Mr. Rosen, who used to run Ticketmaster...
God. Can't they all lose?
Would that all of our names were as euphonious as Abdulaziz bin Abdullah bin Abdulaziz al-Saud.
The Biltmore estate is over 175,000 sq. ft, so these are fairly modest by Gilded Age standards.
I know a guy called Kevin EricsonKevinson Hapsburg. Basically the same.
I don't understand:
A relatively humble 23,000-square-foot modern spec house currently on the market in Beverly Hills's Trousdale Estates neighborhood has an infinity pool with iPad-controlled fountains and a subterranean lounge with floor-to-ceiling candy dispensers on one wall and mounted tequila bottles and machine guns on another. The lounge opens onto a 16-vehicle garage with a Bugatti Veyron revolving on a car turntable, just like at the dealer's. According to TMZ, Beyoncé and Jay Z looked at the property twice. The asking price is $85 million, not including the Bugatti.
"Spec house" means it wasn't built for anyone in particular and it sounds like no one is currently living there, right? So... the developer decorated it with machine guns thinking these would appeal to prospective buyers?
Sometimes people don't know what they really want until you give it to them.
According to TMZ, Beyoncé and Jay Z looked at the property twice.
Presumably before rubbing their eyes, shaking their heads in disbelief and walking off muttering to themselves.
Machine guns and candy dispensers. The envisioned purchaser is a violently unbalanced eight-year-old?
I bet if you play hardball they're willing to throw in the Bugatti.
Do real estate brokers selling $85,000,000 houses still get standard 6% commissions?
8: Is there any other kind of eight-year-old?
5 -- It appeals to me, but I can't afford it.
Also, I appreciate these more personal posts where Ogged does a deep dive into the folkways of his people.
A 23,000 square foot house with a machine gun collection on the wall? Sounds like a nightmare to dust.
It's now more old-timey nostalgia than a modern item, but I miss the 80s when Don Simpson's home had relatively simple amenities, like a secret tunnel from the swimming pool to the 8 person hooker shower and a cocaine-dispensing bed.
"a cocaine-dispensing bed"? What does that look like?
I'm envisioning something like one of those hamster water-bottles, but with a nasal fitting.
What features does an 8 person hooker shower have that a regular 8 person shower is missing?
Most of the ones I know about have handles and benches.
"a cocaine-dispensing bed"? What does that look like?
If you have to ask, you can't afford it.
Most of the ones I know about have handles and benches.
So a hooker shower and an old-person shower have the same amenities? Interesting.
"Spec house" means it wasn't built for anyone in particular and it sounds like no one is currently living there, right? So... the developer decorated it with machine guns thinking these would appeal to prospective buyers?
Are you sure it isn't "modern-spec", as in specification, rather than speculative? Flats here are often described as "high spec" or "modern high spec".
(Also, 20 seems like the sort of comment that, if I had been the one writing it, I might have considered a presidential pseudonym. Exactly how many hooker showers are you familiar with, lw?)
My childhood home just got knocked down to build a spec house. Probably won't be more than 5000 square feet, though. The first thing those bastards did was cut down all the awesome trees.
I also really hope that the secret tunnel from the swimming pool to the hooker shower was an underwater tunnel.
What features does an 8 person hooker shower have
Props, wings, backs, scrum halves...
I just skimmed an article about Simpson which said he had a huge stash of pills including a number of antipsychotics and lithium. I never thought of lithium as a drug of abuse.
24: Lessons in reticence from a drunk-walking baby-stealer.
I never heard of that either. Possibly he just wanted to be prepared for anything.
I also never heard much about abuse of antipsychotics. Or at least abuse by voluntary illegal use on yourself.
Didn't Nirvana have a song called Lithium? Those guys knew from drug abuse.
34: Right sometimes, antipsychotics get abusively prescribed to/on patients who are taking them involuntarily. I kind of wonder if he was using them as "major tranquilizers" to just knock himself out. But lithium would be unlikely to work that way.
Maybe he was worried about kidney stones and wanted to take a medication that would force him to remain well hydrated for face more immediate negative effects.
34 -- Simpson had a really crazy "doctor" buddy whose expert plan for getting them both off of heroin, cocaine and other prescription drugs was to do a bunch of other, seemingly random prescription drugs in order to balance out the symptoms or something. This did not work out so well.
