...that I assumed it wasn't the worst of the grifters.
They back the coup that put Pinochet into power.
You aren't kidding. (Back when it was part of a larger conglomerate.) Wow.
As someone who recently got out of the big evil for-profit higher ed game, I'm not entirely surprised.
My sense is that to an organisation with 40,000 students on 130 campuses, $153M ought to be, if not chump change, easily findable. Am I wrong about the economics of these sorts of outfit, or do we get the popcorn on and wait for the report?
I was kidding. I had no idea the two ITTs were related. I knew about the ITT involvement in the coup because of my detailed study of Latin American history my uncle gave me a set of Doonesbury books from the early 70s.
Students now enrolled at the company's technical schools will be able to cancel any federal student debt they incurred for their education if they decide against transferring their credits elsewhere
Way to pervert incentives, G-men!
If you look at the link I put up yesterday about this, you'll see how remarkably petulant they are about this. It's almost as if they expect people to say, "In that case, forget about the $153 million. Our freedom demands it."
5: I don't think it is so much "decide again" but rather "realize their credits are not transferable."
Ok then, that makes it all better.
7: For the record, you wrote:
Apparently, not shoveling money to private colleges is unconstitutional.
which perpetuates an annoying persistent confusion about the difference between private colleges and for-profit colleges. Not that I think anyone here is confused, but my brother certainly is.
I'm pretty embarrassed on your behalf, son.
I'm only 457 XP away from getting to level 23 in Pokemon Go. Maybe I'll get the power to edit when I level up.
I think you get the power of grayskull.
This is one area where I'm concerned about Clinton*. Smacking down the for-profit college grifters has been one of the finer things that Obama has been doing during his second term. Given the Clinton's connections to that world, I'm worried that the trend won't continue.
*Yes, of course I'm going to vote for her & etc.
Crazy things are happening all over higher ed.
18: She does in fact talk pretty tough on the subject. Not only more transparency and enforcement, which would be gimmes, but it also backs strengthening the gainful employment rule, and the new idea of "risk sharing" (colleges share some burden of defaulted loans), Of course if you google most of the hits are about the money she and Bill have received from them.
The statement they released is fucking incredible.
We believe the government's action was inappropriate and unconstitutional, however, with the ITT Technical Institutes ceasing operations, it will now likely rest on other parties to understand these reprehensible actions and to take action to attempt to prevent this from happening again."
Remarkably, no single individual signed his name to this vigorous defense of the right to receive federal money without federal intervention. That's how you know that even they know they're scammers. Hell, I'd have more respect for them if they just released a statement saying "well, we and our shareholders had a great run at the expense of taxpayers and students, but it seems like regulators finally wised up. Good game, guys, and see you in the subprime consumer lending business!"
To the OP, I believe when schools actually shut down students get their loans officially forgiven, so that's a good outcome (as opposed to the school remaining in some kind of studentless limbo for years).
I enjoyed the "take action to prevent this from happening again." When I heard the news, my first thought was "This is working way faster than I figured it would."
How about Devry? Aren't they the other big legacy for-profit?
Devry is still accredited. By the same body that accredits my alma mater, which is worrying.
I guess ITT was still accredited also, but the accrediting body was actively trying to get rid of it.
So, what are the options for people who want a high-quality vocational education? Have the shady for-profits squeezed all the good guys out of the game?
They're out there. The good ones are super competitive to get in to. My colleague's kid recently got into one in Oklahoma City, I think, that is really competitive and everyone gets internships (there's a better word) and their job placement rate is high.
Maybe I don't know about them because they don't advertise on daytime TV.
Usually, when a funding body demands increased collateral, it's a sign that they don't think the funded organisation is financially secure, at best. If this outfit was looking for an excuse to cease trading without going through the insolvency process, they may have found one.
27: Isn't it just the local community college?
If the government outlaws guaranteed loans to grifters, only outlaw grifters will have guaranteed loans.
Didn't DeVry go online-only?
I dunno. I'd be curious to understand the evolution of the industry. I think it's clear that, 30-40 years ago, ITT & DeVry were teaching people marketable skills at reasonable prices. Somewhere along the line, they realized that Federal loans were a more reliable route to profits, and they adjusted their business model to straight-up grifting.
But was there a change in the student base*, was there a material change in Federal loan guidelines that they could exploit, or was it simply that rampant, exogenous inflation in post-HS education costs created the opportunity?
*I'm thinking along the lines of: in the '70s a DeVry truck driving degree/license/whatever led you to a profitable career, and you could easily pay back school, even if the tuition was a bit inflated for what you were actually getting; but by 2000, the sorts of jobs those degrees prepared you for no longer paid enough.
