Allow me to be the first to suggest Boston.

Allow me to be the second to second Boston.

Baltimore's easier for me than Pittsburgh, and my guess is that there are a lot more people for whom that's true than the reverse. But I bow to the wisdom of the collective.

Allow me to be the first to suggest Portland. C'mon, you've seen it on TV, so why not experience the real thing? Plus, Emerson.

Then who is the first to second Boston?

Pittsburgh would be a shorter flight for me but, checking flight times, is only a little bit faster.

I heart Pittsburgh, but Baltimore seems preferable logistics-wise. (Also, the Baltimore Museum of Industry!)

I'll second Portland (even though I know it won't happen).

Baltimore. What was the proposed date?

Memorial Day Weekend.

Allow be to be the first to suggest that this be a weekend other than Memorial Day.

Really?

Baltimore over Pittsburgh, really.

Um, I typed that "YA RLY" before I read your "O RLY?"

I'm there no matter what, but Baltimore would be easiest for me.

Also The American Visionary Art Museum.

I've heard tell that San Francisco is a beautiful city, filled with excellent restaurants and fun things to do. Added bonus: Smearcase could live-blog his train journey across the United States.

JM and I each have a conflicting family obligation that will prevent our attending that weekend. I would have expected that the holiday weekend would make conflicts more likely for others as well, but perhaps not. Anyway, we'd happily take a day off from work and travel on another weekend, but if it's only our issue, enjoy yourselves.

Also, wasn't there some concern about a large bike event in Baltimore that weekend?

Ok, weigh in also on Memorial Day Weekend vs a nearby weekend.

Oh but Von Wafer's liveblogging of his flight back east, since he still makes use of the dread conveyance of the air despite its obvious violation of the sanctity of traditional gravity, will be far more entertaining.

Also I'm spending a large chunk of February on trains so I will probably be somewhat over them for a while.

Wait, JM and Blandings are an item? Wowzers, I guess I need to pay better attention! A probably very belated w00t!

It's 9 days before my due date, and notwithstanding the tendency of first pregnancies to to go long, I don't think we'll be making a many-hour road trip. And no carrier would let me fly.

I am game for either city.
It does not matter to me if it is Mem. Day Weekend or not.

In the parlance of the tabloids: blackmormon.

19: didn't people have the opportunity so to weight before? If no boundaries are set we'll never get anywhere.

22: On the other hand, think of delivering at Unfoggety-dodecahedron. It'd be epic. I don't think we have any doctors likely to show up, but plenty of people qualified to sue someone for you.

25: They did, last summer, and the main consensus was Memorial Day over MLK day. But given that May-ish is set, and I doubt people will actually coalesce around a 2 day weekend, I figured we were still far enough out to open the question.

I don't think we have any doctors likely to show up

I can be surrounded by a circle of experienced and supportive women, who will then ignore me as an heated argument breaks out about the best way to give birth.

I like Baltimore for the airfare. (On which subject, we'd better firm it up soon because fares will start going up for Memday.)

"Can you keep it down over there? It's really hard to have a validating discussion about our experiences with you making all that noise."

Ogged already bought his ticket, but he's planning on being sick.

Palm Springs sex grotto is still available.

Ok, this is definitely going to be assholish, but: why not just do it in NY? You have a critical mass of people there and it's easy to get to since all roads lead to Rome. It can't be too hard to find a venue or party space. I know accommodation is expensive (but maybe less than people think?) and part of the idea was to get a place where people could stay, but I'm sure you could arrange a few room shares through VRBO or whatever, and how many people were planning on sleeping in the house or whatever?

For me Memorial weekend is tough, since I'll be having three "fun" weekend trips to the Midwest or East Coast at around that time. But I will do what I can to be there.

(Boston would probably work for critical mass reasons, too, although really fuck Boston)

I suspect the main reason against NY is that we're by and large a mostly private, introverted group, and people want an affordable hotel room to disappear to and be away from everybody, so that they can check Unfogged in peace and quiet.

In NY, people will end up couch-surfing or spending a lot of money, both of which are an anathema to this crowd.

I'd worry about people who didn't have someone's floor to sleep on being priced out of the hotel market -- rooms are really expensive. And New Yorkers don't tend to have guest rooms; while there are a lot of us, we aren't much use at putting people up.

The houses in Baltimore that I was looking at were mostly 3 bedrooms. I figured I'd take one with the baby, and two rooms would be available for people looking to do the trip as cheaply as possible.

