Allow me to be the first to recommend Chain Drive.
Le Châine Drive, we used to call it, making sure to pronounce it luh shan dreev with the most Parisian of r's, because we were witty that way.
I know a good joke about what EPCOT stands for.
Experimental Polyester Costumes Of Torture?
Wish I could be there then! I'll be in town again at the end of February / beginning of March, though.
5: Let's do it again! Drinks on Neil!
We could go to EPCOT I guess but I'm not sure there's liquor. Though Bave was delighted by an article in the NYTimes magazine where this guy talked about figuring out how to smoke pot at Disney.
7: Sounds fun to me! I missed you and the Kraabs last time I was in town. I'll get back to you with more info when I know which day I'm leaving for Miami. It's likely that I'll be there from Thursday to Sunday at least.
That is, I'll be in Austin from Thursday the 28th to Sunday the 3rd.
I just moved to NYC for three months, today. Maybe next time.
I think I will go to Austin for this meetup.
I am very uncharacteristically making fairly concrete plans ahead of time for next weekend, so if we could nail down some specifics for the meetup relatively soon that would be great.
A Saturday night on East 6th would probably be a lot of fun, if people are tolerant of an environment saturated with hipsterdom.
Would you prefer earlier or later, C.B.?
Smearcase made some noise about wanting to go to the Continental Club after, which argues for SoCo, though I don't know that there's anyplace bearable on a Saturday night.
If we're going to dinner, we could go to Sazon on S. Lamar (interior Mexican, far enough south not to be crowded).
East 6th would be good, too. Liberty, maybe?
I've made plans to try to get rush tickets for The Rite of Spring at the Long Center on Saturday, which means if I can make it to the meetup it would be either early or very late, but South Austin works well.
I'd be at the Long Center something like 7-10 PM.
If we're going to dinner, we could go to Sazon on S. Lamar
Ooh, go there! Sazon's great. Mmmm, cochinita pibil.
Interior Mexican you can actually get in the northeast so I lean slightly to Tex Mex but won't insist.
El Chile?
Will try to see if I can change ballet to Friday.
And Sazon. Hell, I like it all.
Alright, changed the ballet plans so I can do anywhere/anytime Saturday.
Other options: Polvos, Takoba, Los Comales. Even the interior Mexican places mostly have queso and the like.
Great! Thanks, Crimble.
Wherever we go, I need a time, to line up a baby-sitter. 7:00 okay?
My dance card is open. 7 sounds good.
"Interior Mexican"? At first I thought that meant, it's a restaurant and not just a stand.
The funny thing is, whenever I go to Austin I tell my dad I want to go out for Tex-Mex, and he always responds by suggesting Sazón. Which is, as noted above, delicious but also NOT TEX-MEX.
Also you should all read this article and discuss it at the meetup.
I'll be in Austin for a few days during SxSW with a night or two off, but I imagine all actual locals will have fled the area that week.
31: We'll be here. Let us know your plans when the time gets near.
And have no fear. M/tch and Kraab are dear, though they may bend an ear.
Thanks, I may well do that. The evening of Tues or Weds 3/12 or 3/13 are likeliest. It would be cool to have something to do; even though I'm going to SxSW for business, as always I have no interest in going to anything SxSW related that I'm not working on... but it's hard to find anything unrelated in Austin that week. I'd much prefer visiting when it's not SxSW time, but then I'd have to pay my own way.
I vote for Tex-Mex over "interior Mexican" (which I too thought was something like a Mexican place with only indoor seating), but I don't know if I'll be able to tell the difference between the two in Texas.
I don't know if I'll be able to tell the difference between the two in Texas.
Really? I would have thought that as a New Mexican you would have a fairly refined sense of the differences among different Mexican cuisines. I had never heard the phrase "interior Mexican" before this thread, and I'm still not sure what it refers to exactly (which part of Mexico?), but I've certainly eaten at restaurants serving regional Mexican cuisines that were very obviously different from either Tex-Mex or New Mexican food.
I'm just suspicious that "interior Mexican" in Texas is going to come out tasting like Tex-Mex.
Honestly, I'm not entirely clear about Tex-Mex. I've mostly eaten it in Brooklyn.