More here. The drug-addict doctor originally got involved with Simpson because the doctor wanted Simpson to make his movie about a man who is born with the spirit of a Kodiak bear.
To the incredible switching pseud and Doctor Feelgood, the bear whisperer.
I appreciate these more personal posts where Ogged does a deep dive into the folkways of his people.
It is highly plausible that many Gulf Arabs, having for the last several millennia been deprived by circumstance of the chance to have houses, are now making up for lost time by having as much house as possible.
I found lithium quite helpful in quitting drugs and alcohol. I have no idea if it would help anybody else, but it seemed to alter my consciousness enough that it relieved some deep discomfort with my sober brain.
I love hearing about rich people acting horribly toward other rich people. All this story needs is a third neighbor to install a 24-hour, brightly-lit driving range.
43: Huh, I didn't know you had a history with drug and alcohol addiction. Have you mentioned that before?
45: Skeet or trap would be better/worse.
...his movie about a man who is born with the spirit of a Kodiak bear.
That this movie was never made is an indictment on the modern Hollywood system. But we will get thirty shitty comic book movies and then five years later half of them will be remade with different actors because IP law in the US is broken because Hollywood instead of this Kodiak bear spirit man walks the earth awesomeness that we all deserve to watch and cherish and quite possibly would have been the greatest movie ever made. Scandal.
And does no one remember the tacky Saudi sheikh Beverly Hills mansions of yesteryear? I mean painted pubic hair statuary hits the sweet spot of this blog even better than cocaine-dispensing beds and 8-person hooker showers in your secret sex grottoes:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1916&dat=19780501&id=vqs0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=P24FAAAAIBAJ&pg=5140,30614
I just checked: my entire department occupies a bit less than 90,000 assignable square feet. We do not have a wall of candy machines or a hooker shower. Donor naming opportunities abound.
46: Probably. Nothing alameidean, but there was a period of more than five years in which I was wasted every evening (and, unknowingly at first, impaired during the day). I would periodically stop for several weeks, but inevitably would slip up and start again. Anyway, I'm much better now, and can responsibly abuse drugs and alcohol again.
The first thing those bastards did was cut down all the awesome trees.
I've seen that a lot in the neighborhood where I grew up when I go visit my parents and man do I hate when they do that.
From the article in 48:
"... most agree it is a bit much, including another Saudi prince. 'As a Saudi', he said, 'I'm so embarrassed by it all. This man is behaving like a Texan.'"
48. Those Saudi sheikh mansions are in Great Falls, VA now.
49: but the new visitor's residence of the institute that's affiliated with your department is still in the works, right? And with that amount of money, how could they not put in hooker showers?
||
9: Speaking of Bieber, the Bieberization* of They Might Be Giants' cover of "Istanbul, (not Constantinople)" (*hyper slowed down). Contrast original.
|>
I'm much better now, and can responsibly abuse drugs and alcohol again
This is impressively unorthodox, recovery-narrative-wise. Did you know that you would be able to "responsibly abuse" throughout, or did you spend a period of believing you had to abstain completely?
|| Slate takes up my slate pitch from TFA.|>
56: I was self-medicating. Now that I'm on an antidepressant that works for me the consequences of drinking are at most a few lost evenings, as opposed to months. Some other drugs would be more of a problem but fortunately they're less conveniently available. Lithium helped even more. I can't take it anymore, but I was on it long enough that my habits were altered.
It is highly plausible that many Gulf Arabs, having for the last several millennia been deprived by circumstance of the chance to have houses, are now making up for lost time by having as much house as possible..
A few less square feet and a few more $ into the offer I finally received yesterday would have been most welcome. I'm feeling like I've been lowballed and I'm not quite sure how best to proceed.
As it is this will be a really good springboard for future positions, although if the basic pay was better I'd probably consider staying put for some time - which is what they want - this way I'm going to be looking at other jobs as soon as is practicable.
I'm one person and I'm wondering if I can leverage that, e.g. they're offering me a single round trip ticket back to the states once a year where's a family would have tickets for everyone. I'd like two round trips (I have enough leave) or one and half (say for a trip to Europe) and to upgrade me from economy to business class.
