Is there, like, an article I could read about that?
I was googling around and reading snippets; plus I'm on my phone. This is a journey each of us has to take for himself.
Here's an article. I haven't finished reading it myself, so I can't necessarily vouch for it, but so far it's pretty damning.
I dunno, I suspect Denard slept pretty well.
And he and Denard do kind of strike me as kindred spirits.
Denard was at least a patriotically deniable operator. Manafort seems pure mercenary.
How many coups has Manafort been a part of? As many as the Pope?
Compare Manadork to Bob Denard and I cut you. How many aliases religions and takeovers of the Comoros does Manadork have
Manafort doesn't need coups. He works entirely within ostensibly democratic processes, and rigs them to his clients' benefit.
He's more like Debbie Wasserman Schultz than Bob Denard in that way.
(I've now finished reading the article linked in 3.)
I keep thinking "Save more money at Denard's".
Oh, god, the current state of politics is triggering symptoms of clinical depression in me that I haven't felt in 10 years.
14: I hear you. A funk of extreme grumpiness descended upon me at some point yesterday -- my housemate came in and asked "What's up?" or some such and I declared a very bad mood suddenly, sort of as a warning to him to steer clear. He immediately asked what I was reading online: answer: Trump and Russia. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz. Fucking Bernie-or-busters. And some hysterical thing at the Huffington Post by Michael Moore about how Trump Will Be Our Next President ... which I did not finish, thank you very much. I really need to manage my anger at this point.
Doesn't help that it's 100 degrees (F), 109 with the heat index.
I think Moby could heal 14-15 (plus me!) by elaborating on the excellent deals on coup supplies he imagines.
Michael Moore is worthless, don't bother reading him. I mean he did a decent documentary or two but just don't read him or take him seriously.
Nope. Really busy. Trying to finish enough stuff that I can go out tonight.
Michael Moore is worthless
Yeah? I don't know one way or the other; and I very rarely read HuffPo, so I had no way of telling whether this was some sort of -- again, hysterical -- screed or a serious thing. I chose to ignore it, which made me really annoyed, to be honest. Then I became pissed off about the acquaintances I have who are yammering about voting for Jill Stein -- two of whom are in swing states -- and had an imagined conversation with them in which I eventually had to say, "It's not a good idea for us to discuss this any further [asshole]" (that's the anger management). Well, you know how it goes.
My facebook is full of articles that talk about the Clinton's corruption and reference the number of people close to them who died and the supposed cocaine smuggling in Arkansas. Its going to be a dumb three + months.
Feeling you all on the politics. On Brexit day I was dazed as if someone had died.
22: I've heard from British friends that they felt the same.
As for Roger's facebook feed -- I'd unfriend or block or whatever those people. The last thing anyone needs is for the left to go on its own witch hunt. It's a disgusting turn in American politics.
What's up with this? Glenn Greenwald and Corey Robin apparently defending Trump's thoughts on Russia and NATO.
I don't have the heart to wade into it. Robin, though, is more familiar to many of you -- as CT readers -- than he is to me, so I thought I'd ask.
I'm not going to unfriend my favorite uncle or all the people I met while volunteering for Bernie. I think they have a right to their feelings, even if I don't want to read the crap I know is going to be making the rounds til November.
This is good: http://theweek.com/articles/637586/what-watch-democratic-national-convention
I may have to wean myself off of reading LGM for the next 3 months (or maybe the next 4+ years), because the commenters over there seem to be literally going crazy with inchoate rage.
I knew it was a bad idea for them to write a post a day for 2 weeks insulting H.A. Goodman.
24 is interesting. I think the left has this reflex WITCHUNT! reaction which blinds it to the fact that every so often there is in fact a witch.
Usually a Russian one, which is fitting.
Well, we're supposed to be less stupid than that.
26 I feel you. I've been feeling like that for some time now about LGM and finally posted same in one of the threads only to be (mildly) attacked for it.
We're supposed to be a lot of things, parsi. This obviously isn't a year for anyone's better self.
