It got mentioned, perhaps obliquely, in the lead thread.
1: Obliquely indeed, and it has now cropped up in relation to US leaking of British intelligence in "When I...". I think neither had happened at time of writing.
OP last: no I wasn't. The Anglosphere coverage I've seen has been pretty much blanket, and would be completely so were it not for the neverending Trump shitshow.
Or 34 refugees - mostly small children - drowning off the coast of Libya. I don't even know how to begin with that one.
Why do you want to drown such a specific number of people?
I think that comments 35 and 38 in the lead thread really said all that could be usefully said in a forum like this. It's not like anybody here is toying with the idea of joining Da'esh but might be talked out of it by peer pressure.
Anyway, that's why I try to stay away from threads about horrors.
Tangentially, though, I would be interested in any thoughts from the US as to why the American security establishment has apparently decided that it's a good idea to leak confidential information from allied agencies to the press. This wasn't Trump, this was the supposed professionals.
4: Well, yes. I'm thinking more of the social/emotional reaction, and lack of it. ISTR a much stronger reaction to Paris, for instance. Obviously that was much bigger and longer, but it also happened a lot of bad news ago.
I preferred Blowing Up Manchester's earlier work. The 90s, man.
Seriously, it's horrible but I'm not getting worked up about it and I have no intention of encouraging anyone else to.
A fish rots from the head down, if you turn it so that the head is at the top.
OP 2: I too have wanted to talk about Venezuela, and Burma, and the Philippines, but don't know enough even to write a substantive OP. Lack of knowledge for me, not horror, because my soul is a shriveled husk.
6: because they want to get the US media on their side, and they don't really take other countries' requests very seriously.
Tangential to 11, it's interesting that May apparently intends to use this to censor the internet more. Not to say that's necessarily bad CT policy, but I'd hate to see Little England going full V for Vendetta.
Isn't that guy trying to restore militant Catholicism to England?
Why would it be professionals? If the information reached the White House, then it could have been some low-level staffer.
Also we don't actually know exactly where the leaks came from. The US has, to its credit, been very good at setting up joint CT information-sharing cells, "fusion centers", since 2001, that involve local and state police, FBI, various intelligence agencies and even some private sector involvement. But the downside of that is that there are a lot of players who could leak this sort of thing. I don't know who GMP will have passed it to in the first place - possibly an FBI liaison at the embassy in London - but from there it will have gone to FBI HQ, to the various fusion centres and thence to their member organisations, to CIA, probably to the Senate Intelligence Committee... lots of possible leaks.
15: Per the link in 11, similar things happened after the London bombings.
17: yes, he was, in furtherance of a fatwa issued by theocratic terrorism supporter Pope Sixtus V.
There was no Sixtus VI, because the world doesn't exist solely for my entertainment.
A friend of mine on FB lost someone she knows in the attack. A teenage girl who had just gone to celebrate life and love and youth and all that sappy shit. I don't think it's an accident that they targeted a concert that would be heavily attended by teenage girls. Ditto the Bataclan attack on a place with a high concentration of young people enjoying life. And the Orlando shooting. They are anti-joy. They hate the idea of people being happy. There are dozens of places where a high concentration of people could lead to huge casualties if that's all they wanted. But it's not. They hate joy specifically and target people who are having fun. Happiness without submission to their insane ideology is a slap in the face to everything they believe in. Simply being happy is a giant fuck you to them.
6. No substantive idea, the only people I know (not well) who are in US intelligence are upstanding, and are basically horrified by most of what I see as misbehavior from their agencies.
That said, there's long-standing tension between the FBI's NY office (basically Giuliani goons) and DC. Speculating wildly, any terrorism headline in US papers draws attention to an external enemy and displaces investigation news. DC cooperates and is usually responsible, NY doesn't care is one cynical possibility. Basically, the broken parts of intelligence have a deep crisis right now and are reacting to very short-term threats to their interests. Complete speculation on my part.
