit 'no guilty secrets that would allow blackmail' rule, he violated that -- this seems like the sort of thing he could have been blackmailed with.
That sort of makes sense, although it was no longer true the moment the scandal broke.
(I also suspect that if such a rule in fact exists, very many agents are breaking the rule.)
If he stayed the conservative media would be so mad that he insists on dragging out the saga and overshadowing the BENGHAZI HEARINGS instead of resigning quietly so he can focus on preparing for the BENGHAZI HEARINGS.
334: He wouldn't be resigning because he was vulnerable to blackmail anymore, he'd be resigning because he had committed wrongdoing by remaining Director of the CIA during a time when he knew he was vulnerable to blackmail.
My guess is, he did something seriously wrong and this is the way to get rid of him without causing a panic about what he actually did. I sound like Bob McManus here. I wouldn't venture to say what it was, as I have no idea.
millions and millions of dollars of debt and weird, lame ties to foreign governments
If I were reading history rather than blogs, this is where I'd guess the real scandal lied.
My mother believes that we assassinated Stevens, because he knew too much about American misconduct in Libya (I think that's why. Something along those lines). Taking that as a baseline, Petraeus got off easy.
I'd love to know what happened, but I guess the pragmatic thing is to thank Petraeus for his service and move on.
The FBI computers from Broadwell's house. There may have been issues of her having classified information she wasn't cleared to have.
339: For a second I thought you meant Ted Stevens, and I was like, there's no connection between those timelines!
So the affair didn't really happen? It's just a story they fabricated to get rid of him? And he agreed because it was that or be assassinated? And Bromwell was paid off for her "participation" in this schemel?
I guess that would explain why Petraeus's wife is going around on morning talk shows, saying she's "furious" about the affair, as if that were supposed to be news. She's part of the cover-up.
Petraeus's wife is the one who's really a member of the Illuminati. He's just a pretty face.
It's plausible to me that he fucked her and others while also doing the things that actually got him fired. Hey, at least he got fired. That's the main thing, right?
I'd think the story would be something more like "Yes the affair happened, but no one would have investigated or cared unless there were something bigger being covered up."
I don't really think that's true, though. This sounds like frivolous use of the surveillance state by shirtless-FBI-agent (how come everyone else gets their name spread all over the papers, and his privacy is being respected?) that just snowballed until it went public.
347 to 344 and agreeing with 346.
I am going to remain fascinated with this story at least until shirtless FBI guy shows up.
Seriously, the connection to the private sector development section of the CPA is just the icing on the cake for me. Those guys were the most delusional grifters of the entire bad lot, if I'm remembering my rumor-mongering correctly.
321: I would take that bet for SA ending up 'ahead' of the Lakers (but want no part of Minnesota). Based on last night, SA is still the better team but the gap is not as great as last year and could be closed by the return of Nash, improvement of Howard, D'Antoni, etc. The Lakers will definitely make it interesting but as currently constituted they just have too many holes for Popovich et al to pick at.
Semi-related, I just found out that a 76-year-old former english professor I had in college was beaten to death with a brick by a 30-year-old crack-cocaine addict with whom he was having a sexual relationship while tutoring her to help her try and get her GED. (It's interesting because he was a deeply conservative (though not religious) strict moralist.) She apologized for the incident and said he was a good friend. She's now in rehab.
I also think there's a lot more going on here than we know, but disagree that he'd not have been fired without it. Lower level CIA folks may be engaging in affairs, but if they get caught, and have not been following the rules (affairs are ok if disclosed to spouse and Agency) they're going to get fired. Clapper had to decide whether P brought anything to the CIA table worth bending a rule that they've not (I'd bet) been plenty willing to apply to other folks whenever. Answer: not very much. Indeed, his militarization of the CIA wouldn't have been universally popular even if he wasn't way over to the edge with it.
That is, I don't think he need to have done much more than alienate a bunch of career people to end up on the chopping block.
351 -- You're on! We have a $50 bet on Lakers/Spurs, charity donation to charity of winner's choice. UPETGI can still join in, too.
So, given what we know of the current administration, isn't it somewhat likely that Petraeus was asked to resign out of an excess of caution/surety that Obama would fire him as soon as he found out? That bus has run over some much less deserving people, after all.
352: Just rehab and not arrested?
352: she was sentenced to 6 years in prison. I assume that either starts after rehab or they are concurrent or something.
The point is she's getting help. At least in theory.
Six years is pretty good. I wonder what portion of the population has at least one person they would beat to death with a brick if they knew six years was all they'd get?
ICPSR's data archive is useless for that.
350.1: I am looking forward to seeing those pictures too. And mocking them, hopefully. Pleasepleaseplease be flexing and making a funny face!
Wait, so Broadwell sent an email to Allen telling him to be wary of Kelley?
Which Hallmark card says "I'm sorry I beat you to death with a brick"?
To be fair, he was old and frail, so it doesn't seem to have taken very many hits to the head with the brick to do him in.
(That's actually in the news report.)
Now that we've learned about Kelley, I would be happy to warn anyone against her.
Which Hallmark card says "I'm sorry I beat you to death with a brick"?