Ladies and gentlemen, it's time
For all the good that's in you to shine
For all the lights to lose their shade
For all the hate that's in you to fade
Well, no. I'm just thinking this particular stupidity is quite far down the list right now.
Wait, what are we talking about? I'm talking about some portions of the left apparently being perfectly fine with Trump's seemingly equivocal support for NATO. e.g. 24.
Your 28 seemed to conflate that with my 23.last -- so I'm not clear what we're referring to as stupid: the NATO thing or the anti-Hillary witch hunt thing.
I'm talking about portions of the left apparently being ok with Trump possibly being a Russian agent of influence, not the NATO thing in particular. Not talking about Clinton at all.
So the witches I'm talking about are McCarthy's witches, foreign agents.
I've noticed before that you never know who is going to pop up on Twitter with an "Actually Putin is good" opinion. It's like self-driving cars. A few people across the entire political spectrum can't wait for self-driving cars and seem actively annoyed that they don't exist already. Everyone else thinks "Seriously?".
Uh, okay. I've completely lost track of this, I'm afraid. Sorry.
We can at least agree that people are being wrong on the internet.
Uh, okay. I've completely lost track of this, I'm afraid. Sorry.
The emails were hacked by witches in self-driving cars, and the whole operation was bankrolled by Putin.
"Putin is good" is going too far, but I certainly think the man has a legitimate interest in maintaining Russia's sphere of influence in the region, and particularly in maintaining a buffer zone between NATO countries and his border. I understand why the prospect of NATO expansion on his left flank -- something I gathered was agreed would not happen -- has him concerned. I hope that doesn't sound like "Putin is good".
Here parsi, go read some Sam Wang: http://election.princeton.edu/2016/07/25/the-polls-are-always-bouncing-to-the-left-and-to-the-right/
You're right, Parsimon. There are at least two Russia issues.
One is Trump's policy of not supporting our allies in NATO, which some people agree with for antiwar reasons.
Another is Trump's policy of admiring Vladimir Putin and wanting to hang out with him and hiring the same employees, which some people agree with on the basis that "Oh, as if Russia is any worse than [Saudi Arabia / Israel / something else]. Sheesh, such conspiracy theories, thinking Russia is a threat. What is this, 1970?"
And what may be a THIRD issue, the actions by Russia teaming up with Wikileaks to elect Trump president to weaken America.
I meant to say the latter issue is merely a possibility. But it's a third issue in the sense that the Trump campaign has probably had nothing to do with it.
AIUI it wasn't really agreed. It was agreed that NATO wouldn't expand eastward immediately post-1989, but the option would remain open for those who wanted to apply. The Russians have willfully misinterpreted this as a promise of no expansion ever.
Which is not to deny legitimate Russian interests, as you say.
47 - Thanks, I know the polls bounce left and right, particularly with the so-called "convention bounce". I'm not going to freak out about the current polls.
I'm off. Thanks for humoring me, guys. Did not know 50.
Right, the link in 47 is encouraging. Especially because Wang was one of the few people to correctly predict that Trump would win the primary.
The fact that Trump's businesses are deeply reliant on Russian financing is very troubling. The argument that we shouldn't guarantee all-out war with Russia over the territorial integrity of former Eastern Bloc states... is not even a little bit crazy.
Trump's main Russia advisor is Carter Page, who has gotten rich by working for Gazprom. Gazprom is owned by at least Putin cronies and very probably in large part by shell companies from which Putin personally benefits. In other words, Trump's Russia guy is directly paid by Russia, more than by Trump.
The DNC, like the US state department, was comprehensively hacked in 2015 by a group which used FSB viruses and several of whose members signed their communications in cyrillic.
These are the real issues, not rhetorical flourishes of admiration by either Trump or idiot lefty bloggers.
The 1990 conversations were primarily about German reunification. Germany's prime minister was of course willing to promise anything at all to get back East Germany, with the obvious implication that the occupying Russian forces would leave East Germany. James Baker's spoken assurances didn't get recorded as far as I know. Baker, the UK foreign minister, and I think others, claim that Baker only spoke about no immediate NATO accession of Poland after elections that would leave the Communists without power there.
