Something else that used to be talked about with polygamy is that it tends to lead to wealthier men with a disproportionate share of wives and poorer men at much more of a disadvantage. This conceives of women as resources rather than people, of course, and I don't have an issue with polyamory, but I still wonder if more widespread polygamy would have a weird impact on society.
Can we find a way to talk about both boobs and polygamy?
Polygamous boobs?
wow a lot of ugly people there, looks like some sort of herd or something, well, to each their own of course, or as they say dont judge and wont be judged either
about the hipster variation of it, must be it is considered much cool if the multiple dates are those artsy opera loving highly pretentio-ironic types
I'm pretty sure that you'd need either strong religious belief or pretty serious coercion to make polygamy work over the long run -- it's just too complicated without a grounding in something beyond the relationship itself.
For similar reasons my folk belief is that at least 95% of people who claim to be "poly" are either just straight up bullshitting themselves or at best describing a romantic situation that has a shelf life of maybe two years max. It is also very possible that I am a conservative (though 85% liberal according to the internet) grouch.
a romantic situation that has a shelf life of maybe two years max
People who make nonstandard choices are subject to all sorts of pressures that make stable relationships difficult.
I assume that as you see same-sex marriage gain acceptance, for example, you'll see the duration of same-sex relationships increase.
Virtually all the kids these days who are known to me personally are dating multiple people or else have trouble dating at all. My sense is that the pretty people all develop multiple relationships amongst themselves and the awkward/plain/nerdy are still alone. As with most things, you benefit most from the new system if you were successful under the old.
I am baffled by why all those women are sharing that doofy-looking dude from Utah, though. I suppose the point is that people stop nagging you about being married and you have relative autonomy because you don't actually have to have too much sex with the guy or spend that much time with him, since there's all the other women around to take the pressure off.
The whole "sister wife" thing sometimes seems to me predicated on the idea that heterosexual marriage is a necessary misery for women - it's unacceptable to be single, your male partner will necessarily want more sex and more partners than you either want or are allowed to have, a family has to produce maximum children and so you accumulate other women around you in order to make the whole thing less awful.
I have friends in an all-women 4 person polyamorous relationship, with a guy who is around occasionally. At first, I spent some mental energy wondering who was in a (sexual) relationship with whom, and trying to keep it all straight, so to speak. After a few years now, it just seems superfluous. They're a family. What's happening with their happy bits is their own business.
I suppose this matches a lot of the arc of general reflection around same-sex relationships, actually: intrigue followed by acceptance.
Older men marrying very young women is a whole different story...
4: I've known a couple for 20 years who have been poly all that time. At this point they seem to have settled into the same few extra relationships.
I'm pretty sure that you'd need either strong religious belief or pretty serious coercion to make polygamy work over the long run -- it's just too complicated without a grounding in something beyond the relationship itself.
Many people say the same thing about strict monogamy.
I did say 95%, not 100%. I'm sure it does work for a few; pretty much anything does. Still, I suspect there is a strong element of internal bullshitting/short shelf life for most. I could be wrong!
By "poly" I should also clarify that I mean a conscious attempt to manage an ongoing more than two person sexual relationship, not just a monogamous relationship that has implicitly or even explicitly tolerated a little bit of sex on the side.
I work in a region where polygamy (really polygyny) is socially normative although rare in practice, partly because marriage rates in general have dramatically declined, and partly because those who can afford to get married tend to adhere to cosmopolitan middle-class ideas about romance and love, which are harder to square with a polygamous marriage. That said, it's not the case that polygamy requires religious belief or coercion. For older wives, it's a way to get help with the household labor. For younger wives, it's often (not always) more desirable to be the second/third wife in a wealthy family than the only wife of a poor man. It is definitely linked to broader systems of patriarchy, particularly the norm of male inheritance of land and livestock.
Anyway, I have amusing conversations with people in this region who find gay relationships unfathomable, but don't believe me when I say that most Americans feel the same about polygamous marriages.
11: But if you have any tips for how to do the second of those things without having le merde hit le fan, let me know.
you'll see the duration of same-sex relationships increase.
Are same-sex relationships shorter than hetero? I wasn't under that impression.
On poly: my parents have friends who have been in stable polyamorous relationships for 30+ years. In that situation, there are sort of a chain of legally married couples, and they play musical chairs for six months of the year.
In the past few years, some of the members of the chain have died or become too frail to fully participate, and they're navigating new challenges that comes with that.
Also I've mentioned the threesome of dads at my daycare.
If the question is, "should we admire this polygamous relationship on TV if its participants seem fairly happy?" it probably depends on how you judge other people's relationships. To admire a relationship, I need to believe that its members would have chosen it in different economic circumstances. And yes, that means that I also don't admire many traditional marriages.
All the same, if I were to somehow acquire two hot wives tomorrow, I'd be ok with that.
14: I believe the CW is that the more males are involved in a relationship the less time the relationship is likely to lasts.
The logistics of 15.1 are a little baffling to me, but I'm sure it works. (I'm not sure how long the chain is, for one thing.) I read a not-so-great memoir by a woman whose diplomat parents decided to break up and remarry the opposite-gender counterparts in a couple that was doing the same and then each set of sisters was raised by a parent/stepparent and visited the other half of things periodically. It seems almost more surprising that that could work, but the parents didn't really weigh in on how satisfying it was for them or anything.
My parents are only friends with a small portion of the chain, and become irritatingly uninformed when you try to ask interesting questions.
17: Yeah, I am merely parroting CW here. A quick Google primarily offers repugnant nonsense from the "pro-family" types. But I don't think I've ever seen anybody on either side of the gay marriage issue contend that gay male relationships last as long, on average, as heterosexual ones. (One obvious rejoinder being: Well, duh, if you don't let people get married, their relationships will be less stable.)
I believe the CW is that the more males are involved in a relationship the less time the relationship is likely to lasts.
I've heard this, too. But on average, are there more males in same-sex relationships than females?
18.2: Sounds similar to the notorious spouse swap involving Yankee pitchers Fritz Peterson and Mike Kekich in the early '70s.I will not that the 40-years after article I linked still uses the term "wife swap" as if the women had no agency in it.
