This can't be true! Morgan promised me she would spend that week with me!
I'm afraid that I'll have to be out of town that week.
I can't do Friday 18th or Tuesday 22nd. Anything else should be fine.
Fridays bad for me: otherwise I'm anyone's. What part of town will J and MF be in?
I probably can't do any day after the 21st [as I'm off to Boston/Cambridge (US) for work]. 20th might be tricky too, if I'm flying out the next day. I might be able to make the 18th or 19th, though.
7: Do you think that you will be able to attend a meetup in MA?
So the 19th then? As long as people are okay with early evening; we're going to the Arsenal match but I think it's a 3 pm kickoff. We're staying in Islington.
Islington is my (worktiems) manor so I am happy to be thereabouts but it might be a bit of a shlep for e.g. ttaM? Tho I guess Angel tube is only one stop up from Kings X and four from London Bridge.
19th works for me. If it's going to be in Islington, I'd recommend the Mucky Pup. Could be fairly loud on a Saturday, but most places would be.
We certainly don't have to go somewhere in Islington on my account! If there's somewhere else that's more convenient for everyone I'm happy to travel a bit.
Likely less crowded on a Saturday -- and larger and has fancy ales and such, plus is closer to Angel -- is Craft Beer Co in White Lion Street.
However, yes, the out-of-towners should probably steer us.
Haven't been to the one in Islington but the one in Clerkenwell was pretty good. Had a tasting session there with my work's beer club about six months ago. They do food as well, whereas the Mucky Pup is nibbles only (nice ones, mind).
Islington doesn't suffer from the quite bad noisiness problems the Clerkenwell one has.
The Craft Beer place sounds good to me, though i don't think I have been there. It's certainly convenient to the uragndia, though that's entirely pointless to lknow on a Saturday.
Always happy to go to Islington, land of my forefathers and so on, before my parents made the hazardous journey Sith if the river. 19th fine as far as I know.
15: THIS IS GOOD TO HEAR
Serious recent discussion among my beer snob pals: which would be the first new craft bar/pub to carpet the ceiling? The trend has been for shiny acoutrements, large rooms, polished wood floors, bright white minimalist wallspace and such. The result is that clatter is very much magnified, everyone talking louder and louder to be heard (the Craft Beer Co in Clerkenwell is particularly bad for this, in my experience).* The carpets in old-school pubs were not necessarily things of beauty, especially the older ones, and ditto the naff flock wallpaper -- but it turns out this all served a purpose!
*The Islington one seems to have learnt the lesson, though sadly they haven't carpeted the ceiling.
The Lowlander is seriously noisy for all the reasons you describe.
The oft first-suggested Lord Hobo recently added a bunch of carpeted pads to the walls, the high tin ceilings, exposed metal ductwork and bare painted walls having made things unsurprisingly clamorous when it's crowded.
I have been cogitating how to make a room in our house un-clamorous without making it look like a 1970s fest. I think I just have my choice of 1970s fests: I could possibly do wall hangings and a plastered/coffered ceiling made of... something sound-deadening. Naff Elvish Edwardian, rather than hi-fi hi-tech fern bar.
Other than that, are there any other Seattlite unfoggeders? Mini-meetup?
I'm sorry I missed the Portlanders several times this summer. Someday I will be in Portland without a rush schedule or carload of valuables.
The ceilings of my apartment are now textured. I suppose it does reduce sound, but I hadn't noticed, as it's pretty quiet here nowadays. I only suspect it to get quieter and am not displeased at the idea at all.
I miss how my hi-fi* sounded in our last place. We had a really big open living room [huge by UK standards] and with the carpeted floor and lots of bookshelves it was just about perfect for the size of speakers. Current place has a tiny living room, and it's really a bit too much hi-fi for the space.
* still broken until I can get someone to repair an old-ish amp, which is driving me crazy.
So did we settle on Craft Beer Company on Islington? What time makes sense... 7?
19th is now no good for me, but it's possible the 18th won't be great either, so I'll just try to fit around whatever plans people make.
I might make the 18th.
19th is probably best for me, but I'm fairly flexible.