Santa Monica CC used to have one of the best automotive repair programs in the country, made possible through expensive equipment donations from the car industry. Then with budget cuts, they cut the program, and couldn't afford to maintain the equipment. It's all been thrown out.
Also, my mother's neighbor's daughter, who is about my age, is a Jaguar mechanic and she learned her skills at a Portland community college. As I understand it she got very good training in a pretty lucrative career for a very reasonable tuition.
As I understand it she got very good training in a pretty lucrative career for a very reasonable tuition.
Outrageous. It sounds like Portland Community College's business model is ripe for some disruptive innovation. Someone call Peter Thiel.
My niece (Oberlin graduate) went to this school to learn to be a motorcycle mechanic. http://daytona.wyotech.edu/ She got her parents to pay the tuition because they were so desperate for her to have some kind of steady paid employment. I guess the school was fine, and she was able to get a job, but she hated it, because of the people she had to work with. So she recommitted to her art and is back to living La Vie Boheme.
We spent the weekend a few weeks ago with a young couple, the man of which is a union sprinklerfitter. They're looking for people nationwide.
I am large, I contain multitudes.
My cousin's wife is a union electrician. There was some kind of training program through the hiring hall, which was super hard to get into (long waiting list, etc) and then some kind of other waiting something you had to go through. And the training sounded for real hard. But having jumped through those hurdles apparently you get guaranteed work, clear 100k annually and only have to 4 days a week, normal hours on those days. Seems pretty rad, says harried paper pushing loser professional me who is now on day 3 of under 3h sleep/night.
Electrician father/uncle/whatever.
If anyone's looking for vocational education in sexy nursing assistance, apparently my neighborhood is the place to go.
An acquaintance of mine worked briefly in construction, mainly on crappy apartment complexes and flimsy mcmansions in Southern California. He definitely thought that the electricians were the most professional people on the job. As he put it, "You can get away with half-assing a lot of things, but not the electricity".
I'd prefer the plumbing to be full-assed also.
For both literal and metaphorical asses.
Somewhere along the line, they realized that Federal loans were a more reliable route to profits, and they adjusted their business model to straight-up grifting.
There's a pilot program to allow students to use federal student loans to attend software engineering bootcamps. They have to partner with an accredited higher ed institution and are monitored by a third-party, but I do worry about this.
43
Everything about that is perfect.
"how about a picture of a nurse?"
"I got this one off the internet"
"Looks fine, run with it."
Also, "beware of free classes". If you're going to get scammed into worthless classes, at least make sure you're paying a lot for them.
It took me a second to see what was weird about that. I say if you're gonna be a nursing assistant, why not be a sexy nursing assisitant.
I've just never seen a real nurse uniform with so much red trim.
I don't know, a lot of the electrical in my house was pretty half assed until we paid someone to fix it, I think the previous owners did a lot of DIY stuff and found some configuration that worked even if it wasn't strictly legal or safe.
"It hasn't burned the house down yet" is not a very good proxy for an effective electrical system.
There was some kind of training program through the hiring hall, which was super hard to get into
I think this is a problem. A lot of training ends up being run by the trades themselves, rather than public institutions. Which, I guess that's nice for the trades, but then they get to limit the number of people qualified to do the work, which is problematic from an equal opportunity perspective and from an I-don't-want-to-be-price-gouged-by-my-plumber perspective. It also means that they are missing out on education subsidies available to college-bound folks.
It did (lightly) electrocute a kid once. But the previous owners didn't have kids so they couldn't run that test, burning down or not was the only thing they could measure.
Actually got me once too. You'd think if the light switch is off it's ok to touch the base of the lamp but no... neutral, hot, whatever, they're both wires, what's the difference.
I visited an impoverished neighborhood last week where everybody steals electricity by tapping into the distribution cable with whatever half-assed piece of wire they can find, propping up the wires with sticks instead of poles, and every time the electric company comes by to cut their lines, they are right back up the next day. I would actually characterize it as "really fucking dangerous."
43 Leads to nowhere in particular (some google log on page for user content but nothing is there).
It's a picture of a banner for a training program to teach nursing assistants where the included picture is clearly a woman in a "sexy nurse" costume.
43 Leads to nowhere in particular (some google log on page for user content but nothing is there).
I can't see it either. Maybe its blocked outside of the United States.
To be clear, it's not a particularly racy picture. Just very obviously not a real nurse uniform.
I can't see it inside the United States either. Do I have to sign up for Google Plus or Google Wave or Google Buzz?
