How many times do you think the author said "Holy Shit!" when researching this article?
"Before Yahoo shut it down in 2004, she boasted online, her "Femalebarebackgangbangextreme" discussion group had nearly 50,000 members. "
Forging documents related to early Christianity is my retirement plan. I'll need to learn a bit of Coptic and Aramaic, but my plan is merely to copy existing work onto paper that will test as older than any extant copy. It's beating the age tests that will be the real fun.
Also the author got the definition of hotwife wrong. If humiliation is part of what the husband gets out of it it's cuckolding, not hotwifing.
Hotwifing is what you do to staft a caf if you don't have the keys.
Maybe he was confused: "Ill let you come use my wifi while I watch everything you do! #hotwifiing"
3.2: Unfogged -- your source for pedantry on any topic.
4: I had to jumpstaft my caf this mofning!
I've been misprouncing Unfogged all these years.
9: Yeah, who would have guessed the "f" was silent?
OMG was that too long. I hate these journalism-as-detective-story style news articles. Just give me the goddamn bottom line. Don't make me wade through all the steps you went through in the process of researching your article. This is not a mystery novel.
"University of Eastern Pee-Pee Land" is funny. I want a T-shift.
I'm usually a big proponent of 12 but this one actually was a pretty great detective story, and the layers of uncovered weirdness were actually weird. Don't try this at home, journalists!
Just starting the article, but wildly unsympathetic to people who denigrate others based on their university affiliations. Been sneered at one too many times by unemployed grad students.
Yes, 14 is definitely true for this article.
I know right? Jesus never even mentioned her once. Like a tale from heebieville.
I did feel a tiny bit sorry for Professor King, whose incompetence/incuriosity/laziness were exposed in such a superficially sympathetic and charitable manner.
Professor King's attitude is hard to understand. Why wouldn't she want to know the outcome of the provenance research before it was published?
Well there was this from one of our own years ago. I thought the fakery and King's naivety were well established. But I hadn't expected the rogue-German-egyptologist-Stasi-museum-director-fucking-his-gangbang-porn-hotwife-into-speaking-Aramaic angle.
I recently read the Gospel of Judas, which has an incredibly sad story of how the manuscript deteriorated after discovery, but before scholars could look at it.
From linked in 23 -- In fact a little poking around in the world of gnostic scholarship shows that there has never been a better time to make your own gospels
Go for it, togolosh!
22: Because the truth hurts and people try to postpone it as long as possible?
I remember following this when it first broke and thinking at the time that King was being culpably careless at best. But all the backstory is barking mad.
I've seen it argued that it was wildly unlikely that a 30-something craftsman in that place at that time would be unmarried, so most likely he decided to become an itinerant preacher when his wife died. Pure speculation, of course, but it seems to make sense.
Carpenters are good husband material.
Everybody needs houses. It's steady work.
In Kazantzakis' novel, Jesus made crosses.
30. Similarly Bulgakov's book, written earlier but published later.
I'm intrigued by extra-canonical miracles in fiction, but I don't have much patience for crappy religious fiction. Ben-Hur has one. Movies like Evan Almighty have them. It seems that as long as the artwork is broadly sympathetic to religion, socially speaking, the details do not matter much.
This is strange to me, because taking sides on hairsplittting differences is historically the path to schism, one of the surest ways that an organized religion can become diminished. Does anyone know, how do turf arrangements work between mormon and protestant proselytizers?
29: Whatever became of Becks' brother?
Am I the only one who thinks the most interesting character in this story is Fritz's unnamed wife? [spoilers] A pornstar who engages in religious automatic writing and claims to speak Aramaic during sex?
Stranger than fiction, that's for sure.
Speaking elsewhere of this controversy, noted religious scholar Adam Kotsko suggested that there is a fragment, just a little bit later in the text, which reads "And the Disciples said, 'How fat is she?'"
unnamed
So I guess nobody else recognized her work from the fairly complete description given?
I imagine I could google it up, but I don't want to with the kids around.
I imagine I could google it up, but I don't want to with the kids around.
Sorry, rob, I just don't think that would be a good career move for me.
Joking, and I think it might be difficult-- metadata loss is a huge problem for big pieces of the internet, I think especially this kind of material. Also, you'd have the same problem as with say trying to find a painting from a description.
I was going to have Leon Wieseltier post about being a big fan, but eventually becoming disgusted by her poor pronunciation of Aramaic, but then I thought he'd probably hunt me down and sue me.
So, you control Leon Wiesltier but are also afraid of lawsuits from him? Just who are you, peep?
42: That's a question I have failed to answer to my satisfaction for all my conscious life.
The old story of discovering the forgery via the typos and the online pdf that they match was already a pretty amazing detective story. This takes it to the next level.
This forgery story is also very long and a terrific read. The psychopathology behind these high-level forgers who get caught is fascinating. What must it be like to know you've developed a stratospheric level of expertise and skill, but not quite enough? (I suppose that could be mouseover text.)