Lithuania would give Russia a land route to supply their naval base in Kaliningrad. About 5% of Lithuania was deported to Siberia between 1940-1960. Why exactly does Russia get a veto for what the survivors want to do with their country?
55.last- Sure that's true but it's also one of those things you never say out loud because the ambiguity is what makes it work.
I'm not sure what cost is worth paying, but surely the idea that Russia doesn't get to kick around any neighboring country it likes is worth something?
The bones of a single Pomeranian grenadier?
Now I want to train a dog to throw grenades.
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Speaking of not being worth a single Pomeranian grenadier -- I'm going to be in New York on the 29th and the 30th. Anybody interested in a meetup?
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Somebody needs to explain 62 to me.
He contained multitudes, but they decided to strike out on their own.
People who are sympathetic to a Free Tibet are often surprisingly equivocal on the value of the continued freedom of the other states occupied by communist dictatorships around that time. Boring religions I guess.
Reading vox on Rowdy Sanders supporters at the DNC. A couple thoughts:
1) I wonder if this is actually good for Clinton. I'd bought into the idea that a calm, well-run DNC would be a good contrast to the RNC. But that would also give nothing to talk about except, "do we think Clinton running a drama-free convention will be enough to distract people from . . . ?" Whereas drama at the convention is immediately a topic of conversation. I also think there's a chance that it helps move people away from lingering hopes for Sanders to see that these sorts of disruptions don't look good.
2) This bit made me sympathetic to some of Tigre's vitriol.
The "lock her up" chant -- a favorite of delegates to the Republican National Convention that was heavily criticized -- has made an appearance at the Democratic convention as well:Bernie delegates from CA chant "Lock her up"
-- Betsy Woodruff (@woodruffbets) July 25, 2016
Either way, it feels like nothing about this election is fitting into the conventional mold.
Kevin Drum weighs in and is feeling grumpy with Bernie Sanders at the moment.
51
I've never quite understood why it is considered reasonable that a big, powerful country gets to dominate its weaker neighbors via the "legitimate sphere of interest" loophole. Do we think the US should have invaded Cuba after all? (Not to mention Venezuela.) If you're a big, tough, nasty dog why does that give you a right to bite everyone around you? Is Russia so weak that a few million Estonians (or whatever) are an existential threat? This isn't exactly the WW1 era, when masses of conscripted troops were going to overrun (pick 'em) Belgium, Poland, East Prussia, Ukraine, France.
73- I think you and Walt are both manifesting a strange willful blindness. You are both talking in a context that simply assumes that the US rules the world and gets to decide what other nations are and are not allowed to do. Mostly that context does apply, but in the case of Russia specifically it has some weaknesses. Russia still has thousands of nuclear weapons and the doctrine of MAD still applies, so stationing missiles and antimissile batteries in neighboring countries may look like preparation for a first strike.
Russia is a weakened adversary and it makes sense to exploit that weakness, and certainly if you are doing any fighting you want to do it on or nearer their territory. Still it is legitimate to question the degree of brinksmanship you want to engage in with a nuclear adversary.
Doesn't that apply equally to Russia's adventurism? Or do you buy into the idea that strong countries should be able to dominate weak ones in their neighborhood?
I don't think should figures into it much.
It looks more like a board game to me. Sometimes I apologize when I take my neighbor's territory. :)
OK so that sounded more callous than I actually am. I have a lot of sympathy for the human beings who get caught up in the gears of these events.
It seems like what drives policy makers making these kinds of decisions are motives similar to those of the player of a strategy game. If you want to understand what is going on I think it makes more sense to be thinking in those terms. I think if you are thinking about the 'right' of Lithuania to self determination you are getting distracted by propaganda that most likely none of the players cares about.
It seems like what drives policy makers making these kinds of decisions are motives similar to those of the player of a strategy game.
Not necessarily. The more good history I read the more I think geopolitics has to do with the wife's cousin who has a brother who wants to start a timber mill in Manchuria but needs a loan from a bank in Nagasaki that needs a loan from London and loose money and the timber mill needs the railroad built out so the RR guy in Osaka...
