Longer. Some time ago I had a nice conversation with a surgeon who collects, and occasionally demonstrates the firing of, U.S. Civil War and earlier firearms.
I think fewer people carrying would help even without the reduction in numbers of guns.
Also, I thought that the long life of guns (except when used in combat conditions) was one of the reasons the NRA went fucknuts. Gun makers reached market saturation in terms of numbers of gun owners so they seized control of the NRA to boost existing gun buyers to buy more guns through nerd-collector impulses and fear of a future ban.
To the OP: What if there was some sort of registration, and if the gun registered to you murders lots of people you are held responsible? Like cars? And like guns in every civilized country? Would that help at all?
In Japan, bullets*, which don't last as long as guns, are at least ten times more difficult to get than guns.
*Gunpowder and lead are available, but I don't know that I would trust DYI casings.
Do-yourself-in casings are notoriously unreliable.
Why not reuse the casings? They don't wear out.
You could probably use buyback programs to get rid of a lot of guns. Funded in part by a cut of the massive insurance premiums required for those guns that remain.
I don't think buy backs will work so well to cut shootings. The most likely to shoot somebody will want way more money for a gun than the less homicidal.
Probably would reduce suicide, so there's that.
Australia used gun buybacks and strict licencing:
I suspect the licensing is doing the work. Plus the much lower starting number of guns.
I think part of it is when your crazy prepper uncle dies, and leaves you all his guns, you might decide to keep them - or, if there is a buyback program, you might decide to cash in. Your crazy prepper uncle is never going to sell his guns to the gummint, but there is an opportunity to dispose of them, once his hands are cold and dead.
That would also depend on the payment being very much higher than is typical in the U.S. Gun-crazy relatives tend to buy guns with high resale value.
CNN: "Authorities not ruling out terrorism."
I want to know who the authorities are considering terrorizing.
Sure, but if its illegal to sell guns to anyone but the government, the prepper's nephew is pretty likely to the government. Sure, maybe there's a better price to be had somewhere, but its just less of a hassle than tracking down and haggling with a black market small arms dealer.
In that case, I'd argue there is much more than a buy-back going on.
Oh shit. MSNBC just reported that one of the suspects may be a U.S. citizen named Said Farouk. Get ready for the collective freakout.
Canada has a lot of guns. Not as many as the U.S., and their buyback and registration program ended up costing more than it was worth (at least according to my redneck in-laws). But honestly, I don't care if there are 100 million guns. Tax the hell out of ammo and make people responsible for what is done with their weapon in a manner similar to cars. But we'd have to stop accepting that mass shootings are just these things that happen.
It's more than 100 million by quite a lot. Maybe 2 or 3 times more.
Maybe global warming will rust them more quickly.
I'd argue there is much more than a buy-back going on.
Well, yeah, but the premise of the OP was "ok, if guns are illegal, how do we actual get rid of them given the long timeframes involved." And that's my solution to that particular problem.
But I'll agree its not a great solution to the problem of reducing the number of guns generally, in the absence of the "guns are illegal now" proviso.
"In a world where guns are illegal and eligible for repurchase by the federal government, one man earns his living on the edge of the law. See Vin Diesel in "Estate Sale Gun Buyer."
I am 100% confident that large-scale gun buyback programs would reduce suicides and accidental shootings, and for that reason alone I wholeheartedly support them.
I don't feel confident that I have an informed understanding of what would reduce mass shootings. I am at a loss for what I can do as an ordinary member of the public. We can't even get Congress to fund any damned research on the problem.
It's more than 100 million by quite a lot. Maybe 2 or 3 times more.
Yeah. There are more guns than people in the US.
Because people aren't as long lasting.
We just need to breed some kind of predator rodent that eats guns. Problem solved.
For example, I have blisters on both my little toes and I still have at least a half mile to walk before I can take off my shoes.
We just need to breed some kind of predator rodent that eats blisters. Problem solved.
Which won't help me because I'm not flying United.
It's still rude to take off your shoes on the plane, right?
We'll always have guns floating around--I can imagine a situation like Ireland, where there'll be buried caches of weapons all over the country. But a buyback will definitely help and I'd support one. Also registration--the lawsuits the NRA has filed against cities with lost-and-stolen gun laws here piss me off so much.
7 - People do, and reloading them/fussing around with different bullets or propellant or whatever is (I am told) a reasonably inexpensive hobby to boot. It doesn't take much either, just a deep interest in very, very careful measuring and precise mechanical work or a total disregard for one's own safety.