A Yankee Swap for spouses would be most amusing. First person unwraps a spouse. Then the second person unwraps a spouse, but if they like the first spouse better, they get to trade!
Not to brag or anything, but I just had a five-way. I suppose it was technically an extreme five-way since it had habanero cheese rather than just regular.
What goes into a five-way? It can't be all meat and habanero cheese. I suppose I could just google.
Oh, there's no meat in it at all. I could have a five-way and remain a sort-of vegetarian.
They sell spaghetti covered in chili in my grocer's frozen section. I didn't know it was an Ohio thing.
Cincinnati Chili - Italian-Mexican fusion invented in Ohio. Is that conservative or liberal?
Or just a regional shortage of marinara sauce?
Not to brag or anything, but I just had a five-way.
This was quite the thread to drop that in.
28: Greek pretty much through and through, and I think it would be inoffensive if it didn't have the same name as Mexican chili. Five-way is spaghetti, meat, cheese, onions, and beans. And I had a small, but then offset any calorie savings with a great slice of baklava, because the outpost in our town is still Greek-owned, though most aren't.
Must be a regional thing. It's the first I've heard of it.
Totally regional. It's only made it as far as Columbus-Indianapolis-Louisville, though I think there are some Florida Skyline too.
I think Minivet is right in 1 concerning 'traditional' polygamy -- where the head (always male) gets to choose multiple partners but his partners are not allowed to choose their own partners. It's pretty fundamentally linked to a nasty kind of patriarchical hierarchy that harms women and lower-level males. 'Modern' polygamy, where everyone gets to choose partners and there are all these interlocking relationships, seems like a totally different thing. Less oppressive but more exhausting.
Regional. Scroll down to #52 out of 50, just below being hit by a car.
"Cincinnati chili is the worst, saddest, most depressing goddamn thing in the world."
12 is interesting too -- still with the patriarchal hierarchy but sounds less nasty than some examples. Combining a lot of wealth inequality with a practical / transactional view of marriage.
36: How does it rank with chewing paper?
I'm not a big spaghetti fan so it probably wouldn't tempt me, but I suppose to each his or her own, Thorn. The name is interesting. I wonder how it came about. Do you think someone was just standing in a kitchen thinking: "yes, each ingredient is a way."?
39: Since Thorn has identified the dish's origin as Greek, the most likely scenario is that a bunch of fraternity brothers came up with it as a hazing ritual, but then it turned out the pledges liked it.
40: Perhaps it was initially just spaghetti which must be eaten five different ways, that is, through five different orifices. But then someone's parents complained to the stodgy university president who came at once to the fraternity kitchen and said to the cook: ingredients! It must be five ingredients. And the cook said: but our dues can only cover the spaghetti. And then they were all kicked off campus and opened a restaurant.
When the stodgy university president found out what was going on at the restaurant he was even more upset. There was an unfortunate outbreak of cholera and the practice soon ended. But the name lived on.
Perhaps it was the stodgy university president himself who co-opted the name. "Five-way" is so resonant, he said to his sycophantic underlings. "Who wouldn't want it five ways?" And as it was he who first thought that an ingredient could be inaptly considered a way, he created the dish, which happened to be delicious. Or that's what I'm told.
We had Skyline in Lexington and I kind of liked it but, in retrospect, it sounds kind of vile. The keynote is cinnamon, right?
The keynote is cinnamon, right?
I guess you're not much of a cook either.
And chocolate, I believe. I had a couple of roommates in college from Cincinnati, so I've had Cincinnati chili a bunch, and while it's not actually bad if you have no preconceptions whatsoever about what chili means or about what kinds of things it's plausible to pour over spaghetti or a hot dog, it is weird as anything.
44: Cinnamon, clove, that sort of thing, yeah, though all the chili parlors are secretive about their specific spice blends.
Seriously, it's not a total abomination (and I say that as someone who didn't try it until adulthood) but just the kind of spaghetti with meat sauce you'd get in a Greek diner but a little sweeter, with a thin-shredded cheddar blend instead of something goaty, and you can add kidney beans or chopped onions if you so desire. I'm not sure why it has such a mysterious reputation, though the silly names for ordering probably have something to do with that.
I always got a 4-way with beans. The last time I was in Columbus (close to ten years ago), the Skyline tide was retreating and three of them that I used to go to were closed.
48 was posted before seeing LB's 46. I am not going to be argumentative about something I don't really care one way or the other about. I totally agree it's weird, but it's not like that Turkish dessert made out of chicken breasts that I never ate and haven't had the guts to make myself yet.
48. Beg to differ. Greeks don't serve sweet sauces with savory dishes-- which I think is a good choice. In the US, ketchup approaches being thickened soda pop.
Cincinnati chili is an abomiantion because adding a bunch of ingredients suitable to sweet food to a meat sauce is a mistake. Lets not even talk about the yellow substance that passes for cheese in Ohio.
the kind of spaghetti with meat sauce you'd get in a Greek diner but a little sweeter, with a thin-shredded cheddar blend instead of something goaty
The revelation that Greek diners normally put goat cheese on spaghetti bolognese is more horrifying than any of Cincinnati's customs.
Recipe, for anyone who's disbelieving the ingredients.
52: It's not goat cheese like you're thinking of, it's generally kefalotyri or something like that, which is in turn sometimes made from goat's milk.
51: The version that Greeks serve isn't as sweet as Skyline et al., but it's sweeter than, say, a bolognese. Lots of greek meat dishes with cinnamon and other spices on the sweet side of the spectrum.
Now I feel bad that I derailed this entire comment thread with my stupid joke. I've watched the Utah polygamist reality show several times because Lee's a faithful viewer and even read their book, which was interesting for the glimpses of insight into things that were difficult for them but is about what you'd expect. I do suspect they're doing more for same-sex marriage than polygamy acceptance, but that's just a guess based on where public opinion seems to be going anyway.
It's hard not to be flattered when someone is obsessed with you.
Let's as Ms. Foster about that one.
57: Really? That has not been my experience when in your shoes. Maybe your girlfriend would agree with me, though.
OK, having written 51, I'll retract for lamb with walnuts and dates, which is tasty but also sweet. Maybe there are other exceptions too. But chili shouldn't be sweet.
Smearcase Cooter is available as a pseud. Let me be the first to suggest. (I guess Wry Smearcase is as well.)
