It makes pop genetics seem like it follows in the tradition of astrology more than science.
I dunno if that's a fair analogy. Also, it's banned.
Anyhow, I feel like they aren't just making stuff up out of whole cloth (or if not whole cloth, then from fragments themselves made up from whole cloth at some past moment). SNP assessments just are a really noisy measure of the genome, and not terribly well suited to giving you information about an individual. There are probably some blockbuster mutations where all of the companies are going to tell you the same thing -- things like BRCA or whatever -- but mostly their assessments are going to be really noisy and confounded by the population they're comparing against and so on. All the things people say, in other words.
No, but it's catering to the same desire in people that sends them to the gypsy tent at the fair.
To get away from the pervasive stench of deep fried butter?
2: the desire to know about themselves? I mean, sure, but I don't think that's quite the problem with astrology. The genetic testing services are giving you real information, if noisy and contradictory. Astrology is just feeding you generic bullshit that can fit whatever preconceptions you have. It could easily be (probably is) that the testing services don't do a good enough job of explaining just how noisy things are, but it still seems categorically different than making up some bullshit divination.
Sorry, the desire to know about themselves and be less completely engulfed in fried-butterstench.
There are probably some blockbuster mutations where all of the companies are going to tell you the same thing -- things like BRCA or whatever -- but mostly their assessments are going to be really noisy and confounded by the population they're comparing against and so on. All the things people say, in other words.
All the more reason, as I said on the other thread, why the likes of 23andMe shouldn't be allowed to make health-related claims in their test results unless they can back them up to an FDA/MHRA/NICE/whatever standard.
I'm going to open up a traveling booth that predicts your future based on a live reading of a PET scan.
6: I'm not particularly arguing against that. Although, I'm not particularly arguing against that at least in part because I'm not remotely informed enough about what they actually say.
"There's your lifeline! Oh wait, that's your pituitary."
"I found your missing thumb drive."
7: "Step right up and allow me to inject this radioactive substance, then go away for an hour and ride some rides and then step right up and hear your future told!"
"You're about to pass a lot of gas."
For the record, the line quoted in 1 is not an analogy.
Or, I dunno it could be. It plausibly is.
Hmm. Quite often, the line between science and magic is a question of how well specified things are. I can well imagine that you might fool yourself and your patients that you're providing real information when in fact you're just imagining patterns in a wall of noise, all the more easily with the aid of the technology.
you might fool yourself and your patients that you're providing real information when in fact you're just imagining patterns in a wall of noise
Like using fMRI to read the mind of a dead salmon. http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/scicurious-brain/2012/09/25/ignobel-prize-in-neuroscience-the-dead-salmon-study/
DON'T KNOCK THE THINGS YOU CAN LEARN FROM A DEAD SALMON.
Hey wait, Saturn returns are real.
I thought they were supposed to be very reliable cars.
We ordered our brick, but technically past the deadline, and on my phone, but they did take our money, so. Errors may abound. We went with "ceci n'est pas les [last names]." The "une brique" version didn't quite work for me.
Oh, I hope you didn't put an 's' on the end.
Time to be excited about memorializing your family's non-grammatical French for the next 50 years!
I'm not too bothered. I could probably email them.
I assume I said "This is not the [lastnames]" as opposed to "These are not the [lastnames]".
"ceci n'est" is third person singular but then you used a third person plural article, les.
I know I seem bothered but I'm really just curious.
28: I think that's grammatical, though. "ceci" refers to a singular object, the brick, and agrees with "est", which is also third person singular. And "les" refers to "[lastnames]" which is plural.
"This is not the Lastnames" is OK in English, why shouldn't it be in French?
But that is correct. This (brick) is not the Geebies.
"This is not the Lastnames" is OK in English, why shouldn't it be in French?
Well, it should be "This is not the Lastname" in French, for a start. I'm not too fussed about "ceci n'est", given the context, but I'm not sure how a French person would view it. It "should" be "Ce ne sont pas", I think. And possibly "des" rather than "les", though it seems weird with a proper noun.
So the s on the end of Geebie is the problem?
22, 31: The "une brique" version didn't quite work for me.
