Re: Widespread Recognition?

1

We got one of those emails warning about travel. But I'm guessing farmers in Iowa aren't likely to get them.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 9:54 AM
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Pence would not put Bannon on the NSC and he'd be more likely to listen to generals than Trump is. I think that translates to fewer people killed under Pence, but with Republicans you just never know.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 9:55 AM
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Probably more women die in childbirth under Pence. But that's definitely the devil we know, and it's a problem with well-established channels to fight.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 9:57 AM
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I mean, Jammies' extended family are conservatives in the oil industry. They must be...exasperated? At least aware that Trump is making their travel more difficult?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 9:58 AM
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I wonder about this. Certainly I know that most people don't have the terrible habits I do about obsessively refreshing social media, but even my relatively-casual Facebook friends seem to have noticed, plus above-the-fold coverage in the newspaper two days running.

And yeah, at work we had one mass email on Friday and another one throwing a lot of money at the problem today.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 10:02 AM
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Last night my mom made a baby and bathwater argument about Trump and I've been coming up with scathing rejoinders since I woke up this morning. I'm probably going to have to make some hurt-feeling comments to her soon. Although it turns out that, in spite of my last politics argument ('if you cared about your daughter more than unborn babies you'd at least not vote for the Conservatives'), she voted for the wrong people. She just didn't talk about politics and told my siblings not to tell me because I'd be upset (they told me, I was, she doesn't know I know).

I haven't wanted to talk to her in weeks because of this issue. And if she asks why I don't go to church anymore I'll probably explode. If people want insight to single-issue abortion voters, I got some.

Anyway, I'm probably moving back home in a couple months when my visa runs out, if not before when NAFTA gets cancelled. So that should be fun.


Posted by: hydrobatidae | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 10:05 AM
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Is it safe for a green card holder from one of the designated countries to fly to the US? I still haven't found out one way or the other and it looks like the answer is no. Also still trying to hook up my cow-orker's father with some legal rep (any leads) in the PNW.* Otherwise he's stuck here for the foreseeable future.

*I almost burst out in tears when I told her I would see what I could find out.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 10:05 AM
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2 other than individual harms (which are significant and irreparable and I don't mean to minimize) whatever Pence would be inclined to do even if that's everything on his wishlist could be rolled back. Trump/Bannon are doing irreparable harm to American institutions and values. They must be stopped.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 10:08 AM
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I mean, Jammies' extended family are conservatives in the oil industry. They must be...exasperated?

You'd know better than me, but I would imagine they'd take the travel ban if it means no emissions/extraction regulation.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 10:11 AM
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9: Yes, but they'd assume they'd get that under Pence. I'm just talking about whether they'd notice that this is not business as usual yet.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 10:12 AM
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7

Supposedly it now doesn't cover green card holders, but I wouldn't place much faith on that. It sounds like it's coming down to the individual border control people, many of whom are refusing to honor the injunction. You might be ok flying into Portland or Seattle, because those places are pretty anti-Trump, and the likelihood of getting a fascist dick at border control is probably lower, but again, I'm not sure it's worth taking that gamble.


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 10:52 AM
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8 is super-correct. I'm genuinely baffled by people who think Pence might be worse. Under Pence, rank and file law enforcement doesn't tell US Senators to go piss up a rope.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 10:59 AM
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Last night my mom made a baby

Never before were hopes for a comment raised so high, nor dashed so quickly.


Posted by: Todd | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 11:00 AM
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13 speaks for me.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 11:03 AM
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11 He has an airline ticket to go in about 5 weeks. I asked my coworker to find out when the last date it's refundable on but I'm not optimistic either. I'd like to get him connected with some legal advice in the US in that region before then.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 11:07 AM
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Latest time bomb inserted by Trump (probably Pence would have too)- orders 2020 census to collect citizenship status, enabling a stated goal of Republicans to allocate House seats and EVs based on citizens not all residents. If the electorate won't vote for you, change the electorate.
(That's in addition to blue states governed by Repiblican legislatures trying to allocate EVs by district without making he same change in red states.)


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 11:14 AM
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to 7: Someone on Facebook mentioned that people who are in limbo should reroute so that they fly in to Boston, because the judicial order in Mass. is the most generous. Of course this all appears to be changing day by day, if not hour by hour.