If this is a Texas thread, what's the deal with road signs on I-10 giving maximum and minimum speeds in El Paso. Is that just an El Paso thing or does that show up elsewhere?
Huh. I've never noticed it driving up and down the west coast. This is the first time I've driven east of Nevada.
I'm just suspicious that "interior Mexican" in Texas is going to come out tasting like Tex-Mex.
Ah, okay. I can see that, though I'm not sure if it's true.
Honestly, I'm not entirely clear about Tex-Mex. I've mostly eaten it in Brooklyn.
I've rarely eaten it anywhere. My impression of it is that it relies heavily on beef.
They are overlapping magisteria: http://www.austinchronicle.com/food/2009-03-06/751674/
I've never heard "interior Mexican" outside of Austin, either. It doesn't refer to a particular region and probably isn't rigorous with respect to northern Mexican cuisine and tex Mex since there's not like a quesogloss or something like the greasy/greazy line at I-64 (?) but you can definitely tell your average Tex Mex place from your average Mex-Mex place, not to speak even of extreme examples like El Patio (still open?) where your salsa is served with Saltines.
43: I have a Tex Mex cookbook with an essay about how Diana Kennedy, while introducing Americans to interior Mexican, also really vilified Tex Mex, a thoroughly legit regional cuisine, saying Americans associated Mexican cuisine with "an overly large platter of mixed messes, smothered in a shrill tomato sauce, sour cream, and grated yellow cheese preceded by a dish of mouth-searing sauce and greasy deep-friend chips. Although these do represent some of the basic foods of Mexico - in name only - they have been brought down to their lowest common denominator north of the border, on a par with the chop suey and chow mein of Chinese restaurants twenty years ago."
There was that nifty essay floating around a couple of months ago that talked at some point about how it was stupid to differentiate regional Mexican cuisine from within Mexico and regional Mexican cuisine from within border adjacent and nigh-adjacent US since they were all regional cuisines developed by Mexicans in the various places on the continent where Mexicans live and have lived for like ever. Apparently this seemingly enlightened attitude holds little sway in New Mexico.
"Interior Mexican" is a pretty weird phrase, though.
Apparently this seemingly enlightened attitude holds little sway in New Mexico.
It does? I would agree entirely with that argument.
"Interior Mexican" is a pretty weird phrase, though.
Nah, it seems pretty straightforward to me, though I had never heard it before and it seems to be unique to Austin. The food of the interior of the country as opposed to that of the northern borderlands.
49: oh I know you probably do, but in my head you and Bave were scoffing at the heterodox meats and inapt chilis of Tex-Mex.
50: I just am confused by treating the coasts as part of the "interior".
in my head you and Bave were scoffing at the heterodox meats and inapt chilis of Tex-Mex.
Oh, we do, of course. But that's a different sort of argument from this one.
52: Fair enough. It's probably not the term I would choose to describe the same concept.
I'm just suspicious that "interior Mexican" in Texas is going to come out tasting like Tex-Mex.
Nah, they're actually really different. I mean, you can get queso, but most of the stuff I've had there is Yucatecan; it's nothing like Tex-Mex.
I think of Tex-Mex as meaning cheap, authentic, delicious ways to recombine at most five ingredients. (I don't think of it as being particularly beef-based, per Teo above.)
Interior Mexican means more exotic dishes, a little fancier, and more ingredients.
I don't think of it as being particularly beef-based, per Teo above.
It may not be; like I say, I've rarely had it. I do still suspect it's probably more beef-based than New Mexican food, which is heavily pork-based.
It's pretty heavily pork-based, too. Or shredded chicken. I mean, generally any dish comes in each animal-version, but the beef is often kind of the grossest, so maybe I'm biased.
This is, sadly, my first case of post-melatonin insomnia, in about six weeks.
Yeah, I mean, there's plenty of beef and chicken in New Mexican cuisine too, but the most distinctive traditional dishes (posole, tamales, carne adovada, etc.) are made by default with pork and only rarely with some other meat. I have the vague sense that this is not the case for Tex-Mex, but as I say I don't know much about it. Certainly both belong to the general culinary tradition of northern Mexico and resemble each other much more than either resembles any of the other regional Mexican cuisines.
59: I was wondering why you were up so late. Poor heebie.
