Thanks, LB. It was kind of you to read the book, much less write about it.
Thanks, LB. It was kind of you to read the book, much less write about it.
Who the hell is Von Wafer? And why is he speaking on my behalf?
Redact him, I say! Redact him this instant!
BTW, ari, thanks for picking up on that other thing. Interesting response, plus you seem to have made a sale.
Added to my reading list. Which at this point is so long and growing so much faster than I'm able to read that thinking about it kind of raises the specter of my mortality.
As long as you buy it, essear, I don't really care if you read it. (I'm kidding.)
And chris, if you talking about what I think you're talking about, I was happy to do it.
Only 1 left in stock!
How did the map(s) turn out?
If you made him a sandwich, I want one also.
They sell the book other places as well, Stormcrow (though Amazon is out of stock at the moment, BN has it for about the same discounted price, which is what I had hoped the full, retail price would be*). As for the maps, they turned out okay. It was a bit of an ordeal getting them made, and I don't think they're especially interesting. They are, however, reasonably accurate and easy to read, so that's something.
* My frustrations with the publishing industry: let me show you them.
Will the maps look good in Kindle?
92: Ah, Amazon Look Inside Pages 168 & 275 (there are probably more, but page vii--list of maps and illustrations not included). Good, now I don't have to buy it Came out pretty well. Looks like you used a common base map (is it the NPS'S?).
Will the maps look good in Kindle?
Is that even theoretically achievable?
Yeah, the base map is the USGS's. The Park Service, because it's a huge bureaucracy that hates me, couldn't find the originals of the maps it produced. That would have saved me tons of time and money. But given how cooperative NPS personnel were overall, I can't complain.
15: good looking maps in a kindle edition? Sure. Even on the actual kindle itself greyscale illustrations can look okay, but especially on other readers (like the iOS reader) things can look swell.
12, 15: I don't know. This was one of the fights I had with my publisher -- as distinct from my editor, with whom I didn't fight at all -- and it never got resolved. My sense, based on having looked at a lot of other books, is that it's not really possible to have nice maps/graphics/images in a kindle book. And given how central cartography is in my story, that's a bit of a bummer.
16: I was wondering who all hated you as a result of writing the book. And maybe you actually cover that in the book. If only there were some way to find out.
BN has it for about the same discounted price
For gentiles also?
19: as far as I can tell, the regional director and the regional communications director of the NPS both are quite annoyed with me. The NPS site superintendent is not; she and I remain close friends. Several of the local landowners are really quite angry at me (One of them, discussing an upcoming talk I'm giving in Pueblo, apparently said something to the effect of, "He better not show his face in Kiowa County.").
The Northern Arapaho descendants never had much time for me, but they seem to be okay with the book, though they think I underplayed their role in the memorialization process. The Northern Cheyenne descendants, who are by far the most militant activists I've ever met, are surprisingly pleased with the way I portrayed them. The leading Southern Cheyenne player in the book died several years ago, but the surviving descendants with whom I worked are apparently ambivalent about the project (there are, though, some Southern Cheyenne activists, the members of a group that's focused on a massive reparations claim, who are considering suing me -- I'm really not sure why they're angry). And the Southern Arapahos were basically absent from the whole process, so I have no idea about them.
Oh, I forgot about the people at the Colorado Historical Society (now History Colorado). They were really upset, for no good reason, I don't think, about some things I wrote. But then they invited me to come give a talk there, decided to charge the public for the privilege of hearing me speak (without telling me they would do that), sold out more than 750 tickets, and so I think they've forgiven me.
Ooh, 21 gets me all excited about the book. Gonna root against those jerk landowners!
The landowners did not come off well at all.
Most of them weren't jerks, actually. They were just trying to make the process work for them. It was pretty interesting to watch these anti-government ranchers use their property rights as a cudgel in a fight with federal authorities. I mean, it's an old story, but I hadn't seen it up close before this.
16 Too bad, I wish I'd known that you needed some assistance in that area at the time as I might have been able to help.
23: hmm, I tried to treat them fairly. In fact, I thought I bent over backward to paint them in a relatively favorable light. Oh well, I guess I'd better steer clear of Kiowa County.
I guess the negative impression I got was that Dawson was cynically exploiting the spiritual? traditional? value of the land through his relationships with the local Cheyenne leaders to drive the price up. It looked unseemly. (Although I suppose that given where the money for the land eventually came from, I don't really care.)
anti-government ranchers
I am reminded, as I periodically am, of a quote I saw in a Los Vegas free weekly. An aggrieved rancher said, or at least this is how I remember it: "A park is like a cancer. It grows and grows until it covers everything."
27: yeah, I think that's accurate. At the same time, the book is at least in part about the way that everybody tries to bend memories of Sand Creek to their own purposes.