18 is really bad for me. 19 is what I had pencilled in.
But 18 I will be moving into a new flat in Ely. It's so wonderful to be welcomed by the fens!
With the understanding that it might not happen, the idea that ttaM may well undertake a sort of intercontinental meetup crawl is kind of awesome. Has anybody done that before?
Without the Concorde, it just wouldn't be right.
The sexier A-list commenters already had an international meetup on the billionaire lurker's Gulfstream. Sorry, wasn't supposed to reveal that if you weren't invited.
Moby, are you attempting to have a serious political conversation on Twitter? Because it appears that you are.
33 probably violates some BS sanctity of yada yada rule. But not as badly as 32.
19 is better than 18 for me, as 18 is otherwise booked (though moveable). Isn't 18 also the day Josh is actually flying?
The time confusion between dates and comment numbers led to wacky misunderstandings.
But, in all seriousness, I'm so obviously right.
Does anyone have more of a clue about what's going on with the debt ceiling than I do? I haven't found any very enlightening news source with the latest updates, and I want to know how much of my impending eight-hour flight to spend panicking.
If you're flying U.S. Air, I recommend spending the whole flight panicking regardless.
On the debt ceiling, the Senate is going to pass a deal that provides a clean, but short-term, CR and debt ceiling increase (i.e. without any other provisions fucking with Obamacare or whatever). The House will then pass this same deal with all Democrats being joined by a few Republicans who haven't gone full-asshole. Then, this will be repeated in a few months.
I'd say 2.5 key pinch points as I understand it (and I'm not sure which order)--and the .5 may be wrong.
1) Will Boehner allow a vote -- most think yes.
1.b) I've seen some concern that the Rules Committee might have to do something something and it is chockfull o'wingnuts. (they did restrict one route Dems could have taken in anticipation, but not sure if they have to do some routine thing even if Boehner/Cantor want to proceed).
2) Cruz/Lee don't push it out a few days using Senate procedures.
So, assuming that you have appropriately reflected the underlying governmental dysfunction in your baseline panic-level no need to dramatically adjust.
Markets up >1%, I'm wondering if I should sell things now in anticipation of the House being assholes again. If there's one thing you can count on...
44: Don't think of it as harmful government dysfunction, but rather new arena for exciting day-trader action!
Cruz/Lee don't push it out a few days using Senate procedures
They probably will (Cruz is raising mad campaign funds from this), but if there's a known limit on how long they block things (because it is known there aren't enough votes to filibuster), I think somebody will figure a way to define a default something else or otherwise work the numbers.
I guess 45 is actually just boring old disaster capitalism.
The Swiss Air dude working at the gate is for some reason shouting out the announcements in a disconcerting manner that I can't really figure out how to describe without violating Godwin's law.
I'm taking my guess from Robert Costa's twitter feed. He's at NRO, but he's been first and right for most of this.
Should we be doing this in the London Meetup thread?
We're worse than Hitler Swiss Air gate agents.
Whatever else you say about Swiss Air, you've got to admit that their tail logo is a big plus.
Yglesias is semi-optimistic, and I think he's making sense. Certainly, it was good news that Boehner wasn't able to get his caucus to agree on anything.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/10/16/closer_than_ever_to_a_deal.html
50: Fuck the London Meetup thread; how many divisions does it have?
35: not flying, taking the train in from Paris. So I could do the 18th, but it sounds like Saturday works better for more people.
Sorry for threadjacking. I'm bad about that.
56: Never use the suffix "jacking" in an airport.
Or "the lift." You need to be careful when you talk there.
Sorry for continuing the threadjill. But if a new thread appeared to discuss the ongoing craziness I might move to it depending on concessions from the FPPs.
What if they refuse to negotiate with a gun to their heads?
I'm still a bit confused on the "threat" to Boehner's speakership, is everyone assuming that even the "moderate" Reps would vote en bloc for a true nutter and not go full RINO and join Dems in retaining Boehner? Or something like that.
61: Right. Swiss air gate agents are selected for being tough and steadfast.