It's been a while since I had any, but I don't recall it being any sweeter than a mild mole sauce or the kind of tomato sauce you get on pizza at places that cater to children.
I usually add chocolate and cinnamon to my chilli (though I don't serve it with pasta). It's definitely not sweet, though - more in the vein of mole.
I like a lot of sweet-savoury or sweet-sour meat combos -- dried fruit with meat is pretty common in the Mediterranean.
Chilli in the UK seems to always be served with rice, which was not something I had encountered before. I suspect I'd like chilli with spaghetti.
In what I can only assume was a preemptive shot across the bow of the low carb people, Skyline serves it with a side of oyster crackers.
I'm not sure what the difference is between this Cincinnati chili and all the other weird ass wack ass fake ass chili one gets on the East Coast and midwest. Which sometimes is OK poured over a hot dog.
Having never eaten smearcase, I'm not sure if 62 violates the sweet, savory rule.
I made regular chili this weekend. My son wouldn't eat it because beans.
Smearcase's girlfriend must be a remarkably easygoing woman.
But whom among us would not agree that the cuntfucks who feel that they have some kind of geographically-based proprietary rights to things like "chili" are the most annoying cuntfucks of all.
Speaking of the worst people in the whole world: Some are in Wisconsin.
It is interesting how Ohio is sort of inexplicably the grossest state. Not the worst or most evil, but there's just something ineffably gross and kind of sleazy and depressing that seems to stick to it.
but there's just something ineffably gross and kind of sleazy and depressing that seems to stick to it.
I'm sorry! I'm trying a new lotion!
As tempting as it is to leave 78 anonymous, I feel compelled to take credit/blame.
It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the Lake Erie again.
adding a bunch of ingredients suitable to sweet food to a meat sauce is a mistake
I don't understand what the problem is. The cinnamon? Cocoa? Both of those can be tasty in savory dishes. There's cinnamon in lots of curries, for instance.
Nutmeg is a component of Marcella Hazan's bolognese recipe, IIRC. Possibly cinnamon also? Cinnamon and/or nutmeg are common in lots of savory meat-based dishes.
The amount of cloves in that recipe does seem high to me though. Don't mess around with cloves!
My problem is not so much posted recipes, but that the chili as actually served is sweet. and the cheese is nasty.
Sorry Peep. You seem like a nice person and it's not your fault you find yourself in Stormcrow's ineffably gross home state.
Poor Cincinnati; people are defending the ingrediants used by referring to more august culinary traditions, but no one is defending the chili itself.
87: Moby is! And other people said they remember it being tolerable, which is about as far as I would go. Skyline dip (layer of cream cheese, layer of Cincy chili, layer of cheese, cooked until warm and melty and then scooped up on tortilla chips) is disgustingly delicious.
I would try to be more convincing, but I haven't had any in over a decade.
I was also hurt when the Berkeley Economist mocked our native culinary tradition. I would launch a passionate defense, but I've never actually eaten it. I'm not sure when or why I became such a loyal Buckeye.
I missed 31. The rest of your comments have been fairly neutral.
I had it from a can once. A Cinci transplant friend brought it back here and did it up with all the layers. I remember it being fine, like something I can imagine having really been into as a kid.
Sweet chili can be delicious, chili prescriptivists be damned.
I like these things, which are also kind of objectively gross and have weird chili on them but are still less gross b/c not from Ohio and no spaghetti. The mustard and the snap of the hot dog casing go nicely with the weird chili.
I think Skyline calls their hot dogs "Coneys".
96: Indeed. Nia had two, Mara had two bare hot dogs (because she thinks chili is gross because it looks like sloppy joes and they have "sloppy" in the name and are thus inedible) and the baby had spaghetti with a little cheese, with oyster crackers all around as appropriate. Halford's nightmare, but it got us a quick dinner before the parent-teacher org meeting, which was the goal.
Chilli in the UK seems to always be served with rice
IME more often with baked potatoes, but maybe I don't move in such exalted circles as you.
Over here, you can only get baked potatoes with chili at your higher-end establishments. Like Wendy's.
97: Was just mentioning to someone that sloppy joes are a food item that I have not to my knowledge seen nor heard of in years. Do they still exist in any significant way in the culture outside of school cafeterias* and clueless Boy Scout troop leaders? Maybe it's just a function of my not being in Ohio that much anymore.
*Although it may have come to mind as a choice at the hospital--so maybe it is still an institutional staple. I could Google but I leave it to my people to do internet searches.
Kobe: Church picnics and that sort of thing, maybe? I don't think of them as normal adult food at all and am basically on Team Mara about them.
There's probably some chef right now trying to make $15 sloppy joes (made from Kobe beef and heirloom tomatoes) happen.
I *love* sloppy joes. Best sandwiches.
I like liverwurst with mayo on white bread. Or at least I did the last time I had it. I'm too afraid to eat one again.
I think canned sloppy joe meat can still be found plenty of places.
Where I come from, at least among the members of my tribe, a sloppy joe is something entirely different (and really great). I can remember how appalled I was in 3rd grade or so when the school cafeteria gave me a bun soaked in some sort of brown goo and tried to tell me it was a sloppy joe.
The iconic NJ sandwich remains pork roll (Taylor ham)/egg/cheese on a hard roll. It was the only thing I missed when I stopped eating meat at 15 or so. I am in fact still teased about being "vegetarian except for pork roll."
The only Ohio food tradition I'm really on board with is Buckeyes, which are delicious if not fancy. Wikipedia cross-references Cuisines of the Midwestern US which puts Ohio in context as sad even for the region.
Best sandwiches.
They opened a WhichWich a few blocks down the street from my office and I should just get a WhichWich credit card at this point. They give you so many different ways to put hot peppers/sauces/spices on a sandwich! I'll likely blow out all my taste buds by spring. Will Obamacare cover tongue transplants?
100.1: Blume and I had sloppy joes less than a year ago, in Missouri.
If you lick your coverage, you can keep it.
The North Shore roast beef sandwich is an awesome (hyper-)regional sandwich.
107.1 gets it exactly right. Mmmm. I used to permit myself one of those every visit to NJ as an indulgence (lately the visits have been too frequent to indulge every time, but it takes considerable restraint).