Jammies has led me to believe that the main difference is that in NM, the verde sauce is better and it has a fried egg on top. But he's also a stick-with-my-favorite-dish kind of guy, not a get-to-know-it-all.
The parts of NM where he's lived aren't really where the classic cuisine comes from, though. That description doesn't ring very true to me.
For the record, the dishes in 60 all show up here. I'm really terrible at even describing the places here, let alone contrasting them to a state I've never been to.
It's totally possible that the two cuisines are much more similar than I've implied here. I really have no idea. It's been a long time since I had any Tex-Mex.
teo's had Tex-Mex, but not in a way he can understand anymore.
Baseless but possibly accurate conjecture, informed by anti-Texas prejudice: the phrase "interior Mexican" arose because restaurateurs wanted to forestall customers' embarassment at not knowing how to pronounce "Oaxacan". Like the substitution of "blush wine" for "rosé" on menus.
67: Given the way Central Texans happily mangle, e.g., Mexican and German-derived place-names,* I find it very hard to imagine that it would have occurred to anyone that mispronouncing "Oaxacan" should be a source of embarrassment.
Much less (per 55) most of the restaurateurs misspelling "Yucatecan."
And why haven't Stanley and Moby made a bunch of stupid and tasteless "Interior Mexican" jokes so I can make mine?
67: That would be my guess, or people not knowing what "Oaxacan" meant and being disinclined to go there. Mole!
I'm not an expert on either, but Tex Mex is clearly different than New Mexican food. No green chile, no sopapillas, etc. in Tex Mex. And I don't think fajitas or chimichangas are New Mexican. I think both are partial to the flour tortilla, though.
The flour/non-flour tortilla difference might be a reasonable dividing line between the cuisine of northern Mexican borderlands and "interior Mexican" (a phrase I'd never heard before either).
I will say that IME, aside from taco trucks/stands, the general tenor of all Mexican food, tex or non, is generally better in Texas than in California. Though there's plenty of incredible Mexican food here, too. I'm not sure why that should be but there it is.
I had never heard "interior Mexican" in my years in Texas (left in early '85). But I do see a number of references in Texas Monthly starting in the '80s. The first reference I can find is in an ad for Fonda San Miguel (still there?) on W. North Loop from June 1980. I suspect it was not that common of a term because in a 1982 review it is treated at as something that needs to be explained.
We have sopapillas. Generally not green chiles unless someone's making the point that it's Hatch Green Chile time and they're in from NM. They always have both corn and flour tortillas, but flour is slightly more the default.
I think "interior" just means "upscale".
As in, there are no interior Mexican restaurants in Heebie Town or Heebie U Town, but tons of delicious Tex-Mex.
Also, I need to chill out and not be so furious at this student who came in for office hours, in a differential equations class, and is clueless about how to plug in initial conditions. Or how to integrate 1/t. Let alone anything that we've actually covered this semester. The test is tomorrow. (I've had this student before, which is part of my over-reaction.)
an overly large platter of mixed messes, smothered in a shrill tomato sauce, sour cream, and grated yellow cheese preceded by a dish of mouth-searing sauce and greasy deep-friend chips
She says this like it's a bad thing.
74: My understanding had always been that Fonda San Miguel (which is indeed still there) coined the term. The article linked in 44 suggests that may be right. Certainly into the early 90's, "interior Mexican" was not-quite-but-almost synonymous with "Fonda San Miguel" in Austin.
I think "interior" just means "upscale".
Ah, I get it, analogous to "Northern" in conjunction with "Italian", i.e. "expensive and self-consciously devoid of tomato sauce". ("Northern Italian" is also about as meaningless a designation as "interior Mexican", inasmuch as the differences among, say, Piemontese and Friulian cuisine are at least as stark as those between Florentine and Neapolitan. But whatevs.)
80: And I did not check, but all of the TM references might have been for Fonda San Miguel (the review from '82 that I mention was from there). I did my usual Google Groups search (timestamps FTW) and saw a reference back to 1992 (scarce archives before that), but its frequency of use seems to really only have taken off in the late '90s/2000s
I thought "northern Italian" meant blond?
I thought it meant "competently corrupt."