I think the threat is that the true nutters and the RINOs are both starting to think he is a horrible leader regardless of his policy views.
I don't know if he is a horrible leader or if the people he is leading are so horrible that nobody could lead them. It's not really a question that matters to me.
62: Just about every Republican is worried about getting primaried from the right, so a bipartisan vote to retain Boehner is unappealing. In the event that Boehner goes it's likely that someone like Cantor or Ryan will be selected speaker. Someone far enough right to keep the Tea Party caucus happy but not so far out that the moderates will balk.
The speaker doesn't have to be a member of the House. Boehner's hemorrhoid could be selected outright.
I find it super-threatening when Moby uses a voice, as in 46, that is entirely at odds with everything he has written before. Are we sure that Moby is really Moby? Are we sure of anything anymore?
Also, if this deals goes through and democracy is saved, I think Halford owes me some beef jerky and a Raul Mondesi bobblehead.
Sorry, that should have been "democracy".
Now that I think about it, why does it matter that a non-member can serve as Speaker? Presumably what matters is who is expected to lead the caucus, and if they picked a neutral respected caretaker, the locus in the caucus would shift to the majority leader.
Although maybe there's some inherent power in determining what comes up for a vote, I don't know.
Are we allowed to criticize Obama's past negotiating style yet? I mean, even if we haven't been in the room.
68: Sequester-related cuts mean that only 75% of my usual staff is available to write comments for me.
72: Or so Kenneth Arrow would have you think.
73: Yes. Using the previous debt ceiling crisis as an excuse for a "grand bargain" established the precedent that if Republicans throw a fit over the debt ceiling, they get a cookie.
Now, I am not naive enough to assume that the sequester deal itself was bad negotiating on Obama's part - it seems more likely that he actually did want to cut some kinds of government spending and was a little disappointed social security and medicare weren't on the chopping block - but I am pretty sure he didn't intend the make this into a regular thing.
Not that the tea party Republicans have negotiated particularly well either.
I mean, even if we haven't been in the room.
Is this directed at me?
Their strategy is stupid and a president less full of himself could have easily won the first time around. They only got something because of a fairly improbable unforced error on Obama's part. There's plenty they could have done to make Obamacare smaller and more business-friendly if they'd adopted a cannier strategy.
Yeah, in part. It came off less light-hearted and more petulant than intended.
Well, let me amend that - their strategy is stupid if what they want to do is exert an optimal (by their lights) influence on policy. It is not so stupid if they are unambitious enough to want only to be re-elected for a few years.
84: oh, okay. I suppose, since you brought it up, that I should say again that I'm sorry that I offended you that time, but also that I really didn't intend to suggest that you couldn't say whatever you wanted to say. It was a useful lesson for me about tone on the internet.
As for this other thing, I don't care if people want to ascribe motivations to politicians -- because narrative allows us to make sense of the world -- or believe they understand the nuances of negotiations that happen behind closed doors among people who are the best liars in the world. I just think it's worth considering the limits of what's knowable in situations like these.
All of that said, I think everybody, including Obama himself, now understands that he completely fucked up the 2011 negotiations (among many other fuck ups, that was, in my view, in his top five), that he totally underestimated the bad faith of the GOP congressional caucus, and that he hadn't yet abandoned the dream that he could somehow rise about partisan concerns. Oops!
86: No need to apologize; I was having a bad week and was less than fully aware of my own emotional state and how personally I was taking things.
It's certainly good to be reminded of the limits of knowlege, but, as a tactical matter, I think you've been more persuasive in the past when you've offered possible alternate narratives.
Underestimating the bad faith of the GOP and placing too much emphasis on being nonpartisan seem like flaws that would've effected more than just the 2011 negotiations, and these more or less reflect criticisms people made at the time.
On topic, unfortunately I can't make it, as I have to work both the 19th and the 20th and it is just too awkward to try to get there and back in a reasonable amount of time. I hope y'all have fun. Josh, do let me know if you'll be in Oxford. Who knows, I might actually be able to make it.
Can we have a make your mind up moment about the date?
Plurality of those expressing an interest continues to favour the 19th.