Orson Welles' F is for Fake was super-interesting I thought. There's also a straight movie about the forger he includes, but I liked this treatment better, especially for being from Welles, whose first success War of the Worlds on the radio flirted with fakery.
I would absolutely buy a 4-oz jar of mayonnaise (and even for inflated prices, if it was delicious). I can never eat the stuff fast enough to make it cost-effective to buy. I would buy a 2 oz tasting jar of mayonnaise.
I would also buy a jar of mayonnaise large enough to block my finger from drifting onto the "post" button before I thought better of sharing inanities. Oops.
Literally everything ever posted here is an inanity, except for the thing about cold-brewed ice tea, which was useful and I still make regularly.
I really did hit "post" accidentally, though, and then had ample time to wonder how long I would have stayed in the mayonnaise jar trance before thoughtfully wrapping it up. My inner life is rich in cholesterol.
The Atlantic posted an update with Professor King's response to the article. I think it's pretty odd. I had thought that the author might be depicting her a little unfairly in the original article -- how could she have been so totally incurious about the investigation? -- but I guess not.
"Your article has helped me see that provenance can be investigated," she said.
I... words fail me.
It CAN be investigated, LK! You just gotta BELIEVE!
"I'm mostly just relieved. I think the truth always makes me calm."
Herb's: Provence, London, New York.
I just finished the article in the OP. It was great.
I like how hardly any story about bullshit has a mention of Florida real estate and any story with Germans involves porn.
-hardly. Stupid free Yuengling phone.
I thought Brown was about logistics
Bonsaisue offered to bring me a beer from the store (she went to get children's motrin for a sickly kid). I declined, but shouldn't have.
Bonsaisue offered to bring me a beer from the store (she went to get children's motrin for a sickly kid). I declined, but shouldn't have.
I guess we'll never know why I said no the second time.
Drinking smuggled beer and demeaning colleges that would have rejected me had I applied. That's how I roll.
Off even any of the topics here, Lee and I successfully got through mediation today. I'm actually optimistic about the nearish future rather than just consoling myself with how much more independent the girls will be when I'm 40 or whatever. It took a year and really will take longer but I'm getting most of what I want, which is what I think the girls need.
I'd drink to that, but I didn't smuggle another Yuengling.
I hear you! I was going to go downstairs for lemonade once the kids finally fell asleep, but I'm way too wiped out.
In theory, I could get lots of different drinks if I went downstairs. But I've had enough drinks where I don't need more unless they are free.
My neighborhood bar is closing. Now I feel guilty for cutting back on my drinking recently.
Congratulations Thorn! Does this mean you'll get some time to yourself in a way you can predict? And may I ask, what happens in mediation if one of the parties crosses an agreed on boundary? (I'm asking for myself, as my son's father and I have no legal settlement, six years on, and sometimes I wonder if we should get one but I'm a little afraid to mess with something that's working for both of us.)
At this point, I still get no breaks. But there's a mechanism for Lee to work up to a schedule where she'd sometimes have all three and this I'll have a break if she can manage that safely. For that reason, this isn't a permanent settlement in terms of parenting time, but it clearly lays out how we'll get to one in a mutually agreeable way.
Lee was strongly opposed to having a document like this, but especially because our family makeup is non-standard, I thought it was essential for there to be something in writing that's enforceable just to provide the clarity we and the girls need. Once this is entered in front of a judge, who could disagree with a mediated parenting plan but typically won't, it will be enforceable just like any other custody agreement. So in an emergency, one of us could show it to a police officer to show we're supposed to have this kid and if one of us is in violation, the other can petition the court for remedy.
Using a mediator (in our case this time with lawyers present for both of us) was less expensive and took less time than arguing it all out in court would have. And this way there's no worry that the judge would have ordered the standard 50-50 custody, which I don't want to happen, or the standard child support calculation she didn't want. Instead we found solutions that provide financial support and shared custody but in a way that I hope will work for our situation.
80: My wife and her ex worked out a shared parenting plan with a mediator. Soon after they had signed on a carefully planned schedule to share custody equally, he basically dropped out, and since he wasn't making any money to speak of it didn't seem worth a legal fight . In any case at the time it didn't seem like the worst result since my wife mostly just didn't want to have to deal with him that much.
82.last would work for me and is a likely-ish outcome. But I can live with what we've agreed to.
the standard child support calculation she didn't want.
Christ, what an asshole.
Congrats, Thorn. What a relief.
Yes, Thorn - congrats and the certainty must be a relief.
Using a mediator (in our case this time with lawyers present for both of us) was less expensive and took less time than arguing it all out in court would have.
SO glad you've been spared the money hemorrhage, in addition to all the other good things. I'm sure there will be setbacks, but I hope they're not too bad: how's that for cautious optimism?
One person's hemorrhage is another person's bread and butter!