Posted by: parodie | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 11:18 AM
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Barry - I'm checking with Eve for recommendations re: immigration firms in the PNW. You can email me at first name, first four letters of last name, at gmail.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 11:21 AM
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Barry i can connect you with an excellent & highly ethical im lawyer based in SF but can make referrals across US, neb can put us in touch via email.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 11:24 AM
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18 Awesome. Thanks.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 11:26 AM
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20 Great!


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 11:29 AM
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My email linked in 20. and here.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 11:30 AM
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22 So the milkmail's not real?


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 11:34 AM
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dq, I DM'd you at the other other place.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 11:45 AM
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Congressional Republicans have been conspicuous in their silence this weekend.

Rubicon has been crossed, the Party is Trump's now, and Republicans know if he goes down, he takes them with him. All of them.

In any case, the man's a monster, Bannon's worse, and he is still President while the process unfolds. He will not take it well.

Impeachment is very unlikely.

I don't think he will live out his term.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 12:31 PM
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Did everyone see the run down of comments by Fortune 500 (mostly tech of course) CEOs on the EO? I do not remember anything like this happening before. Definitely more opposition to a President's actions from the captains of industry than anything since the National Recovery Administration.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 2:11 PM
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26: Link? Last I heard they were all being craven cowards in public while apparently grousing in private. If that's changed it would be good news.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 2:13 PM
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For some reason I'm not finding the article I read earlier, at work. Here's much of the same info:
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-38794915


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 2:36 PM
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Thanks.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 2:41 PM
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The FT had something as well.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 2:51 PM
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There are demonstrations on a huge scale in most UK cities today.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 4:39 PM
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That's great! The next big one here is supposed to be for Tuesday. I don't know if I'll go, my health is so poorly these days. Sigh.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 5:17 PM
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33

On this topic, here are a few depressing articles from WaPo about what people in different news bubbles are seeing about this.

here

here


Posted by: Forza | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 6:11 PM
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34

So, to VTSOOBC, Frowner informs me that there is chatter that the next fascist order is something from Mike Pence's Xmas list that will stab GLBTQ communities in the back. Anyone hear similar?


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 6:18 PM
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35

What's the source of the chatter?


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 6:20 PM
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36

Also, I think we just need to write off the righty whities. We don't want their support, we don't need their support, and most importantly, we won't get their support. There's millions of people of color, queer people, women, immigrants, Muslims, Natives, etc. who aren't, or haven't been, particularly politically active. We should be doing everything we can to encourage and support more activism in those communities, and do what we can to make sure the DNC doesn't just fuck us all over again like they usually do.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 6:24 PM
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35: Metafilter, I think?


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 6:24 PM
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34 I'm pretty sure there isn't a LGBTQIA person in the country whose back is facing Trump or Pence. They're pretty much all looking them in the eye and staring them down.


Posted by: Wendy | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 6:25 PM
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34: I have heard rumors similar to the ones you've heard, but not with any clear sourcing, and not coming from people who I would expect to have direct views of inside baseball.

(Though it is, obviously, wholly consistent with the administration and current trends.)


Posted by: joyslinger | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 6:25 PM
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Ah, here we go, no idea of veracity:
https://trumpnewsdump.wordpress.com/2017/01/30/breaking-trumps-next-executive-order-will-go-after-gay-parents-with-adopted-kids/


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 6:26 PM
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Shoot, that other link is broke. Here's better one:
https://trumpnewsdump.wordpress.com/2017/01/30/latest-trump-to-attack-lgbt-rights-and-protections-with-new-executive-order/


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 6:27 PM
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40: I don't know that there's much they can do once adoptions are finalized. I expect allowing foster/adoptive agencies to discriminate against same-sex couples to be high on the agenda. (I'm trying pretty hard not to worry about any of this. I'm only the legal adoptive parent of one of the three children I'm raising, but our initial custody agreement was good enough for the pre-Obergefell era and should continue to be good enough, I hope. One way or another it's going to have to work out, because no one is going to take my children from me.)


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 6:40 PM
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upcoming executive order makes sexual orientation and identification a fireable offense for federal employees and contractors

I guess this means eliminate antidiscrimination protections, but I'm amused by its poor wording. "What? You have a sexual orientation? You sicko, you're fired!"


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 6:59 PM
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This has important survival information:

https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/what-things-going-wrong-can-look-like-400f84a0cc3a#.fpex5zzd3


Posted by: roger the cabin boy | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 8:58 PM
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Also, I think we just need to write off the righty whities. We don't want their support, we don't need their support, and most importantly, we won't get their support.

Yes and no. See, this analysis, for example.

