This seems to be common to (nearly) highly competitive areas now. How do you get a world class talent ? Sacrifice a thousand childhoods and keep the one who ends up on top.
Interesting article, though it's a bit overstated -- I suspect the percentage of violin students who actually have their lives ruined in any meaningful way is smaller than it suggests.
My mother (and, as the article suggests, it was indeed my mother who was the motive force) kept me practicing violin through high school. I dropped it when I got to college and it is now pretty much only an occasional source of guilt to me. I think it gave me a better appreciation of music, but the cost in terms of time sunk into the project was pretty high for that benefit. But I wouldn't say it ruined my childhood. Maybe if I'd had more talent or enthusiasm it would have.
We started my daughter on lessons young. She didn't like it and we weren't willing to push through the crying, so we stopped. She does now take piano lessons and chorus lessons. She's enthusiastic about the chorus, so maybe that will stick, in the sense of singing being an activity she enjoys in adulthood.
My uncle, before being a music educator, spent two decades as a symphony violinist in some not-so-prestigious symphonies. He had had lessons from a young age, but he decided to become a professional violinist rather late in life, only after realizing how much he missed playing violin after spending a year in college on a tennis scholarship.
He said there were a number of very good players that had grown up with their parents pushing them very hard at whatever their instrument was. He told me that once, when he was sharing a hotel room on tour with one of those types, he pulled out his violin and began practicing. At one point, his roommate gave him an incredulous look and, after a short silence, said "You really like practicing, don't you?"
My son is right now shouting, "Get owned already" at something on an iPad. I'm obviously a stellar parent.
We did buy him a teeny violin. He never took to it.
I knew a guy who grew up like this, except with ping pong. He left school and everything. He developed tendonitis at 19: no more ping pong.
I've heard some very successful classical musicians talking in interviews, and I think for a lot of them, it's a two-way process. There is a certain amount of parental commitment, but also, they describe really wanting to play. In some cases, these were people with very working class non-helicopter parents.
They do claim that you need to start at age N, where age N is some absurdly young age, but I'm not really _really_ sure how true that is. Loads of virtuoso jazz and popular musicians -- people with skill levels easily the equivalent to a decent classical player -- started in late childhood or their teens.
Taking a short break from a deluge of work, to say I hope this article makes you feel a bit better heebie about what sound like pretty minor hiccups your two oldest are having. I am sure all the adults who love them will help them figure out reasonable ways to grow into more satisfying, helpful reactions to the world. Rather than this cruel absurdity.
I had a musical upbringing far from the madness described in the article, but still pretty standard in terms of consistent practice, lots of competitions, touring with youth orchestras, etc. There really is not a for example bassoon virtuoso industrial complex because there isn't the repertoire to support a full time bassoon soloist coterie, another reason to just go for the more obscure instruments. Absolutely some of the violinists, cellists, etc., I knew growing up had the full on craziness described. But if you are looking to set your kid up for lifelong musical enjoyment, possibly including opportunities to play as a highly skilled adult amateur, there is no way around the practicing thing. Last weekend we went to a really phenomenal amateur chamber music concert, the level of playing was very very impressive, and in one movement full on transcendent. The musicians acknowledged they could not do what they are doing now as non-professional musicians if their parents hadn't kept up the pressure to practice.
When our kid became interested in studying music he was already spending so much time on dance that we ended up dropping the piano lessons when his teacher took maternity leave, and then didn't find anyone he liked as much. But he had enough basic skills to keep noodling on his own with great enjoyment, and then when his questions re: theory went beyond what I could answer we found him a theory teacher who was willing to work on the slow, steady boil method - just plug away at a reasonable pace for many many years and see where you get to. And when the kid theoretically* pulled back on dance and we said he could add instrument lessons of his choice (excluding like the vibraphone, not going to invest in that for sure) and the kid chose the accordion I didn't try and dissuade him even though it is pretty far from standard as a main instrument.
The end result is that no he doesn't spend hours on hours practicing BUT he regularly dives for the piano and accordion for pleasure, learns new pieces, writes his own stuff and spend a nice long time improvising on the squeezebox a couple of times a week as part of his practice. He set a poem for soprano and cello that was played at his step sister's wedding this past summer; basically, she just put him in charge of all the music. Practicing is occasionally a drag when he has to prep for a lesson, but overall he knows quite a bit and really enjoys playing already in ways that are likely to morph seamlessly into lifelong amateur enjoyment.