That's the one in the section for frustrated, weak people. You know, the "can't express myself directly" part.
Old people should be forced to wear visible warning labels describing how many brick hits they can take before succumbing. Reduces the chances of tragic misunderstandings.
"One brick to the hospital, three bricks to the morgue."
You know what reduces the chances of tragic misunderstandings best? Cryptic greeting cards.
Or just verbally communicate it, like Nancy Pelosi.
Definitely want the RWNJ shirtless L. Jean Lewis-wannabe outed. Government agencies are riddled with too many insane goobers. (Many left over from Bush--for instance for all I know Lewis is still chief of staff of the Pentagon Inspector General.)
The Los Angeles Lakers are objectively racist and Halford is objectively wrong about Pierce (for his non-sportswriting*) but LA gave a meg-shit ton of votes for Obama over the prick and made California governable again so both are forgiven.
*People are right that a lot of sports writing is better than other writing but people who talk about it are he most tiresome people in the world so I don't care what anyone thinks about anyone's sports writing other than just shut up already.
The Los Angeles Lakers are objectively racist
OK, white guy in a vest sweater in Boston Garden in 1986 who hates affirmative action.
Via Beyerstein:
Reason to fire P;
http://pecunium.wordpress.com/2012/11/13/petraeus-betrayal/
Oddly enough I once had a bet on exactly the same terms (though the payout was different, loser buys the winner tickets), Kings vs. Lakers 2002-3 season. It was a push on account of the Webber injury, but I still think it was a great bet (I almost collected even with that injury). But the lesson is that most such bets come down to injuries, so you should never be too confident.
I'm rethinking my Minnesota opinion, because they might not be healthy soon enough to get a good seed. You don't want to end up the 7 or 8 seed and risk hitting OKC. There's really no compelling reason in my mind to pick any of LAL/LAC/Memphis/Minnesota higher than the others. And if I'm making the bet based on fun, I'd rather go LAC vs. LAL.
I'll think about the bet. I feel like charity bets are for rich people, since you lose money either way. And I won't be rich for another year or two. Not that $50 really makes a difference, but my finances now are a bit complicated.
I'll happily take the same bet for the Clippers vs. Lakers, and make it a non-charity bet.
It's a shame that Ron Paul has retired, so I can't make Halford contribute to him. If I could win a bet on the Spurs against Steve Nash, and force a contribution to Ron Paul doing it, then I think I VWs head might actually explode.
378 is pretty interesting. The author completely buys into the Cult of Classification, though, which is an occupational hazard. As the DC Circuit reminded folks in Al Odah, the only information supposed to be classified secret is that "the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause serious damage to the national security that the original classification authority is able to identify or describe."
Serious damage. To the national security. How much such information was Broadwell exposed to? How much even exists?
My mother believes that we assassinated Stevens, because he knew too much about American misconduct in Libya
This is that "coffee, tea or blood in the streets" thing again. I like her.
381 -- don't worry, my "bash libertarians' heads in with a brick" charity will be 401(c)(3) compliant by playoff season, and will be expecting a donation.
Overclassifying is a major tool of authoritarian governance in the U.S. First, it makes everyone who works in foreign or defense policy subject to having their careers destroyed for even minor and non-criminal carelessness, which is a powerful tool to shut people up. Second, some in the Obama administration have apparently been trying to revive laws criminalizing leaking classified information or potentially even the publication of it along the lines of the Official Secrets Act. (I can't see any other way to claim that Wikileaks is criminal).
333: the Kelleys and Khawams are super shady grifters with millions and millions of dollars of debt and weird, lame ties to foreign governments
I've fallen behind on this news: ties to foreign governments? Does this mean just the lame-o "honorary consul" status of Kelley to South Korea?
Re: the elmo sex scandal.
I've read that some (borderline?) pedophiles will start grooming a young teen when they are underage, but not consumate the relationship until the person turns 18. Not technically illegal, and and can't imagine trying to rewrite the law to make it illegal, but I don't think nice thoughts about people who do that.
The story of Clash and his former accuser superficially fits that pattern. They met when he was underage, and had an affair later when the boy was grown. Of course, it could just be a coincidence. They happened to meet when he was younger, and then later hooked up as adults, with no grooming or creepiness. But maybe not.
Elvis groomed Priscilla something serious.
I do not understand what 387 is talking about. A "pedophile" "grooms" somebody to be a... consenting adult?
76-year-old former english professor I had in college was beaten to death with a brick by a 30-year-old crack-cocaine addict with whom he was having a sexual relationship while tutoring her to help her try and get her GED. (It's interesting because he was a deeply conservative (though not religious) strict moralist.)
Apparently not strict enough to refrain from tagging a crack whore less than half his age.
382 - Unannounced overseas travel plans for high-ranking officials are something she apparently was exposed to that do strike me as a legitimate national security concern.
When people still speculate that one is a "(borderline?) pedophile" precisely because you didn't have sex with an underaged person, I think we are safely in "ruined life" territory. Wonder if the poor bastard will get his job back.