And the basic salary could be much better. Especially since I need to be saving for retirement and there is no employer contribution to any retirement plan. Should I ask if it's negotiable or just counteroffer with a number I have in mind?
I''m going to end up taking it but I don't want to mess this up. I would be much happier in the position with more (I know, we all would but it's the difference between staying there for the indefinite future and looking to gain experience for a year or two so I can move on). A number of people I trust have told me I'm going to be taking an initial hit the first year and I can always renegotiate. I'm feeling very green here.
(Hopefully this thread isn't too dead).
Isn't the cost of upgrading from economy to business class usually the equivalent of somewhere between five and ten round trips? Sounds like a lot to ask for to me.
Yeah, funny thing is I don't actually care that much. I just accept that the transit part is going to be miserable and absorb myself in a book or looking out the window; it's more that my brother is a pilot who flies internationally for a major airline and he'd razz me for settling for economy class.
So that's not actually a big deal, but two round trips or a trip and a half would be a major plus. I'd be able to meet him and his kids in Europe for a short trip and not have it affect my tax status in the US.
I'm one person and I'm wondering if I can leverage that
"In my defence, while I admit I have many unpleasant features, you have to be grateful that there's only one of me. Imagine if you'd employed an entire departmentful. If you look at it that way, you've come out of this rather well."
I don't even see business class. Seriously. I only ever fly to Omaha on Southwest. All seats are the same size.
Alright, nix the business class - I'll deal with the razzing from my brother, and ajay.
It's really the basic salary I'm concerned about. How do I find out how flexible they are without screwing myself out of the deal.
Are you open to other ways they might sweeten the deal? You could say, "I was expecting something more in the X range, but I could be open to [say] more paid leave" or something.
I would never mock someone for having to fly economy class. I'm hardly in a position to...
I think you should probably take advice from someone closer to the academic world, but maybe pushing back on one of the non-salary areas would be a good start - asking about the possibility of a couple of flights per year, perhaps, because you'd like to get home for Thanksgiving and Christmas, or because you think you'd be able to do your job better with two two-week breaks rather than one four-week break?
Are you open to other ways they might sweeten the deal?
"I am assuming this post comes with a private hammam and shark tank?"
It's really the basic salary I'm concerned about. How do I find out how flexible they are without screwing myself out of the deal.
Have you got any hard information on what people in comparable jobs make? If you've got a range, you could go back with a number within but at the high end of that range, and be pretty sure it would look reasonable.
I think that's the last time I take advice from my brother. It would never really have occurred to me to ask for business class otherwise. But an additional trip, yes.
And a wall of machine guns would certainly seal the deal. Especially if it includes a Vickers.
72.2 may be why they're taking such a long time to do the paperwork. The job's in Yemen, and the committee's sitting there thinking "This Freed guy has an impressive CV and he came across very well in the interview, but I'm really worried that he hasn't asked about the automatic weapon package yet. Are we sure he's enough of a gun nut to fit in with the rest of the faculty?"
Experience shows that I have no idea how to negotiate anything. I would rather someone give me $10,000 in cash than spend it on upgrading my plane ticket, but maybe the latter is viewed as a more reasonable request.
"I am assuming this post comes with a private hammam and shark tank which are both clearly labelled as such to avoid a regrettable accident".
74. me too. I'm sorry I wrote that.
75. No need for labels if you just remember that the pintle mount is in the middle of the private hammam but outside the shark tank. I've thought this part through at least.
There's a decent case to be made that business class is the way to go if you are traveling halfway around the world and don't have several days to recover when you land. So, really, you only want business class so you can provide better service to your employer.
My friend who goes to Yemen seems to spend a lot of time on lockdown in her hotel.
A couple thoughts: are you negotiating with an HR department, or your future boss? HR you can quibble on salary, future boss it's probably not going to make a great impression. This probably doesn't help you much, but in my totally irrelevant-to-you field, pay bands are something like 7%, so if you ask for more, I'd suggest not more than 10% increase over their offer, probably more like 5%. If it's a total lowball offer, they'll have more room to increase, but I think most decent organizations just have defined pay bands and offer at the low end unless they're trying to poach someone.
