Also it's short.
Congratulations on having such a long attention span.
O.K. I don't get it. But I'm probably not supposed to.
I skimmed just enough to gather that it's about the drinking requirements for a young, hip, woman. I think Catherine A. has written about this, as well.
Then Mindy slides her Tom Ford sunglasses back over her eyes
What does it mean that she needed to put in the brand of the sunglasses?
2: I thought you would be able to relate to someone who has to drink to deal with the pressures of being fabulous all the time.
6: I can relate to having to drink to deal with pressure. I just assumed everybody did that and it wasn't worth noting.
Those guys on the panel with sound like assholes, but I wondered if they were thinking, "Jeez, we hate it here too, but don't you know we're supposed to just lie?"
9 is missing a "her" after "with" but it won't make sense to any of you anyway, since you haven't read the article.
The real issue is our society's sexist division of labor under which men drink beer while women are relegated to drinking wine.
When did toes the color of robin eggs become a thing?
Since ankle tourniquets came back.
She works in an office which has a bar and where everyone keeps a bottle of booze on their desks. She's either living a life very different from 99.9% of people, or she's lying using corroborative detail intended to add verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative.
You mean you weren't sold on the Tom Ford sunglasses?
Just screw up your eyes and squint into the pitiless desert sky, a.k.a. John Ford sunglasses.
14: I wondered about that too, but I then I understood she was having alcohol-withdrawal-induced hallucinations.
14: That jumped out at me as well. I have never worked somewhere that would be normal. And I work in a notoriously alcoholic industry in a notoriously alcoholic country.
I completely missed it. I sort of started skimming after a while.
re: 14 / 19
Yup. Oxford colleges are pretty boozy. So when I worked for one of those (briefly) there was quite a lot of drinking, even fairly early in the day.
But 14 would be completely abnormal anywhere I've worked.
Everyone having a bottle of booze on their desk sounds like places I've worked but there it's less for actually drinking than demonstrating "I'm so good at my job I need to be prepared celebrate a professional victory with drinks at any moment." The booze for *sad* drinking goes in the file cabinet.
And the "I'm drinking at least one bottle of wine a night to dissolve the day off of me". Right, sure you are. And all those horrible, horrible sounding flavoured vodka alcopops as well. lYou're a) relatively young b) skinny c) female d) American, none of which contribute to high alcohol tolerance, and we're supposed to believe you're putting it away like Jeffrey Bernard? No.
Also, how the hell do you write an article about "women are all drinking heavily because of the unique pressures of being a woman" and not even tip your artisanal hat at the fact that men drink way, way more than women and always have done?
Banker's Club vodka. For when you might need the $5 you saved.
Mmm. I once interviewed for a job in the office of a law partner with a fully (down to odd gummy bottles of peculiar liqueurs) stocked bar, but that's the only time I've ever seen it. One of my firms had occasional 'glass of wine in the office' things (if I remember rightly, which I may not, they were called afternoon teas?), but no one got hammered at them. So whatever she's talking about, it's not NYC lawyering.
(I kept a bottle of whiskey in my desk for years, but mostly just because it was given to me when I was at work, and for atmosphere. Never actually opened it until I got around to bringing it home.)
Oh, crossed with Ms. Stabby, who's worked at drinkier firms. I suppose my first firm was genteel, my second was tiny enough not to have a culture, and my third just didn't seem that drinky.
Even a small cup of yogurt is big enough to have a culture.
I would have called it more of a petri dish than a cup of yogurt. One with things growing in it.
I keep a bottle of cava in my office to be opened and shared with the lab in the event that we get a major grant funded. Fortunately, I've been saved from the dangers of excessive drinking by having my proposals get rejected. Silver linings.
There have been two bottles of Corona in our office fridge for at least the last year and a half. I think this speaks well either of our abstinence or our taste.
Assuming they are the same two bottles.
Someone should bring in a lime and see if that changes anything.
It looks like she was doing something indecipherable at Amazon, which I know nothing about culture-wise, but nothing about the amounts consumed by or around her surprises me, especially since she quit, so isn't holding herself out as normal either in volume of consumption or in vigilance about the presence of alcohol. I quit drinking quite a while ago and remember thinking things like "I steel myself for the company-sponsored wine tasting. Skipping it is not an option" a lot, which, turns out skipping is 100% an option, skip everything.