Despite my optimism going into Election Day, in my gut, I knew this could happen. As many folks have heard me say over the last few years, while I am a big believer -- and still am -- that demographic trends work in the Democratic Party's favor, all of this hinges on the Democratic candidate maintaining a reasonable floor with white voters. ...

President Obama had some reach with these voters, or at least enough for us to win. In 2008, we knew we had to hit 40 [percent] with whites, in 2012, we needed to get close to it.

...

*And just to drive home the point of Florida's competitiveness -- when you go back to 1992, the year where Florida became a true battleground state, there have been more than 50 million votes cast for President, and Republicans and Democrats are separated by 12,000 votes. No, that isn't a typo -- 12,000 votes, or right at 0.02

...

And again, this isn't just a Florida deal -- what happened here isn't isolated. But I will make this one point -- one I've made a lot over the last few years: if Democrats in Florida can win around 40% of the white vote -- which is less than what Obama won in 2008, they will win almost every statewide race going forward. Demographics can be destiny -- but it isn't automatically.

Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 9:29 PM
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The GLBTQ thing was from Lambda Legal, and they described it as "far reaching" and likely to involve the right to discriminate for "religious" reasons, the right to deny adoption to GLBTQ parents and the removal of the protections on federal contractors. Spicer apparently said nothing much when asked today - they don't want to get "too far ahead" of whatever madness they have up next. What does that mean? I have no idea. But Lambda Legal thought it was good enough info to be worried.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 10:43 PM
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NYT now says the WH says no changes to that Obama EO.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 11:02 PM
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48

Which Obama EO?


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 01-30-17 11:49 PM
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The GLBTQ one.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 01-31-17 12:11 AM
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The GLBTQ one.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 01-31-17 12:11 AM
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It sounds like someone was writing an anti-LGBT EO, but that for whatever reason Trump didn't go for it (either because he disagrees or because enough internal pushback got mobilized like with the torture EO). That's why people are leaking this stuff to the press, so the cabinet will know about it.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in." (9) | Link to this comment | 01-31-17 4:16 AM
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What I expect is that they didn't want more big protests, so either they'll drop one at a later point in the new cycle or they figure they'll get it all taken care of when they pass the religious freedom act. Don't think that this is any kind of real respite, here - the base hates us and would Pence would put us all in reeducation camps in a heartbeat.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 01-31-17 5:43 AM
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Yes. Trump always could improve his polls by shutting up for a while.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-31-17 6:20 AM
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Also, could just be waiting for Mini-Scalia to get on the court.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-31-17 6:24 AM
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Is he capable of shutting up, even for a while?

[UK petition to withdraw state visit invitation now closing on 1,690,000 and still rolling - roughly 1 in 37 of the population, including children and Tories.]


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 01-31-17 8:48 AM
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57 Wait until it gets 17,410,743, then hack the site and change the wording for a second go at Remain.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 01-31-17 9:47 AM
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OT: Heh.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-31-17 2:22 PM
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I guess that was on topic. Sorry. I'm not used to that.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-31-17 2:26 PM
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I'm tempted to email a link to the story in 59 along with "Ha! Fuck you!" to the offices of top republicans. But I suppose if I'm going to get my name put on some sort of watch list, it should be for some more productive form of activism.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 01-31-17 2:27 PM
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The invisibility/invincibility of the older white woman!


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 01-31-17 2:33 PM
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One way or another it's going to have to work out, because no one is going to take my children from me.

You know we'll help you pay for lawyers, harass whatever officials need harassing, and chain ourselves in front of your front door if necessary, right?


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 01-31-17 4:26 PM
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Re the OP - we may be giving too much credit to the majority of citizens if we imagine that they are capable of recognising their own ass.


Posted by: One of Many | Link to this comment | 01-31-17 11:53 PM
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64 Fuck


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 02- 1-17 12:49 AM
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64: Horrible that the numbers should be anywhere close, but the methodology of that poll sounds like total shite to me.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 02- 1-17 3:31 PM
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64 &c.: Mildly discouraging, but you really can't overthink it.

A. As 66 (roughly) says, polling gets all sorts of results, depending on phrasing. One 49-41 result doesn't tell you much either way.

B. We're in the streets to grow the one number and reduce the other. We know that the ham-handed nature of the order will help us do this (although fuck that guy with the BS story about his dead mother).

C. To a significant extent, we're in the streets to stand up for righteousness whether popular or not. We hope to sway every battle our way, but it's essential to mark the right side every time.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 02- 1-17 4:55 PM
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