We're good for Memorial Day or any weekend in May.

Ixnay on Ewnay Orkyay.

There are some nice hostels in Manhattan. But really, my cows object to all this rejiggering.

39: Think of this as soothing the squeaking wheels before we confirm Memorial Day 2013, in Baltimore, which it seems like is the natural resting place.

I concur with 21.

I guess I was thinking air bnb or the other homeshare sites (now banned in NY?) had made it cheap enough to find a place to stay in NY. Are Baltimore hotels really going to be that much cheaper? And AFAIK there is no one but Parsi actually in BMore.

Someone needs to tell JRoth, Cosma, and Moby to stop working on the sex grottoes, though.

Let me tell you about the extent to which I do not have a guest room.

|| Wolverines!! |>

I don't stay in hotels very often. I would expect a cheapish hotel room in Baltimore to be under $100/night, and a cheapish hotel room in NY to be more like $200/night, and a lot harder to find.

I've heard tell that San Francisco is a beautiful city, filled with excellent restaurants and fun things to do.

You're hurting me.

Or at least, I don't pay for the hotels I stay in, since they're usually for conferences, with discount rates that get passed on to Heebie U. Or it's for someone's wedding, where you didn't really get to shop around because that's where the reception is.

42: But D.C. is a 45-minute drive from Baltimore and there's train service. Also, BWI has a lot of SW flights.

21, 41: clearly, some people need to do a better job monitoring the flickr pool.

It's not just the price of hotel rooms in NYC, it's the price of food and drinks, and the pain-in-the-assness of getting around, esp. to & from the airport.

51: To and from the airport is easy! So is getting around! Menteuse!

Or, you know, we could just do it in Annapolis? Just everyone look super cute and you'll have no trouble finding a dorm room to return to.

And renting a space in NY would be for a few hours, for the party, as opposed to a central location for people to congregate all weekend long.

And renting a space in NY would be for a few hours, for the party, as opposed to a central location for people to congregate all weekend long.

I think that's a really important consideration. As I've said, if I'm going to fly from the West Coast, I would like to know there's going to be a place to go and hang out with people over the weekend, not just one night of partying.

I once saw a documentary about a man who was hung for using salsa made in New York City. I've been afraid to go there ever since.

I'm just trying to think of ways to maximize attendance. Also being a dick.

OTOH, it feels good to give a woman what she's been longing for, and I kinda like the streets of Baltimore.

I love New York.

BUT, I support this being in Baltimore over Memorial Day weekend.

Charm City here we come.

Lady came from Baltimore, all she wore was lace.

If the West African coup is still on, Baltimore has the advantage that plenty of trans Atlantic shipping runs out of the port.

Given that the shuttle bus for my university was robbed at gunpoint the night before last, I can provide some solid suggestions on which parts of the city not to rent a house in.

halford's got a wife and kids in Baltimore(, Jack.)

52: Eh, it's a schlep with bags and bus and train changes, though it's really dealing with the crowds and delays at the airports that's annoying. And getting around is easy in many respects -- believe you me I'm a tremendous fan of the subway -- but finding places where a crowd of us could get together and then getting a gaggle of out-of-towners there is a hassle.

60: want to email me?

Horrible thought. I bet there are Wire tours. Worse, self-guided ones.

We'll be there if it's in Pittsburgh, barring unforeseen circumstances. We probably won't if it's not. Last time around Cosma made some pretty promises about his big, pretty house, I think, if we opted for Pittsburgh.

I would like to know there's going to be a place to go and hang out with people over the weekend, not just one night of partying.

Definitely.

For the appetizer, we'll need two tons of bread crumbs, 1.5 of Parmesan cheese, and a harpoon or something.

There are some nice hostels in Manhattan.

Indeed. For future use, there two European-style hotels that are $100-120/night that I recommend. Small rooms and shared bathrooms, but clean, quiet & great locations. I've stayed at the one near Union Square a few times.

- Hotel 17 at E. 17th & 2nd Ave.
- Hotel 31 at 31st & Lex.

I too, did not know that Blandings and Jackmormon were a thing. Congrats. I like to think of this blog as a uniter, not a divider.

68: Hah. The first of those is two blocks from my childhood apartment.

My YMCA has rooms with two bunk beds for $105 a night, i.e., $52.50 a person. The gym facilities are nice; I haven't been in the rooms.