I learned from it. Because maybe I'm an empath or some shit like that. Or just because I have daughters and thought, well, fuck, what a shitty world they'll have to join. Or whatever.
You people just don't understand how hard it is to be a sober female private eye.
She's a really good stylist.
They toast me for taking one for the team. And when we are good and numb we Uber home, thinking Look at all we've earned! That bar with the twinkly lights. That miniature food.
The frenetic display of consumption is a horrible byproduct of living in postindustrial capitalism and bathed in surplus, for everyone there, younger and older, male and female. She does a nice job of describing her particular view of the social problem as a young woman who's recently given up drinking.
(I kept a bottle of whiskey in my desk for years, but mostly just because it was given to me when I was at work, and for atmosphere. Never actually opened it until I got around to bringing it home.)
That's probably it. She didn't realize that everyone else just had the bottles there to look cool, instead of drinking one every day/week.
I'm with 18, didn't think the description of how she was "dog paddling through the booze all around" her was intended to be taken literally. In addition to the obvious hyperbole about the office, I also doubt there was a pharmacy with self-serve beer taps.
I figured she worked at an ad agency. People I know who have done that have talked pretty openly about the horrible drinking culture.
I'm pretty sure such a pharmacy exists.
I've seen self-service taps and pharmacies that sell beer. I've not seen them together, but I live in a state with very restricted alcohol sales.
If you replace all 100 bottles of corona from the wall of the ship of Theseus, is the song still catchy?
The article actually reminded me a lot of a piece heebie(?) posted about a year(?) ago that I can't find because we all (and not just me!) talk way too much about lesbians and clothes about a woman who'd come out recently and was giving up parts of her old wardrobe. Deliberately peeling off some sort of your identity you'd seen as expected for your gender gives you a chance to really look at that in a new way, but as usual the zeal of the convert is an issue too.
There's definitely an alcohol culture here (and now a visible counter-alcohol culture), though visible alcohol on desks is a minority taste. The bottle of rye under my desk has been there for three years or so, which speaks to it not being used much. The office admins keep a central stash of bubbly for celebrations, instead of everyone having their own. It's sensible and efficient, in a weird way (And they keep it fresh and rotated by having occasional midmorning mimosa events).
This all reminds me that I'm not supposed to be drinking anything today, including at the weekly social-event-with-alcohol, thanks to some minor surgery tomorrow. Bah.
Regarding the essay itself, I was surprised that that familiar ad tagline was for a product I've never heard of. Does Enjoli still exist? It probably hasn't been advertised on TV in 30+ years.
She says it's from the '70s, which I for one sure can't possibly remember.
I didn't get the reference from the title post because I never had any idea how spell "Enjoli," but the song as been running through my head since I read the article.
I'm pretty sure it lasted into the 80s.
Me too. Maybe that's no why no real woman can ever satisfy me.
Do you remember the Enjoli perfume commercial from the 1970s? The chick who could bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, and never let you forget you're a man?
I blame that bitch for a lot. For spreading the notion that women should have a career, keep house, and fuck their husbands, when the only sane thing to do is pick two and outsource the third.
The last part is interesting. Since between the 70s and now, haven't we gone from sort of expecting adultery to be common, to a social norm that adultery is a horrible, incomprehensible, unforgivable thing.
53 is correct, but in terms of pop culture CN is also right. The turning point was the release of Fatal Attraction.
It's a lot easier to object to something if you're not relying on the person who did it to pay your bills -- to the extent that you're right, and there's less quietly accepted adultery out there, it seems plausible that the explanation is that there are more women in an economic position to object when they feel ill-treated. (And of course generally less restrictive mores means that some amount of extramarital sex that looked like tolerated adultery in the '70s, now gets categorized as an open relationship rather than adultery at all.)
It doesn't say which you should outsource. On the grounds of keeping house being the least enjoyable, that's the one I'd be getting someone else to do.
I think she says you can manage any two and outsource whichever the third is, but I'm sure not saying you're wrong.
My main association with the Enjoli commercial is Miss Piggy singing it. I can't listen at work, but I think this is the clip.
55: No, it was herpes.
from The Big Chill (released in 1983)
Karen: [smoking a joint, passes it to Harold] No... I know that Richard will always be faithful to me.
Harold: [takes the joint, about to smoke it] That's nice. You trust.
Karen: [shaking her head] Fear of herpes.