This whole process has at times felt like a gigantic risky mistake to me as it goes against pretty much everything in my own training, but I'm starting to relax and trust a bit that we haven't screwed him up for life (on this issue only, of course). I really didn't want the end result widget describes in 2.2.
I do think that the current system for training and promoting soloists is maybe depriving all of us of the next Richter, which would be truly a drag.
*Only theoretically pulled back on dance, he's now back up to basically the same number of hours per week, but just more varied. And the world of tap dancers is doing its best to tempt him into more more more.
Taking a short break from a deluge of work, to say I hope this article makes you feel a bit better heebie about what sound like pretty minor hiccups your two oldest are having. I am sure all the adults who love them will help them figure out reasonable ways to grow into more satisfying, helpful reactions to the world. Rather than this cruel absurdity.
I had a musical upbringing far from the madness described in the article, but still pretty standard in terms of consistent practice, lots of competitions, touring with youth orchestras, etc. There really is not a for example bassoon virtuoso industrial complex because there isn't the repertoire to support a full time bassoon soloist coterie, another reason to just go for the more obscure instruments. Absolutely some of the violinists, cellists, etc., I knew growing up had the full on craziness described. But if you are looking to set your kid up for lifelong musical enjoyment, possibly including opportunities to play as a highly skilled adult amateur, there is no way around the practicing thing. Last weekend we went to a really phenomenal amateur chamber music concert, the level of playing was very very impressive, and in one movement full on transcendent. The musicians acknowledged they could not do what they are doing now as non-professional musicians if their parents hadn't kept up the pressure to practice.
When our kid became interested in studying music he was already spending so much time on dance that we ended up dropping the piano lessons when his teacher took maternity leave, and then didn't find anyone he liked as much. But he had enough basic skills to keep noodling on his own with great enjoyment, and then when his questions re: theory went beyond what I could answer we found him a theory teacher who was willing to work on the slow, steady boil method - just plug away at a reasonable pace for many many years and see where you get to. And when the kid theoretically* pulled back on dance and we said he could add instrument lessons of his choice (excluding like the vibraphone, not going to invest in that for sure) and the kid chose the accordion I didn't try and dissuade him even though it is pretty far from standard as a main instrument.
The end result is that no he doesn't spend hours on hours practicing BUT he regularly dives for the piano and accordion for pleasure, learns new pieces, writes his own stuff and spend a nice long time improvising on the squeezebox a couple of times a week as part of his practice. He set a poem for soprano and cello that was played at his step sister's wedding this past summer; basically, she just put him in charge of all the music. Practicing is occasionally a drag when he has to prep for a lesson, but overall he knows quite a bit and really enjoys playing already in ways that are likely to morph seamlessly into lifelong amateur enjoyment.
This whole process has at times felt like a gigantic risky mistake to me as it goes against pretty much everything in my own training, but I'm starting to relax and trust a bit that we haven't screwed him up for life (on this issue only, of course). I really didn't want the end result widget describes in 2.2.
I do think that the current system for training and promoting soloists is maybe depriving all of us of the next Richter, which would be truly a drag.
*Only theoretically pulled back on dance, he's now back up to basically the same number of hours per week, but just more varied. And the world of tap dancers is doing its best to tempt him into more more more.
It's a very accurate article. I was sent at my mother's insistence to one of the UK's five specialist music schools in the 1980s (the only one that hasn't since been implicated in sexual abuse scandals). Many of my peers have given up music altogether, others are now orchestral players or members of chamber ensembles. At least two had complete breakdowns in their 20s, and at least one tried to kill herself. A very few have made well-regarded solo recordings, but the happiest-seeming ones have discovered that they really enjoy teaching young children.
I chose to go to university instead of music college, and have never regretted it. (I was a recorder player, and you can count the number of international recorder soloists on the fingers of one hand; there's no orchestral or accompanist's track, and I've always known I would hate teaching. I've hardly touched the instrument in over 20 years.)
They do claim that you need to start at age N, where age N is some absurdly young age, but I'm not really _really_ sure how true that is.
I wonder this, too. I think a high number of the US women's soccer team grew up playing sports, but didn't focus especially on soccer in particular until they were in early adolescence.