389: As in the not-quite a pedophile uses the same grooming techniques to win over minor's trust that are used by full-blown pedophiles. But instead of using the trust to have a secret affair with the person while they are a minor, they wait until they are 18.
Of course, a lot of "grooming" techniques are simply things people do when they like someone. But alegedly these things are consciously used by pedophiles to manipulate young teens into sex. There are media reports on discussion forums where people trade PUA-style tips. That might just be media hysteria, though. I'm not going to look into it.
Just you wait, 'enry 'iggins English prof, just you wait!
You'll be sorry, but your tears'll be to late!
You'll be broke, and I'll have money;
Will I help you? Don't be funny!
That might just be media hysteria, though. I'm not going to look into it.
But you are willing to speculate that it is what was going on in this case?
387, 389: I think pedophile is a confusing term here -- someone who's attracted to post-pubescent teenagers isn't a pedophile. They may be a statutory rapist, depending on what they do about it and how old the teenagers are, but that's not pedophilia.
And I'm not sure what Sifu is confused about. An adult who develops an unconsummated but sexually charged relationship with a teenager below the age of consent, and then screws them, with their consent, the day they hit sixteen, probably hasn't broken the law, but I still think they've done something creepy and 'grooming' seems like the right word for it.
Oh, but I have no idea about the Elmo thing -- I wasn't intending to imply anything there. I don't even know if what seem to be the facts of the matter bear any resemblance to that kind of situation.
I mean, is the issue that attraction to somebody under the age of consent is per se pedophilia? Or that speaking to somebody under the age of consent to whom you are nonetheless attracted is per se pedophilia? Or that speaking to somebody under the age of consent to whom you are nonetheless attracted with the idea that maybe once they're over the age of consent you could date is per se pedophilia? Or what?
and then screws them, with their consent, the day they hit sixteen
Is this just hypothetically? Or are you saying that he screwed the kid when he turned 16?
399 before 397. (The facts of this situation do sorta matter, since rob was speculating about a particular man's life and motivations.)
I still think they've done something creepy and 'grooming' seems like the right word for it.
That was really all I was saying. I'm specifically imagining cases where the adult is consciously manipulating the child.
But you are willing to speculate that it is what was going on in this case?
All of my caveats were meant to emphasize that I knew that this was mere speculation. My thoughts have almost no support, but they also have almost no impact. I'm just gossiping on the internet.
Apparently TMZ accused him of sending "sexually charged" emails to the accuser well after the accuser turned 18. So does that count as being a pedophile?
I think the whole 'grooming' thing is creepy because it sexualizes all kinds of cross-generational friendliness. Surely only a vanishingly small fraction of people who take a kid to a ball game are pedophiles.
Or that speaking to somebody under the age of consent to whom you are nonetheless attracted with the idea that maybe once they're over the age of consent you could date is per se pedophilia?
This one, I'd call 'very likely to be the kind of conduct I consider creepy and strongly disapprove of'. Maybe not a per se rule, but pretty close. Your other rhetorical questions, I'm right with you.
404: okay, now we have a metric! So what is the evidence that this dude did anything like that?
Apparently TMZ accused him of sending "sexually charged" emails to the accuser well after the accuser turned 18. So does that count as being a pedophile?
No, sending sexually charged emails to someone over 18 is not being a pedophile. It is what the internet is for.
Eh, maybe I was wrong to speculate. Obviously the paranoid environment that has developed around pedophilia is destructive and I don't want to contribute to that.
Actually we should clarify a little more: what if he knew the guy before he turned 18, found him attractive, but had no interest in a sexual relationship because the guy was under the age of consent, and then, after the guy turned eighteen, realized that his prior reason for being uninterested in such a thing no longer applied? Would that be creepy?
Do we even know that they knew each other when the accuser was 16?
Or is that just some of the residue left over from the initial accusation?
Surely only a vanishingly small fraction of people who take a kid to a ball game are pedophiles.
You gotta look for little clues like "is the adult dressed like a scout master or priest?" Is "who's up for a ball game" followed by a wink or the phrase "in my pants?" Is the ball game taking place in a stadium? In a van? In a tent?
405: I have no idea, see 397. If it's true that Clash was friendly with the accuser when the accuser was underage, and they started having sex only a couple of years later, I still think that's pretty creepy, but honestly it'd be hard to come up with a relationship between a 47 year old and an 18-year-old that I wouldn't think was creepy.
it'd be hard to come up with a relationship between a 47 year old and an 18-year-old that I wouldn't think was creepy.
How about if he's helping the 18 year old get his GED?
Got me. I meant sexual relationship.
Obviously, I'm willing to be judgmental about all sorts of conduct I wouldn't want to be illegal.
412: Would you differentiate between a sexual and a romantic relationship? I'd find the latter creepier, I think, but I'm sure context matters a lot.
412.2: judgmental is one thing, but would you, for instance, fire them? What if they worked with (much, much younger) children?
Obviously, the true scandal is that our public servants allow any foreign dignitaries to be received by the cream of Tampa society.
I wasn't mentally differentiating there, but yeah, I'd probably find a sexual relationship less creepy the less romantic it was -- if the 18-year-old is looking for a one-night-stand, age of the other partner doesn't bother me particularly.