68: Is one of those the hotel where Titanic survivors stayed?

45: ||Wolf!!|>

@63

Sure.

So I guess no one else remembers JM accidentally signing a comment as Blandings. Maybe I imagined that.

For a non-dating site with a small population of regulars, I think we've done very nicely in terms of facilitating relationships. (Sorry, Emerson.)

As before, count me in for the Palm Springs sex grotto. I'd love to haul out to an E.C. con, but I expect the eleven-week-old will get in the way.

You didn't imagine that.

I expect the eleven-week-old will get in the way

Not if you don't bring it.

75.--I've done it a few times. Once I had the management clear it up, once it was innocuous (but witty!), and at least once it was super, super identifying as coming from me and I just gave up.

And, er, hi everyone.

It's pretty easy to get around an eleven-week-old blocking the doorway.

super identifying as coming from me and I just gave up.

That's the one I remember (which is part of the reason I didn't think it was much of an indiscretion mentioning it now).

Gotta come to the meetups at Fresh Salt if you want to stay in the loop, people. (For once I'm not the last to know!)

"Blackmormon" is great. Jackings?

Blackmormon is my nom de rap.

Blume:

I can have my dad on standby to Facetime you through your delivery.

For certain values of "Face".

I was heading for that joke, and then thought, "No, poor taste." This should be a lesson to me not to restrain myself (other than when talking to coworkers, of course).

"No, poor taste."

God knows it's never stopped me.

I went back and read (what I thought was) the last thread on the topic, and it seemed to have been Pittsburgh vs. DC, which would explain why I was extra surprised by the Baltimore assertion.

EffacedTime!

So because you all hate the flyover states and I would like to meet the disembodied brains that Cosma stores in jars in his basement, I would like to propose a Pittsburgh meetup at some point this summer even if, as seems to be happening, the Memorial Day affair is moved to DC or the City that Bleeds.

I think someone should set up a quick web survey so that we can get real data on folks' preferences and hard constraints, which one of the computational optimizers here could then use to claim that Science requires what is most convenient for them.

I'm putting this glibly, but I think there's really something to it. It's easy to get a false "sense of the House" through skimming a thread. Plus, my Edx class was just covering optimization problems...

89: Me too. But I thought maybe Baltimore was maybe in the mix with DC from the last thread.

I'd probably be able to just take the train/bus to Baltimore/DC, but for Pittsburgh I'd need to do some more in advance planning. I might be visiting family that weekend, but it's still the best weekend for me as I wouldn't take time off work for this, given that I'll have just started work not long before.

I do want to visit Pittsburgh one of these days.

Agree with 92. We should have some real info on lots of people.

(Also, the lurkers support me in the Palm Springs sex grotto).

I must be a hotel snob. I used to stay in NYC hotels sometimes when I went up for the weekend from NJ, and usually anything I considered of reasonable quality was $200, if I was lucky. (If I was not lucky, I was priced out and took a late train back to NJ.)

In 1997 I stayed at some hotel with Portland Square in the title and it was a room barely large enough for a bed and there was a shared bathroom down the hall. It was fine, but not great. Less than $50 for the night with a Let's Go discount coupon.

It looks like there are a surprising number of places for $150/night or less in NY.

I tried to comment from my iphone earlier but I couldn't. I vote for Pittsburgh. I want to see JRoth's house.

Why does unfogged hate my iphone but is okay with my laptop?

97: I just went to the websites of several of those hotels and couldn't find rooms at the rates listed in the article. I guess maybe if unfoggedcon were going to be on a Tuesday in March?

Everyone could come camp out in Amherst, Va (south of Charlottesville) on June 22. I'm throwing a big party that weekend.

I'd like to do this without having to stay in a hotel room?

I'd like to do this without having to stay in a hotel room?

Camping it is!

It could be a hobo-themed meetup!

103: I crashed on somebody's couch at UnfoggeDCon 2. There was talk of renting a house and having some people who wanted to do it on the cheap stay there.

I also liked the idea of Nathan's family house in the country, but that's not really feasible.

97: Look, I'm fond of New York and it's the only place outside Boston I might plausibly show up to for this, but there's very little chance of actually getting a hotel there at those rates.

If you choose Amherst, there are hotels, bed & breakfast places, and Stanley's spacuous house. Plus camping!

Blume and sifu: I will have at least three ob/gyns present at my party.

Really. It is the perfect solution.

Plus wine. Lots of wine.