55: That's probably most of it, but the economics also work better for men now. In the 70s, a man divorcing his wife would either have to support two households on the same income as he had before or leave his wife (and possibly his kids) in poverty*. Given that the former wasn't possible except for relatively rich people, divorce was often seen as more of a dereliction of responsibility than adultery.
*Let's leave aside "impoverishing himself" as not very likely.
61: Whereas in our modern world, it's hardly a dereliction of responsibility at all! Truly, we live in a utopia.
The ad agency I worked at had a fridge of booze with DO NOT OPEN BEFORE 16:45 on it. My takeaway from the essay is that I should try bourbon with my vanilla icecream.
Obviously the latter in your timezone.
64: You definitely should. I made a bourbon apple pie with a green tea whipped cream that was fantastic.
I should probably talk more about how I don't drink much, which has definitely made me think about how much and when I do want to drink, but ehhhh.
Bourbon with vanilla ice cream is OK; Frangelico is better..
63: As I read "til death do us part," if both members of a couple cooperate in a murder, they've met the vows fully.
Or just announce the separation at a funeral. One might have to wait a while, but there would be legal advantages.
But who said anything about fairness? This isn't about what's fair. It's about what we can afford.
Nicely put.
Drinking in offices always brings to mind the scene in King Of The Hill where Hank Hill starts yelling "Can't you see you aren't making Christianity any better, you're just making rock and roll worse?" I'm in an industry where practically every social and networking event involves boozing but it rarely happens in offices.
*yelling at the dorky Christian nu-metal office. Gah
I knew that. I don't know why that's what I remember about Hank Hill, but it is.
Oh, this is the post I was talking about in 44 and I guess it's only a few months old. Time flies!
68: I'm also in the rare to never category for drinking. It's an odd place to be--and, like in the OP link, it seems that everyone assumes that's so I can judge you.
It feels a little like the cracked article about casual racists, and the mismatch where often the racist assumes that you're just posturing for purity points, or so you can humiliate the racist and they'll be branded forever... when your intent is often to just get them to knock off the specific behavior.
I was going to say I have half a bottle of Bushmills 16 in my desk drawer, but on closer inspection, it's more like 10% of a bottle.
re: 23.1
My previous girlfriend (before my wife) -- slim, late 20s (at the time) -- probably got through booze on that kind of quantity. More, probably, come to think of it. I once worked out how much we drank, in units, in an average week, and it was pretty scary.*
And this wasn't dramatically alcoholic binge/secret-drinking type behaviour, it was regular pub going with a fairly heavy drinking crowd, and a fairly large amount of wine at home while cooking/with dinner/in front of TV.
It was still in the order of at least 1 bottle of wine a day, in terms of units.
* I drink much less now.
Cassandane and I are cutting back on our drinking, mostly in hopes of losing a little weight. I'm torn between "why didn't we do this earlier?" and "Christ, I need a drink, what'll do for an excuse?"
It's nice to save money, drinking screws up my sleep, and it's not like I'm missing out on parties. 90 percent of my drinking is over dinner or in front of the TV with Cassandane. Given that I'm not a party animal and basically never need it to break the ice in social situations, why not skip it, right?
But it turns out that I actually like the taste of a lot of beers and wines and some liquors. Who would have guessed that just drinking water is boring? (Yeah, we could get soda, but the goal was to avoid empty calories. We could have more milk and juice, I guess.) And even if I'm not getting tipsy drunk, it still feels nice to have a drink to relax. But if I say that after a totally normal day too often, I feel like it's a slippery slope to three interventions and dying alone in the southwest.
80.1: I didn't even particularly lose weight, or not enough to make it seem worthwhile. Though I am losing weight, so maybe it's just a slow process.
80. I am also a friend of beer. I'm occasionally brewing tea to have something bitter to drink with fewer calories. Good green tea costs, but Iranian markets sell great black tea packed in Sri Lanka that's very cheap.
I really like the tipsy drunk feeling. The trick, which I've not had too much trouble with, is to stop and hold there.
83: I've never been a big drinker, but I did used to enjoy that tipsy feeling. But lately it seems alcohol just puts me to sleep.
Don't try to mix with Redbull. That's the worst of sleep and awake, plus nausea.