We don't see all these conversations and connections from the outside it looks like corruption as do all C's and C's you are not part of but from the inside it looks like society and human feeling.
Also a lot of time foreign policy is done for domestic reasons. Every now and then Putin has to declare war on somebody to maintain his image with Joe Stolichpack. Kind of like here except we declare war on random concepts, whereas there they invade a neighboring country for no good reason.
I'm actually rather in favor of not letting Russia invade neighboring countries, for strictly self-interested reasons.
That would traditionally be "Josef Troika," but close enough.
(Vodka was and maybe still is sold in bottles that are enough for three people, with a paper cap you couldn't really stick back on if you didn't finish it. Guys would hang out by the liquor outlets and hold up three fingers.)
That said, you do get a more nuanced view of Russian-American relations here, especially if you work on Arctic issues where cooperation with Russia is crucial to make anything work. (I don't really work on that stuff personally, but I'm in sort of close proximity due to some of the stuff I do work on.) And cooperation on Arctic stuff has actually continued to be productive in a low-key way despite the recent worsening of relations overall. There's also a lot of bilateral communication at the subnational level; my boss actually had a meeting with a delegation of Siberians just today.
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Hey! We're having an impromptu meetup in Pgh! Redfoxtailshrub is here!
Cosma just described Wolf Hall as something like "literary historical competence pot " (he made very clear: not his coinage!) and omg this is the best ever.
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80: as opposed to invading non-neighbouring countries for no good reason ?
One can believe that large powers shouldn't invade bordering countries and simultaneously believe that World War III would be worse. Particularly given the US's history regarding Central and South America.
64: I could have a drink on the 29th. Anyone else in?
83 Teo can see Russia from there.
89, 64 Allow me to be the first to suggest Fresh Salt.
Is 86 a correction, or a planned night out?
A correction. A fantasy. Six of one? I hope someone confirms this night has existed.
Rtfs is eminently charming and once again I learn academia is awful.
88- There is that. I am slightly worried about how aggressive Clinton seems to be on Russia, but generally I trust her to be professional.
Trump is bought by Russia, but if there is one thing we know about Donald it is that he doesn't honor his commitments.
So on balance I think there is more risk of WWIII with Trump. Though I didn't expect to be as worried about it as I am lately.
Surely one can simultaneously believe WWIII would be worse and raise an eyebrow at any contemporary American complaints about Russian adventurism, given recent history. Pots and Kettles.
90: You're just jealous about the Siberians.
I'd question how fresh the salt can be after all this time, except it is, after all, salt.
I'm jealous of the Russians who can see teo. Wotta dreamboat.
97: plus they could be getting new shipments in, jeez.
I should clarify that I was not at the meeting in question and did not meet these Russians.
96 I've never met any Siberians so probably true.
I mean, I'm jealous about the Siberians, so it stands to reason.
So did anyone watch the convention?
I hear Michelle Obama's speech was a killer.
Beyond killer.
What kind of people think heckling Sen. Warren is going to help their cause?
That was extremely swell. I am very strongly in favor of the Unfogged Pittsburgh contingent! And now I am going to work on metabolizing this whiskey.
107.2: Hardcore nihilists. Regardless of how the election goes, they should probably look into working for Manafort and/or Putin.
You will find few persons more skeptical of American military adventurism than myself. However, I find the notion that fear of WW3 should prompt the United States to abandon its commitments to a NATO member to be extremely misguided. If we give up one, why not another? If we are willing to toss the Baltics under the bus, why shouldn't Putin try for Poland? Sooner or later, somebody will misjudge someone else. Good international relations are fostered on stable and predictable situations: we will defend Lithuania and Poland, we will not defend Ukraine or Belarus. No confusion, no pissing contests. It's worked in Europe for 70 years, more or less, let's not fuck it up.
Belarus is their client state, not ours, so of course we wouldn't defend it.
Nor would they attack it, of course, unless things got really weird. Which, to be fair, they might in the world of President Trump.
I was disappointed by the appearance of Jeff Merkley. I thought he was a dwarf with a hook for a hand. Apparently that guy LOST to him in the 2008 primary. But only by 2%!