In your place, knowing you might want to job hunt 1-2 years in, I'd ask for registration to one conference + travel + per diem (or similar professional development opportunity like short courses in your field) every year (maybe for the first five years or something so not in perpetuity). That way, they pay for your networking but get benefit. You can pick conferences where you want to go or get them to pay for you to go somewhere in the US and then use your money to travel domestically while you tack on vacation, for example.
Without knowing anything about details I would say ask for more money, not more flights home (much less upgrades). You can always turn money into flights. But it's a good idea to maximize your year one salary, especially if you would be inclined to stick around if the money was enough and future salary increases will be figured in something like percentage terms.
I would just ask for what you want--unless they're crazy that's not going to screw you out of the deal, at worst it'll get you a "no". If you feel like you need to dress it up, tell them that their offer was considerably lower than you'd anticipated based on $reasons; that you're very excited about the prospect of working for their wonderful organization but that this offer makes it a tough decision; and that if they can up their offer by $X (where X is a little on the high side but not crazy) you'd be happy to accept on the spot. Again, unless they're crazy, worst you get is a no, but I kind of doubt they'd have made an initial offer that's really as high as they're willing/able to go.
Thanks ydnew and potchkeh. It's HR not my boss. It's not even the HR for the institution itself but a higher level institution that does the HR for the place I'm going to work at.
The committee that interviewed me (including the director of the institution I'll be working at and the boss of my section) warned me that I'd be lowballed because it's my first full time position in this field. OTOH, I have two master's degrees in unrelated fields but which makes me a really perfect and unusual fit for this institution, particularly when combined with where I was working when getting my second master's.
I know they want someone long-term but if my later raises are based on this year then that's something I really can't afford to do.
81.1: That's good. Basically no downside to asking for more money. 79.2 is more a backup idea if bigger salary is not forthcoming.
Barry, is this an academic job in Saudi Arabia? (Sorry, haven't been following super close.) A friend just took such a position and I'd be happy to put you in touch for any tips. Email linked at pseud.
I'd like to have useful information but in a similar position in a similar field, I lucked out on the initial offer for my first job. They gave me the lowest rank - what I expected - and the middle of the salary range, which was fair given my background. So I didn't negotiate or feel I had leverage to do so.
It's a library job in a different GCC country. They told me my rank was a senior rank but I have no idea what their pay grade structure is like.
I'm not sure whether to ask for an increase of 10% of the basic salary or of the total package (which they're calculating as a bit over twice the basic salary and includes accommodation, insurance, etc,)
Here is something of a wet blanket to consider: what affect is the falling price of oil going to have on your plans regarding future employment opportunities? How confident are you in the institution's ability to stay afloat if the Gulf goes into a low-oil-price induced recession?
86 that's a good point. I think the country in question and the institution I'll be working at will do at okay. It's something I did look into a bit.
So I sent them an email asking for clarifications on some matters and a counteroffer. I was prepared to hear no in reply but not prepared to receive no reply at all. According to the email I have till the 12th (which is odd, since it's their day off).
I would just ask for what you want--unless they're crazy that's not going to screw you out of the deal, at worst it'll get you a "no".
This is dead right. You've already sent the counteroffer (well done!) so I'll just say for general advice purposes that this falls under the same general category as feeling pressured to answer the "salary requirements" question with anything other than "depends on responsibilities and benefits." It's a b.s. trap that just tilts the scales further to the employer's side.
Thanks to everyone for the advice.
There is something worse than getting "no" and it turns out that something is no reply whatsoever with their deadline to positively reply rapidly approaching.
I sent that email requesting clarification of some of their terms and making a counter offer with regard to the basic salary on the 9th and I've yet to hear anything.
This is making me extremely nervous on account of the fact that their email with the formal offer requested that I give them a positive reply to of their offer by the 12th which is tomorrow (although they have off tomorrow, which is weird). And further reiterates that they are "looking forward to [my] positive reply within the stipulated period".
Maybe they're in the process of finding out how much they can bend and/or leaving me dangling. They have taken time to get back to me in other matters so that much is not unusual but with the 12th being tomorrow...