Hi everyone. I clicked through and read a bunch of the OP author's posts because they are relevant to certain of my interests (writing, balanced life). This post was charming. Here is my question: it sounds like once she hit bottom, and quit drinking, a few years out her life is now amazing and she is incredibly productive, fit, and happy. Is there any way to do this without first spending a decade as an alcoholic? Can you trick your mind into believing in a tabula rasa and constantly attending to and relishing the miracle of life? Asking for roughly two dozen friends.
82: If you're interested in affordable quality Chinese tea, check out teavivre for green and Yunnan sourcing for pu erh and (some) oolong.
87. Thanks! I live near a TenRen outlet, maybe shouldn't have mentioned price. I've come around to the existence of a price-quality scale on tea as there is on wine, with the black tea I like being a happy outlier like vinho verde.
Also, even expensive tea is cheaper than alcohol, so being price-conscious about it is basically irrational for me.
The biggest gain for me was getting a pot for brewing and buying whole-leaf tea rather than teabags.
83, 84: Yeah, as I get older and my tolerance drops, I find staying tipsy is harder than it used to be.
That's a good reason to avoid butt chugging.
Or to develop a controlled-release enema, I guess.
Who would have guessed that just drinking water is boring?
ZOMG SO BORING. I drink, I dunno, a quart during the work day, interrupted by a mini can of soda at lunch, and by the time dinner comes 'round, if it's a dry night, I want to weep. There are nights when I barely drink a thing between 6 and 12.
AB does fizzy water on dry nights, but I don't like it. I suppose I could try a St. Croix lemon or lime.
My brother drinks those all the time.
Maybe that's something different. I guess what he drinks is LaCroix. Stupid French.
It comes in cans. About two years ago, it started to show up where white people gather.
No, no, I was suggesting lemon slices as an alternative to boredom.
Oh. I've seriously underestimated citrus.
My child saw some movie or other--Auntie Mame maybe? and got the idea she wanted to be an urbane little urchin who mixed her mother cocktails. So now I get home from work and she meets me with a shaker full of grapefruit LaCroix mixed with white grapefruit juice, which she strains into a martini glass. I like this phase.
Technically, pain counts as an alternative.
If water's too boring for late night non-alcohol/caffeinated drinking, consider getting a variety pack of herbal teas.
My last comment made me wonder if it would feel desperate or ridiculous to drink grapefruit juice out of a Fancy Glass without a first-grader playing along, so I tried it just to see. It's still great, recommend.
88.3: Yes, making small pots of loose leaf tea made a big difference to me too. I do enjoy the pricier teas, but am perfectly content to drink bulk green or bulk black throughout my workdays, and leave special teas for personal time.
93: My dad was a serious soda drinker, but has managed to switch to water w/ Mio, due to similar boredom with water. It really works for him. (I'm fine with water all day, but I've always been less flavor seeking than most.)
No, I was dumb LaCroix. From Wisconsin, so pronounce it like a Midwesterner.
I was at Safeway last week, and AB spotted a case of Lacroix for a good price, then I spotted that it was a Manhattan apartment-sized 8-pack.
103: Don't drink coffee or tea.
Lemon slices in water are nice and all, but my taste buds aren't stupid. It's still boring water.
105.2: I've never had an artificially sweetened thing that wasn't gross to me.
I know, I'm being ridiculous.
107: Duh, not Safeway, Fairway. I was in NYC.
Can you trick your mind into believing in a tabula rasa and constantly attending to and relishing the miracle of life?
I have a good deal of relishing and compassion for self after my concerns of 2012-2014, but I don't recommend that method.
consider getting a variety pack of herbal teas
I fill a pitcher of water, throw a teabag in there and leave in the fridge overnight. By the next day it I have pleasantly fruity cold water.
I've trained the 13 year old this summer to make me a good Pimms.
My alcohol tolerance has gone up as I get older, for sure. Although if I get properly drunk, the hangovers are crappy two day affairs. Best alcohol-related feeling is two glasses of wine before dinner. Not that I drink a lot. Single digit weekly units.
Speaking of Whole Foods, you can either stand in line for a slice of pizza or order one on a tablet nearby. If you are physically standing two feet from the pizza you will be ignored in favor of the people ordering on the tablet. There is a lesson in there somewhere.
What to drink when you don't want water, alcohol, coffee, or tea? Homemade ginger ale, of course.
If you don't have any cucumber water.