28: that's a great quote. Find me the original, and I'll have Megan buy you a Coke.
29: everybody tries to bend memories of Sand Creek to their own purposes.
One guy used them to write a book!
Las Vegas, obviously. I bet I can figure out the dates for when we were in town when we read that article.
Just out of curiosity, what year were the NPS maps in question produced?
32: eh, it's not that big a deal. I'll just quote this thread.
... killed somewhere around five or six hundred of them ...
Wikipedia gives a lower figure:
... killing and mutilating an estimated 70-163 Indians, ...
I think the generally accepted number is ~150 killed. Chivington, because he was hoping that Sand Creek would be remembered as a glorious battle, claimed that his men had killed 500-600 Cheyenne and Arapaho people.
I think it should be in the February 17th, 2000 issue of either the Las Vegas Weekly or Las Vegas Citylife. No luck just searching on their public websites.
I'll just quote this thread.
Sensible.
"Fools," said I, "you do not know
Parks like cancers grow."
36, 38: See the footnotes to the post. That is, it's my error: it was clear in the book, but I grabbed the wrong number flipping back through to remind myself of it.
Well then just take my 37 as a general comment on whatever the writer of 36 writes in comments here when I can be bothered to read them which is not much.
7 As long as you buy it, essear, I don't really care if you read it.
Done. I was already going to the bookstore today, so why not add one more? They didn't have many copies. Surely we can assume that means they had hundreds which sold out.
Hopefully I'll get around to reading it within the next, I don't know, year.
37 43
I cited wikipedia. You have some problem with wikipedia also?
I guess I should probably read this book.
couldn't find the originals of the maps it produced.
Ah yes, the not great scans. Aside from the scan artifacts, I like yours better.
44: tell them to buy more! (Seriously, if they only have one left, you'd be doing me a favor by bringing that fact to their attention. Assuming, that is, we're talking about a brick-and-mortar bookstore.)
46: I'd offer to send you a copy, but I'm quite frightened of what you'll think of it.
Also, I don't have any copies at the moment. I should get more next week, but those are already spoken for (I have to send them to all the people who sat for interviews).
46: Come to think, you should have reviewed it -- you probably had some preexisting knowledge of anything related to it.
My sense of the Indian Wars comes primarily from watching F-Troop as a child.
I also should send another copy to Bill Emblom.
I like my reviewers like I like my coffee: credulous and generous.
53: F-Troop wasn't that bad, surely?
I plan on not so much reading it as skimming it for the sex parts.
56: some of Chivington's men scalped their victims, or, in a few cases, hacked genitalia from their bodies. But they didn't eat their "trophies," so you'll be probably be disappointed by that part of the story.
48: I don't know how soon I'll be going to the bookstore again, but if I do I'll look to see how many copies are there.
(Do none of the actual brick-and-mortar stores around here have some kind of relationship with HUP? It seems like there should be some kind of section with all the new books the Press has published, but I don't remember ever noticing one. Local authors, yes, but that's a different thing.)
58.2 is right. HUP doesn't even want such a section, because then the books wouldn't be in the right part of the store. What they want, and what they (used to and maybe still do) have, is an agreement for a standing order (an automatic order, in other words) of their books.
49/50: That's okay, I'm sure I can find a copy here. I'll check next time I'm at B&N.
51: I did learn about Sand Creek in high school, so there's that.
I like my reviewers like I like my coffee: credulous and generous.
So why did you send it LB?
62: the press did. Also, I'm speaking at Bookworks in a few weeks and then at UNM and SAR.
64: Bill Emblom thinks you may be making a mistake. WWBED
I'd like to believe that scalping and mutilation generally have passed into desuetude, even in the world's ugliest theaters of small conflict, but I know that cannot be true. Now I'm depressed.
65: I find it somewhat implausible that Unfogged is on HUP's standard list of publications to send review copies to.
I saw the SAR appearance mentioned on FB, but I hadn't seen the other two. Say hi to my mom while you're there.
66: When you've lost the retired 4th grade school teachers ...
70: Well, we sure haven't reviewed very many of their books, for one thing.
I find it somewhat implausible that Unfogged is on HUP's standard list of publications to send review copies to.
Probably they just sent it to LB c/o whatever state government agency employs her, and she posted the review here because why not.
72: Do you have data to back that statement up?
No, and if you can produce some contrary data I'll withdraw it.
Back in the higher-profile days of the blog, I was actually getting the very occasional unsolicited review copy of something not written by a commenter (that is, I'd get an email asking for an address to send a copy to). I think the only one of those I ever actually reviewed was The Trouble With Diversity. I wrote a review of the Anonymous Lawyer book, but I really hated it a lot, so I sent it to the author and asked if he'd like me to post it on the "as long as you spell my name right" principle, or if he'd prefer that I pass over it in silence. He took option B.