There's a real problem in math that on the one hand we can't fail too many students without being completely out of step (already math grades are lower), but since math so heavily builds on itself people moving on to higher classes without knowing the earlier stuff is a bigger problem.
I'm not sure what the solution is. Only a B+ or higher counts as a pre-requisite, and for lower grades you can keep enrolling in the same class if you want? Or things bifurcate? If you get below a B+ on Calc 1, you go into a yearlong Calc 2a/2b course instead of a semester long Calc 2. But the current system is pretty broken.
This kid has a problem, which I've seen in other students, where they absolutely cannot retain a mathematical fact from one part of a conversation to another. Like, you use the same u-substitution several times in the same problem, and each time he comes to it, he's absolutely perplexed. Despite having the solution written out maybe an inch away from where he's staring. OMG HE DRIVES ME CRAZY. And why is today the first time he's come to office hours all semester?
I think "interior" just means "upscale".
Honestly, I don't think so. Polvos, Sazon, and Los Comales are all delicious interior Mexican cuisine and the dinner plates are in the $8-15 range. It really means ingredients / dishes that people in the United States of Mexico actually eat.
79: exaaaactly
My favorite thing at Chuy's was always the stuffed sopapilla with green chile sauce (which vanished from the menu at some point but you could still order it at at least one location) so maybe I am going to really like New Mexican cuisine.
Polvos, Sazon, and Los Comales are all delicious interior Mexican cuisine and the dinner plates are in the $8-15
Which is way more expensive than any Mexican food in Heebie Town or Heebie U Town. (If I knew San Antonio better, I might have a more interesting opinion.)
But in Heebie Town alone, there are probably 30-40 Tex-mex restaurants, all very similar.
Certainly, if the food is super cheap it's either Tex-Mex or simple tacos and quesadillas. I think the out-of-towners / returners should choose where we go. Of the places I listed, El Chile is probably the most straight up Tex-Mex. Guero's would be good if you want to stumble drunk on foot to the Continental Club.
IME, Guero's is loud, has long lines on Saturday nights, and isn't anything special. I agree that Smearcase & Bave should make the decision.
Meanwhile, I'm going to make us a reservation at El Chile @ 7 so we have that to fall back on. CB, are you going to have a plus 1? Any lurkers who haven't spoken up yet planning to join us?
(I'm really not trying to push El Chile in particular. It seems easy and uncontroversial, but I'm happy to go elsewhere.)
Smearcase & Bave
I guess "Smearbave" is the wrong contraction.
This is a surprisingly fun game. RobHaScarJo.
Given the way Central Texans happily mangle, e.g., Mexican and German-derived place-names,* I find it very hard to imagine that it would have occurred to anyone that mispronouncing "Oaxacan" should be a source of embarrassment.
Word. After we go to El Chile on MAY-ner (Manor) Rd., let us take you down MAN-shack (Manchaca) Rd. and over to Bear (Bexar) County. We could visit Green (Gruene) or PUHR-di-NAHL-es (Pedernales), then go back home to BURN-it (Burnet) Rd.
98: let us take you down MAN-shack (Manchaca) Rd. and over to Bear (Bexar) County. We could visit Green (Gruene)
The putative footnote whose asterisk I neglected to delete from 68 after deciding not to bother was going to illustrate the point with a story about my comical attempt to meet up with some friends in the town of "Green" when I was still new to the area, and how another time the instruction to "take a left when you hit Man Shack Road" caused hijinks to ensue. And how, a few years ago, I was involved in a case in which others who had apparently never had the privilege of living in Texas were talking about a contractual forum selection clause specifying "Bayhar County" and I thought it was weird that this major corporation had settled on one of the roughly 13,000 obscure Texas counties I'd never had reason to hear of.
Yes, plus 1. Thanks for making the reservations.
Beercave!
I think maybe my litmus test for Tex Mex is can you order queso.
So, I think I'm alone in my enthusiasm for places like Matt's El Rancho, and El Chile sounds good, so maybe comity?
Watching the decision process unfold on meetup locations makes you:
A. Laugh out loud.
B. Run screaming from the room.
C. Scornful and hateful.
D. Smile quietly to yourself in self-recognition, amused but secure in your deep appreciation of the absurdity of life.
E. Smile quietly to yourself in self-recognition, amused but secure in your knowledge that flawed and ridiculous creatures though we may appear, others are worse.