Bombing kids is horrible, I have a hard time understanding how people can become so blind and hateful. The thinking part of me can read about the lives of maladjusted second-generation immigrants who became terrorists and try thinking about ways to minimize the number of times that story can happen again. Maybe another month, not up to thinking about that now.
19. Fawkes was of course a fall guy, probably not too bright and almost certainly regarded by the leaders of the plot as disposal. Mohammed Atta to Robert Catesby's Bin Laden.
22: The bomber's sister, who sounds like a real charmer, told the WSJ: "I think he saw children -- Muslim children -- dying everywhere and wanted revenge. He saw the explosives America drops on children in Syria and he wanted revenge. Whether he got that is between him and God."
They probably figured they didn't need somebody too bright when you could just walk in off the street and rent storage space right below parliament without anybody having a look at what you are putting in there.
Funny to find this post as I just came here precisely to see if anyone was talking about wtf is going on with the leaks. It has been frustrating that none of the stories I've seen about them give any indication of where they might be coming from, or why.
I'm ashamed to say that my primary response to the news of the attack has been to try to ignore it. I think that's basically because I feel like we all know by now how this goes: some idiot shitheel kid(s) are influenced by lunatic cultists into doing something pointlessly awful; much public/media outrage is directed toward uninvolved wrong people; asshole politicians take advantage of situation for their own purposes at the expense of the uninvolved wrong people. Asshole politicians and lunatic cultists are the only parties who benefit, and it feels like caring about the attack is somehow equivalent to contributing to the public/media outrage (which I know isn't true) which just serves to increase the benefit to a.p.'s and l.c.'s. I'm just sick of seeing the same wrong conversation about these things feed the same counterproductive feedback loop.
Second 27.2, though ignoring it comes naturally. I'm not ashamed* of that because I think terrorism essentially is background noise and not particularly worth normal people's attention, mostly because of 27 last.
*Though I'll entertain arguments that I should be.
Further to the leaks, assuming that US leaking allied intellegence is fairly routine, the current British reaction is indeed a marker of interesting times and changed perspectives. In 2005, US leaks were a cost of doing business, today a major issue, because the Atlantic alliance isn't so inevitable anymore. Brexit really was extraordinarily ill-timed.
On the leaks I just figure that the NYPD, which loves showing it is in the know, did it. The NY FBI would be likely too.
And yet no one has attacked a Trump-branded property. I figured that would happen in the first eight weeks. Maybe they aren't joyful places. Then again, airplanes aren't either.
I meant to say also that, stopped clocks and all, I do like that Trump called the perpetrators "losers." I liked it when the uncle of the Boston bombers did it, and I like it here too, because I think this is how these (or maybe most?) terrorist attacks should be understood: as pathetic attention-seeking tantrums by the biggest losers in society. If this were regularly the dominant narrative after these events instead of "we need to kill more brown people," maybe fewer losers could be convinced by lunatic cultists that blowing up random people will help with their alienation.
I figure the most likely reason for all the leaks is pure "lol who cares nothing matters" disillusionment among the intel people - might as well leak to your buddy at NBC why not? It'll be on the Russian ambassador's desk by Thursday anyway.
But I have another more paranoid theory. What line has the Trump admin & their congressional backers been pushing in response to all the Russia stuff? That the main problem is the leaks. But they haven't gotten much headway with that, mainly because the big problem with all the leaks has been political damage to themselves, and not any real damage to national security. But here's an instance where leaking is doing actual damage to national security. What if this is being done by some Trump admin political type in order to help push for an anti-leak campaign?
I'm not saying your theory is right, but I don't think it counts as paranoid in this climate.
Doesn't count as paranoid, but surely a bit sophisticated for this administration?
Anyway, Trump admin is now promising a full Justice Department investigation into the leakers to get to the bottom of this. So it's giving them cover whether they did it on purpose or not.
Trump is going to cleverly distract attention from the leaks by destroying NATO this afternoon.