416 to 413.
414: Totally context-dependent. Again, I don't know a single thing about the details of the Elmo story.
412: Obviously, I'm willing to be judgmental about all sorts of conduct I wouldn't want to be illegal.
I see no reason why one shouldn't be. That's certainly part of a parent's job.
Got me. I meant sexual relationship.
I was just making a joke off of that english professor story above. I see that stuff all the time. Inevitably the relationship is always about "getting her off the streets", "helping her get her GED", etc. Never does it seem to end with "I refused to let her suck my dick and instead drove her straight to drug rehab and wrote the check to get her enrolled in the program."
I think my office would be a lot more fun if we had unpaid social liaisons hanging around.
Never does it seem to end with "I refused to let her suck my dick and instead drove her straight to drug rehab and wrote the check to get her enrolled in the program."
Perhaps your failure to observe this could be the result of selection bias?
From what I've read, the Elmo case is quite creepy, but you've got to draw a line somewhere for age of consent, and I'm not inclined to see it above eighteen. Not creepy would be an eighteen year old who for some reason decided some way older man or woman they don't have a pre-existing relationship with is someone they want to fuck and take the initiative on that. I'd imagine the most common version of that would be starfucking. I'm not particularly worried about or disturbed by some nineteen year old fucking the middle aged actor or actress sex symbol they'd spent tons of time fantasizing about while growing up.
I'm not particularly worried about or disturbed by some nineteen year old fucking the middle aged actor or actress sex symbol they'd spent tons of time fantasizing about while growing up.
In fact I'm downright jealous.
422
Can I have your autograph?
He said to the
Fat blonde actress
I'd imagine the most common version of that would be starfucking.
This seems like one of those Bayesian statistics problems -- while middle-aged-stars are probably much likelier to have sex with hot 19-year-olds than other middle-aged people, there aren't that many stars out there. I would guess that most 19-year-old/middle-aged sex involves no stars whatsoever.
there aren't that many stars out there
WRONG
IN THE FUTURE EVERYONE WILL FUCK A STAR FOR 15 MINUTES.
Didn't one of the Congressional page scandals involve stuff similar to 387?
I just looked up the Vegas odds and what UPETGI (especially) should do is lay some Vegas money down on Memphis or Minnesota. Minnesota is a 50-1 shot to win the Western Conference, and Memphis a 15-1. A $20 bet on each would seem worth it if you think MN ($1000 payout!) and Memphis are even shots with the Lakers. San Antonio is at 7/2; the Lakers are at 8/5 to win the West.
I'm actually a little bit tempted to lay down a Memphis or Minnesota bet at those odds.
Wow -- the Thunder have excellent odds given that they are the defending champs. Surprised LA is the favorite over them. I think the way to beat the Spurs is just to blow them out of the gym with youth and athleticism, OKC can do that and I don't think LA can.
A shame you can't make Vegas bets without visiting Vegas.
The Vegas lines do generally overrate LA teams because there's enough Southern California fan betting to cause bookies to move the lines. But only pretty slightly.
Clash's ("Elmo's") accuser has recanted, by the way.
I've been wondering when there'd be a story about Kelley at the RNC. And here we are:trying to cash in on her close relationship with Gen. P. http://www.voanews.com/content/woman-at-center-of-petraeus-scandal-is-south-korea-honorary-consul/1545223.html
Wow -- the Thunder have excellent odds given that they are the defending champs.
You have to factor in the chance of a Kevin Martin injury. I tend to think the trade was a good one for them, but Martin has not been durable the last couple of seasons.
(Side note, right now the Thunder only have 4 players averaging over 5.6 points/game. I was surprised to see that their 5th highest scorer was that low.)
A shame you can't make Vegas bets without visiting Vegas.
Each of the last few seasons I've be tempted to make a couple of bets, but then decide that it isn't worth figuring out a way to do so.
If there was an easy way to make vegas bets online I would put some (small) amount of money on the NBA.
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Wow, Repubs shopping hard at the jerk store today. Led by El Romnero himself.
"With regards to the young people, for instance, a forgiveness of college loan interest, was a big gift," he said. "Free contraceptives were very big with young college-aged women. And then, finally, Obamacare also made a difference for them, because as you know, anybody now 26 years of age and younger was now going to be part of their parents' plan, and that was a big gift to young people. They turned out in large numbers, a larger share in this election even than in 2008."
The president's health care plan, he added, was also a useful tool in mobilizing African-American and Hispanic voters. Though Mr. Romney won the white vote with 59 percent, according to exit polls, minorities coalesced around the president in overwhelming numbers -- 93 percent of blacks and 71 percent of Hispanics voted to re-elect Mr. Obama.