F. All of the above except D.
My cousin just took us to a Dallas offshoot of Matt's and I am now at peace with the universe and we can go for French food if anyone wants!
Now, time was you could only get Okie-Fren doors around here -- we're famous for 'em! -- but not anymore!
I think maybe my litmus test for Tex Mex is can you order queso.
That would certainly distinguish it from New Mexican food (which per 88 I think you would really like).
I kind of want to think of the food in New Orleans as exterior French.
Wait is smearcase going to New Mexico this trip, too? We need one of those animated itineraries like in Raiders.
|| Which makes most sense?
-regarding people who I haven't seen in a decade and about whom my feelings range from vague irritation to affection that does not require meeting up this time around
A) stay off fb for the next four days and avoid the issue altogether
B) make a preëmptive posting about how I'm going to be in town and sorry I don't get to see everyone this time (I just saw someone do this and it seemed like maybe real Jedi stuff)
C) deal on a case by case basis if someone I don't really want to see notices I'm in town
D) have a Sunday night "I will be at [location] if anyone wants to come by" catch-all thing?
E) get over myself if people actually want to see me and make some damn time and stop reënacting Mean Girls
F) other!
I think I'm jumpy because I emailed one friend who knows one set of people I knew in Austin to the effect of "I'm looking forward to seeing you but I'm probably not going to see the whole crowd this time" and two days later he emailed back "I'm having a reception [!] for you and wanted to find out which day was good."
|>
F) other! "I am coming through town on the lam and if the cops see you in my company they will shoot first and ask questions later."
Seriously, B if you have the cojones, otherwise D or E, whichever is less effort for you.
D) have a Sunday night "I will be at [location] if anyone wants to come by" catch-all thing?
I did this recently and it was pretty fun. Just make sure to salt it with one or two people you actually do want to talk to.
115 cont'd: in part because there was a sort of "I got the band back together!" flavor to various people who don't necessarily see each other that much all coming out to see me and ending up talking to each other. (okay, probably they were mostly there to see pregnant Blume. Still.)
Why Facebook is the devil. Example #2274.
Ah, "salt it with people you do want to see" is smart.
And yes this is why fb is the devil but as someone with a really weird relationship to travel I can't shake the impression that one goes places about 50% for the purpose of saying, in some form, Hey Everybody I Am in a Place so I am actually somewhat compelled to post things.
My strategy is always (A). I do not like seeing people I do not want to see.
Ok the reception was thoroughly enjoyable. This thread is kaput until the liveblogging but I felt like admitting my error.
The plan is El Chile, right? at 7?
No reason not to start liveblogging early, though.
I'm literally grading differential equations exams right this second and Jammies is grocery shopping with the kids.
I think it might be time to do something about this liveblogging addiction, Sifu.
That would be one potential approach, I suppose.
Remember when I was reading comments? That was great.
I'm here on my couch, waiting for more liveblogging!
129: it was swell! But see 126.
The class really likes to use pen on their tests. I don't really care, as long as I can read their work, but it's a little odd.
122 is my plan, at least.
As for liveblogging, I am deathly bored trying to fork the Events Manager plugin for WordPress. I am doing this in a hip coffee shop in the heart of a traditionally black neighborhood, thereby contributing to its gentrification.
This student - who has passed at least Cal 1 and 2 - thinks that (3x+x^2)/x^2 can be simplified down to 3x. This may in fact be the same student that I complained about a few days ago.
He has made that mistake several times throughout his test already.
My throat is tickly. I hope I'm not getting sick.
The thing is, I wouldn't be appalled to see that in a precalculus or even calculus student. It's just that this kid has Teflon memory for math and is in upper level math classes somehow.
Can someone like this handle a technical STEM-ish career, and therefore we ought to find a way to train them? Or ought someone like this be redirected ASAP? I have a poor understanding of how our curriculum matches the skill set that you need on the job.
Maybe he meant for X = 0.5 ± 1.6583i
WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE STUDENTS. You cannot cancel the xs in x-xy' and just work with y'. That is stupid.
For some reason I thought most of your students wanted to be math teachers.