As do I, to be less pass-agg about it.
I'll allow that, but only if we defund Obamacare.
Yeah, the 19th it is at 7. Sorry you guys can't make it, ttaM and Paren!
By the way, since this is the Brit thread, I should say that I've been reading Nworb's book about Sweden, which I ordered during the Denmark thread a few weeks ago. The book is equally an essay about Sweden and a memoir about Nworb and fishing.
It is really a fantastic, unique book and everyone should read it. I personally found it deeply emotionally moving, and Nworb is an incredible writer. But even putting that aside, it's the best meditation on what it means to have a social democracy and what it means to lose it that I have ever read. Also, not boring. Can't recommend it highly enough.
95: Thank you for saying that. I've just ordered it and it does sound great!
Actually, Stormcrow shouldn't read it. That asshole doesn't deserve joy.
So I have to read every goddamn obscure thread now to monitor whether I'm suffering some calumny at the hands of the IP Terrorism Cabal?
95: how would you compare it to Independent People?
Start issuing takedown notices.
A thread so obscure that more than a tenth of the posts are yours.
It is not very much at all like Independent People. Except inasmuch as they are both good books.
99: That is what I was thinking as well.
I went to the Amazon and was amused (Nworb might be less so) to find some crank had left a one-star review claiming a Graeber Error.
The research and fact-checking in this book are terrible. Brown claims the population of Sweden is about twice that of Washington DC, in the course of an examination of Swedish crime rates. In fact, it is 15 times as large. This is quite possibly the worst statistical error I have ever seen anywhere, and this makes it difficult to take the rest of the book seriously.I tried to find any relevant passages via Look Inside but could not, and I suspect (as did someone who left a comment to the review) that if the comparison was made it was to the metro area where the ratio is correct.
But for some reason "This is quite possibly the worst statistical error I have ever seen anywhere" struck me as being up there with "I am aware of all internet traditions."
The comparison would have to be to the Baltimore-Washington CSA, but in that case it is indeed quite exact.
Er wait, no, the CSA population is almost the same as the population of Sweden. I wish I knew how to read.
101: Yes. And your point? I commented on this thread before it sold out, man.
Or wait, that's the wrong way around. <Random hostility! Random hostility! Random hostility! Lashing out!>
re: 94
No problem. My mum is coming into town at the last minute, and that's the only day we can meet up before I fly to the US. Sorry!
Do we need to establish visual recognition protocols?
Bring a rolled-up copy of the London phone book?
What, the traditional meetup call doesn't work on this side of the Atlantic?
I'm ginger with glasses, and I'll be wearing a Captain Hammer t-shirt. And if nobody else has arrived yet, I'll probably be wearing over-ear headphones and reading a Kindle.
110. They might not understand your accent. There's a picture of Werdna on his blog.
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't -- ted cruz changed everything.
I'm in black hoodie w/a blue jumper. Pointlessly tiny beard, glasses.
I've been consistently surprised by how easy it is to identify people in a bar based only on the fact that they're looking for people they don't know by sight. It's a very distinctive way of looking around.
I mean, when it actually starts.
I may not be able to make this, after all. I just moved into my new flat in ely yesterday and in the course of that managed to lose a purse with three bank/credit cards in it. I have spares, so to say, and nothing appears to be missing on anything, but it sucked an hour of the day to cancel them all, ring the police, etc; another three hours have been spent dealing with an aged mother crisis and getting stuff out of the marital home. Not sure I am up to an evening out 70 miles away on top of all that. Will determine after I've done what needs doing here.
95: thank you very much indeed.
110, 112 Then just hold up a large sign with the code word written on it like you're a limo driver waiting for that particular passenger at the airport. That's what I did my first time at Fresh Salt.
118: I just bought and read it on Halford's recommendation, and he's right, it really is wonderful. Thanks for writing it.
118: I just bought and read it on Halford's recommendation, and he's right, it really is wonderful. Thanks for writing it.
Now I feel guilty* for never finishing Ari Kelman's book, which I started after unfoggedcon -- I got distracted and never returned to it. This summer was not good for reading for me.