Me either. Good modification.
I think I'll just leave it alone. "This is not the Geebie" seems weird.
12: I had an ultrasound once and the tech said that to me.
I think I'll just leave it alone. "This is not the Geebie" seems weird.
Well, yeah, because that's not how we do it in English.
In my version of Texas, the "English Only" people will refuse to print this brick. Also they will think it's in Spanish.
If it is ungrammatical the problem might be that in French, the form of "to be" must accord with "the Geebies" rather than "this".
So in French you would say, "This are not the Geebies". And when you think about it, it's fairly arbitrary as to which grammatical rule a language would apply in that circumstance. So no need to fault the French for that one.
Not very different from "Arsenal are" or whatever they say in KCI.
Ceci needs to stand in for the object and act as the subject, so the joke doesn't really work at all with "Les Geebies." "Ce ne sont pas les Geebies." Better stick to English -- "This is not the Geebie family brick."
39: ah, thanks. Is that actually true of French or just your theory?
I'm not big on grammar theory, but I don't think 39 is right. The problem has to do with "Ceci"; it's a singular pronoun and needs a singular referent. Thinking about it, "This is not the oranges" is not grammatical in English, either; it feels even more jarring in French to me for some possibly wrong reason.
I think "This is not the oranges" would make sense in plenty of contexts, like if you're trying to sort out shipping crates.
And not just make sense, TBC, but sound right as well.
"This is not the oranges" is not grammatical in English, either
I think it's grammatical, just factually jarring -- you were expecting a plural object and encountered a singular one. If you open a box labeled "Sunkist Orchards, one dozen", and a bobcat leaps out of it, "This is not the oranges" would be a grammatical reaction to have.
Maybe, but not if you're thinking of "oranges" seriously as a plural, as opposed to a singular category description.
In any case, "The Geebies" is apparently plural but, I would argue, functionally singular. It's referring to a family unit. Imagine looking at photos from a party: "This is alameida, this is Natilo and Apo, this is ttaM, this is the Geebies - no, wait, this isn't the Geebies, this is just LB and that damn bobcat."
49 - Yeah but since French is a different language maybe things work differently, you know?
Hey, no badmouthing the bobcat. I'm very fond of my imaginary bobcat.
Ceci n'est pas
la brique que
vous cherchez.
LB only opens boxes of oranges while on quaaludes.
Ceci n'est pas la brique que nous cherchons.
51% Of People Think Stormy Weather Affects 'Cloud Computing'. If the 'cloud' were on a zeppelin it might!
Hey, no badmouthing the bobcat. I'm very fond of my imaginary bobcat.
You just need to buy an office chair instead of oranges.
I'm rusty and probably wrong, but ceci basically means "this thing here" (as opposed to "that thing there"). Think of someone pointing to the object in question. You could either say Ceux-ci ne sont pas les Geebies ("These things/people here are not the Geebies") or Ceci n'est pas les Geebies ("This thing here is not the Geebies.") which would make sense for something like a statue where it's a single object. Which I guessed is exactly what 49 says but with the added value of the proper plural sentence.
Life is like a brick of oranges:
it doesn't make much sense.
I guess, ugh. All grammar used up on the French plurals.
One of these days we should have a thread where we all attempt to communicate in French (or Spanish or what have you.) But I think I would only be able to contribute after a few drinks.
Driving on the interstate in NJ, there's an exit sign for The Oranges. You could end up in Perth Amboy and say 'This is not The Oranges.'
I vaguely remember learning that the French would say La famille Geebie.
Yes, they would. So it's wrong but for a different reason.
Then they would spit, down a glass of red wine, and do some improvisational miming.
Bobcats are even more real than Saturn Returns.
French does use the "les" formulation to refer to families, so you could use "Les Geebie" (singular end, just whatever the last name is) as a reference to the family. But in this context you'd probably say "Ceci n'est pas la famille Geebie" to avoid the problem we're talking about.
Ce ne sont pas les chats sauvages. Ils sont de Weber.
I'm assuming that's about your grill.
CeciCelle-ci n'est pas la famille Geebie.
I think changing it much makes the joke unrecognizable, unfortunately.