There is a small group of Venezuelans protesting outside our building right now. I admire the willingness to sit in the hot sun with duct tape over your mouth, although there isn't actually jack shit anyone here can do about whatever is going on with the regime.
What can anyone do? I considered sending a post saying "Someone please explain what the fuck is happening in Venezuela".
Well then, allow me to mansplain: the Venezuelan proletariat seized the means of production a while back. Judging by the upper-class Venezuelans I know, the bourgeois totally had it coming.
But it hasn't gone so well and by now the "entrenched corrupt strongman" phase of the revolution has run well past its sell-by date. That, combined with low oil prices, has created an economic situation in which you can't buy toilet paper.
So, shit is fucked up and bullshit, and the current strongman isn't as strong as the last guy (who died of natural causes a few years back). The regime is clamping down but loosing its grip, and the whole thing is taking a long time to unfold and a lot of people are getting hurt.
OT bleg at the 40-comment mark:
In this probably thread-worthy article about filming nude scenes on a show where almost nobody but the male actors is a cis-straight male, Kathryn Hahn talks about feeling objectivized on a previous set, saying, "I remember there was a certain set of expectations on me as the lead. You know, sex! Chicken cutlets for boobs, spray tans, so many hair extensions, fake eyelashes, contoured makeup."
Chicken cutlets for boobs? What the what?
The birds and the bees, but only the one part of certain types of birds.
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/style-beauty/beauty/advice/g1556/best-cleavage-inserts-chicken-cutlets/
Here's some you can buy, JRoth.
Maybe the mental image of her body as a template of meat to overlay all the other stuff on?
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Tomorrow I will be the owner of a car for the first time in my life, a two-year-old Korean subcompact. So fucking middle class...
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Lower middle class. The middle class has Japanese cars, or at least something bigger than a subcompact.
I put my chicken cutlets on one boob at a time, just like any everybody else.
|| I never want to hear any complaints about Millennials and participation trophies ever again. |>
Of all the threads recently, this is the one to hijack?
I was thinking that, but it already had been, and we gave up conversation pretty early. Which I suppose isn't that surprising in a thread about us not talking about something. If someone wants to turn this into a hallowed space, it'd quickly become such.
49: Most of them have no activity and are no more appropriate. The one with the really long title is in the middle of a contentious argument.
Hyundai Accent? I've got one o' them. Its a speedy little thing.
The only damaging leak was the arsehole's name. That could have alerted a lot of people. The rest of it -- all the NYT stuff -- was embarrassing but not dangerous from a security point of view. Or so the smart people I know tell me.
How do you tell which of the people you know are the smart people? Asking for a friend.
Yep. A lot of hand-me-downs from rental cos, it seems. Although I also considered the Kia Soul.
39: So much any quasi-informed person knows, Spikesplainer! Insight! Details! Links! Bibliography! Alleviate my laziness!
Well, I can tell you that I was on a plane that got diverted to Caracas not long ago, and the airline made sure to top up on cheap fuel while we were there.
Would it be worse or better if Trump had shoved the prime minister of a country with more clout than poor old Montenegro?
Montenegro is populated by dark wizards. He couldn't have picked a more dangerous country to insult.
Hello, my name is Inigo Montenegro. You pushed my prime minister. Prepare to die.
Has anyone started an Anti-Fascist Committee for National Liberation in the U.S. yet? Asking for the cat.
Seriously though, I hope someone is going to run Pigasus for President again in 2020.
Dear Montenegro Secret Service,
When you read this I hope you will understand this was all in jest of course.
Please don't put a curse on me.
Montenegro just joined NATO. Russia strongly objected to this and thuggery was alleged. So, was DJT just relaying a message? It would be irresponsible not to speculate.
66:I don't think I could reliably identify the prime minister of Montenegro so I am absolutely certain that Trump couldn't.
I have been reliably identifying not-prime minister of Montenegro.
Once I finish, you can figure out +prime minister of Montenegro easily.