With a real survey, we could ask starting location (and thus actually price flights / trains), lurker/commenter status, intrinsic location preference independent of costs/time, hard budgets constraint on travel + lodging, time availability, willingness to share rooms, willingness to host (if living in a candidate city), then maximize (weighted) turnout... Perfect! Science! Someone do this.

Megan, here's another wolf story: http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/wolves-spotted-at-idaho-nuclear-complex/article_65624b10-59b3-11e2-90bd-0019bb2963f4.html

108: income, gun ownership, genital size, ...

Blume and sifu: I will have at least three ob/gyns present at my party.

If the baby's not out by then, we've got big problems.

And a big baby!

[Shudder.]

92: I think someone should set up a quick web survey so that we can get real data on folks' preferences and hard constraints

Ah, what's the use? Nosflow would just clog it with bot responses.

Personally, I have people to stay with (outside the foggetariat) in Gotham, the Pitt and maybe B'more. Flights from MSP to LGA are hella cheap right now, although only about $75-$100 cheaper than the other options. I dunno. Memorial Day presents no obstacles for me.

I live in NYC and it would be dreamy for me if it were in NYC and I am saying: there is no good way to do this in NYC.

I think it would be totally fine to set up a survey monkey thing. We could easily resolve all these possibilities by this weekend and lock things down. I was unlikely to do anything before this weekend anyway.

If it were in Pittsburg, I still think it would be good to rent a house, because does Cosma really want to be the central hangout all weekend long?

Email me if you're so awesome as to want to set up a survey. Figuring out which questions to ask seems like the type of thing I'd agonize over.

Radioactive wolves!!

Quick question for Sacto folks: What's the best transit option for getting from the Sacramento airport to downtown, and about how long will it take? Must arrive at destination by 10 a.m. on a weekday, so the length of time will determine the earliness of my flight. Assume that my work will pay for the transportation, so while cheap is good, cheapest is not necessary.

Unfoggedecasacramentocon maybe not a bad idea, depending upon the answer to the query above.

$40 bucks will get you a cab from the airport to downtown in about 14 minutes. There's an airport shuttle/van for usually around $20. For $2.50, you can take the Yolobus, which is actually very fast and direct but only comes once an hour.

I'm not sure that "you only live once" is the rubric under which I would like to have my mass transit needs provided.

perfect, thanks!

I'm afraid 115 is true, but I could put up three people, one of whom would get a loft bed featuring Empire Strikes Back sheets.

featuring Empire Strikes Back sheets

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo!

For Unfoggeddodecacon I'd prefer DC, followed by Baltimore, followed by NYC, followed by Pittsburgh. FWIW. I realize I haven't been too active here lately but I'll start paying my dues again, I promise. If it's in DC I can offer people at least one bed to sleep on and maybe more (although, realistically, probably just the one).

Wait, that should be Unfoggedecacon. My mistake.

117 - As seen in The Hobbit.

Figuring out which questions to ask seems like the type of thing I'd agonize over.

Income, sexual orientation, willingness to take a bullet for other commenters in the event of a mugging or spree shooting.

A warg ain't nothin' but a sandwich.

121: I defer to Megan on all things Sacramento but think you should allow yourself more than 14 minutes to get downtown from SAC. Also, note that baggage handling at SAC is often mind-bendingly slow (though not usually in the morning), so either carry on your bags (and risk pissing off heebie and Mme. Merle) or plan accordingly.

129. Thanks. There aren't that many flights in the morning so it looks like I'll have to catch an eye-bleedingly early one if I'm to make my meeting. I won't have any checked luggage -- I'm taking just papers and files, and nary a spare underpant.

120 is great.

Oh, Baltimore. Man it's horrible.

120 really is great.

Oh, 14 minutes is just driving time between the airport and downtown. If you need to maneuver around downtown, it'll take you longer. Allotting half an hour for the trip would be comfortable on both ends.

I can't speak to baggage unloading at the new terminal.

I'll put in a vote for whatever's most convenient for someone arriving from outside the States. Which is probably the same as whatever's most convenient for New Yorkers, since I that's where I'll be staying for the rest of my trip.

Let me be the first to suggest Elgin, ND, where we could buy plenty of space for this and all future Unfoggedycons.

I'd prefer DC/Baltimore/East Coast on not-Memorial Day Weekend (have a family reunion/memorial service in the Midwest).

