Re: More megachurch money, more mega problems.

1

Are we sure he's not pulling a Trump?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 7:47 AM
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That website is just horrible. Worse than Geocities.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 7:52 AM
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3

Back in the days when I was still a Christian it seemed to me obvious that the Antichrist would rise out of the prosperity gospel sects and would be a telegenic sleaze like Joel Osteen.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 8:17 AM
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I dunno, Osteen is pretty bad but he's not even close to the top tier of prosperity gospel scammers. He does have some real religious content beyond pay me money and a real church organization, even if a huge one, and his thing is more or less organized like a real church.


Posted by: Roberto Tigre | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 9:12 AM
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Anyhow, the size of the weekly donations is huge because Osteen preaches to what, 40,000 people a week just in the at-church audience alone.


Posted by: Roberto Tigre | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 9:16 AM
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That's $15 per person, which seem high given that many of those persons are probably kids. Also, I couldn't figure from the article if the total included checks or not.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 9:24 AM
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$15 per person seems about right, I guess. You wrap a bunch of ones with a ten and make it look like $50 is no thing for you.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 9:26 AM
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8

3: Now that you're not a Christian, where do you think the Antichrist will come from?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 9:59 AM
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9

8: Kenya.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 10:05 AM
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10

How about a spoiler alert. Sheesh.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 10:17 AM
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10: Moby refuses to read the Book of Revelations for the same reason.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 10:25 AM
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12

||
Does the Unfoggedariat extend to San Diego? I'm going to be there in a couple of weeks.
|>


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 10:27 AM
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Does the Unfoggedariat extend to San Diego?

From where?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 11:06 AM
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Pittsburgh seems to be its heartland.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 11:10 AM
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15

It's a working class, steel-town kinda blog.


Posted by: Roberto Tigre | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 11:20 AM
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We're hard at work commenting when the coastal elites are in their satin robes with their fancy cocktails.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 11:28 AM
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17

If nobody notices when I'm making cock jokes, I'll have to stop making them.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 11:35 AM
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18

Not really.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 11:36 AM
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19

Maybe this'll revive the thread, and it's even on topic in that it's about tax-exempt organizations.

Cecile Richards (head of the overarching Planned Parenthood Federation of America) makes almost half a million bucks. I heard that on the radio but didn't want to take it on faith, so I looked at PP's tax return (Form 990). She sure as shit did get paid at least $452,000 in 2013.*

Fuck a bunch of national Planned Parenthood. I'm happy that I donate only to my local PP.

*I don't know the ins and outs of 990's, so I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt and not counting another $140K that may be travel expenses or other things.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 1:17 PM
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20

Am I bad if I don't think that's an unseemly salary for running a national organization?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 1:26 PM
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21

Not bad, just wrong.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 1:47 PM
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It kind of is, really, though I'm willing to grant it for Planned Parenthood because of the level of openly terrorist shit they have to deal with. I'm not sure I would want to be the leader of an organization with that much actual, organized terrorism directed at it.


Posted by: MHPH | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 1:48 PM
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19:

This seems to be a fine time to note that the independent providers of abortion do not always see eye-to-eye with national PP.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 1:48 PM
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19.*: The stuff in the "other" column on a 990 isn't travel expenses. It's probably mostly deferred compensation of one kind or another, plus health benefits.


Posted by: potchkeh | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 1:48 PM
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I dunno, maybe I'm the outlier here. It seems extravagant to me.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 1:49 PM
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I'm not sure I would want to be the leader of an organization with that much actual, organized terrorism directed at it.

The local providers (docs, nurses, staff) at actual clinics are the ones who face the most actual risk.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 1:51 PM
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According to a CharityNavigator summary, in 2012 the median CEO compensation of charities with over $13.5m annual expenses was $256K. PPFA's 2013 expenses were $99m in 2013.

Yes, it's still objectively too much, but plausibly more going with the flow than feeding the fire.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 1:52 PM
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28

What would be an appropriate salary for her?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 1:54 PM
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29

Ten times median individual income - $270K - should be enough for anybody, I think.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 1:57 PM
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30

Until the revolution comes, when some doc doing boob jobs can make that much, I'm not going to begrudge half a mil to someone who does good work and has to be firm but polite on national tv with a bunch of hostile morons.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 2:02 PM
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31

Until the revolution comes, when some doc doing boob jobs can make that much,

That will be a weird revolution.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 2:05 PM
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32

24: Gotcha. Same as for corporate reports, it seems. In my union's filings, "other" is expenses.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 2:08 PM
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The local providers (docs, nurses, staff) at actual clinics are the ones who face the most actual risk.