Congrats Thorn. Great news.
Everyone should at least make a try at mediating every dispute, and that goes triple or quadruple for divorces. In basically any civil dispute courts are best seen as a backstop setting default rules that govern the bargaining, plus a procedural backstop for when one or both sides are too insane to bargain.
plus a procedural backstop for when one or both sides are too insane to bargain
And even then it can be doable if you play your cards right!
We still have to go to court and this isn't the end of all of it, but I really don't care. It got stretched out in part because it was to my advantage to have a history of things working out as they have, so I'm not complaining exactly. It's just been in many ways a grueling year and anything that gets me farther away from her is fantastic and thrilling.
One person's hemorrhage is another person's bread and butter!
Exactly. Why do you hate us, Lurid???
It's more the thing where, in a partnership made up of a world-historical jerk and a near-saint, somehow the near-saint ends up paying all the lawyers' fees while the jerk slithers off relatively unharmed but still howling about one or two tiny concessions. More cosmic than practical injustice, really. (Thorn is actually not the person I have in mind here.) (And I think everyone's still kind of on speaking terms with the divorce lawyer, a lifelong family friend, because we're suckers through and through.)
||excerpts from The Day The Clown Cried have apparently leaked onto the internet|>
95:
Well they're some sad things known to man
But ain't too much sadder than
The tears of a clown when there's no one around
Oh yeah, baby baby, oh yeah baby baby
Well they're some sad things known to man
But ain't too much sadder than
The tears of a clown when the dead bodies are piled up in mounds.
95 is the best news I've heard all week. 80 too. Granted, it's been a crappy week.
Glad things are looking up for you, Thorn!
On the topic of the fragment, here's an article from 2012:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/sep/19/papyrus-jesus-wife-academic-debate
If I were forced to pick a side based on just that article, I most likely would have sided with King. On the one hand, we have a feminist-friendly "professor and expert in the history of Christianity at Harvard Divinity School" and "a scholar of the New Testament and early Christianity from Princeton University." On the other, "a professor and Baptist pastor in Tennessee" and "a biblical scholar and professor at Asbury theological seminary, in Wilmore, Kentucky."
The fallout from this apparent forgery suggests that technical competence is not required for career success in religious studies.
90 et seq.: Just because it seems topical here, Buck and I are getting the legalities of splitting up managed very smoothly, and everything looks as though it's going to be fine and low stress.
80: Congratulations! I'm glad the extra time confirmed that what's already working was a better starting place than an abstract "fair" start.
103: Great news! Unfoggetarians are starving the divorce lawyers. Sorry, will!
And this is very topical, because if you had read the complete Gospel of Jesus's Wife you would know that J.C. and M.M. split up amicably as well.
YOU GUYS, I totally have a divorce lawyer. And I even bought one of his kids dinner the other night because his wife is a good friend of mine and also on school committees. Lee has a lawyer too. We were paying two lawyers and a mediator (who's also a lawyer) to sit in a room and make us behave and work things out. Totally worth it.
106: That's good. I was starting to feel bad for the divorce lawyers.
I mean, mine's not being a divorce lawyer for me since we weren't married. But I'm not starving will's ilk. And Lee is using the lawyer who did all the girls' adoptions, so it was nice to be in a room with people who actually know the children we were talking about.
I thought the fragment was 'my wife. I think I'll keep her.'
Geritol for the Copts.
109: I thought it actually translated to "Take my wife," and the "please" was on the missing part.
I found the complete manuscript in my basement. No idea how it got there, but I can vouch for its authenticity. I'm almost done with the translation.
The break-up scene is quite touching... "But I do believe in you, Jesus. It's just that now I need to learn to believe in me."
Buck and I are getting the legalities of splitting up managed very smoothly, and everything looks as though it's going to be fine and low stress.
That is fabulous. Although the lawyers have something to do with the nastiness of divorce, it is really the people who drive the train and decide whether to focus on productively resolving the issues.
I mean, don't get me wrong, this all still sucks. But the practical arrangements are sucking as little as reasonably possible.
113:
Fortunately you only have another year or so before it stops sucking.
114: It's 14 plus change until Selah turns 18. Is that what you'd guess for my timeline? (Just kidding, partly. The parts that don't suck don't suck at all, which is wonderful!)
I think the year is about the common one year separation before a divorce gets granted. Barbaric.
95: Yeah, except it's called Life Is Beautiful and it sucks.
I'll have a break if she can manage that safely.
I hope so, but with her being a safe parent even being in question, I'm not placing money on it.
Barbaric or not, you really need to wait for the final decree before you have a bag of dicks sent to your ex.
Glad things are working out Thorn and LB and sympathies for the awful parts.
119: Yes, well. Receiving money will at least make it easier for me to hire babysitters, I guess.
111
It puts a new spin on, "my ex thinks he walks on water."
Also on, "christ, what an asshole."