"You can imagine for somebody making $25,000 or $30,000 or $35,000 a year, being told you're now going to get free health care, particularly if you don't have it, getting free health care worth, what, $10,000 per family, in perpetuity, I mean, this is huge," he said. "Likewise with Hispanic voters, free health care was a big plus. But in addition with regards to Hispanic voters, the amnesty for children of illegals, the so-called Dream Act kids, was a huge plus for that voting group."And what comedians the Times writers can be
Still, Mr. Romney, ever the data-driven former consultant, offered a brief post-mortem analysis of where he and his campaign had fallen short. Last Wednesday and Thursday, he had convened informal what-went-wrong sessions in his Boston headquarters, where he and a small team of senior advisers pored over the numbers with Mr. Newhouse. [emphasis added]Or maybe, you know, they couls have used a "web" browser to go to any of a half-dozen publicly-available websites with a summary of every motherfucking public poll in existence. Supposedly the NYT has one.
"Data-driven former consultant" is the new "dick".
And back to the OP. shirtless FBI guy identified as Frederick W. Humphries II.
In May 2010, after he had moved to the Tampa field office, Mr. Humphries was attacked outside the gate of MacDill Air Force Base by a disturbed knife-wielding man. He fatally shot the man, and the shooting was later ruled to be an appropriate use of force, according to bureau records and colleagues.
Two former law enforcement colleagues said Mr. Humphries was a solid agent with experience in counterterrorism, conservative political views and a reputation for aggressiveness.He apparently was part of breaking up the millenium plot.
"data-driven" my fucking ass, though.
442: a solid agent with experience in counterterrorism, conservative political views and a reputation for aggressiveness.
IOW: total freak-a-leek.
From the first paragraph of the NYT article:
a "hard-charging" veteran counterterrorism investigator who used his command of French in investigating the foiled "millennium" terrorist plot in 1999, colleagues said on Wednesday.He had a command ... of French!
The photo is also priceless.
The photo is also priceless.
Mekon head!
Command of language.
'When I use a word,' Frederick W. Humphries II said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.'
'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'
'The question is,' said the hard-charging FBI agent, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
He had a command ... of French!
IYKWIMAIT Ms Kelley Does.
The guy offering trillions in tax cuts for billionaires didn't offer enough.
Shirtless FBI guy's name is Fred. Heh. Fred. NTTAWWT.
OT: Does anyone have experience with the taking of allergy medication, i.e. Zyrtec, specifically for hives? I've developed hives (ew, and ouch) from a tetracycline for lyme disease, and boy baby it sucks. On the Zyrtec, though, just how drowsy does it make you? I've never really taken allergy medicines before.
Also the guy offering to exempt people over 55 from the Medicare austerity he and the boy wonder are certain is required.
A lot of damn gall complaining about bribery.
454: Christ, what an asshole's asshole.
And Ryan going on about the "urban vote".
Shirtless dude had been stationed in Seattle, so probably why he contacted Reichert (R-WA).
Hereafter "shirtless in Seattle".
The final lines of the NYT article on this are priceless.
On Wednesday afternoon, a man standing in the driveway of Mr. Humphries's home who appeared to be him said, in response to questions from a reporter for The New York Times, that his first name was not Fred. The man then walked into the house, closed the front door and did not respond to the door bell's being rung several times.
My name's not Fred! My name is not Fred!
This is mean, of course. There is nothing wrong with the name "Fred."
I begin to think the Tampa crowd were a bunch of swingers.
You must be looking for my twin brother. I am Freduardo.
That particular "Fred" is often shirtless
Shorter Mitt: Obama cheated by doing his job and improving people's lives- fuck that shit.
460 is funny.
Meanwhile, Paula Broadwell and Jill Kelley are being thrown under the bus, at least as far as their security clearances and/or special status of sorts are concerned.
463: not "people". Special interests! Like non-white people, and people under thirty!
Sorry, non-white special interests, and special interests under thirty. Also, lady special interests.
So far we don't have proof that Jill Kelley has done anything wrong, other than be an awful, awful person, which was hardly a secret. Paula Broadwell's clearance should definitely be suspended.
467: false claims of inviolability? I bet that's against the law somehow or other.
WTF is he calling himself Frederick W. Humphries II for? He isn't a sequel. If you've got the same name as your dad, you're Junior. If you, your dad, and your grandpa all have the same name, you can sport the roman-numeral III, but no roman numerals before then.
Parsimon, I don't think Zyrtec has typically made me very drowsy. I know it wasn't strong enough to make a difference when Mara had hives and the doctor recommnded Benadryl for more immdiate relief. That definitely causes drowsiness for most people but can also lead to agitation instead.
Frederick W. Humphries II: Electric Boogalumphries
WHO ARE YOU CALLING JUNIOR, SONNY?
469: I *think* that you are a II if you have the same name as your grandfather but not your father?
Kelley hasn't clearly done anything wrong per se, but I don't see why she should have had unescorted access to MacDill Air Force Base.* I'm an Air Force brat myself, and access to the base isn't supposed to be handed out to any socialite who comes along. I'm surprised that I say that, but there it is.
Is it clear that Broadwell has violated the terms (or whatever) of her security clearance? I've begun to lose track of all this. Perhaps the classified documents found on her computer were beyond her pay grade, in which case, sure.
* I gather there's a "Friends of MacDill" program.
463: That piece in the Globe was too much. My BF e-mailed that to me with the subject heading "Romney can't keep his mouth shut."