There are a lot of guns but it's not hard to see ways to reduce the number of them floating around at a moderate but steady pace over time, which isn't completely eliminating the danger all in one go but which is certainly good enough for public health justifications. You just start a buyback program and make them less fun to own as toys, and a lot of those collections will end up in storage, or in government hands, or just kind of wasting away somewhere when the owners stop buying bullets for the ones that are more restricted/illegal to use for playing army or whatever. You can't eliminate all the guns, obviously, and it's not obvious to me that we should either, because I think hunting is on the whole a good thing. But making bullets more expensive, adding (significantly) more complicated registration laws, sticking a heavy tax on all bullet sales, requiring liability insurance for gun owners (of varying kinds depending on the gun), and so on would have a nice cumulative effect over time. Sure you'll see people owning guns illegally - that happens now as well. But the idea that we'd have something just as dangerous as we do now or that we'd have basically the same number of weirdos with private arsenals isn't that plausible.
Lab-engineered fungus that's attracted to gunpowder and makes guns difficult or impossible to shoot by clogging firing mechanisms?
39: The next great libertarian dystopian sci fi novel.
For example, it's totally possible for someone who really, really wants to to own a machine gun. It's expensive as hell to get one legally, and you need all kinds of paperwork and background checks and so on but it is possible. (And you can probably buy sort of legal kits to change AR-15s or whatever into (illegal) automatic weapons, and every so often someone has a "clever" idea to get around the laws that do exist.) And there are almost certainly illegal ones out there that we don't know about (I mean, it's not like there aren't loads of them floating around in other countries). But you still don't see much as far as that goes even though it's possible (legally or illegally) to have one here, because it's complicated and risky and more than anything else (I think) just not as fun as it would be if they were treated the same as semi-automatics and available at WalMart or something.
I think I'd start by outlawing the resale of semi-automatic weapons. People who want to hunt can still use lever-action rifles, and people who feel the need to have handguns for self-defense or whatever would have to go with revolvers. Basically, shift gun ownership toward stuff that takes a bit longer to reload and is a bit less glamorous from a gun fetishist point of view.
Oh shit. MSNBC just reported that one of the suspects may be a U.S. citizen named Said Farouk. Get ready for the collective freakout.
I guess this means our next few mass shootings will be at mosques.
CAIR is about to hold a news conference. Press release says they will condemn today's shootings and that a relative of one of the suspects will be at the press conference.
38.1: And sometimes the machine to clean the empty casings will summon a graboid.
Figures the Colombians would be ahead of the game on this market niche.
I was browsing the Wikipedia entry on national gun laws, looking at the European ones. Some are more restrictive than others and the variations are interesting. But many have rules that seem to be not horribly restrictive. EU citizens have not been disarmed. Take Sweden for instance; I was expecting it to be much more like the UK. Nope. A person may be granted license to own up to six hunting rifles, ten pistols or a mix of eight rifles and pistols. Owning more firearms than this requires a valid reason. Firearms must be stored in an approved gun safe. Collections are covered separately. Seems quite reasonable to me.
So a Swede with six rifles can only buy a seventh if it comes with a pistol?
I guess Miguel Caballero is old news. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/09/26/survival-of-the-fitted
6,7,38: Christ, you people. I happen to reload my own rounds for multiple calibers and no, it's not unsafe or difficult. Also, yes, the cases do wear out. They're made of brass, not Wolverine's bones.
42 People who want to hunt can still use lever-action rifles
Bolt action, damnit. Lever actions are awesome and I have one in .45 Colt but they're not the same.
Wolverine bone would be quite the thing. First, catch Wolverine.
That wiki says that target shooting is the third most popular sport in Czechia. Huh.
WRT the OP, rifles aren't necessarily better on longevity at all. Rifles are running far higher pressures and velocities and wear out barrels much faster than a handgun.
In general the longevity of the guns now is higher, probably much more so. There's been a huge amount of progress in steel quality. It's a golden time to be into knives as well. Once upon a time not too long ago 154CM/ATS34 was hot shit in the knife world and now it's like the minimum standard for a high performance blade.
So the BBC at least is reporting that the alleged killers may have had some personal grievance with one person at the party -- it will be interesting to see how that plays in fascist Peoria.
one of the suspects may be a U.S. citizen named Said Farouk
THANKS ASSHOLE, thought every Arab American at once.
Japanese gun laws are of course draconian:7 years for possession; 3 to life for firing a gun; very easy to get convicted as an accomplice to gun ownership, 7 years. Plenty of articles online.
Earlier I was going to mention Shinya Tsukumoto's Bullet Ballet about a ordinary guy in Tokyo who becomes obsessed with getting very specifically an illegal Smith and Wesson Chief's Special. The reviews, which aren't very positive, mention the acceleration to an orgiastic and frenzied violence in the course of the movie, but most of the American reviewers miss an extremely important aspect, the controlling metaphor. Good movie.
The destructive object of desire and obsession is Western, American.
"Yosuke Otsubo conservatively estimates that two-thirds of the rarest American clothing items, especially of the denim and workwear variety, remain in Japanese hands." ...from Tyler Cowen.
"accomplice to gun possession" ...so sloppy.
Serious question: in the event of the emergence of a mass fascist movement in the US, armed to the teeth, are the various police and National Guard forces around the country sufficiently reliable to deal with it?
La la la, just another morning in America.