Sorry for double post! commenting on an actual computer as opposed to my phone is strange business!
Agree with ttaM in 7.2. The next Richters will likely just end up in something other than classical.
They do claim that you need to start at age N, where age N is some absurdly young age, but I'm not really _really_ sure how true that is.
A child that starts very young with music is much more likely to develop perfect pitch, which is a pretty significant advantage in classical and jazz.
I actually spent a couple of years in a conservatory-level music program, and generally the best musicians were the ones that didn't have helicopter parents. Frequently they had parents who were also professional musicians or music educators, so music was a family activity from a very young age.
Having really finely tuned pitch can be a disadvantage when listening to music. Like physically painful, ouch no no no make it stop.
From what I understand, though, violin is rather unique in requiring an usually high level of focus at a very young age.
I guess perfect pitch, or really good relative pitch, is a definite advantage. I guess there are others, too.
For example, although, I started guitar in my early teens, which you'd think is quite late,* but my left hand finders are measurably longer than my right.
* I'm a perfectly OK averagely skilled player in lots of genres, but decidedly not a virtuoso [or even just 'very good'] in any. Lots of friends, also amateurs, are better players. I have a pretty good sense of how hard it is [or is not] to play particular things, though.
re: 15
I'm quite sensitive to poorly intonated or out of tune guitar. It's clearly not a function of some general 'perfect' pitch, it's more just long familiarity with the sound of the instrument. It does really grate, though. Some 60s and early 70s rock recordings are horrible to listen to that for that reason.
I find some historically informed performances that use particularly gnarly non-equal-tempered tunings a bit hard at times, too. There's a couple of Jordi Savall albums I have where I can really hear the 'beating' that you get when two or more instruments (or strings on a single chordophone instrument) aren't in tune with each other. It's not nice.
Ironically squeezeboxes often have built in beats! Especially pronounced (et fait exprès!) in musette instruments. When it is *meant* it usually isn't painful. But yeah definitely some unlistenable horribleness in some early early music recordings.
Seriously, though, fuck the violin. Most overrated instrument/repertoire ever.
In some African villages, the children have never even heard of Ivan Galamian.
I find some historically informed performances that use particularly gnarly non-equal-tempered tunings a bit hard at times, too.
But isn't the deal with equal temperament that everything is always just a little out of tune?
23: If you mean the guy who hit my retaining wall, I sent them an email.
My kid gets to play steel drum at school. I wish he was more into it, but he has no sense of how cool that is.
The better half has a copy of How Equal Temperament Ruined Harmony but some Duffin character and it sounds like the most delightfully perfect barmy screed with the obligatory kernel of pellucid perception. Makes me feel better just having it in the house.
btw dq were you at SFCMP's performance of Grisey's Quatre chants pour franchir le seuil?
we rarely hear about the people who finish third through tenth. Also-rans make up the vast majority in every race, but in any field of elite competition the losers have to subject themselves to the same work, same costs, same instability, same underdevelopment, but without the glory or affirmation that come with making it. We like to believe that the winners were that much better or tried that much harder, but the difference between the two is often an arbitrary twist of fate or a powerful person's whim.
This is very true, and not just in music. It happens in acting, sports, and even academia. What do you do when you made significant sacrifices in your life to be great at something only to learn you aren't great enough? It can be devastating.
I also think the explosion of global communications has made it all worse. It used to be that being the best in your village, city, or state was an accomplishment worth celebrating. Now that it is trivial to observe and compare people on a national and world level, the winner-take-all aspect has been magnified.
It used to be that being the best in your village, city, or state was an accomplishment worth celebrating. Now that it is trivial to observe and compare people on a national and world level, the winner-take-all aspect has been magnified.
Because of the global reach of the publishing industry, I can compare F's statement of this phenomenon with Kurt Vonnegut's, in [I can't remember but he definitely said it].
No, better half went and I took a couple of 14-15 year olds to Il Gattopardo at the Castro. Better half loved the Grisey and of course the flick was superb!
re: 24
I guess so, but the worst out of tune notes aren't that out of tune.
I think also, a lot of it is down to instrument construction. Some instruments, like the violin, don't really impose any limitations on which temperament you use, but that isn't the case with woodwind, or with fretted or keyed instruments.