I could only identify Montenegro on a map because the surrounding countries are more recognisable (yes, Albania is totally more recognisable!) Also, the Montenegrin for Montenegro is unpronounceable to anglophones without a lot of practice. I conclude that it's a great place and Mr Đukanović should be given constitutional dispensation to take over from Trump when he is impeached.
"Tsirna Gora". With the first syllable rhyming with "burr" not with "sear".
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How despairing should I be that the body slamming guy won in Montana? I mean, I know that most of the votes had already been cast, but fuck.
"Republicans hit new low, Democrats lose anyway" might as well be what all of the major newspapers have as their permanent headline.
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We're slowly turning into a banana republic without the bananas. I don't know what you can do but keep trying anyway.
We should plant bananas. For tradition's sake.
There's some in the local conservatory.
73 is me too. The body-slamming thing just seemed so outrageous that I got false hopes.
There was that tweet last winter, "When they go low, we lower the bar."
The world is accelerating. Harden yourself. It will have to get worse before it can get better. The people who are willing to vote for Trump and people like him haven't felt any pain yet and won't until after it get much harder on people who wouldn't dream of it.
It's always spooky when moby gets serious.
I've said that before. I still think I'm right.
I'm distressed that body-slamming reporters is now a viable campaign tactic in the GOP playbook.
Maybe it will cause US journalists to finally abandon their ridiculous ideology of "objectivity" and "balance."
But almost certainly not.
Maybe they'll stop having presidential candidates as producers of their shows?
Let's not get bogged down in who body-slammed who. Views differ.
Yes. I suspect he and Flynn are going to prison or being pardoned by Trump.
Well, as one post-structuralist said to the Other: "Be meta, and if you can't be meta, be obfuscatory."
Private email servers bad! Private communications channels with Russia good!
part of not wanting to talk about the manchester attack is that it's hard not to immediately become maudlin when considering someone losing their eight-year-old daughter who was probably going to her first ever concert, and then when you tear up you wonder if you're just engaging in a kind of self-satisfied show of caring, and then you've gone meta. it's difficult to know what to say besides "this was unusually horrible."
"Amused " is definitely the wrong word but it is rather splendid that the two guys in Portland were called Taliesin Myrddin Namkai-Meche and Ricky John Best. What a combination. It's ok, lads, Valhalla doesn't have a dress code.
Someone said to me that Trump has been stealing the punchline in everything he does. So, there's no hearing where someone says to a witness "Isn't it true that...?" He just comes out and says "Sp, yeah, I fired the head of teh FBI because of the Rudssian investigation."
Why doesn't he just preemptively pardon Kushner in advance?
Why doesn't he just preemptively pardon Kushner in advance?
Good idea. Nixon was never charged with anything because Ford pardoned him first. Why change a winning strategy?
Taliesin went to my alma mater. His death has me thinking about all the times I engaged with clearly disturbed people on the bus and trolley. Over the 5 years I spent in Portland I had probably a dozen interactions with people who were obviously in need of mental health attention and seemed borderline violent (I tended to be on the bus late at night and in sketchy areas). I always managed to calm them down and had some interesting conversations, but looking back on it I'm a little surprised things never took a violent turn. I guess I was young enough and self confident enough that it didn't really occur to me that I might get hurt. I sought out interactions with homeless people because they tend to have interesting stories to tell, and if the interaction goes poorly it becomes an interesting story in itself. I guess I was naive enough that real danger didn't occur to me.
I don' know if the Portland stabber was mentally ill or just evil, but his actions have me thinking about the generally shit nature of the mental health system in the US. Also the fact that in the next few days the families of Namkai-Meche and Best will be receiving a slew of bills from the ambulance company and the hospital. Luckily their gofundme is doing really well, but fuck everything about this.
Also it's worth noting there was a third person who intervened and got stabbed for his troubles: Micah Fletcher, a 21 year old poet.
Fletcher as well. He's lucky to be alive - apparently it was a close thing.