Has Elgin, ND real estate been immune to the rest of the state's natural gas boom? I hear tell on the NPR you can't get a spot to unfurl your bedroll between the toaster and the radiator for less than $1000/month. Or something.

Elgin, NE has cheap real estate plus a vetch festival.

OT, my wife just made fun of Natilo for employing "cow-orkers" at the other place.

138: We probably can't afford Williston, but Elgin should be fine.

Among notable people from Williston listed on Wikipedia:

Larry Bergh, selected by the Chicago Bulls in the 1969 NBA draft, but never played

140: Like!

141: ehrmahgerd, Bergh.

If it's in Elgin, I'll lose my marbles.

I can't do Memorial Day, but I love me some Baltimore. The Orioles will be in town the weekend of the 18-19. Just saying.

Okay, SurveyMonkey doesn't seem to actually let you download the underlying data, but Google seems to.

What are relevant questions to ask? So far I'm thinking:
1. Lurker or commenter?
2. Where are you coming from (in order to calculate transportation data)?
3. How much is the most you're willing to pay for transportation (round-trip)?
4. How many hours are you willing to spend each way getting there?
5. Which lodging options would be acceptable? Own hotel room; shared hotel room; own room in a shared party house; shared room in a giant party house; free or cheap crashing with a local Mineshaft dweller; self-arranged visit with non-Mineshaft friends/family.
6. How much are you willing to pay for lodging?
7. If you trust our algorithm for calculating this stuff, how much are you willing to pay, total (in which case 3 and 6 are ignored)?
8. If you live in location X/Y, are you willing and able to host people? How many?
9. Independent of the issues mentioned above, do you have a strong preference for locations X, Y, &c.? Are you flatly unwilling to go to X, Y, &c.?

Anything else? I've never actually solved a problem like this in practice, so I'm not sure exactly how to best make it tractable; my sense is that we're looking to fish for respondents' minimal-acceptability conditions, and then maximizing turnout (possibly weighted towards commenters) based on that.

Stanley's spacuous house

My house is like thirty goddamn spacuous.

Oh, and obviously:

10. What weekends are not possible for you? (Possibly conditioned by location.)

And I guess:
11. How many people are you?

I think that federal guidelines prohibit the asking of the first question in 146.

I have heard that there's at least one fantastic farmer's market in Baltimore.

You don't want to do something simpler, like making people rank a small set of proposed cities, plus something about what kind of lodging they want if they are going to a city where they don't already have something lined up?

12. If road-tripping with other commenters, are you willing to stop for:

a) historical markers
b) hot springs
c) food
d) urination
e) none of the above

152: If you pack a lunch, and if the hot springs have a historical marker, you can take care of (a) through (d) with a single stop.

What's the funniest thing to draw on a dollar bill?
1. moustache
2. dicks
3. little doodly things
4. how dare you.

Approval voting should solve this, right?

Who wants to sex Mutombo?
A) Yes.

The problem with this is you aren't going to get at people's real preferences because there's no cost. Better would be to plan to have unfoggedecadeacon at all of the possible locations simultaneously and then analyze turnout after-the-fact to figure out which was the real one.

151: trapnel probably wants, in his heart of hearts, to do something really simple (I'll let you guess what it is) to determine where to hold it, but I'm not surprised that given the (notional) opportunity to collect data he's going all out.

Agreed with rfts in 151. Several of the questions in 146 seem to assume that the person sifting through all the responses is going to do web searches to find transportation costs from various cities. I don't think anyone wants to sign up for that.

I think that federal guidelines prohibit the asking of the first question in 146.

What are relevant questions to ask?

Also, we should all rank how much we want to meet other commenters and then rate possible locations by the total commenter-satisfaction of their projected attendance.

I feel like not all of you are treating this with the proper solemnity.

You don't want to do something simpler, like making people rank a small set of proposed cities, plus something about what kind of lodging they want if they are going to a city where they don't already have something lined up?

I think it'd be fun to try to play with the larger dataset, but you may be right. Maybe a "if we give up trying to do anything fancy with this data, what's your simple ranking of places and dates (and which are simply not happening)?" And 5.last would probably need a follow-up ("which cities/dates could you self-arrange non-hotel lodging?").

Redfox's 151 is of course correct.

Redfox's 151 is of course correct.

OF COURSE.

If you had to describe the geographical arrangement of the commentariat upon arrival in the destination city as a flowering plant, what kind of plant would it be? Doesn't have to be a real plant.