* Okay, only slightly guilty and slightly sad because I really haven't been reading anything interesting lately.
This last couple of years has been bad for reading for me. I used to read fiction, and light non-fiction, compulsively, like Belle Waring just posted about at CT. Somehow this turned into compulsive clicking on websites I've already read -- like the relationship between actually watching TV and one of those maniacs with the remote control who never settles on anything.
I'm on a train in now. So will be wherever it is by about seven. Bald bloke with a bicycle helmet near him
I will say that the other thread about job-hunting reminded me how much I appreciate the fact that my job is not soul-crushing, even when it is taking up a lot of mental energy.
Headed out shortly (currently trying to register my fucking prepaid SIM on T-Mobile's atrocious site). Jeans, grey cardigan, blue scarf, glasses.
currently trying to register my fucking prepaid SIM on T-Mobile's atrocious site
Good luck with that!
127: I gave up and called support... and apparently I can't top up with a non-UK account. So now I have to find an EE store or just go with someone else. Any recommendations?
Aw, I wish I could be there. But I'm exhausted and I just got home. Have fun!
123: This describes me pretty well (grad school completely killed my pleasure reading habits, beyond internet reading). I've been out for a couple of years, and hadn't seen much progress until I started reading on the iPad this summer (and now on the iPhone, which by god I would never have thought I'd do). All of a sudden, I'm back to my old self. It's both awesome and unsettling that I've apparently transitioned to preferring e-books to real books. What's wrong with me?
I read on my phone a fair bit as well: it's always right there with me when I have a moment, and I can buy something fresh anywhere I have a signal.
liveblogging begins: I have a table (in the room up the two steps), and as it is HOT here I took my blue jumper off and now have a tangerine T. See ppl soon!
I didn't look around that carefully for Ufers I knew bcz I didn't want to lose this table.
liveblogging begins: I have a table (in the room up the two steps), and as it is HOT here I took my blue jumper off and now have a tangerine T. See ppl soon!
I didn't look around that carefully for Ufers I knew bcz I didn't want to lose this table.
128. Only in the negative sense that I moved from Vodaphone to T-Mobile because their site was even worse, so I advise giving them a miss.
I think reading on your phone makes perfect sense for people who commute. I am a 10 minute walk from work; I'm just sitting there on the couch reading on my phone. (Or at work.)
For awhile, I became very obsessed with cataloguing which books I should be reading (endless lists) and obtaining them, and then excessively obsessively organising them on my various devices. Then I realised I should just start fucking reading.
133. Spill your pint? Liveblogging!!!!!!
I now have a second unpaid book reviewing gig. I have no idea where I am going to find the time to read more.
Has liveblogging ended? Give me my liveblogging fix!
139: Frowner has mentioned that essay before too, suppose I should read it now.
Actually reading it would be contrary to the spirit of the essay. Just tell us all it's essential reading.
A short review of a line or two might be useful.
Pretty accurate. No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money, after all.
The gist is that you need to believe in yourself.
Josh is off the hook for liveblogging. Networking is hard, apparently. The rest of us are lazy and anti-social. Fuck you.
The gloomy pub pianist is playing the Human League.
The pianist makes everything sound like everything else. Earlier he was playing Stone Roses, who matter somewhat to Alex. They did not kill.
And I have returned to Ely. But it was good to meet Josh, and remeet the others. Most expensive keg beer I have ever drunk in England, too!
We are discussing LEGAL SEAFOOD.
The name intrigued me and I made Josh back up.
Now we are examining ways in which the UK is littler the US.
Now we are celebrating the awesomeness of London buses.
Ginger Yellow is arguing that you the world are subsidising we the daily bus user. This is good, we all agree.
I don't think there is any meaningful sense in which the UK is littler the US.
Genitals are meaningful to some people.
Everything discussed explained and sorted, and we are variously off home. Liveblogging concludes.
Hey, I have network service again! No thanks to either T-Mobile or Verizon. Meetup's broken up and now I'm waiting for my bus. Thanks for coming out, y'all!