Dammit, I was promised a sexy nurse picture.
Sorry folks. Really not that exciting but here's a different link.
The construction votech program at my county's public technical high school leads to well paying, career type jobs out of high school. However, the school require letters of reference from industry members for ninth graders, so the program is effectively limited to sons of construction workers. Maybe a daughter could apply, but last I heard it was 100% male.
Similarly, the "alumni brat preference" for apprenticeships in most blue collar union-connected training programs is much stronger than at any Ivy League school. Which is why an African-American on the Penn campus is more likely to be a professor than an electrician or a bricklayer.
I used to substitute teach at a vocational high school. A lot of white people. And the girl in the diesel repair program had to put up with all sorts of bullshit.
64 Thanks all the same. I was somehow expecting an Alfred the Great meme when I saw the link.
I'm sure Tigre will be along with one soon enough.
69 cracked me up.
I can't get the meme generator to work on my Android phone and I'm not going to risk using it at work. Certainly not with what I had in mind.
Alfred wants his dignity back.
64 link totally captures my idea of a professional training centre.
everyone gets internships (there's a better word)
Apprenticeships. (Not the TV kind.)
Apprenticeships.
Really? Like you get paid, or at least board and lodging so you're parents don't have to support you as they do in most internships?
|| So I'm thinking of switching my electricity generator (as in, the company generating my power) and I'd like to go green on this. I'm noticing that many of the options advertise that their power is mostly or entirely produced within my state. Is there any real advantage to buying such power? E.g., if I'm getting it from a national green company am I marginally encouraging longer-distance transmission that induces(?) power loss, or does it not really matter because such power losses are negligible and PJM and the other interchanges are going to be there no matter what? Is there any advantage over 1) good feelings when I pass local wind turbines and 2) not having to pay attention to local energy/environmental conditions in a much larger area? Note that locally produced green energy is significantly more expensive, although not untenably so. |>
77: No advantages beyond those two that I can see. Line losses from long-distance transmission aren't negligible but they're still pretty small, but that doesn't even really matter to you because it's not like buying from an out-of-state power producer means the literal electrons you use are traveling that distance. It's really just a matter of who ends up with your money. And yes, PJM manages the grid so that everything works as efficiently as possible regardless of who's buying power from whom.
Thanks (and for the heads up in the other thread, too). Thinking of it as where I'm money is actually very useful for me--I mean, I *know* that at some level the physics largely works out so it doesn't matter, but it's helpful to be reminded that it's mostly economic chicanery.* if I can assume that green energy production is largely ethnical** then it just becomes a question of how much I'd be willing to subsidize the local green power industry. Which is a lot, since having a clear replacement for coal/fracking jobs should have important statewide political consequences. I just need to figure out at what dollar level I'd be willing to support it.
* I suppose this would be different if production by intermittent non-baseline means becomes a large percentage of the total, but that's not a concern now.
** Although not necessarily: I dunno if hydro still counts as green but that has issues both in regard to how it affects local environments as well as Native peoples; a lot of solar cell production occurs in countries (well, China) with weak regulations, possibly leading to externalities on again the local environment and workers.
37:there's a joke here about Zen, art, and motorcycle maintenance, but it eludes me right now.
if I can assume that green energy production is largely ethnical** then it just becomes a question of how much I'd be willing to subsidize the local green power industry.
Right, this is the real question you're facing.
I suppose this would be different if production by intermittent non-baseline means becomes a large percentage of the total, but that's not a concern now.
Yeah, this is starting to be the case in some parts of Alaska with small "islanded" grids. The main North American grid is big enough to absorb all the intermittent power easily and will be for a long time.
I dunno if hydro still counts as green but that has issues both in regard to how it affects local environments as well as Native peoples
We certainly consider it green up here, but yeah, there's a lot of disagreement on that point nationally. I think it really comes down to how you weight different environmental (and other) values.
Another tradeoff is the effect of wind farms on birds, although the permitting process has improved a lot from the early ones where this was a big problem and it's much less of an issue with newer ones.
But in your specific situation, I don't think you're going to have a lot of those tradeoffs to make.
Giant spinning blade on huge towers. If evolution can't work around that, they're going extinct regardless.
The specific one I was looking at was >95% wind and the remainder small solar farm. I suppose I should check if any major migratory flightways that endangered species might use go through the windy mountainous zones to the east, but otherwise I mostly agree with 84.
It looks like there is a branch of the Atlantic flyway that cuts across PA, but like I said above with modern permitting requirements it's unlikely a wind farm that interfered with it would be approved.