469: I *think* that you are a II if you have the same name as your grandfather but not your father?
I share this (somewhat shaky) belief!
470: Thanks, Thorn. I'm just trying to keep the possible side effects of things straight, and timing the taking of medications. My doc seemed to think I should take the drowsiness effect of Zyrtec seriously, do not take until you get home in the evening, etc. My system's messed up at the moment with allergic reaction, so I don't want to tax it any more than necessary.
476- Not just the whining but the specific things he cites are totally valid policy goals, it's not like Obama was sending all the kids free XBoxes or something:
With regards to the young people, for instance, a forgiveness of college loan interest, was a big gift. Free contraceptives were very big with young college-aged women. And then, finally, Obamacare also made a difference for them, because as you know, anybody now 26 years of age and younger was now going to be part of their parents' plan, and that was a big gift to young people. They turned out in large numbers, a larger share in this election even than in 2008.
453: I've not noticed drowsiness with Zyrtec either.
479: A big gift to young people... from their parents, maybe. They didn't just start making the insurance for early 20-somethings free.
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Okay, this is starting to get eerie. I just received my SEVENTH mystery call on my cell phone today. (I get an average of four calls a week, ordinarily, all from the same five people.) The first two mystery calls, I actually answered, as they were from my general area code. Nobody on the other end, so I hung up. One of the calls went so far as to leave blank air on my voice mail. I don't owe anybody money, and the calls are coming from all over the country--New York, Oregon, Alabama. A google search on my cell phone number doesn't show anything odd, like my number's being attached to a complaint line or something. If this continues, I will be very annoyed. Oh hai, that makes eight.
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Er, I'll make a statement about deer ticks while I've raised the topic. For those in deer tick country, if you find one on yourself, do save the tick once you remove it. Most of us know this (but I wasn't thinking at the time).
Put the tick on a piece of white paper, with a piece of clear tape over it. Medical personnel can test the tick for lyme disease. If it's clean, you don't have to be treated - yay. If you didn't save it, so the situation is unclear, and the site of the tick bite forms a nice red circle around it (uh-oh), you do have to be treated, and principal treatment -- tetracyclines -- are notorious for drug interactions with any other medication you're taking, which is an undesirable situation. So save the tick.
Only bother if it's been on for at least 36 hours. Can't transmit in less than that. Not all cases have the red rash either. Other diseases besides Lyme also possible (Babesiosis, HGE) that have different progression. Sorry for the pedantry, my mom's a Lyme researcher, this was all drilled into my brain as a child.
Plus it's much more satisfying to burn them alive in a candle flame.
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And now nine, this time from Wisconsin. What the hell is this?
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Maybe it's like license plate bingo, you need to collect calls from all 50 states to win.
486:
My wife and I have had an uptick in robocall spam lately as well. We're on Verizon. Not sure if they've been compromised or maybe it's some other database like Amazon that's been hit?
It weirds me out that I actually answered the first couple of calls, and nobody was there. And most robocalls don't leave blank air messages. I'm on t-mobile. And today is really the first time this has happened to me.
483, 486 The calls are coming from inside the country!
485: Wait, only bother if the tick has been on the leg for at least 36 hours? But ... so if the tick was on for at most, say 12 hours, and there's a red ring, not just a rash but the clearest red ring target-looking like thing you can imagine, around the tick bite, still don't bother?
That's the corker about all this -- I probably don't even have Lyme disease. The target ring has dissolved to a solid dime-sized spot of pink. Can I stop taking 3 weeks of harsh medications now? Not according to the doctor. My skin it itching like you wouldn't believe, so I guess the silver lining is that now I know I'm allergic to tetracyclines.
489: Have you Googled the numbers that have called?
Nothing obvious on google from NUMBER TEN, from Idaho. Just a bunch of people filing the number on those "who called me?" websites.
Sometimes you have to scroll down a bit on those websites to find a likely culprit. But still, 9 calls each from completely different states? Are you sure you're not being trolled by the Unfoggedtariat?
469: I *think* that you are a II if you have the same name as your grandfather but not your father?
This is true. My brother is a II, named after our grandfather.
12 hours, no way. And the ring wouldn't show up in 12 hours, I think it's rare for it to even show up while the tick is still there (CDC says 3-30 days post bite http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/signs_symptoms/)
*do not take medical advice from random people on the Internet.
Why are the conspiracy theorists so shocked that the Petraeus sex scandal came after the erection?
I have a collection of John Collier stories, Fancies and Goodnights. They amuse. But let's face it, John isn't half the Collier Graham is.
472, 473: So Pope John Paul II's grandfather was named Pope John Paul?
496: I'm not.
Hm, I think we're talking at cross-purposes. I had a tick on my leg which had been there for maybe about 12 hours -- possibly more without my noticing. A few hours after I removed it, the spot began to show a red ring. By the next morning, the red ring was quite pronounced, so I called my doctor.
It was like this, top picture. So, okay, looks like a possible Lyme disease sitaution, and "don't bother" wouldn't be an option, much as I wish that it had been.
Fun fact: Pope John Paul II was his own grandpa.