CORRECT.

See Thorn knows from plants needing to be real.

Several of the questions in 146 seem to assume that the person sifting through all the responses is going to do web searches to find transportation costs from various cities. I don't think anyone wants to sign up for that.

Actually, the reason for this is that I want to at least attempt to use the stuff covered here to solve a real-world problem. That said, I have no idea whether there's a user-friendly flight-and-hotel-pricing API I could use to automate the data-scraping; Kayak seems to have discontinued theirs. So it's probably worth building in the data that would be needed if I gave up on the ambitious version. (And also, the final for that class is over the weekend, and I start a part-time, 3-month temp assignment on Monday, so I'm not sure I'd have time to really dig in until next week.)

Also, we should all rank how much we want to meet other commenters and then rate possible locations by the total commenter-satisfaction of their projected attendance.

This would actually be much easier for me to do, since it's a very simple application of the knapsack problem illustrated in the video linked in 169!

Please add a question about:
Willing to go becks-style?

Stanley is holding out of you people. He can put up tons of people.

You should force everybody to look up a flight or hotel price for at least five other submitters before they're able to submit.

I vote for Branson, Missouri.

darn it.

Holding out on you people.

173: But you repeat yourself.

173: No dice.

168; I can only assume one of the out-of-towners at your recent meetup spilled the beans about my being a person. But there's always Eggplant!

Really, it's like a sign from God.

Hey, I said the exact same thing too.

161 gets it right. The only question is how to take into account negative satisfaction.

Where does asilon stand on this issue? I support her. How about Chris Y?

I'd show you my grotto log, but we're at church.

I went back and read (what I thought was) the last thread on the topic, and it seemed to have been Pittsburgh vs. DC, which would explain why I was extra surprised by the Baltimore assertion.

Thank god someone else noticed this. Reading the post and the first part of the thread was driving me insane.

Anyway, my memory of the previous thread was that we had narrowed it to DC and Pittsburgh on Memorial Day Weekend and that we were going to set up a poll after the holidays to decide between the two.

Well, y'all can have fun editing the survey [redacted so that none of you fuckers meddles with the real survey - Heebie]. I need to do laundry.

Baltimore is close to DC.

So is Harpers Ferry.

161 made me laugh.

I gather the notion is that DC is too expensive, while Baltimore is just about as accessible from a distance and is more affordable. Very true. There is one thing: Baltimore has, frankly, kind of crappy public transportation. Then again, I'm not actually in town, so I'm not that familiar with the light rail or (dinky) subway system.

Actually! I've just recalled that there's a new, uh, purple line, the Baltimore Connector -- it's a free bus service. I haven't sampled its charms as yet, but it goes all around the downtownish areas. I should not be so quick to diss my city.

I recall the main downside to DC being discussed is that there's apparently some huge motorcycle rally there that weekend.

In the previous thread, I mean. No one's mentioned it in this one.

AUCKLAND IS CLOSE TO FARGO.

NickS attempted to mention it in 18.

Also, wasn't there some concern about a large bike event in Baltimore that weekend?

I'm mostly just annoyed because I felt like we accomplished a lot in the previous thread and now it's like everyone forgot so we're starting over.

That is a good reason to be annoyed.

I validate your annoyance.

189: Oh lord -- Rolling Thunder? Not so much fun.

AMATEURS!

The questionnaire seems useful so far.

I wonder what the centroid of likely attendees is?

Just for the record (although I can see the way the wind is blowing):

I can put up a half dozen adults in comfort, more in discomfort. If Cosma were on board for the main event, my place can accommodate a brunch or whatever, such that it's not 60 straight hours of trashing his place. As I've noted before, it's a pleasant walk from his place to mine, and there's a nice, mid-range hotel 2 blocks form his house as well.

It is vanishingly unlikely that I would make it to Baltimore or, frankly anywhere else. Actually, I can imagine a scenario where I go to Baltimore for the night of and crash on a couch. But no promises.

I certainly endorse a Pgh-meetup sometime this summer.

Here's the previous thread, to refresh everyone's memories. Comment 265:

I think what we may actually need at this point is for someone to set up a poll and get an actual count of who would attend in each case, since we seem to have pretty much settled on DC and Pittsburgh as the options.

194, 195: Thanks.

I would be perfectly happy with Pittsburgh, but not on Memorial Day. The Pirates are in town the weekend of May 18-19. Just sayin'.