I haven't read everyone's comments. But it is interesting to me that the legal problem only occurs if you consider someone your spouse. Three or more people living in uncommitted bliss/misery is perfectly ok. But, the moment that you consider them your spouse, you have legal issues.
I guess it all boils down to property rights and precious marriage benefits. (health insurance/taxes/inheritance) We sure can't share well, can we??!
You're goddamn right we have a problem if you can legally marry a Sloppy Joe.
I try to eat relatively healthy food, but I am a sucker for Sloppy Joes and corndogs.
107: Now I want pork roll. I hate you.
102: The other day I turned on the Food Network and they were showing some kind of big-as-your-head artisanal Sloppy Joe with fresh, upscale ingredients. I don't think it was Kobe beef, but it was moving in that direction.
Now I want pork roll. I hate you.
Scenes from a marriage.
I am interested in short-term, uncommitted, poly or bigamist relationship with both. We could swing with a pork roll and some pho on weekends.
108 The only Ohio food tradition I'm really on board with is Buckeyes, which are delicious if not fancy.
My mom makes those every year around Christmas, except they're fully dipped in chocolate and just called "peanut butter balls" instead of Buckeyes.
You can't dip them all the way in chocolate or the Reese's people will hunt you down and sue you.
Those presumably-Welsh-descended bastards.
112. Places like Kelly's or the late Buzzy's? Ok the latter was by the old house of corrections, so not on the North shore. Now I want a good sandwich.
98: Very possibly it could be idiosyncratic. It's what the in-laws do, and how it's been served the three or four times I've seen it on menus in Oxfordshire. (I have also seen the baked potato version). I just like to extrapolate from my very narrow field of experience!
So when did cake balls become a thing? Like cake in quasi-fondant on a stick. I don't enjoy them very much, although they are pretty.
I make sloppy joe's and buckeyes. It must be the Ohio in me. (Though my mother is from there, and one branch of our family has been resident in Ohio since about 1815, the buckeyes come from another grandma, who, as far as I know, is from the West.)
Sloppy Joes are one of those foods I absolutely despised as a little kid (and would fight about with my mom), only to realize later on, hey, this is awesome; what was I thinking?!
Kids are weird.
130: Cake pops annoy me. Totally irrational, but they do. And I think they've been around for awhile - 2-4years?
They annoy me too. Anything that increases the icing to cake ratio, especially the kind of icing that is for looks and not for taste.
Now I feel bad that I derailed this entire comment thread with my stupid joke.
It was a sex thread. There was really only way it could go, and you showed us the way.
133: Longer than that, maybe? In the last decade, but I'd guess more than five years. And yes, they seem insane and unpleasant to me. (Also, even if a mouthful of cake surrounded by frosting were something you wanted (1) it exists already and is a petit four, and (2) why on earth would you make that at home? The amount of fussing to frost the stupid things would be prohibitive. And I say that as someone with a certain amount of demonstrated tolerance for fussing with decorated baked goods.)
I think Starbucks may have invented cake pops. They showed up among the inedible Starbucks scones and pound cakes at least 5 years ago.
138: I was going to guess longer but second-guessed myself. I know Bakerella popularized them among a certain group, and I'm not sure how long that's been going on.
Godammit, now I want a corn dog. There is nowhere to get a decent corndog at a reasonable price in New York City.
2008 for Bakerella's cake pops. Because I am getting old, I think that is 4 year ago, tops. (I am sure they existed before Bakerella, but that's what I associate them with.)
Once this thread turned to food, I realized how hungry I am.
I, too, want a sloppy joe and corndog and maybe those sauerkraut balls.
The only hyperlocal cuisines I'm aware of being such are the upstate NY ones, beef on weck, garbage plate. Is there something about proximity to the great lakes that destroys your sense of taste and possibly sanity?
The only hyperlocal cuisines I'm aware of being such are the upstate NY ones
I'm not sure what this means, but there are a bunch of hyperlocal foods in New Orleans.
It seems likely I have mentioned one of Kentucky's few local delicacies, the unfortunately named Hot Brown.
I mean local cuisines I'm familiar with that I know are in fact hyperlocal. I'm sure there are ones in NO but I don't know about them.
Beef on weck is 12 gazillion times better than a hot brown. Here I do have opinions!
Because my body is a temple, I was not eating a corndog at the restaurant in the photo from 143.
I was eating a Juicy Lucy.
so will mr autocrat shut the site tonight too? some trolling might help it i guess
if smearcase's hypothetical gf is an easygoing woman must be nosflow's real one is the opposite of that, deductively
i wonder does he circulate his ex's emails among you, you people should demand him to do so, free and awesome entertainment is above all
Ok, so sloppy joes are still a thing I guess. But they seem to have fallen out of my (what is the food equivalent of idiolect?). I'd love to see historical trendlines for consumption per capita for foodstuffs at a detailed level (also broken out by geography and age).
So, Oklahoma. Wind sweeping down plains.
I thought the wind rushed down the plains.
But they seem to have fallen out of my (what is the food equivalent of idiolect?).
Foodulary, I think.
Ideally you'd want to preserve the "idio" part, rather than the "lect" part.
. . . Plen'y of heart and plen'y of hope! . . . Yeeow! A-yip-i-o-ee ay! . . .
Okla. Stat. Ann. 25-94.3
159: Neb's frat boy roots trip him up.
awesome self and impulse control, nosflow, you my favorite, if of that, questionable trust/gentlemanly morals-ethics and true racist, confidante, i applaud
so does that mean my schooling of you works and you wont delete my comments anymore from now on and moreover wont shut down the site whatever i write?! unbelievable! feels like i've won this time for realz
or must be he is just away chaperoning his ex
To the OP, my wife has been watching the show mentioned, and is very interested in it and asked what I think about polygamy. I'm not sure how I should be interpreting this.
171: Which show, the Utah (or I guess really Vegas) one of the hipper polyamory Showtime one?
Ok, so sloppy joes are still a thing I guess. But they seem to have fallen out of my (what is the food equivalent of idiolect?). I'd love to see historical trendlines for consumption per capita for foodstuffs at a detailed level (also broken out by geography and age).