When I was little I thought that the first successful moon mission was "Apollo II", i.e. that we'd done it on the second, rather than the eleventh, try. It took me several perplexed years from learning about it, to realizing that those weren't Roman numerals after all.
Two. Exactly. One louder.
I thought Vatican II was a pope.
Just now catching up on the thread:
This is why everybody should be using public key encryption for everything!
I know you had "dopey cypherpunk" tags here, Sifu, but are there recommended user-friendly ways of doing this? It seems fundamentally incompatible with using Gmail's search functionality, right?
489 etc: you're on the Do Not Call Registry, right? You can also file complaints at that website. Doubt it does anything, but it's kind of satisfying.
475.2 -- No, you can't have classified stuff at your house in any event.
469 etc: IMO if you and your father have the same name as your grandfather you may end up being II, accidentally, as it were, since the intention was, gdad dies, your dad becomes sr., you are jr., your dad kicks, etc., you exchange jr.'s and sr.'s in perpetuity. (for whatever reason my father's mother was "mrs. a. j. xxxxxx, jr." for all her long widowed life--I suppose he pre-deceased his father?) the canonical way in which one gets to be II is like my mom's dad: named after his uncle, exact same name. can't be jr. as he's not his son; needs some distinguishing features; thus: xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx II. but then his son was III rather than jr, and his IV, and his V until my cuz wussed out like a motherfucking little boy who just bragged he wasn't afraid of spiders, and then saw a spider, and he changed the kid's name. so wrong. he had accidentally chosen the greatest nickname ever for the kid: finn. it's slang for a fiver, like from an old detective novel, and he didn't even know that! so fine, just call him finn! my gdad was known as stibbs for much of his life, rather than 'stuyvie'. no, they changed his name for real at the courthouse. straight fucked up. I had trouble convincing husband x that the latter half of the neighborhood "bedford-xxxxxxxxxx' was a first name. we never had a son so the fight didn't happen. it's a fucking sweet name. but OMG shirtless FBI guy is seh. lame. you guys. I think his "worldview" is cramped, small, and narrow. maybe there's a photo?
My understanding is that there's some question about whether the documents Broadwell had in her possession had been declassified.
But that might be out of date; I haven't been keeping up with all the latest details.
510.last: Well, yeah, duh, in Alaska.
re: kids names
It's bloody hard choosing one, let me tell you. Especially if they need to be acceptable to families who speak different languages. I really like my Dad's name [euphonically] but buggered if we are using it, II or no.
yeah, buggered nattargcm II is honestly not the best name ever.
1: Also erm I thought Adventure Time was aimed at stoners? Like what's it, the Mighty Boosh.
I *think* that you are a II if you have the same name as your grandfather but not your father?
I DISAGREE.
If Z-Bo returns to 2011 form for the playoffs combined with Gasol's improvement they're a tough tough team. 15-to-1 does sound ok. 50-to-1 for Minnesota is definitely a steal. I'd say 2:1 OKC, 4:1 SAS, 8:1 the next 4.
yeah, buggered nattargcm II is honestly not the best name ever.
al, he's spelling his name backwards! He's really going to call his kid Deruggub. It's an old Welsh name, see. Pronounced "Derek".
515 Not a stoner. Love Adventure Time. So do my (8 & 10 year old) nephews. And their dad.
When you've lost Bobby Jindal ...
... you're a loser Presidential candidate that no one likes anymore and good luck even getting invited to the 2016 convention.
re: 518
Yeah, like in the wotsit, Dylan Thomas.
Ryan Lizza: "Fav. part of Romney phone call is his idea to create monthly newsletter for supporters. No word as to whether ORCA staff is gathering fax #s."
513. Kulpotavs (traditional name, holy crossbow, spelled backward). My folks' second choice for me was the unpronouncable-for-all foreigners Řehoř. I had considered Adhemar for my kid, rejected as too flaky. I managed expectations by telling all relatives that I was leaning towards Mustafa.
Wow, from the small photo on the front of NYT, Fred sure is a looker.
"Holy Crossbow" is a great name for a kid if slightly Monty Python.
It's pronounced "Westinghouse Crescent Hammer".
Rehor is a verb. It means "to whore again."
500- That doesn't sound like Lyme, more like an allergic reaction to the bite itself or something.
Speaking of mom's research, front page of NEJM today:
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1114362?query=featured_home
502: Blowhard American politicians regularly denounced Kim Jong Il as "Kim Jong the second."
re: 524
I kid not, Řehoř is our nickname for the bump [in a Hokey-Pokey, etc stylee]. For unpronouncability reasons. I can sort of say it most of the time, my 'Ř's are OK about 80% of the time if I don't think about them too much.
523: Now is the point when we find out ORCA was being sabotaged by Obama's dark data masters all along and the finish-line snafu was baked in to the cake from day one. You heard it here first. The ultimate false-flag operation. The real acronym is "Obama Returns to Conquer Amerikkka".
Natargacam you have a golden opportunity to create a child with one of those bizarre names usually only seen on Bond villains ("Gustav Graves", "Franz Sanchez"). Either name your son Zdeněk, or go with the wife's surname, whatever it is, and dub the child Lachlan Velkoborský.