A publicist once wrote me out of the blue to ask if I'd like a review copy of this horrifically named book.
I've been told that that violates some sort of reviewer's code, but as an amateur I feel empowered to do as I please.
You could at least have forwarded it to Apo.
I have no idea what use that book is to anyone, to be honest. Perhaps this reveals the depth of my prudery, or alternatively my degradation.
75: Well-played. I was just testing how long you would stay in character after 68.1.
68: the publicist asked me for a list of blogs I read. I included this one. Also, I promise to sign a book for your mom if she comes my talk (carrying a copy of my book -- so I'll recognize her).
ari, will you be coming to Foggy Bottom Con* and giving a book talk?
*I know it's the wrong part of the city, but I'm going with it anyway.
Foggy Bottom Con
You read the chapter titles of the book in 77.
86: Ah, I assumed 65.1 was just a joke. I guess ari's not a joker, unlike that Von Wafer fellow whose around here sometimes.
I promise to sign a book for your mom if she comes my talk (carrying a copy of my book -- so I'll recognize her).
Thanks, but I don't think this is really her kind of book.
I was suggesting he seek out my mom, not that she would go to his talk(s).
This is like a sitcom where the kid tried to set up his single-parent mom with the handsome history teacher from jr. high. Or am I missing something?
But … why would he seek out your mom, if not to talk to her about his book?
Re 79, actually I wrote back to the publicist declining the offer of a free book but suggesting a free private demonstration with the author. The publicist did not take me up on that, for some reason.
87: I very much doubt it. It's a long trip from here, and that's a weekend that we almost always go to the coast (this coast, I mean).
89: I had her send copies to Tedra and Erik Loomis as well. Hmm, I think Josh Marshall got a copy. And maybe Coates, too. Also the Civil War Memory guy and probably a few others that I'm forgetting.
But not teo's mom. It's not her kind of book.
You could have had a co-author credit, pal.
By writing a largish portion of the book.
I think I recall someone recommending someone else attend grad school somewhere. Before they decided it was a horrible idea for anyone to do so anywhere.
104: Yeah, I was afraid that was the answer.
Please, Moby, the real answer is: by writing all of the book but only being credited with writing a small portion of it. Grad school!
I am skeptical that a situation like that typically involves any credit at all.
In other news, I stopped by Barnes & Noble earlier today (on my way home from buying some flannel shirts at Fred Meyer, because I live in the Pacific Northwest) to see if they had ari's book. They did not.
My son insists on wearing flannel shirts, leaving then open over a plain white t-shirt, like he's going to attract Winona Ryder as soon as he figures out how to get to 1993.
Did you ask them to order it? It's not too late to get a co-author credit!*
* It is too late.
That would have involved talking to someone, so no.
If he does figure that out, could you have him let me know? Thanks.
For all I know, she may still be into flannel-wearing guys.
I'm attending a jogger/logger-themed party this month. I'm contemplating spandex-y running pants on the bottom and a flannel shirt on top. (Plus, you know, the beard.)
I thought you were serious about her.
It's probably unwise to jog with a chainsaw.
Who is this ari kelman fellow? His book sounds interesting. (Though there's one disgruntled amazon customer who seems to have expected a completely different book...).
I will buy it. And read it.
Thanks, MC! The first 500 buyers get a maple donut.
When I was young, the school used to sell maple sticks, but not maple donuts. Then they made the high school kids stop smoking and they all got fat and they blamed the maple sticks instead of the not smoking. Fucking bastards.
When I was young, the school used to sell maple sticks,
You went to school in Pointe-Gatineau/Gatineau Point?
My school used to sell Vachon cakes. My favourite was the Ah Caramel! (a vanilla sponge cake with a caramel filling and a fake chocolate coating).
LB needs to rate the book and post her review over at Amazon. Or maybe I will say that Kelman's argument has never been made in such detail or with such care. (Were we ever that young?)
The landowner is the Jew of historical revisionism.
128 is spot on. AFAICS you can only get the Kindle edition over here so far (Maps? What maps?), and it's hideously expensive, so I fear it may have to wait.
128: someone from the press sent me a very freaked-out e-mail about the Amazon review*, but I kind of love it, because it reminds me of the Q&A at most talks I give. Regardless, Kirkus reviewed the book favorably, and I think, even though the publishing landscape has shifted considerably, Kirkus still has more weight than Bill Emblom.
* Who knew that Amazon reviews had comment threads? It's a world gone mad! (And no, that's not me sock-puppetting in that thread.)