For example, the age curve for sloppy joes would have twice-weekly consumption from age 6 through 14, then zero times a year.
The one with Kody. I watched over her shoulder the episode where they visited our town.
Some people do seem to have tried to start the term "idiocuisine".
Sloppy joes are comfort food, right? That's why they're a regular thing from ages 6-14, then fade away, much like macaroni and cheese. All the mac'n'cheese ads you see on the television feature kids, but they're surely not the only target audience. Don't you want to feel like a kid again?
On hyperlocal foods, I thought for the longest time that scrapple was utterly local to Baltimore, but apparently not, quite. Pennsylvania Dutch, mid-atlantic in general. The Philadelphians know how to do it up:
In the Philadelphia area, scrapple is sometimes fried and then mashed with fried eggs, horseradish, and ketchup.
Oh. Awesome. I'm guessing you're not going to sprinkle some sprouts on there. For color.
||
ATM: I'm maybe looking into buying a condo. My bank gave a recommendation for a real estate agent, but the bank's loan terms turn out to be not quite what I'm looking for, and the agent in turn recommended a broker. Are mortgage brokers contraindicated? And if not, how do I check this guy out before I hand him all my personal information via an online application? He is licensed, I verified that. I don't know the agent well enough yet to trust his say-so 100%.
|>
I used a broker the first time I bought. Extra several hundred dollars but things taken care of more easily. Maybe enough info online that you could figure the same things out yourself. Do be aware of relationships between various parties though, the broker has to stay on good terms with the agent, you're gone once you sign. No one represents you unless they sign something saying so which usually involves additional cash.
176: The folks I know who eat scrapple are from over in the (Shenandoah) Valley, but I've definitely seen it for sale in the grocery store here (Food Lion, specifically). 'Round these parts it goes by the name "pon haus".
asked what I think about polygamy
IT'S A TRAP
I love scrapple. We have it on Christmas morning.
God, I would kill for a Juicy Lucy and fries from this place right about now.
Scrapple is disgusting, and I can say that without ever having tried it, because gross.
On the real estate broker thing, eh, a friend of a friend was once a licensed broker, and put it this way: he lost his own house during the economic downturn. It wasn't the greatest recommendation for brokers, licensing not seeming to mean much. (Also very embarrassing, as we'd gone to his house-warming party, and then had to help him move out a year and a half later. But we got a couch out of it.)
Is there a clearing house or something for brokers, some way to determine whether they're fly-by-night or what? Maybe not. My gut says avoid.
Scrapple is disgusting, and I can say that without ever having tried it, because you have a limited, fearful palate, and also do not enjoy any kind of sausage or charcuterie? Fair.
Thanks, SP and parsimon.
Parsimon, when did that happen? I imagine even a highly competent broker isn't guaranteed enough business to make a living, especially during downturns.
I've tried scrapple. Definitely disgusting. Do you like meat pâté, but wish it was 3/4 grain products and then breaded and fried? Check out scrapple.
Definitely disgusting
meet
Do you like meat pâté, but wish it was 3/4 grain products and then breaded and fried? Check out scrapple.
Because how could that not be delicious?
(It's not breaded, though. And it's hardly 3/4 grain products. There is cornmeal in there.)
It's kinda like, I dunno, sausage loaf.
Standard house-shopping advice, admittedly from back in the day, was that you should get mortgage quotes from as many as possible of (1) large national bank (2) friendly local bank (3) credit union (4) a mortgage broker or two. When I did this the mortgage broker we went with was able to secure a substantially better deal than the others, and the others were even unable to match the deal once I called them back and said "hey, you can have my business if you beat this". I don't know what particular juju our broker had, but he spoke our language and it was all pretty good.
185: It happened in 2009, or 2010, I think. Fair enough: it's not fair to suppose that the guy was a player. It's just that I'm pretty sure he was.
But things have changed quite a bit now in mortgaging and whatnot. There's probably not enough room for play. I really don't know anything about this - I should be honest on that.
189 is pretty much what I was going to say. Also: don't be afraid to ask for a bunch of references. Good mortgage brokers have lots of happy customers.
Bad mortgage brokers have lumbago.
I think lumbago as a word is going away. I've never heard it from anybody under 70. I don't go to mortgage broker conventions or anything, so I could be missing it.
Look, if people are going to insist upon the up-to-the-minute hipness of "according to Hoyle," quibbling about the datedness of "lumbago" seems rather small, don't you think?
176 That's why they're a regular thing from ages 6-14, then fade away, much like macaroni and cheese.
My dad thinks something is wrong if at least 60% of his meals don't include macaroni and cheese as a side dish.
What do the old people call limping, Grandpa Wafer?
A lumbago is some kind of recreational vehicle, right?
Lumbago? In my day we just called it "The Rheumatis'."
Anyhow since he caught limp VW has been up on all those types of diseases. Bone shave, dyscrasy, flux of humour, inanition, phthiriasis, hip gout, cachexy, ship fever. All of 'em.
Hey now. I have lumbago. Also sciatica. Oh, Mildred, my lumbago, my sciatica, let me tell you it!
In modern times we call it degenerative disc disease between, um, L2 and L3 (or L3 and 4, I forget). And the sciatica? That's just the nerve, you know, going down the leg, which gets pinched by the degenerating discs. It's quite common.
I don't know what you are all on about.
Best I can tell, nothing tastes bad breaded and fried. Hell, even mushrooms become vaguely edible. Maybe scrapple should be breaded.
regular thing from ages 6-14, then fade away, much like macaroni and cheese
My 6-year-old has declared that she will no longer eat macaroni and cheese, but only Pastaroni. The 9-year-old will eat the Pastaroni, but only after complaining that it isn't macaroni and cheese.
I confess that I was thinking recently about making some macaroni and cheese, but only because of the weather! I would of course make it from scratch, baked, because you wouldn't want to fall completely apart.
At my old we house we had a Mac 'n' Cheese Bowl, with, I think, nine entries. I tied for first with my grandma's questionable midwestern recipe (pasta shells, Velveeta, and Campbell's tomato soup). The other first place recipient had incorporated meat and vegetables, which I thought perhaps disqualified it on casserole grounds, but I didn't want to be an uncivil host, so I didn't quibble.
As confessions go, that's pretty anodyne.