Usually 1/3 of them do, or so. I don't know if that kid does or not.
Differential equations involve an awful lot of writing. Hard to blame them for just wanting to skip ahead.
Yeah, I would have said can't handle a STEM career, but if he wants to teach it.... that's kind of worse, isn't it?
Presumably at some point something will prevent these people from advancing, right? Do they have to take the GRE or something? Does dip eventually get banned?
This might be roadblock that is supposed to happen. It seems later in a student's career than is optimal, but you also want to give a kid a real chance to succeed. I dunno.
Does the dude seem to grasp the concepts that don't involve (really) simple algebra?
I don't know. If I had to guess, he grasps things in the moment and retains nothing.
What I don't get about your students (I mean the ones you complain about like this) is why they want to pass your class. Wouldn't you think someone that lost would have started avoiding math once they got out of high school and had choices?
I don't think of him as lost. I think of him as forging boldly ahead, unconcerned that his ruggedly independent cowboy algebra doesn't gain the support of the eastern math establishment.
Yeah, I don't get why they pursue these math classes either. I mean, a gateway course for your pre-med student or something is totally understandable.
I think sometimes they loathe reading and writing and therefore have gone in the opposite direction, and whatever has them so entirely sunk in reading/writing is also sabotaging them in their math class.
They have been at the meetup for at least 35 minutes now. What's the hold-up?
Queso is a perfectly valid name for a dish.
Are we sure it's not just m/tch saying hi a bunch of times?
HOT DAMN LIVEBLOGGING
No, come on, though. Keep at it.
Damn, makes me wish I was still in TX.
160 and its predecessors perplex me. Sure, cheese is a great food, but I feel like there must be more to this linguistically-abusive dish.
It confuses me too. Maybe it's just a big glass full of cheese?
I think it's like a bowl or something.
Queso is the group hug of foodstuffs.
We all now have beer-malaria.
My beer tastes like delicious delicious banana bread.
People should probably never tell me anything.
M/tch is drinking banana bread. I'm not even kidding.
N+13
My belfry taxpayers like delicious delicious banker breast.
Smearcase: YOU ARE TOTALLY RIGHT.
We looked up our Austin friends on Facebook, and they are definitely facebook friends with your friend. I can't imagine how you pieced this together, but I stand corrected.
184: All was revealed, and they took it in stride, and are lovely people. Anyways, that's so crazy and hilarious!
Now: afterparty at Chez M/llsKraab!
Tequila and Eau de Douglas Fir!!!
I might need more placating at some point, because I'm pretty sure I kicked off the whole coincidence by being a jerk about a what turned out to be some totally nice people.
Also, uh, the mutual friends don't know I have a secret identity...
This is a model of fantastic live-blogging. Future attendees of meet-ups take note.
It's now morning. Kraab and Smearcase have resumed yarn talk.
Also, lest anyone get the wrong impression, in 186 I meant "Eau de Vie de Douglas Fir". I don't want anyone to think there was any Canadian perfume involved in last night's revelries.
Eau de Venus in Firs? Is that what you said?
I met a friend out for beers last night and we talked about stuff.
(I am placating hg in sanctified OBC.)
We have collectively decided to refer to Smearcase as "Señor Smearqueso" during the remainder of his sojourn in Texas.
Thanks to everyone for a great night (especially the kind strangers who are probably not reading this but helped lessen some flat-tire related transportation hijinks).
The party crasher from the land of the world's largest ketchup bottle may pseud-up soon. . .
197: Hooray! I think she'd fit right in.
That was a fun night. Let's do it again soon. Maybe around freight train's visit?
All I can find online is the world's largest catsup bottle.
199: Try searching in meatspace instead.
You put meatspace in your catsupspace?
The world's largest meat bottle?
No results found for "the world's largest meat bottle".
I found the world's largest ballerina clown, does that help?
And the world's largest replica cheese! It's amazing, because a real cheese, sure, fine, but a replica cheese you really have to work on getting the details right.
Huh, and they have the world's smallest version of the world's largest replica cheese right in the same place! We should find some lurkers there!
Well, at least you're live-blogging your discoveries.
They don't call you tweet-y for nothing.
I need to amend 195. "Señor Smearqueso" s/b "Señor Esmirqueso".