Re: Ratio

1

I think it's largely not about percentages but about norms -- what kinds of being an asshole will non-assholes push back about, and what kinds will the non-assholes think quietly "I wouldn't have done it that way, but there's nothing to be done about it." How that works is going to depend on the specific situation, of course.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 6:57 AM
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2

Right. There's no universal ass with a Platonic hole.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 7:04 AM
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3

There's also a bit of prisoner's dilemma to it. You don't want to be the only not-asshole in certain situations.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 7:07 AM
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4

It would be better if nobody had cyanide landmines in their front yard, but if everybody gets them, you have to also or your yard will be overrun in dog urine.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 7:10 AM
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5

There's that all too large percentage of go along to get along people.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 7:13 AM
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6

That's what the Germans say.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 7:14 AM
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7

They would know.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 7:20 AM
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8

Along the lines of the insight behind the parable of the polygons, what percentage of assholes does it take to make a large community shitty?

I would imagine Valve could give you a precise number for this based on DotA data.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 7:30 AM
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9

This new scientific paper could probably shove some underpinnings under there:

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2017/03/harvard-scientists-help-develop-algorithm-that-predicts-social-cooperation/

haven't really taken it to the woodshed yet, but the official Malcolm Gladwell Gee-Whiz Airport Talking Point is that effective cooperation is most likely in a scalefree network with a high percentage of bilateral links - like a federation of more tightly-integrated clusters. either hierarchy or anarchy does worse.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 7:31 AM
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10

DotA data

Department of the Assholes?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 7:32 AM
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11

I don't know if "social cooperation" is necessary for the kinds of affronts in the OP. Not dragging a guy off the airplane roughly enough to draw blood is a pretty low bar.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 7:39 AM
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12

Huh, it turns out that I knew what DotA was without knowing what it stood for. I only ever hear it referred to by the acronym.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 7:41 AM
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13

30%. (In response to Ogged's question).


Posted by: Just Plain Jane | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 7:52 AM
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14

It's also disproportionately a tone set by authority figures. If there's a mess on your watch and you're called on to explain yourself, will you be viewed as aberrant and suspect if you did the compassionate thing? or will you be viewed as aberrant and suspect if you do the automaton-asshole thing? Command-chains get set up to perpetuate the tone set by the people at the top, and to squash the contrary tone.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 8:05 AM
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effective cooperation is most likely in a scalefree network with a high percentage of bilateral links - like a federation of more tightly-integrated clusters.

That's what Mastodon/GNUSocial seems to be going for, with microblogging on top of a set of federated instances, rather than one big instance like Twitter. So far, keeping out assholes/nazis continues as a major community goal, but that may break down as scale increases.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 8:06 AM
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haven't really taken it to the woodshed yet, but the official Malcolm Gladwell Gee-Whiz Airport Talking Point is that effective cooperation is most likely in a scalefree network with a high percentage of bilateral links - like a federation of more tightly-integrated clusters. either hierarchy or anarchy does worse.

Shit, does that mean we have to join bowling leagues or something?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 8:41 AM
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17

14 is exactly right. The fish rots from the head downwards and all that. This is one of the things that makes the way in which American pop culture grovels to Randian sociopaths so worrying. If Peter Thiel is a role model, or, worse yet, the president whose name for a moment escapes me


Posted by: NW | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 8:43 AM
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the official Malcolm Gladwell Gee-Whiz Airport Talking Point is that effective cooperation is most likely in a scalefree network with a high percentage of bilateral links

I though that scale-free networks were all the rage 10 years ago. Are they making a comeback, sort of like fashion or music?


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 8:46 AM
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19

My colleagues are fighting sufficiently that I'm going to miss lunch.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 9:24 AM
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20

People have varying levels of commitment to various methodological orthodoxies, which is functionally hard to distinguish from assholeness when I need to eat.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 9:26 AM
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21

I guess I could get a cold sandwich, but not time for chicken tenders.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 9:28 AM
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22

20: Bayesians vs frequentists?


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 9:31 AM
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23

$ vs. methodological orthodoxies.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 9:33 AM
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24

I've done Bayesian stuff, but I've never worked with somebody who self-identifies as Bayesian.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 9:34 AM
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25

I've heard legends about fanatical Bayesians who are assholes to anybody who doesn't agree that it's the One True Way, but I've never actually seen one.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 9:44 AM
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26

So, if you saw someone who appeared to be acting like that, you wouldn't leap to the conclusion that it was characteristic of Bayesians?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 10:00 AM
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27

People right out of graduate school are often insufferable regardless of how they've been trained. You need to wait until the edges get ground down.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 10:04 AM
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28

Or maybe it's just epidemiologists.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 10:11 AM
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29

The ultima ratio of airlines.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 10:31 AM
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30

26 is good.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 10:40 AM
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31

I totally missed 26, probably because I was thinking of epidemiology.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 10:45 AM
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32

There are studies in smaller groups (i.e. workplaces/schools) and the answer is a very small number. Roughly, the headlines to the articles read "one bad apple can spoil" the workplace.

I suspect there are studies in larger groups as well, and, the internet provides yet another test case.

In the description of the United incident/school lunch reports, though, I wonder what role spread of information plays. Knowledge of the bad apple (when there is only one) used to be pretty limited. But now, the stories of the bad apples spread like wildfire, and we know of their existence. Good, in some senses, because we are ware of injustice everywhere. But, bad if it accelerates and justifies a disintegration of community decency on the grounds that everyone needs to protect themselves from even the very rare bad apple.


Posted by: bj | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 10:51 AM
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I just think we're in the middle of a worldwide conservative shift, either because en masse we are due to undergo such shifts at regular intervals, or because we are having a massive backlash against relatively rapid change. Sadly, this shift will likely last another 20-30 years.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 04-11-17 10:54 AM
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34

Vaguely related: I am hugely enjoying Bruce de Mesquita "The Dictator's Handbook".


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 04-14-17 5:24 AM
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35

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Posted by: Lederhosen | Link to this comment | 08-11-17 1:16 PM
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