<caledonian*>soooo</caledonian*>, after much consternation Mobes and I took a Lyft home: to an address very approximately Moby's, and then informally back to mine. After dropping Moby off, I learned the following facts from our (white male) driver, in this order--when do you start to worry, or at least figure they're having fun with the intoxicated Bürg[h]er?
1) "I go camping a lot" "Oh, in the Laurel Highlands?" "Yeah, at the [forget] national park near here, with my kids" (There aren't to my knowledge any national parks near there)
2) "Yeah, sure, I take my kids there a lot, they're four and six, child protective services has an issue with it but whatever"
3) "You know Pittsburgh could only last four days without food"
4) "We were one of the last arranged marriages in the region"
Hrmm. I ended up walking around the block, as a precaution. Cityfolk: easy prey.
Anyway: All who attend fulfilled their mensch quota. rfts: font of wit and knowledge! (true on the blog as well, but unexpected meatspace generalization is nice) I learned the local beer-as-well-as-mac-and-cheese bar** also has reasonable cocktails! & I failed to explain the Gaelic game show. Cosma's other half is delightful and you are a cute couple.
* It is a dialect in which the interjection is uniquely adorable and full of portents, and thus seems necessary.
** This is a thing here.
Nor would they attack it, of course, unless things got really weird. Which, to be fair, they might in the world of President Trump
White America must defend white Russia at all costs!
Allow me to be the first to say that Fresh Salt has mac-and-cheese.
My parents are only three or so hours from Fresh Salt*, assuming river-crossing issues, so I do find the Manhattan meetups tempting. But not tempting enough to cross New Jersey for. Some day.
*also, from fresh salt
The closest National Park to Pittsburgh appears to be Cuyahoga Valley (!), with the closer non-park NPS units being Allegheny Portage National Historic Site, Johnstown Flood National Memorial, Flight 93 National Memorial, Fort Necessity National Battlefield, and Friendship Hill National Historic Site. None of which, AFAIK, are in the Laurel Highlands, but I don't have a very solid grasp of Western Pennsylvania geography.
Nobody crosses Jersey and gets away with it.
Fort necessity and the 9/11 memorial are borderline: the former is (I think) in Fayette county and the latter in westmoreland, which both could count. But his knowledge of the peculiarities of public land was merely the beginning of potential falsehoods. But we have a bunch of state parks nearby that are beautiful in the way places are beautiful here. Nothing like out west, sure, but it's something.
The arranged marriage thing is admittedly much more alarming than his understanding of public land status.
Having skimmed a little of the article linked above, it seems to me that the people on the left who are being described as agreeing with Trump's Russia policy mostly formed their views on Russia and intervention before Trump was reminded by someone that Russia can easily be found on a map, and that it's customary for American presidential candidates to have a foreign policy.
What really requires explanation isn't the variety of views along the center left continuum on Russia, it's Republicans taking a pro-Russian position. IIRC, the Bushes were really close to Poland, which they never forgot, and Republicans were long supporters, at least in words, of Eastern Bloc anti-Communist movements. A bunch of Bush admin officials, including the esteemed Rice, saw Eastern Europe in 1989 in the Iraq of 2003*, and US Middle East policy seems to have pretty consistently treated Russia as an opposing interest.
*As if US soldiers tore down the wall as they did Saddam's statue, I guess.
120: when I was a lad in high school my parents would let me drive on my own to church. Not being a believer and being a teenager with an automobile, I tried to see how far I could get into New Jersey within the time limit imposed by the expected length of a Catholic Mass. I'm not quite sure but I think this took me to somewhere around Clinton and back to Pennsylvania, maybe a bit further. But as they (and you) say, no one escapes Eurasia New Jersey alive.
when I was a lad in high school my parents would let me drive on my own to church. Not being a believer and being a teenager with an automobile, I tried to see how far I could get into New Jersey within the time limit imposed by the expected length of a Catholic Mass.
Your parents didn't attend the same church as you?
118 I was impressed that lemmy caution made the drive out from near Philadelphia. You should definitely make the attempt some time.