When I was trying to cut back from some slightly unhealthy excess drinking, I had exactly the same realization that the author had, namely, booze and the expectation to drink it are every-fucking-where. But then she tries to make it a gender thing, and my experience is that it has nothing to do with gender. Everyone is trying to liven up their lives and escape from their problems, even though in the end I found booze wasn't even very good at doing that.
"Escape" is a loaded word. I prefer "gain perspective on".
When I was trying to cut back from some slightly unhealthy excess drinking, I had exactly the same realization that the author had, namely, booze and the expectation to drink it are every-fucking-where.
As somebody who, by and large, doesn't drink (and isn't social), I've gotten so used to ignoring when booze is around that I barely even notice it. If I were at an event that had a margarita tent my most likely reaction would be a quizzical, "huh, that's interesting."
In addition to the escapism angle, it also seems like people struggle to find ways to entertain themselves, and can't connect easily (especially not in the short spaces allowed by busy careers and family lives) and so booze also acts as a surrogate for that. What should we do when we actually find some time to get together? Let's drink, because I can't think of anything else, and I don't know how to talk to you or what to talk about without it.
She's right about the middle-class mom wine thing. I have so many HS classmates doing "meal-replacement shake workout cleanse with wine!" or the kind of cutesy slogans she notes. I don't want to judge too harshly because I enjoy drinking, but it's weird.
You could push them toward gin. Probably better for the environment or something.
I don't actually hang out with them or anything. I'm not sure I've pushed any friends to gin, but more for me!
I think your enthusiasm for gin may have inspired me to try it, but that was a while ago and I don't remember all the details.
Sounds like a successful experiment, then!
I hate gin. There's just something in that juniper flavour that catches in the back of your throat and makes you want to wretch. It's like mixing orange with chocolate (so awful! I almost think it should not be allowed, it's that wrong, and that disgusting).
128 to 126. I can see how the juniper taste would be off-putting to a lot of people, but I don't really get comparing it to orange and chocolate.
129: When I was a kid, at Christmas time there was always someone (maybe English, maybe Irish) who brought a Terry's Chocolate Orange from the UK as a special treat. And it looked so lovely! those orange-oil-infused chocolate segments so cunningly arranged as a citrus product.
But truly, one of the more disgusting flavour combinations I have ever experienced. Chocolate mixed with orange? No, I'm sorry, but just no. So awful! which then reminds me of gin (which is also quite awful in terms of its flavour).
I've seen those chocolate oranges. I'm not sure I've ever tasted them.
I know you hate all things Protestant but taking on gin is a step too far.
Gin is delicious. But chocolate and orange is indeed a terrible combination.
Chocolate oranges are great.
I'm not sure we really need your kind in our country.
134.2 is nearly exactly what a Canadian border guard once told me. And I hadn't even revealed my fondness of chocolate oranges.
134 to 130. I'm ready to change my views on secession on account of 133 though.
134.2 is nearly exactly what a Canadian border guard once told me.
I have no fear of a Canadian border guard. Except when he's scolding me for not having my American-born (but still Canadian, according to the Canuckistani nanny-state government) son's paperwork in order. "You've got the young lad's papers, eh? You should make sure he's down as a Canadian." Er, no, not exactly, because I'm lazy and clueless, and way behind in the paperwork. Canadian border guard waves us through, but not before fixing me with a look that tells me I'm a bad mother, and also a bad Canadian.
Of course I like both of those flavors. (I only paused for a split second over the spelling of that last word).
LaCroix really is amazing, though it's more fun to drink the weirder (standard*) versions of it than the lemon or lime (or plain) ones which really just taste like any other lemon/whatever sparkling water. I have no idea how they managed to make an apricot one that really seriously does taste like ripe apricots but it's pretty great.
*They also apparently have some really weird specialty ones which aren't in the supermarket nearest me and are things like blackberry/cucumber flavor. I haven't tried any of those but given their other successes I want to say they're probably trustworthy on those too.
I guess I just object to any attempt to combine a fruity flavour with anything good, like chocolate or whiskey.
And when in doubt, you really can't go wrong ordering a shot of Jameson's, neat (no ice, no citrus, no chocolate: because c'mon, let's get serious).
Chocolate and Jameson does sound like a disgusting combination, I admit.
I am also a friend of beer.
Yeah, but American beer is mostly too strong IMO. You want a nice session ale about 3.6%, especially if you're feeling your age a bit.