No way is mac'n'cheese allowed to incorporate meat. Unless it's a teeny bit of bacon. Maybe. Otherwise no. Vegetables okay. I feel that Stanley's old house was a good house.
I thought it was interesting that (I think) Ginger Yellow said in one of our transatlantic food comparison threads that a defining feature of American food is the tendency to put low quality cheese in everything. I'd never thought about that before but it's totally true.
For New Years, I ate melted brie on pumpernickel. It was great.
Moby is either trying to differentiate himself from other Americans or has very high standards for cheese. Or both, I guess.
Personally I hate cheese and the tendency in 212 drives me crazy.
215: Really on the cheese hating? Me too. It's a pretty uncommon dislike.
Also, I was betting myself I'd be stuck at work late enough to see you & Smearcase comment in real time.
Yeah, really. It makes eating out really annoying because everything has cheese on it.
And my sympathies if you are in fact still at work at this hour.
You bunch of freaks. I could eat brie every day.
219: And you'd be welcome to it. More for you!
218: I am, but I get to leave in another 45 min. It's at least quiet and peaceful.
I've been staying late at work a lot lately. (Not this late, though.) It's nice and peaceful, and I can get a lot of work done without distractions.
Yep, I've got an upcoming deadline, and working late, I don't have a trainee, meetings, or anyone who needs me to fix something. The downside is that I'm going to have to write myself a note or something so I remember to be tactful at tomorrow morning's meetings. I don't usually excel at tact, and it gets worse when I'm tired.
I love all manner of cheese from shitty to fancy, but I have known several people in the anticheese brigade.
For me it's been a combination of the new job being more analytical and hence more flexible with schedule than the old one (which was mostly about communication with communities and for which staying late wouldn't really make much sense), getting in relatively late in the morning (I'm really not a morning person) and feeling obligated to stay late to make up for that, and the second semester of my Yup'ik class starting this week (it meets in the middle of the day, so I have to take an extra-long lunch break). Overall it's been working well so far.
Flexibility is nice. The boyfriend is decidedly not a morning person, and over the years, I've adapted to something like 9:30-7 as normal work hours (barring early morning meetings). I applied for a job last year that would have put me on a 6 am start time, which would have put an enormous strain on our schedule. I was almost relieved not to get it.
I saw a grad student turn down an 8 am meeting with his advisor, saying he was busy. The advisor, pissed, asked what the student was going to be doing at 8 am. Student's response? Sleepin'.
With that, I'm finished and headed home. Thanks for the bit of company.
No problem.
I generally get in about 8:30, sometimes closer to 9:00. I do wish I had the self-control to get up early enough to be there at 8:00, which I managed to do for the first few months at this employer. It's really hard to motivate myself to get up early enough for that if there's nothing specific I have to be there for. When I was working at Chaco I was never late, even when I had to be there at 7:45 to open the Visitor Center. With the sort of office work that isn't that time-sensitive it's hard. This is all silly to worry about, though, since I'm salaried and no one actually cares how many hours I'm in the office as long as I do the work I'm expected to do.
(When I travel for work it's different. I usually take flights leaving at 6 or so, and I haven't missed one yet.)
Chilli in the UK seems to always be served with rice, which was not something I had encountered before.
FWIW, whenever I have it, which is probably once a week maybe, it's with rice. But I really love rice, so I have it with most things.
When I was growing up we always had rice with chili.
187. Sounds like Haslet. Food of the gods.
Teo, I can't believe you consider getting into work at 8:30 as 'late.' I can barely make it to my 9:00 job 10 minutes beforehand like I'm supposed to. My ideal job would probably start at 10:00.
Also, I'm beginning to wonder if rice + chilli is a normal American thing, just one I never encountered. They fit together really well, though I slightly prefer my carbs to come in the form of cornbread with that meal.
My kids fight about what kind of mac and cheese we should eat. One wants the kind from a box, the other wants homemade with breadcrumbs on top (which isn't that much harder than the box since we make large batches twice a year and freeze dinner-sized aliquots.)
Boxed with canned tuna is good, but I learned to eat that in Canada so it might not actually be a good idea.
Pretty sure rice+chili is southern/black food. Collards or black-eyed peas is IME a common side dish.
Over rice is what I think of as the normal way to serve chili as well. Personally, I'd rather skip the rice and just eat more chili (the non-Texan kind with beans, vegetables and tomato as well as the meat), but rice is standard.
I love my bubble of personal experience. I always try so hard to tell people that America is too diverse to really make blanket statements about when I'm asked questions, but I still find myself doing it all the time nonetheless.
OT: does the whole Woody-Allen-as-child-abuser thing make it in bad taste to refer to his movies now? Because I just pointed out to a collaborator that the message we're sending to a journal editor is basically "That's funny, I happen to have Mr. [expert] right here" and the collaborator either didn't get the reference or chose to ignore it.
I would read that as not getting it -- I wouldn't expect anyone to get a reference to Annie Hall unless I had already identified them as the kind of person who would.
I would have thought that someone who grew up in New York and seems to watch a lot of movies would get it. Oh well.
It's so great, though; the editor rejected our paper because a referee said "the authors clearly don't understand the foundational papers on this subject by Prof. [expert]," and we have a letter from [expert] that says he completely agrees with us.
Based on my past dealings with this journal I assume they'll still reject us anyway, with some statement along the lines of "we r serious journal and we haz the best referees".
You're younger than I am, and I'm too young to have seen Annie Hall without having deliberately rented it. A fifty-something New Yorker, I'd expect them to get it. Your age, without being precisely the kind of person that would have deliberately sought out the Woody Allen oeuvre, it's a completely unsurprising thing to be unaware of.
A fifty-something New Yorker, I'd expect them to get it.
Right. That's precisely the case here.
Try a Sleepers reference. It was funnier.
Oh, if that's the age bracket? Then yeah, odd.
I don't think I've ever seen Sleepers. Whenever it comes up I get confused and think of Sneakers.
||
My leave of absence has been approved!! I'm still waiting for the totally final official offer from that union in Pittsburgh, but I've cleared the biggest hurdle.
If all goes well, my 3-month deliverance begins March 3.
|>
Is this the thread where we complain about high-falutin journals rejecting our papers based on clearly agenda driven, turf guarding reviews?