So far.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 2:12 PM
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Ten times median individual income - $270K - should be enough for anybody, I think.

That's my general thinking. It's less about comparison than that enough has to be enough at some point. If the organization want to spend another $200 or $300K on compensation, pay the janitors and interns more.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 2:16 PM
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I live down the street in Dallas from a Baptist megachurch with 70,000+ people. I have a friend who has lived nearby his whole life that calls it "The Baptodome".


Posted by: Trivers | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 2:27 PM
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31: They also serve who only lift and separate.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 2:42 PM
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37

I concur that this isn't a crazy salary for someone national.

a) Housing costs in the cities where there is good work are insane.

b) It's a lot, but per 30, private compensation for capable people is higher still.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 3:05 PM
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Crazy stat I learned the other day: GDP per worker in the US is a bit over $100,000.

Seems like limiting salaries to a range of 1/5 that much to 5 times that much is reasonable. The former is a $10 minimum wage, and roughly the poverty level. The latter is a ton of money, but not obscene.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 3:18 PM
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That salary seems almost exactly right to me for her position. I think lower and you absolutely could expect a loss in talent. In the world of big-time players in big cities that's just enough to lead a very respectable, but not rich, life, which is about what you'd need to attract the big-time players you'd want to do things like run PP Bitching about her salary feels like the endlessly stupid bitching about salary for Congresspeople or judges -- of course their salary should be substantially higher. In a more egalitarian society things would be different and a 10x or so cap from median would be reasonable, and that would be a good thing, but that's not the society we do live in.
Organizations like PP have to exist in the real world and its market for labor, and that price doesn't seem to me at all like outrageous or unnecessary self-dealing.


Posted by: Roberto Tigre | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 3:24 PM
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40

So Cecile Richards is the daughter of former Texas governor Ann Richards. Did not know that. And Jason Chaffetz, who was being such a dick yesterday (everyday?) is the son of Kitty Dukakis. Did not know that (and am surprised).


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 3:30 PM
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To be clear, where the rubber hits the road in agree with RT. there may be reasons to find PPFA specifically problematic, but this isn't one of them.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 3:35 PM
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40: Chaffetz's father had previously been married to Kitty Dukakis, but she's not his mother.


Posted by: potchkeh | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 3:40 PM
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43

Ah, ok. Thanks.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 3:46 PM
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44

So, people have been talking about this limiting salaries deal for awhile now, but I just don't buy it. Sure, you could institute some limits for publicly traded corporations (maybe, with a huge amount of organizing work beforehand), and non-profits, but how could you plausibly limit salaries for sole proprietors? Or partnerships or PAs, LLCs, etc?

Confiscatory taxes seem like a much better idea. Yes, people will do things to get out of them, as we saw during the previous high of marginal tax rates after WWII and into the 1950s, but broadly, you're still getting a lot of money into public coffers. (Outside of public coffers, there's too much daylight to make any real money).


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 4:40 PM
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44: I feel like high redistributive taxation and explicit limitations on corporate salaries could be usefully combined, mostly just because the latter seems to resonate with people in a different way.

What was ever the justification of allowing all these pass-through creatures in the first place, besides letting some small, presumably well-connected, businesses off the hook at random? I feel like at the very least corporate taxes should be the social tradeoff for having any limited liability. So make everything other than a sole proprietorship file its own taxes, and there's your enforcement mechanism for a salary cap.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 5:23 PM
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46

If I made a half million, I probably would not have just started a siphon to clear my blocked French drain.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 5:41 PM
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a siphon to clear my blocked French drain

That sounds...incredibly filthy.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 5:42 PM
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It's probably just ground water but there's a (long closed) mine back of the house so it may be contaminated.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 5:46 PM
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49

YOU HAVE A PENIS MIGHTIER MINESHAFT?


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 5:50 PM
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50

Not really. Somebody capped it, hopefully after letting out the bats.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-30-15 6:30 PM
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