And I really don't mean to be a pain in the ass about this, but hashing this stuff out is a lot of work and I don't want us to have to keep doing it over and over.

No, teo, I am with you. I had thought PGH was decided (which wasn't right either, I guess).

Anyway, Trapnel's questionnaire should work fine for getting whatever headcount we need once someone rescues it from Tweety.

Oh, and obviously if it's in Pgh, weekend doesn't matter to me. There is zero chance of me going elsewhere on a non-Memorial weekend.

Cosma might have academic duties on the weekend of the 18-19.

I too was surprised to see Baltimore floated again. It's not a horrible place, at all, and I have no interest in promoting it just because I live in the vicinity, but I hadn't thought it was on the table. DC is accessible but expensive; Pittsburgh is charming -- one would like to visit -- but less accessible. Wevs.

206: what! The implication!

Dude, you're not even going to the damn thing. Why do you care if we have it in Eudoxia or Phyllis?

If it's in Pittsburgh, Iris and oud will lead a symposium on Homer. I suppose we should add a question to the survey about whether people would prefer the Iliad or Odyssey.

Iliad all the way.

||

It's nice that Martha Wainwright is singing her late mother's lovely "Proserpina", but kind of vexing that Kate seems to have thought that Proserpina's mother was Hera.

|>

Teo is so, so wrong in 212.

210: Dude.

210 won't make much sense unless you look at the survey itself.

(I think that link doesn't require you to sign in with a Google account, unlike the one in 185.)

I don't have any ping pong balls.

You just have to say how many; you don't have to actually do it.

But answering when I don't actually know would be cheating. It says no cheating.

Is deflating cheating?

I had forgotten that my sisters were planning to descend on New York for Memorial Day weekend last time we talked about this, so I'd be very happy with a schedule change. Pittsburgh is hard to reach, but whatever, I'd make it there another weekend.

WE CAN'T PUT THE WHOLE THING UP FOR DEBATE EVERY TIME

neb gets it.

Neb, how about you edit the survey to your satisfaction? I'm still doing laundry.

I'm about to go to bed. If heebie has no objections I'll edit the survey and put up a new post tomorrow.

I'm sure heebie will have no objections when she wakes up with insomnia at 4 am and sees these comments.

So, I just had an idea - what about an Unfoggedecon? Let's start planning it now!

I vote for B'more. Or else DC.

Baltimore or DC are just easier and cheaper (in terms of airfares, I mean) to get to than Pittsburgh. Actually, NYC is probably cheapest in terms of flights, but then everything else about NYC is crazy-expensive.

And Baltimore is great! It has charm and interesting quirks and cheapish food and lodging.

Based on Unfoggedcon1, at least, we really don't need much. Chopper and I split a sofa, and I think many others were able to find similar accommodations. Blandings and I have recently invested in camping equipment, for example.

Also, should this idea of New York be taken seriously, I could put four in comfort and lots on the floor. You'd all have to be nice to my roommate, though.

Last time I went to Pittsburgh -- only time I went to Pittsburgh -- it was a snowy mess and I thought my cab driver was going to die on the way in. On the other hand there was a former church now devoted to beer, so that was cool. I'm not likely to fly there, because oh dear god not more travel, but maybe I'd go to meet Cosma and hear the Homer seminar. (Odyssey, obvs.)

And next time I go to neb's hometown remind me LAX is the wrong airport to fly to, even if I do get upgraded to business class in a fancy seat that lies flat. Because now I wait forever for a shuttle that will take forever to get me there.

33: No, fuck LA. This is a long and boring shuttle ride.

I think nosflow had the best encapsulation of LA.

Argh - C has been encouraging me to come over, but I just looked at flights and they're six hundred quid or more (to Pittsburgh or DC - half term holiday week at our end, holiday weekend at yours, neither of which help I guess) and I can't justify that to myself, no matter how much I want to stay at JRoth's house (and ideally bring kid D along for the Homer symposium). At least it means I don't have to do the survey.

EVERYONE MUST DO THE SURVEY.

Especially the part about ping pong balls. And don't cheat!

Jesus, teo, now you've blown nosflow's carefully constructed pseudonym. How would you like it if I revealed to everyone that your real name is Olifoet?

238 will be awkward when it turns out your name really is Olifoet.

227 is prophetic. I'll look at the survey tomorrow.

Are the equations at the top of the survey the formula that will be used to analyze the results?