I think changing the reference from the brick in view to a family is already changing the joke a lot. Maybe include a link to this thread?
Actually, I think you could say "Ceci n'est pas la famille Geebie" though we're now really stretching it beyond the bounds of possible humor.
And it's grammatically weird. Anyhow, "stick to jokes in a language you speak well" is a good rule.
78: Unrecognizable to the audience in Heebietown, at least?
79: Maybe, but I'm still very fond of my "Vamos, es un libro de cocina" joke.
That one was good enough for all to be forgiven.
I agree with 73. And I would go back to "Ceci n'est pas une brique", and add "Et nous ne sommes pas les Geebie".
But I'm someone who studied French for five years and didn't know that it should be "les Geebie" instead of "les Geebies", so who knows.
?? "Ceci n'est pas une pipe" is a sentence that makes sense on a painting of a pipe, but which would be false if engraved on an actual pipe.
86: Falsity is a virtue in the world according to nosflow?
It is so clear that my version is perfectly fine. Thanks, all!
89: There's still time to change it, heebie.
You could say instead,
"We purchased the right
To say something on this brick.
Too late, we discovered
We have nothing to say.
Our sincere apologies,
The Heebie-Geebies"
85: but which would be false if engraved on an actual pipe
Possibly. Beneath the signifier lies the chasm.
Today's another travel day (the last) so I'm sporadic. Regularly scheduled programming returns tomorrow.
85 (92): "Ceci n'est pas une brique, ceci est un message inscrivent sur une brique."
"Ceci est votre perception d'un message inscrit sur un brique."
43: My training in French ended at age 16, so forgive my hesitancy, but I'm pretty sure it's right. The problem isn't only with the use of "ceci". You wouldn't say "ce n'est pas les Heebies" either, you'd say "ce ne sont pas les Heebies," which is, literally translated, "this aren't the Heebies."
Cette brique a été faite à New York!
À New York?
Obtenez une corde.
44: In English you would say, "this is not among our problems." In French I'm not sure -- would the form of "to be" need to be plural?
Ce ne sont pas ____ notre problems? Je ne sait pas le mot por "among."
Couldn't you just use the article "de"? In any case I think this example supports my theory.
I suppose you could use 'de', I was thinking something more like 'entre', but thats 'between.'
I always thought of entre as being more "within". But only physically. I'm pretty sure that "de" would be most appropriate.
I'm pretty sure that the preposition wanted is "parmi," but I'd like to go on record saying that tinkering with a witticism in a foreign language is probably a doomed project.
Blume thinks it's hilarious when I try to invent jokes in German.
Remember those kids in high school who thought they were so clever saying "semper ubi sub ubi"?
Mere hahn kay miggebletch. I swear it cracks them up every time.
Bishdo mead works pretty well to, as well as eliciting useful information.
Shut up it'll be a great brique.
I would say I was surprised that this thread about DNA testing turned into a discussion of French grammar, but I'm actually not.
Because on the veldt, people who were surprised got eaten by lions.
Who could have imagined that a stupid joke created with the aid of Google translate could lead to this?
We'll be here all week, try the veldt.
Take the Sudentenland ... please.
Ceci n'est pas
une trahison
ni contient pas
une siglaison
Raser-Burma
Remember those kids in high school who thought they were so clever saying "semper ubi sub ubi"?
I don't get it.
I tried making a French tongue twister once. I came up with, "I only know if it's his sausage."
And I'm sure you'll all tell me that if I translated it properly it wouldn't be a tongue twister.
"Je ne sais que si c'est son saucission"?
Yeah, the "Je ne said que" formulation is probably the correct way to do it but I used the word "seulement" instead. Je sais seulement si c'est son saucisson.
I'm not actually sure it's correct. I initially thought "seulement", but it didn't seem very twisty, so I figured you must have gone the ne...que... route. I'm not sure you can with "si" though.
I learned it as "ce sont six saucissons ci". But it's not a very good tongue twister because the consonants are too constant. Where you trip up with "The Leith police dismisseth us" or "A bloke's back brake block broke" is the irregularities, not the regularities.