I don't know which intonation system was in use on the recordings where I've particularly found the 'beating' grating, but there are multiple systems of just intonation, and various other systems that existed in the lead-up to the adoption of equal temperament. Combine that with the fact that some instruments just can't play in tune [with just intonation] in certain keys ...
Even an ordinary modern guitar isn't completely in tune in terms of equal temperament. The frets are in the same place for every string, for a start, even though the strings are different thicknesses and pitches. So there's a slight compromise. Worse on classical guitars, less bad on electrics [individually adjustable string lengths], less bad again with slight shifts in the position of the nut [Feiten tuning, etc], less bad again if you use fan fretting, and then there are various non-straight frets that purport* to give every string good intonation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fret#Variations
I guess the situation was much worse with historic instruments, and with woodwind.
But there I'm well out of my depth on the theory and the practice.
* e.g. http://www.truetemperament.com/necks/
32: I'm curious what your better half thought of David Lang's piece on the program (I thought it sucked).
Or of the Bruckmann/Ueno improv, for that matter. Some old people sitting behind me REALLY didn't like it, to the point of saying aloud, during the performance (!), "it's a goddamn disgrace". (IMO it went on a little long.)
He was underwhelmed by pretty much all else save the Grisey, but the rare opportunity to hear the Grisey left him sleekly content. As I recall.
Skipping out on the SFCMP playing Grisey to see The Leopard seems to be a thing with you.
Oh, it was sfsound that time. Same venue though.
SfSound has a frankly mind-boggling concert going on tonite only.
He says he's never been a big Brian Eubanks fan, but i hope it's great and you have a wonderful time!
I clearly confounded a different incident of trahaison of contemporary music with burt lancaster but am unrepentant. Certain movies really ought to be seen on a proper screen the first time. Have to take these parental responsibilities seriously.
I want to go because I like Nakamura and Akiyama a lot, but I'm too tired to want to bother. If the C4NM were still just a bike ride away, I'd go.
I sent TWYRCL this article a while ago; she declined to read it.
Did her parents make her read lots of articles starting at a young age?
They fed her lunch daily since she was very young.
re: jazz vs. classical virtuosity:
Many (but certainly not all) contemporary jazz pianists have the digital dexterity needed to navigate stuff like the Chopin or Liszt Etudes at respectable tempo, in a brute force, "right notes sounded in the right place in the bar" sense. I think that very very few, though, would satisfy a professional classical pianist or critic, in terms of command of subtly fluctuating dynamics, at tempo, varying within the fingers of one hand, with similarly demanding material. Within the professional sphere, the attention to nuance seems to me to be extremely high. Whether this strictly speaking "needs" to be the case, vs. other things that could be prioritized, might be an interesting subject. (David Helfgott gave, by all professional accounts, disastrous performances in the '90s, but that didn't stop his audience from finding beauty in Rachmaninoff.) Whether you need to start super early to gain that kind of nuanced control I don't know, but it seems relevant that most living virtuoso pianists seem to have had their brute force chops in place by early puberty, around the time many jazz pianists report starting to get serious with the instrument.
If there are real chores, and practicing lets the musician off, less whining about the practice - except on the part of the ungifted kid who has double duty. Disastrous. Being of second importance to your parents so your sib can be a competition also-ran, there's sweetness!
A student in the Class of 2019 will have no idea which was Tom and which was Dick and which one their mom liked best.
32, 40.2 Il Gattopardo? I heartily approve every single time, even if the screening is the recent 4k restoration in lieu of the original 35mm Technirama print . /cinecelluloidsnob
And I must thank dairy queen for this very good advice. I'm currently packing for an assignation in Berlin this weekend.
47 is liked twisted fiction and therefore utterly believable, jesus.
50 yay!
I've been working my way through Elizabeth George's Thomas Lynley/Barbara Havers books this fall (I know, I think most of you hate them, and there _is_ something insufferably aristocracy-worshipping about them, but they've just been very efficient mind-off-life-taker-off-ers these days). The first one was pretty excessively graphic and disturbing, and she seemed to have toned it down just enough for books 2-10, but I just finished 11 (A Traitor to Memory), and the psychological horror really reaches a new height of "bleh, this is no longer escapist." All about a violin prodigy and his family. Basically another novel form of this book/thread--a bit of the OP's book, a bit of 47, and some other horrible family dynamic permutations, all thrown in and blended together.