You're never going to get drunk on a 3.6% beer.
it sounds like once she hit bottom, and quit drinking, a few years out her life is now amazing and she is incredibly productive, fit, and happy. Is there any way to do this without first spending a decade as an alcoholic?
I seem to recall a study which found a) that about 50% of people in air crashes survive and b) that those 50% tend to report much higher than average levels of happiness and life satisfaction, and much lower than average levels of mental illness. So you could try almost dying in a plane crash.
143. No, but you can stay tipsy as long as you want.
Something vaguely similar certainly worked for me.
Which, now I think about it, might explain the paradox of why there are much higher rates of PTSD and suicide reported among veterans of modern wars than among WW2 veterans. Yes, OK, PTSD wasn't as well-recognised or as accepted back then. But there definitely were much lower suicide rates. Maybe the problem is that modern war is awful enough to provoke PTSD, but it isn't dangerous enough to create the countervailing "thank God I'm alive" mental-health benefit that you get from not dying in a plane crash.
Chocolate oranges: great
Gin: terrible
No, god damn it. Gin: great. Chocolate oranges: pretty nice.
As a general rule in life, everything* can be improved by adding ginger, chilli, lime juice, garlic or chocolate.
*Not just "every food". EVERYTHING. Consumer protection law. Cambridge University. The Hoover Dam. Micronesia. Emily Blunt. Racehorses. Retirement.
I don't understand the strength of feeling re. gin, which is boring as hell without being actively unpleasant. I prefer it to vodka, which is also as boring as hell, with most mixers, but that's about it.
||
NMM to Marianne Ihlen.
Leonard Cohen's muse. The letter he wrote to her as she lay on her deathbed is incredibly moving.
|>
As a general rule in life, everything* can be improved by adding ginger, chilli, lime juice, garlic or chocolate.
Certainly applies to gin. Lime juice, specifically.
Actually, even better than chocolate oranges are chocolate coated candied orange peels.
150. It's a fact of life that people in their 80s often die. Cohen is 82.
145: Maybe you can. A beer that weak does nothing for me.
153 Very sad and moving nonetheless.
Maybe you should be drinking stronger beer?
|| Chapter Nine is up. Now with added wiliness! |>
||
Longish, weirdly formatted interview with Marianne Ihlens remembering the 60s
RIP yesterday. So Long Marianne.
|>
Oh, the current story is that Ihlens was on her deathbed and asked somebody to tell Cohen and Cohen heard and sent her a beautiful letter over the oceans of forty years, and you can find that story. But you know empathy, says, what were Ihlens and Cohen thinking and feeling these last days and maybe so here is
Hydra Harbour click and pan
And oh jesus if you want a good start on the day, google up some images "cohen marianne ihlens" Apparently Robert Doisneau hung out on Hydra Island and there are pictures so motherfucking romantic they should be banned and burned.
This thread is making me think that maybe I'll take a drinking break in October, for two reasons (and half a third): 1. Lose weight, especially if I'm hoping to finally ride the Dirty Dozen this year; 2. Save $$*, and 2.5 maybe reset my drinking levels a bit. As measured by tipsy vs. drunk or fine vs. hungover, I'm not drinking too much, but as measured by how long the bottles last, I probably am.
Rather than going completely dry, I think I'll try something like zero bourbon and wine with dinner twice a week. That would be a dramatic reduction, and little enough that it feel like a thing (rather than a vague attempt to cut down), but it wouldn't eliminate all pleasantness and wouldn't put pressure on AB.
*this is shaping up to be the best financial year of our self-employed lives, and possibly ever, but this is just making me more interested in getting ahead while it's possible
Oh, and I finally looked at the link in the OP, and I feel like she's living in a different world*. Maybe she should move to a state with antiquated liquor laws.
*mostly in the first part, before she gets into the woman-specific aspects. That stuff I recognize from FB.
Something in gin (don't think it's the juniper, which I quite like in eg sauerkraut) tastes bad to me, but I'm sensitive to bitterness in general. Although sometimes I think it's just the quinine. I'm pretty sure I've never tasted gin without tonic. Oh, and I like genever.
I'm sure I've confessed this before but the reason I defaulted to gin is that I started drinking late (after college, basically) and didn't want to be compared to peers with more drinking experience, so chose something I thought would not be broadly appealing. That it often left me clinking glasses with 80-year-old gay men in the corner of a bar while we made scornful jokes about everyone else was an unexpected bonus.