Consider my complaint officially entered for the record.
While complaining I will also stake out the bold and controversial position that Annie Hall references are still OK despite Woody Allen's creepy personal behavior.
246: Hooray. I forget where you will be if you get the offer.
Mr. Expert says this is the greatest breakthrough since the orgasmatron.
I haven't watched Annie Hall but I've seen the reference enough to get it.
249: Working from Austin with the occasional trip to P'burgh.
I don't think I've ever seen Sleepers. Whenever it comes up I get confused and think of Sneakers.
There is also a non-trivial difference between Sleeper, which is a Woody Allen film in which he gets frozen and woken up in a far future of orgasmatrons etc, and Sleepers, which is a grim story of abuse and revenge in a New York juvenile prison.
Other confusions to avoid:
National Velvet/Blue Velvet
The Beach/On the Beach
Before Sunrise/ From Dusk to Dawn
Annie/ Annie Hall
Mulholland Drive/ Mulholland Falls
American Beauty/ American Pie
252: That's right. Here, but not here-here.
In the Heat of the Night/Still of the Night.
Philadelphia / The Philadelphia Story
And two not very similar names I always confuse:
It Happened One Night / A Night to Remember
262: /The Philadelphia Experiment
The Basketball Diaries/The Motorcycle Diaries
There are a few underrated 80s movies with generic boring titles that I can never keep straight. "At Close Range" and "No Way Out" are two.
I've confused The Town and The Village.
"The Onion Field" and "The Killing Field". Also one of them is plural, or maybe both.
What Women Want/ Sex, Lies and Videotape
The Call of the Wild/ The Silence of the Lambs
Twelve Angry Men/ Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown
I'm not sure that ajay is playing the same game.
No, I seem to have wandered off topic slightly.
Casino Royale (1967)/Casino Royale (2006)
The Aristocrats/The Aristocats
Jason and the Argonauts/Argo/Fargo
284 wins if we're going to exclude porn parody films.
The Taking of Pelham One Two Three/One, Two, Three
I once tried to rent American Graffiti but grabbed American Gigolo instead.
Hunger/ The Hunger
/The Hunger Games
Lonesome Cowboys/Midnight Cowboy/Urban Cowboy
12 Years a Slave/12 Angry Men/Twelve Monkeys
I don't really like Annie Hall so I'm fine consigning Woody Allen to the child molester dustbin of history. As a friend said on Facebook, it's not like we're losing Polanski's Chinatown.
We are not original.
Stealing some of those:
28 days/28 days later
Aristocats/The Aristocrats
Unbreakable/Unbroken
The Boys On The Bus / The Boys In The Band / The Boys From Brazil / Boyz In The Hood / Boys On The Side
I like Monsters Inc./Monsters Ball (from 299).
Francis Bacon/Francis Bacon
Bette Davis/Betty Davis
The James Brothers/The James Brothers
The sad thing is that I have made these confused non-distinctions in the past, in real life. Certainly Midnight Cowboy/Urban Cowboy.
Also the Diaries one, much to my embarrassment, as it was during a date, during which I also said something about multi-dimensional wheels on the newfangled wheeled luggage everyone has these days .... My date immediately replied with that special ironically amused something (I am forgetting what Ogged's term for that was), so it was okay, except for the feeling like an idiot part.
The Meaning of Life/Despair
How To Succeed in Business Without Really Trying/Lies
Midnight Cowboy/Urban Cowboy/The Electric Horseman/Rhinestone Cowboy (all right, not actually a movie, but I have confused this with both of the first two).
Wichita Lineman/Seven Nation Army
301: I always have to sort of consciously remember that The Boys in the Band is not about Hitler Babies.
A Man Called Horse/Horse Feathers / The Four Feathers/Heathers
(Just planning out my movie watching weekend now)
Speaking of horses, do people still say, "I have to see a man about a horse" when they go to the bathroom?
It's time to bring sexy back, Moby.
The Harder They Come/The Harder They Fall
311: Maybe it was a better question for the other thread,
The Proposal/The Proposition
I have to see a man about a urinating horse.
The Running Man/The Running Man/Marathon Man
I thought it was "about a dog".
As a friend said on Facebook, it's not like we're losing Polanski's Chinatown.
Word.
I'm not prone to pious statements about officially not being able to like Chinatown anymore, but I can't fucking stand the endless pieties about how you're still going to love the great art even if the artist was a jerk. Every revelation of wrongdoing by iconic artists or athletes or the like just sets off a new flood of that stuff, and there never seems to be any nuance or insight in it. Just a lot of "damn it, am I guilty by association? No!!!!" Especially wonderful when it's a 1000-word editorial saving the shocking twist -- yes, we can still honor this person's wonderful work (by potted moralizing?) -- for the very end.
The Last Picture Show/ The Rocky Horror Picture Show
Chocolat by Claire Denis vs Chocolat starring Juliette Binoche vs Like Water for Chocolate... (oh man, has Claire Denis done anything evil? I could really stand to watch several of her movies in a row instead of doing any work today. Beau travail!)
I've heard "about a horse" more than "about a dog".
Avatar/The Last Airbender (based on the TV series Avatar)
Never heard "about a dog" in person, never heard "about a horse" at all.
317: It was originally. I've been wasting time on Wikipedia.
What about "drain the dragon"? "Drop the kids off at the pool"? I guess that one's different.
If you have to drop the kids off at the pool every time you see a man about a horse, you've been getting too much fiber or not enough water.
Semi-relatedly, an interesting piece on "screw the pooch" as a spontaneous euphemism for "fuck the dog." Tracks a plausible story on who first used it and how it became a term of art within NASA.
326 If you really screw the pooch you'll end up buying the farm.
326: That article made me so happy. I was recently told I was explaining to wrong (to a nonnative English speaker who was utterly horrified) and that it referred to missing a pooch punt in football.
I would've thought "dropping the kids off at the pool" would imply masturbating in a public restroom. Have I been doing it wrong all this time?
I always get Midnight Express and Runaway Train confused, possibly because Jon Voight is in Midnight Cowboy.
Sophie's Choice/Death to Smoochy
I may not have understood the assignment.