What really requires explanation isn't the variety of views along the center left continuum on Russia, it's Republicans taking a pro-Russian position.
Are there any prominent Republicans other than Trump taking this position? Trump's own position seems to be easily explained by his business interests.
126: That's not far at all. Also, possible indiscretion error.
127: It's in the platform now, isn't it? Platforms may be meaningless, but I bet an elected Trump would follow through and most Republicans would continue to either hide in silence or fall into line, with only a few voicing opposition or leaving the party.
I thought lemmy caution was in Alphaville.
129: Sure, but only a trivial number of people were involved in developing that plank of the platform, and most of the people who approved it probably weren't paying much attention to individual planks. And the people who were paying attention were Trump loyalists who defer to everything their authoritarian leader wants, and that's why they support him.
I still think it's remarkable that Republicans could go from McCain on Georgia in 2008 to Trump on Ukraine in 2016 with apparently just a little grumbling. Supporting Sanders or even Jill Stein isn't being objectively pro-Trump, but remaining a Republican and not opposing Trump is.
None of this does me any good. You need to Uber/Lyft to New York. This weekend.
I will be in Atlanta this weekend. That's close-er.
133: Dude, that's, like, thousands of dollars for me. No thanks.
I don't know if Uber and Lyft even do transcontinental itineraries.
Airlines do, of course. But still, lots of money.
Like Uber, but for federally regulated flights leaving from designated public-run airports according to schedule not of your choosing.
138 is the answer to the surprisingly persistent question "Why don't we have flying cars yet?"
117 it does and it's pretty good.
135: Use the secret hole the Nazis discovered at the North Pole.
124. I thought it was traditionally acceptable to hang out for a while after mass. You could take a road trip and be home for dinner.
In Scartaglen there lived a lass
And every Sunday after mass
She would go and take a glass
Before going home by Bearna
We won't go home along the road
For fear that you might act the rogue
Won't go home along the road
But we'll go home by Bearna
110: Sooner or later, somebody will misjudge someone else. Good international relations are fostered on stable and predictable situations: we will defend Lithuania and Poland, we will not defend Ukraine or Belarus. No confusion, no pissing contests. It's worked in Europe for 70 years, more or less, let's not fuck it up.
foolishmortal is talking sense here.
It seems like what drives policy makers making these kinds of decisions are motives similar to those of the player of a strategy game.
hahahahahahaha no. See a) the "Deluge" thread and b) the history of the last couple of centuries.
stationing missiles and antimissile batteries in neighboring countries may look like preparation for a first strike.
Only if you believe that the world is flat. Eastern Europe is not between Russia and the US in any way that matters when we are talking about missiles. ICBMs fly over the pole. The Russians have globes as well as maps, so they know this. They also know that you cannot stop a re-entry vehicle heading for Washington DC or Minot ND or Norfolk VA or Mount Weather MD with a terminal-phase interceptor located in fucking Romania.
Use the secret hole the Nazis discovered at the North Pole.
IIRC one of the original objectives of the Wilkes Expedition was to assuage the curiosity of various US Senators about whether or not the earth was actually hollow, with the interior accessible through a big hole at the top.
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I have a cow orker who will be in Columbus, Ohio for a conference and she'd like to know if there is anything to do or see while she's there.
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145: results are inconclusive, although various subsequent investigations have at least allowed us to determine a hard upper limit for the diameter of the hole, if any.
Mount Weather MD
Actually Virginia, not Maryland. Closer to West Virginia. I used to live right across Rt. 7 from there.
146: Nope!
I'll defer to people who know more, butThe Wexner always seems to have interesting things going on, even though I never make it.
146: Nothing. Literally nothing.
115: Yes. It was a good time and great to see everybody.
(When he said "National Park", he might have been thinking of the National Forests. There are two of those that are close-ish. Probably a serial killer anyway.)
125: my father was largely areligious; i don't recall why I didn't go with my mother, but either she didn't go because of health issues or I convinced them I should go at a different time.
146: When's she coming? The Martin Wong exhibit going on now at the Wexner Center is great if she's into that kind of thing. Also the Ohio State Fair is about to start if she's more into that kind of thing.