As a resident of a potential host city I am recusing myself from having an opinions or participating in any of sham exercises in liberal proceduralism like a survey*. However, I will point out that from much of the Acela corridor (Boston probably excepted) the best way to get to Pittsburgh is via Megabus. Cheap and not all that more time-consuming than flying. Although my read is that some here are consider themselves too old or established to take a bus.

*Really. "Let's do a survey!" is the nerd** equivalent of "Let's put on a show!"

**Of either the hopelessly naive or conniving manipulator variety.

212: ENTIRELY CORRECT. C'mon, people!

not all that more time-consuming than flying

In theory, sure. In practice, it took us seven hours to get home from Boston on Sunday.

243: Hmm. We may have to have 2 sessions.

245: Iris is forgiven -- every child prefers the Odyssey!

244: whee!

We drive an Odyssey.

244: No doubt. However, let's assume:
T_o is the time between your leaving the point of origin to when the big bus/plane/train whatevs leaves.
T_t is the actual travel time on the conveyance.
T_d is the time from arrival in the destination city to your actual destination.

So T=T_o+T_t+T_d.
So I'd be interested in what the relevant values were for your experience and your estimation of the airplane/train alternatives. For Pittsburgh to NYC (for my particular _os and _ds) in my experience the T_o and T_d are much lower for Megabus vs. airplanes with trains in-between (but with the longest T_t).

And T_t for Megabus has generally been quite consistent.

T_t for Megabus along the corridor (that is, if you have to go anywhere near 95) can be very inconsistent indeed.

251: I can certainly believe that.

On Megabus yesterday from Boston to NYC I was 85 minutes late getting to New York, but on time getting home.

251: Yeah, that's the big thing; for Pittsburgh to most (all, really) destinations, T_t is really consistent because it's all low-congestion highways except in the immediate environs of the endpoints. And Pittsburgh congestion is at least consistent - shitty in some directions, but consistently so.

For NYC-Boston, T_o and T_d are identical for bus and train. As far as T_t goes, traffic wasn't a problem (Megabus doesn't take 95). It was more the three hours we spent in a Danbury, CT parking lot waiting for a service truck and then a replacement bus.

255: I have perversely fond memories of the high-school field trip that included a bus breakdown that put 50-60 students in a Lee, MA truck stop at 11 p.m. Probably the chaperones feel differently.

Based on Unfoggedcon1, at least, we really don't need much. Chopper and I split a sofa, and I think many others were able to find similar accommodations.

I just filled out the survey and selected "Isidora" as the city that I would like to host the event.

I now understand this to mean that the party will be everything that I would have hoped, but I will be too old to sleep comfortably sharing a couch with an attractive member of the commentariat.

256: As a youth swim coach, I was part of a "can't believe it went down like this in real life versus a canned story" several hour bus delay. Maneuvering at the club we were visiting, the bus managed to get a decorative rock wedged between its dual back tires. We clunked down the road to a gas station where hilarity ensued as attempts were made to lever the rock out. Then an honest-to-God old-guy-from-the-story showed up and pointed out the obvious solution of letting the air out of the tires. I am ashamed to this day of my role* in the whole thing.

*As assistant coach I was consumed with crowd control...but still, shameful.

So sad that it's too late to turn 258 into a Car Talk Puzzler.

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What's the best way to find an apartment for three months in NYC? The people I've talked to tell me craigslist is the way to go. Really? Around here, it's known has a haven for scammers, but maybe it's different in NY?
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Chopper and I split a sofa

Was that before or after Megan set it on fire?

260. airbnb? It's what I used to find a three-month sublet in San Francisco recently. I find it's less sketchy than craigslist.

So is there going to be a poll on the front page or isn't there?

I thought Ben was going to fix up the poll first. (But anyone else with a google account can, too, using the link at 186.) I guess he's busy at his job or something, being a responsible member of society.

The poll needs fixing?!?

I can do it. After gymnastics and bedtime routine, but before my own precious bedtime. Ingrates.

I mean, it seems pretty clear that people have settled on Beersheba.

AirBnb is pretty sweet. I did a holiday to Berlin last summer, it was pretty reasonable in terms of money and operationally really well worked out.

I am chiming in very late, and I am traveling this week so I have little ability to follow the discussion, but very happily volunteer my house. (The brains in canisters are another story.)

AirBnb is pretty sweet.

I had not heard of AirBnB until I read this thread. Wow! I want to go to London.