Amazon reviewers frequently give one star to a product they are attempting to use in some bizarre and off-label fashion. ("I bought these silicone wine stoppers because I thought they'd help me with my cholera. They came right out! And made an even bigger mess!") Maybe I will go blame ari's book for failing as a flotation device.
Oh my god I hadn't seen the comment thread. That's hilarious.
This is my all-time favorite Amazon review(, which I'm sure I've linked here before.)
Who knew that Amazon reviews had comment threads?
I think we should be able to rate the comments on the reviews. And then indicate whether we found the ratings helpful.
Blimey so you can. Metter than meta. Incidentally I was wrong when I said it didn't seem to be available in print over here, but I still can't afford it.
It's my book!
Also, it's pissing me off that I can't embed video at my blog of Sandra Lee baking her magical Kwanzaa cake. Why do I suck at the internet? Why?!!!?
Jews suck at the practical arts.
I said my book cures cholera, Stormcrow. That's pretty fucking practical.
Most kidding aside, I did not realize how central maps/geography were to the book you were working on. Exciting stuff; we'll probably get one or maybe even two. My daughter has been doing various historical/genealogical map work which I have helped with from time-to-time. No political controversies, but it did have us poring over an ancestor's Revolutionary War diary with a magnifying glass in the Cincinnati museum arguing about whether the 'R' in "Raccon Settlement" could have been anything other than an 'R' (since the actual Raccoon Settlement was not located where it needed to be for that day's journey to work). Or maybe he was confused or simply referring to the road to the Raccoon Settlement. It does amuse me to think of him writing these cryptic entries* every evening and having people 200+ years later trying to sort them out. At least he was on his way to one that the Native Americans "won" with zero casualties on their side to ~40 killed, 60 captured.
*I'm sure I could not maintain my matter-of-factness on this day, for instance (but I guess what else were you going to do).
Aug. 24. Col. Lochery ordered the boats to land on the Indiana shore, about ten miles below the mouth of the Great Meyamee River, to cook provisions and cut grass for the horses when we were fired on by a party of Indians from the bank. We took to our boats expecting to cross the river, and were fired on by another party in a number of canoes in the river, and soon we became a prey to them. They killed the Col. and a number more after they were prisoners. The number of our killed was about forty. They marched us that night about eight miles up the river and encamped.
The proper number of my books for a family to own is always n+1. Cures cholera!
Wards off fans of Gabriel Garcia Marquez!
From whence springs your impressive entrepreneurial and promotional talents?
I have this terrible habit of reading the 1-star reviews of things. Formerly Bald Former Lurker Chris recommended a book on conlangs and I read the two 1-star reviews by, like, butthurt esperantists and spent a day thinking "what if they're right and the book is terrible?" before buying it.
Bill Emblom may well be right that the book isn't about what he thought it was about.
149: Do you have anything similar on the lack of agreement between "springs" and "talents"?
151: that's a really roundabout way of telling me you're not going to read my book, Smearcase.
"I was very thrilled with this book. I thought I was going to read about the details of my cousin's hemorrhoid surgery, which took place on November 29, 1964, led by a Methodist "doctor" named Colonel John Rotorooterington. Instead the book spent a great deal of time debating exactly where a massacre site is located. In addition, the book does not mention by cousin's anus at all."
Post that! (Or maybe don't. No, do! Or don't. I'm conflicted.)
155: I swear to Chthulu if you do not post that I will come find you in the 'burgh and take away your Rusty Nail.
Amazon wants my real account and I'm not sure if I need another google hit for "John Rotorooterington" with my real name.
I'm only like an hour and a half away, Hick. Do you ever want to drink in peace again?
no problem. create an account for ari kelman eric rauchway.
I do have his credit card number already.
My dream of having my book become the Three Wolf Moon t-shirt of studies of mid-nineteenth century Indian massacres appears to have been thwarted by Moby Hick's so-called scruples.
Ari, I asked the B&N by the aquarium to order some and suggested they keep some on hand for all your fans. Not sure whether they will.
Thank you, Thorn. Much appreciated.
She was talking to ari, VW. Quit trying to horn in on that guy's turf.
VW is also the non-sock puppet who comments on ludicrous Amazon reviews, I assume. It's probably important to have a cheerleader. But seriously, if I'd seen this book on the new arrivals shelf at the library without having encountered it at an eclectic web magazine, I'd have picked it up and brought it home. But I've done that with a lot of other things recently and need to work through my backlog. I could read so much more if it weren't for those meddling kids, or whatever a Scooby Doo villain would say.
67 flippanter: may I suggest that you never read any news reports or books on eastern congo? no, congo full stop; don't read anything. and probably also steer clear of florida. just some advice to make this fallen world more cheerful.