McCain pissed that he is losing title of Most Reprehensible Losing Republican Presidential Candidate. Tries to make amends.
As luck would have it, the Senate Homeland Security Committee, which McCain is a member of, received a classified, closed-door briefing for nearly two hours yesterday [on Benghazi - JPS], receiving up-to-date information. What did McCain learn from the briefing? Nothing -- according to the Republican ranking member on the committee, McCain failed to show up....
According to a CNN report, McCain hosted his press conference demanding more information during the hearing in which he could have received more information.
531. Soundfile. Note that this is the last sound kids learn to pronounce, so it's completely feasible to do this and then have a 5-year old that can't really say his own name.
There must be analogous situations in other languages-- 鑫 is used in many personal name, no idea how many strokes, but definitely not in the tractable part of the dictionary. But that's writing. Maybe Cholmondely or Jacques-Enguerrand
one of those bizarre names usually only seen on Bond villains ("Gustav Graves", "Franz Sanchez").
Clearly you hate Bernardo O'Higgins, and therefore FREEDOM!
There's an analogous situation right here in America with a letter that looks superficially similar, the R. It's a sound found in almost no other major languages, and at my school at least there was a teacher for children with speech impediments whose duties also extended to kids who said "W" instead of "R".
Bernardo O'Higgins and his inverted counterpart, Éamonn de Valera.
"Teacher" may not be the right word. "Speech Therapist" maybe.
Pwned by 539. I love both those guys.
re: 536
If I get a chance I'll do a soundfile. My wife and her friends used to amuse themselves giving me Czech tongue twisters. I can't get the R-haceks every time, but I'm OK.
re: 534
Yeah, my wife's Dad's name is valsidaL. We amused ourselves a bit with valsidaL nattarGcM. We'd never burden the poor wee sod with that, though. A friend made the point that there'd be no doubting his parental origins.
And all those descendants of Scottish mercenaries who ended up as generals elsewhere: Prince Mikhail Bogdanovich Barclay, Marechal Etienne Jacques Macdonald, Admiral Aleksey Samiulovich Greig, etc.
And 17th-century Dutch-Brazilian pirate Moses Cohen Henriques.
Mlž, pln skvrn, ztvrdl, prskl.
This one doesn't look hard, but neuither does bugs' black blood.
Pštros s pštrosicí a pštrosáčaty šli do pštrosačárny.
Mara's real first name is three syllables, 8 letters, but not hard to get mostly right when you look at it. We hyphenated last names, so that's four more syllables, 12 more letters. Nia's real name is a four-syllable combo (2 or 3 names depending on how you look at it) name, 11 letters, unique enough that even the more phonetic spelling doesn't get any google hits, and it just seems cruel to add a long last name to it and yet there's no good alternative if we do end up adopting her. Our last names don't read white/ethnic enough that you get the Bernardo O'Higgins effect, though they both have recognizably black first names, but yikes.
The last one, is the one I used to occasionally struggle with. I've done that one before. It's more the rhythm and making it sound natural than the pronunciation or stumbling over the sounds.
542.2: I think that's a great name. From my perspective the real problem is that everyone would probably call him Laddy.
re: 548
Ladja [Lah-dya] would be the Czech dimunitive.
548, 549: By "real", of course, I meant in English-speaking countries.
I'd guess by the time little Bohuslav Jindrich starts school, there'll be half the class with Slavic names. West London is thick with Polish people, and other eastern/central European immigrants.
On the OP: Background on the initial message, supposedly sent from "Kelleypatrol":
It started in May with a spiteful email to the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan. An anonymous writer warned Gen. John Allen that a friend with whom he was meeting in Washington the following week was trouble and he should stay away from her.
Allen thought the email was a joke because he didn't know how anybody else would know about his personal plans with his friend, Florida socialite Jill Kelley, a person close to Kelley said.Washington, not Tampa, I will note.
Since this is the NBA thread, after watching the doubleheader last night and some previous games, Memphis and the Clippers are looking pretty great...Miami's defensive weaknesses are really being revealed...apparently playing smallball means you need to be at maximum intensity all the time to be effective. Wade has lost a big chunk of his athletic abilities, probably permanently. And man does OKC miss Harden. The NBA has so many great storylines over the last couple of years.
I had wanted to name O "Cosimo" but was vetoed. CA's last name is bog standard Scottish (think of the fellow who was Robby Burns' "jo"), but so common and deracinated that it wouldn't even have clanged up against Cosimo in a fun enough way.
Memphis and the Clippers are looking pretty great
I can root for Memphis, but I'm really skeptical that they will continue to shoot 3-pointers this well (currently 39.3% as a team -- 5th in the league). That's what's kept them from being an elite team the last couple of years (for that matter, I'm still skeptical that the Lakers have enough 3-point shooting for today's NBA).
Clay Shirky: "Republicans conclude it was Romney's fault: http://goo.gl/AAfZ0 It's a shame they didn't have a process for vetting alternative candidates"
I trust that you people have all already seen the shirtless FBI dude's shirtless picture in question? It is toolish in a slightly different way than I'd expected.