156: And this could be the year we finally get a butter Lebron James!
The closest National Park to Pittsburgh appears to be Cuyahoga Valley (!), with the closer non-park NPS units being Allegheny Portage National Historic Site, Johnstown Flood National Memorial, Flight 93 National Memorial, Fort Necessity National Battlefield, and Friendship Hill National Historic Site. None of which, AFAIK, are in the Laurel Highlands, but I don't have a very solid grasp of Western Pennsylvania geography.
Instead of National Parks, Western Pennsylvania has a National Forest.
That forest is not in the Laurel Highlands. I'd say that Johnson and the Flight 93 memorial and Fort Necessity are in the Laurel Highlands. I'm not sure where the exact boundaries are, but that's my impression.
I can vouch for Cuyahoga Valley as a pretty great place for hiking. Might be a bit far from Pittsburgh, though.
The closest National Park Service Location to Pittsburgh that I remember is Gettysburgh national battlefield.
I don't have days pinned down yet, but third week of August I'm driving to Pittsburgh and then to Cleveland with the kids, to look at CMU and Case Western, and maybe do some hiking or something as well. What would any of you western PA/Ohio people do to amuse a couple of teenagers in that part of the country? I kind of wanted to drag them through Fallingwater, anything else obvious?
Is the convention at the convention center or the University? If convention center, there's an OK indoor market for hanging out and eating nearby, North Market. There are a couple of pleasant neighborhoods possibly accessible by bus-- German Village and Grandview Heights.
Thurber was from Columbus. Reading some of that and wandering around might make the place seem nicer. The main library at the University used to have open stacks and has a great collection-- wandering around in there if she's a book person might be pretty cool. All the other big libraries I have been in have closed stacks-- how common is a big collection combined with open stacks?
If you make it the second week of August, you can go to the only thing that happens in Western PA every year -- Pennsic War.
163: Cedar Point, if they like amusement parks.
It's an all-day thing but whitewater rafting on the lower Youghiogheny is really nice, doesn't demand skill, and is safe. Water might be kind of low that time of year. If you're interested, I can look up which outfitter I've used.
I don't know what teenagers like to do, but they aren't allowed in Kelly's or the Squirrel Cage.
By Fallingwater, there's a bunch of stuff. Ohiopyle (scenery, the rafting mentioned above), Fort Necessity, a small casino, and a very fancy spa/resort thing.
University libraries seem to have a whole range of building/stack policies for people not affiliated with the university. All the UCs except Berkeley are open, plus I've been to UMD-College Park as a non-student. But I think private universities and college libraries in busy cities tend to require ID to enter.
Right by CMU, the Carnegie Museum is good. But that's maybe not a teen thing.
Sally is art people, so that might be a thing.
There's art and stuff that isn't dull too.
I can point you to the site of an act of arson that resulted in two deaths and litigation going to the Supreme Court.
I remember the Duquesne Incline (a funicular that takes you up to a nice view of the whole city) as being a cool thing to do in Pittsburgh. However, I wasn't a teenager when I did it, so YMMV.
The whole University Circle area right next to Case Western is nice. The Cleveland Art Museum is really quite respectable, as museums go. Good dining available nearby in Shaker Square.
And I'm still trying to unload my condo that's a 20 minute walk from the university. If Sally decides to attend Case Western and is interested in buying, let me know.
There's two inclines. The Mon Incline is by Station Square, which have some very dated shops and restaurants, plus Duck Boat tours.
That reminds me, you can now kayak in Pittsburgh. It's under the 6th Street Bridge on the side with PNC Park.
We rented a tandem there a few years ago and went up and around Washington's Landing. The rivers are sluggish due to the locks, so it was easy and fun.
I've not actually done it there. We went out to North Park.
Friendship Hill. Even teens should pay homage to AG.
Who ought to be on the goddam nickel, if you ask me. Which is probably why no one does.
181: Did you know he personally coined the term "Athabascan," in the course of setting out the first systematic classification of Native North American languages? He really was an impressive guy. Someone should write a musical about him.