ALERT from CPS and CPD
Posted on 12/03/2015
The following is a message from Superintendent of Schools Jeff Young and Police Commissioner Robert Haas:
The Cambridge Public Schools (CPS) has been informed by the Cambridge Police of an anonymous e-mail threat of gun violence against "Cambridge, Mass Middle Schools." This latest threat was directed specifically at the Amigos School, Putnam Avenue Upper School, and Vassal Lane Upper School. These buildings also contain Tobin Montessori and Kennedy-Longfellow School.
Schools will be open on Thursday, December 3. However, out of abundance of caution, the following safety measures are in place: The buildings have been locked and alarmed since 10:30PM. Cambridge Police and CPS Security will conduct a detailed walk-through of the named schools before 6:30AM. Police and Security will be present and visible at the front door of all school buildings throughout the day. Police will be present throughout the building, throughout the day, in every CPS school, not just the three mentioned in the threat and will continue until the conclusion of after-school activities. Due to enhanced measures, staff and students will be required to enter through a supervised front entrance at all CPS school buildings.
Cambridge Police is working collaboratively with local and federal partners in this investigation. It is believed that this threat is likely a continuation of previous threats that originated early Tuesday morning and police have confidence from their investigations that the same individual is behind the e-mails.
Police, city, and school personnel are working closely together to keep our students and staff safe. In the meantime, if anyone sees anything suspicious or unusual, please call the Cambridge Police at 911 (emergency) or 617.349.3300 (non-emergency).
Speaking of shootings, NMM to Pistorius' manslaughter conviction. Now murder.
Seeing that the shooter stormed out of a holiday party and came back shooting, I can only assume that he said, "Happy Holidays" to someone who replied, "Merry Christmas."
62: Not to dispute the change, but it feels weird to me when someone is sentenced to a higher crime upon appeal. The US justice system explicitly disallows that, right?
60: No. In the event you describe it is almost certain that there will be significant sympathy for the fascists among the police and National Guard if my acquaintances are anything to go by.
"What about my right not to be tried twice for the same crime?"
"It's just been revoked."
Is our disproportionately large number of gun killings in line with our disproportionately large number of guns? Or is it disproportionate even after adjusting for the number of guns? I had the sense that it was the latter, but I guess I'm not certain. In the first case, you could make a very strong case that more gun control would clearly help. In the second case, better gun control couldn't hurt, I guess, but it's a lot less obvious how much good it would do.
Reading about the case, if it really is that the higher court found the same pattern of facts established at trial legally constituted a different crime than what he was convicted of, that seems a little better.
69
Is our disproportionately large number of gun killings in line with our disproportionately large number of guns? Or is it disproportionate even after adjusting for the number of guns?
It's disproportionate, but only slightly. In particular I'm thinking of the 6th chart there. I read that article around when it was published and refreshed my memory of it last night and this morning due to that meandering discussion with my conspiracist co-worker.
I think the most reasonable cause for optimism about gun control and/or murder rates is cultural shifts. As we approach racial harmony (asymptotic progress is still progress, right?), urban crime won't be such a dog whistle for white people and minorities won't be quite so ghettoized. The number of households with guns in them is already lower than you'd think based on the number of guns per person, and it's just that the people who have guns stockpile them. As gun fetishism and racial paranoia becomes more and more a thing of your crazy uncle, and then your crazy great-uncle, hopefully the non-gun-owning majority will be more willing to accept common-sense regulations.
I mean, all this assumes that nothing else changes and the above trends are the only relevant ones. If global warming somehow causes major population displacement or something crazy like that, we're all screwed, but there's no way that could happen, right?
"It's disproportionate, but only slightly" seems belied by "The number of households with guns in them is already lower than you'd think based on the number of guns per person, and it's just that the people who have guns stockpile them". Put differently, my question is: ok, how do incidents of gun violence compared to the percentage of households that own a gun differ for America vs the rest of the world. Your two facts quoted above would suggest that America has much more gun violence than the rest of the world, when measured against the percentage of households that own a gun. (It's not quite so disproportionate when measured against the total number of guns in America, but that just because there are so many collectors who have 20+ guns.)
I saw some next-level newspaper comment section trolling in the comment section of a German newspaper: "We know that San Bernadino was an Italian saint -- possible that terrorists targeted this location to attack Christians?"
Maybe a gay Jew protesting St. Bernardino's relentless preaching against those two groups of people!
For some reason lots of people seem to be misspelling it as Bernadino instead of Bernardino. It was the first Twitter hashtag that came up yesterday.
This especially hits home as I work with people in that same county government.
He was just prematurely anti-capitalist.
The r is silent, at least in local white people dialect. I'd never been to that building but have spent some time in SB and in Redlands (nice town) and yeah this sucks.
Facebook is so depressing right now. Too much bullshit of every description. What an awful society/civilization we dwell in.
I'm waiting for the Fios guy. Hold on a bit more.
I use the name enough to clip to "San Berndeen[o]", with the last vowel barely there.