I'm on pins and needles as you can imagine and I'm not sure if I should send a follow-up saying that I'd like to come to an agreement but would like the clarifications on the points I requested and a reply to my counter-offer or will that just reek of the anxiety and desperation that I'm clearly feeling about this.
Yuck.
I have no advice, Barry, but that sounds awfully uncomfortable for you. I'm assuming there's no one within the hiring organization you feel you could check with about the details. Ugh!
91: Is there any way at all to phone?
It's 2200 or so in the region right now and tomorrow is the weekend. They'll have gone home...
Has there been any back and forth communication since the offer (which I think was Monday?) Or was the offer the last thing you heard?
I'm glad my dad's extended family has stopped doing the "everyone draw a name and then give that person a $15 gift card to Wal-Mart" Christmas tradition. That was worse than the tacky animal figurines.
Oh, I'm on the wrong thread, aren't I? Oops.
Are the people you're waiting to hear from people you'd be interacting directly with in your job, or not? If so I would feel like this is a bad indication of how they'll treat you, regardless of how the immediate negotiation works out.
I have to answer emails from coworkers or I'm the asshole?
95 Just the phone call giving the offer on Monday and their email on the same day with the details in writing and then my counter offer sent Tuesday (albeit, after their Tuesday working day was node). Nothing since then.
I really don't know. It seems very likely, what with the weekend, that you're not going to hear. At which point you have two options, I think. The first is folding completely and sending an email tomorrow accepting their offer. The second is sending an email accepting their offer "pending resolution of the salary questions raised in my email of 12/9."
I don't think the latter is that risky, but I really don't have a sense of the odds, so I can't give any solid advice.
102 That sounds like an decent option. "I would be pleased to accept the offer pending resolution..."
Anyone else have any thoughts? I'm going to mull it over a bit and send it much later tonight.
With the caveat that only you know what you're really dealing with here, I think a third option would be to say that you can't give them an answer until they give you an answer. Maybe that's not much different from accepting the offer "pending resolution" of your request, but "sorry, we're not upping our offer" is a resolution so why would they go with anything else at that point? Or is the idea to accept on the condition that they give you what you're asking for?
Is there any reason to think this is a genuinely exploding offer, aside from the fact that they asked for a decision by the 12th? Because particularly given that they're closed on the 12th, that looks to me like boilerplate (e.g., standard practice to ask for a response by day of offer + n days), not like a meaningful date by which they really need to have this locked down. And I would have to figure their non-response is simple delay/non-priority rather than an 11-dimension chess move to get you to take their opening offer without having to go to the trouble of declining your request for a higher number. All that said, sorry you're in such a stressful position. I do think it's extremely unlikely there's anything you can do here that'll mean having the offer snatched away.
And I would have to figure their non-response is simple delay/non-priority rather than an 11-dimension chess move to get you to take their opening offer without having to go to the trouble of declining your request for a higher number.
This. I know the job offer feels like one of the most important things in the world to you right now, but, rightly or wrongly, it's just not as high a priority for them. Even though I'm sure they really do need you and want you to be part of the team. They haven't responded because they've got other things going on, and they are probably working on a response, trying to see if or to what extent they can accommodate your salary requests. But it's not priority #1 and they're not done with it. Give them time.
Thanks urple and potchkeh.
Also, it is with a sudden shock of pure terror that I only just realized that they asked me to reply not tomorrow on the 12th but two days ago on the 10th. The email said 10/12 which I stupidly read as being the 12th (because yes, it's OCTOBER DUMMY!). Well, that's embarrassing. I guess there is nothing to do but sit tight. Or tell them I mixed it up or something. I don't know. At least I sent them my request for clarification and counteroffer email on the 9th. Ugh ugh ugh ugh.
Deep breaths. You replied with questions about the offer before the date they asked for your answer, and they haven't responded. It'd be crazy for them to expect you to accept or reject an offer when they haven't yet answered your questions. And in the unlikely event they are that crazy, the people who want you to come work for them will get it straightened out--they're not going to shrug and lose the candidate they picked over some stupid HR game.
Thanks for that potchkeh. I really needed to hear that.
I think I'll sit tight then and wait out the weekend and see what the new week brings.
According to TMZ, Beyoncé and Jay Z looked at the property twice.
What a great marketing description of a double-take.