Not liking beer, I still have no idea how to order at a bar. "I would like an alcohol drink, please." "What is the most ethanol I can get for my dollars?"
I know a guy who did the math at the bar I usually go to. The answer was PBR by the pitcher.
"What's the most ethanol I can get without having to run to the restroom every 20 minutes?"
PBR by the pitcher and a catheter.
I'm pretty sure I've never tasted gin without tonic.
Try a martini.
PBR by the pitcher and a catheter.
I can't stand PBR.
American beer is mostly too strong
Between this and the evergreen complaints about today's weed being too strong, the lot of you need to start a training regimen, stat. No way are you going to survive the coming race war, much less the zombie apocalypse that will follow.
170: I find it undrinkable. But the guy who did the math was, I think, on SSDI and couldn't afford scruples. Eventually, every bar I go to stopped serving him, I think because of symptoms.
Not liking beer, I still have no idea how to order at a bar.
Do you drink anything other than beer when you're not at bars? If so, you could order that.
Or if the problem is that you don't drink at all, most bars will sell you a glass of seltzer.
||
"Mayor Arrested in Meth For Sex Sting At Hotel, Police Say"
is a truly awesome headline.
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That was already mentioned in the other thread.
I can't keep up with every thread that involves meth for sex stings at hotels.
A friend of mine perceives gin as tasting sweet. She is, however, aware this is a nonstandard perception.
I was just going to say that too. Does she taste other things differently from the norm? (I do.)
Is it bitter or bitter-sweet? If it's the latter a gin rickey would be something to try because it's almost identical but without the tonic water (soda water instead, and a solid dose of lime juice rather than just a little).
My suspicion has always been that most people who don't like gin dislike it because they've had it straight (or very poorly mixed). Unlike vodka (which has exactly the opposite problem) gin really only shines in mixed drinks. It's one of the most versatile liquors, but it's also the only one where drinking it straight really isn't that great.
the only one where drinking it straight really isn't that great.
True. Except Xoriguer, which is sui generis and only needs a little water or ice.
183: I should try that. Maybe next time AB & I are on a date somewhere they make good drinks, I'll get her to order one and I can try it. That's certainly up my alley.
Clearly, the best way to prepare for a mostly-dry October is by learning to drink more.
Except Xoriguer, which is sui generis and only needs a little water or ice.
That sounds delicious. Unfortunately it looks like it's difficult to get in the US.
Be careful ordering one though - from what I've seen recently bars/restaurants have started assuming that when someone asks for a rickey they just want a collins with lime juice in it (the difference is that a rickey doesn't have sugar - just lime/soda/spirit, whereas a collins is basically spiked lemonade).
I was done with it anyway.
I like gin but tend to agree it's better mixed with at least a little something. The other day I did some martini experimentation - three tiny shots made with gin:vermouth ratios of 2:1, 4:1, and 6:1 - and 4:1 tasted best to me. I guess there's been this tough-guy attitude floating around that a martini should have at most homeopathic levels of vermouth (Churchill, etc.).
182: Yes, she cited other examples which elude me at the moment.
I learned a year or two ago that good sweet vermouth makes all the difference in a Manhattan; I should probably wait for good dry vermouth to try a martini.
Or just load it up with chocolate syrup and such.
Oh hey, question for you chocolate-and-orangephobes: how do you feel about fruit and meat? Pork and cherries, ham and pineapple, that sort of thing.
question for you chocolate-and-orangephobes: how do you feel about fruit and meat?
Well, I'm vegetarian, so my answer doesn't count (I do occasionally cook meat for the carnivores in my household, but that's not the same as eating it). But my answer is no. Meat should be salty or earthy or savoury, maybe spicy, perhaps a bit gamey? Anything but sweet. Meat plus sweet makes me think "rancid." Oh wait, I just thought of an exception: I do like the smell of maple-flavoured bacon, even though I wouldn't eat it.
The only chocolate-and-fruit combination that I genuinely like: chocolate-covered strawberries. I can tolerate chocolate chips (though I'd prefer walnuts) in a banana bread, but a banana split (chocolate sauce on a banana? no!) is just a category error to me. I guess I'm fussy about fruit. And chocolate. Not to mention meat.
The only chocolate-and-fruit combination that I genuinely like: chocolate-covered strawberries.
How about fresh pears, ricotta (lightly sweetened, possibly with a hint of almond extract), and shaved dark chocolate?