Chocolat by Claire Denis vs Chocolat starring Juliette Binoche vs Like Water for Chocolate...
Like Water for Chocolate / Water for Elephants
I remember a contest on Prodigy way back when that asked you to come up with new plausible titles by concatenating existing ones. I was maybe 12 so didn't have any good ones (most involved prepending Big to other titles) but since came up with A Christmas Story: Finding Forrester The Gift.
Oh and of course
The Piano
The Pianist
The Piano Teacher
The Piano Player
Player Piano, not a movie
The Piano Tuner (Fitzcarraldo but with a piano)
I remember a contest on Prodigy way back when that asked you to come up with new plausible titles by concatenating existing ones. I was maybe 12 so didn't have any good ones (most involved prepending Big to other titles) but since came up with A Christmas Story: Finding Forrester The Gift.
This is a semi-regular game on Doug Loves Movies.
253: Blue Velvet
Reminds me that I am getting my CPAP tonight. I'm looking forward to some awesome Frank Booth cosplay.
These sloppy joes seem like chili on toast.
That was me. Mostly talking to myself anyway.
Sloppy joes are basically chili without beans, but sweeter. Right?
If chili didn't contain beans, it could be on toast, or spaghetti, or whatever. But it contains beans so carbs are not neeeeeeded.
The sloppy joe recipe linked contained beans. Skyline chili doesn't, unless you ask for a 4-way.
Assuming you don't ask for a 4-way with onions.
Traditional Texas chili doesn't have beans either.
We always made it with beans, though, because fuck Texas.
Teo, I can't believe you consider getting into work at 8:30 as 'late.' I can barely make it to my 9:00 job 10 minutes beforehand like I'm supposed to. My ideal job would probably start at 10:00.
I dunno, starting at 8 is pretty typical for white collar work IME. That's all been in the West, though; I understand 9 is more common in the Northeast (and maybe in California too?).
Anyway, plenty of other people in my office show up at 8:30 or 9:00. Worrying about this is entirely a result of my own neuroses.
I briefly worked at a non-profit in DC that started around 9:30 or 10. This was apparently normal in that sector. I liked not having to be up early but the loss of early evening time made it harder to go to the library of congress to look stuff up after work.
I try to get to the office before noon, but some days it's really difficult.
We'll be sure to keep that in mind next time you complain about your job.
346: I think my impressions are mostly formed by my parents and their friends' jobs, all of which were in the 8:30-9:00 region as far as I can remember. I've never worked a normal desk job, so I've got no personal experience. 8 just seems really early, like you should be able to go home at 4 if you want to, though I suppose 8-5 with an hour lunch is pretty standard.
Our daycare is only open 8:15-5:30 and is 15-20 minutes from work so I can use my kids as an excuse to stick it to the Man. Except for the part how I went back to work from 11-2 last night to finish a presentation I didn't have time to get to during the day because I read blogs have too many meetings.
Center of the US tends to be earlier, a lot of 7:30-8. Central time zone in particular (similarly many traditionally had 10 o'clock rather than 11 o'clock nightly news). A fair number at my workplace get in before 7:30. I'm quite variable--on a call right now, but taking it from home.
348, 349: Essear can't complain but sometimes he still does.
Life's been good to him so far.
get in before 7:30.
What is wrong with you people???? (Do you get to go home earlier?)
I taught at 8 am once, which meant I was at work by 7 - 7:15. I'm not naturally a morning person and it would have been very difficult to sustain, as I'm just bleary until about 10. But I consistently used to work late; I think my best working time tended to be from about 2-7 in terms of mental clarity, and then again sometimes a spell from 9-11 or so.
A bunch of people at my current work come in before 8 but they generally leave at or before 4. The "normal" workday is 8:30-5. I'm often 10-15 minutes late so I stay a little later, plus I usually do some work from home every week outside of regular hours.
Traditional Texas chili doesn't have beans either.
Hmm. I have friends who grew up in the Houston area who vehemently assert the one true Texas chili to include pintos.
When I first started as an assistant professor, I made a point of being my office by 8 (I had never bothered about when I got in as a postdoc or grad student).
I kept it up for about 2 years before suddenly realizing "Wait a minute...no one cares when I get in!" Since then it's usually been between 9 and 10.
(Do you get to go home earlier?)
It's complicated.
"Wait a minute...no one cares when I get in!"
This is the situation in my office, and I get in to work astonishingly late. Somehow, getting in earlier doesn't seem to affect when I can leave.
New York lawyers IME claim to get into work at 10 but nothing gets done until 11. And then they bitch about how they have no life.
At my job, the staff gets in at 8 but most lawyers with the exception of a few 6am-5pm morning weirdos don't get in until 9-9:30, which is what I do (though I usually do about 30-40 minutes of emailing or other similar work at home before going in).
My most productive hours at work have reliably been after 4pm. Post-child, I'm routinely leaving work at 5:30-6. This is not so good for my total work productivity.
Our standard workday is actually 8:00 to 4:30 (with a one-hour lunch), but there's a lot of flexibility.
I tend to get to work between 10 and 11 and leave around 6. I'm usually logged in remotely a fair bit outside those hours so I easily cover a normal 37hrs-ish work week plus a bit more. Some weeks I work a lot more, and some a bit less. If I were to try to get in earlier (using current commuting methods) it would double my commute time (or significantly increase cost). No-one checks my hours, though, and although I have a line manager I basically authorise my own leave/vacation time.
I have one colleague who is a super morning person who gets in at 7 and leaves around 3:30 or 4. He likes to schedule meetings at 9, which fucks up my whole day, and yet is utterly inflexible himself about 4pm meetings. Not specifically because of him but, but through years of work, I tend to find early morning people a right pain in the arse. Smugly assuming it's somehow intrinsically virtuous.
OT: Chris Christie has just hired a guy I've litigated against as his lawyer for the GWBridge scandal. The dude is an incredible asshole -- not actually all that good, once you get through the bluster, but mendacious and bullying. I couldn't imagine a more fitting choice.
That's only because no top law school has yet to graduate somebody who looked like a traffic cone.
364. You make it sound like he's handling it himself.
Well, the lawyer is charming, when he turns it on. He comes off as your kindly grandfather (at my current age, father, I suppose -- he's not more than a generation older than I am.)