I'm now very sorry that pears are out of season.
how do you feel about fruit and meat?
I had some ribs with blueberry barbecue sauce last weekend that were delicious.
194: Eh, I dunno.
I'm pretty sure my food preferences are best described as low- to middlebrow. Problem is, I'm a vegetarian, which eliminates well over half of the standard low- to middlebrow food options. It's a narrow path that I follow.
I'm sceptical of the shaved dark chocolate. But the pear-ricotta dish that you describe? I guess I'd give it a try.
"Meat + fruit" isn't the same as "meat + sweet", as anyone who's had a sauce of sour cherries or plums with their venison, or quinces with their lamb, could tell you.
Yes on gin. No on chocolate oranges. Did I miss anything?
No on chocolate oranges.
Well, that's the key point. So: no, you didn't miss anything.
I once made plum jam with some gin. It was good!
I had goat-apricot tagine just this past weekend, it was excellent. As are chocolate oranges, and they give a nice heft to Christmas stockings. I was never entirely convinced of the merits of gin outside of gimlets but strong herbal flavors generally taste slightly... moldy? to me. Plum jam with gin sounds just right though.
Any excuse to list facts about myself, apparently...
I would certainly eat a goat-apricot tagine.
The place I had it was in central Jersey so you have to do the scary kind of driving to get to it.
Or go to the Middle East and do the really scary kind of driving.
Which I would, because tagines are the great.
So great they defy degrees of comparison.
What about the ancient Egyptian tagines?
23: And the "I'm drinking at least one bottle of wine a night to dissolve the day off of me". Right, sure you are. And all those horrible, horrible sounding flavoured vodka alcopops as well. lYou're a) relatively young b) skinny c) female d) American, none of which contribute to high alcohol tolerance, and we're supposed to believe you're putting it away like Jeffrey Bernard? No.
yes tho.
pretty good! girl x is doing much, much better with tons of PT, fresh air (phoenix counts, surprisingly; better than a 24th-floor narnian apartment), new doctors, gabapentin, bullshit diet and more. I am trying it all also--she's stronger than me already in ways--even the bullshit low-fodmap diet. but my husband and girl y are in narnia and maybe I won't see them till christmas. and my in-laws get on my fucking nerves.
Glad to hear that. Your situation sounded so dire last time.
I honestly should probably feel more grateful and joyous and stuff. it's a huge slog, and a short trip to the east coast with girl y just reminded me of what a PITA girl x can be, by contrast, and how much I miss girl y, and also of how much I love seeing my actual family. so I'm...meh. but girl x seemed headed right for permanent disability and I feel she'll be OK now, so I'm not sure why I'm not more cheerful. I'm tired as fuck, really. my dad's 70th birthday is soon, I sort of want to go to SC for a long weekend, but I don't know if girl x can stand being left in the care of my tedious, sober, kind, devoted, superior sister and brother-in-law. they're hemulens from finn family moomintroll. I mean, its tiring to see my dad, too, but.
Yeah, no, it all sounds super tiring and stressful still. But still a major improvement from before.
Y THEY JUDGE ME ALL THE TIME? seriously, so judgey. I forgot to make my sister-in-law promise not to trash-talk my family to girl x on their nighttime walks, something she did last night again. it gives things a back-stabby feel and makes girl x sad. also, DON'T TALK SMACK ABOUT MY SISTER.
maybe there are other "phoenician" readers and I should meet up? I think it's pretty awesome/hilarious they call themselves phoenicians. why not, I suppose. I wonder if tyrian purple is the state color?
I don't know of any other Phoenician Unfoggedtarians (and agreed about the name). There probably are some, but maybe just lurkers.
It is because they are a maritime people.
1. Martini was originally more vermouth than gin, though I can't remember te actual ration if I ever knew it.
2. Stewed pears and chocolate sauce is the business.
3. As far as I can work out Iranian food is based on meat and fruit, and it's arguably the best food in the world.
4. Tagines are from North West Africa rather than the Middle East. Get thee to Casablanca, where I hear the gin joints are OK too.
***** YAY ALAMEIDA! YAY GIRL X!!!
221.4 is correct. I had some amazing Tajines when I lived in Morocco, back in my carnivorous days.
221.last. Yay indeed! Great to hear the news about girl x.
Yay alameida and offspring! Also icecream and bourbon is indeed the shit.
