Re: We Will Let One Live

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"Nick Hanauer" I remember that name from his TED talk.

I'm glad to see that he's still making the argument. The tone of that article feels like he's given up on the belief that he can convince people, and is just trying to state his position as strongly as possible.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 7:46 AM
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This seems very familiar. Good stuff.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 7:53 AM
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Many of my peers prefer to hide behind the enduring myth that today's crisis of economic inequality and insecurity is the result of forces unleashed by unstoppable trends in technology and globalization.

This is a particularly important point. The same argument could have been made about the previous Gilded Age, and it was bullshit then, too. Yet you'll see liberals (I'm looking at you, Saiselgy) arguing that the winner-take-all economy is a natural phenomenon rather than a political choice.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 8:40 AM
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Hanauer starts with a dubious premise: that rich folks want democracy to work in this country. Sure, Trump is a bit crude for some of Hanauer's elites, but he is pretty much what they have been working toward for decades.

The one-percenters don't want to empower regular folks; they want to disenfranchise them. Trump advances their agenda, and they know it.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 8:56 AM
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4: No, his only premise is that rich people want to preserve their pleasant, secure lifestyles.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 8:58 AM
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5: Well, there a few other premises too.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 9:00 AM
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1%'ers are a pretty big group and they aren't wealthy enough to insulate themselves from the world. Trump, Koch, Thiel, maybe Hanauer, Gates, Bezos, Newell, . . . might be. And even those guys vary in how much they want to insulate themselves and liv ein their own world (Gates, Bezos, and Newell who are all in Seattle, have a surprising desire to live pseudo-1% style lives while still being among the richest people in the world). For the 1%, though, Hanauer's argument matters. They don't fly in private jets, many send their kids to public schools, they live in neighborhoods and use the city parks, and go to libraries and watch fireworks shows, . . . .

I think Hanauer has a case to make for 1%'ers and isn't altogether unsuccessful in making it to the class of 1%'ers who have children.


Posted by: zb | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 9:07 AM
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Indeed, the left's maniacal focus on Trump confuses cause with effect. Yes, Trump is a manifestation of a serious civic sickness. But treating the symptom by removing Trump won't cure the disease, even if it temporarily makes us feel better. No, to heal the body politic we must confront the disease itself.

Contra this bizarre claim, "the left" seems like the only faction in America that understands this.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 9:17 AM
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Yet, when I make this case to my wealthy friends, even the progressive ones, the reaction is almost universal: You look down at your shoes, or start talking about "messaging" or "narrative"--or charter schools. When I urge you to focus your energy and resources on the kinds of direct action that can actually make a real difference to working people--like, for instance, a state or city minimum wage campaign--you roll your eyes, or prevaricate. You insist that the only way to fight Trumpism is to fight Trump. But you couldn't be more wrong. The only effective way to fight Trumpism is to address its cause by ensuring that the middle and working class do better.

How is he defining "progressive"? Because his "progressive" friends don't sound like any progressives I know.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 9:20 AM
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Exactly. You see the "Never Trump" Republicans wandering around acting like somehow Trump exists outside of the Republican Party, like a wart that some how drifted in from the air.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 9:20 AM
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9: Very wealthy progressives, obviously.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 9:29 AM
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5,6: Sure, yeah, he's trying to sell it in terms of self-interest, but in some ways, his argument reminds me of "What's the Matter With Kansas." People aren't as dumb as high-minded folks like Hanauer and Thomas Frank think. The Kansans and the one-percenters know what they want, and they make their political choices accordingly, even if we don't think it's good for them.

Hanauer likes democracy. Members of Sam Walton's family don't, and empirically, I think we have to acknowledge that they've got a solid record of successfully pursuing their own best interests.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 9:30 AM
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8: Yeah, I didn't want to nitpick an editorial I basically agreed with and he wasn't mainly pointing the finger at them, but blaming "the left" for Trump and the current situation is fucknuts. In no particular order, Fox News, the know-nothing base of the Republican party, the party establishment that was totally happy to pander to them until the minute Trump won the nomination, the Koch brothers, George Will, David Broder, David Brooks, Jill Stein, and Joe Lieberman are more to blame for the current situation than people who are maybe jumping the gun on impeachment a tiny bit.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 9:38 AM
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I read what he's writing as "Don't forget the torches and pitchforks. They're still out there." The Waltons may be doing well for themselves at the moment but he'd like to remind them about that.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 9:39 AM
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Right now, Republicans have been remarkable successful at making white people try to pitchfork anybody not white as opposed to any Walton.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 10:09 AM
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12
Hanauer likes democracy. Members of Sam Walton's family don't, and empirically, I think we have to acknowledge that they've got a solid record of successfully pursuing their own best interests.

What do Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, and for a non-tech example Steve Spielberg, think of democracy? I'm genuinely asking. I guess I could go do some research myself, but the point is, that's who the editorial seems to be aimed at. Filthy rich left-coasters who are socially liberal, want America to be the leader of the free world, and probably don't like Trump personally, but are generally apolitical or right-leaning or were until recently.

It is weird to publish an editorial ostensibly aimed at such a tiny audience in a more general-interest media outlet, agreed.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 10:21 AM
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I hope the intended audience is really the people expected to wield the pitchforks, reminding them of the option.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 10:25 AM
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Do people have enough gardening and farming experience anymore? Some pitchforks appear to be maximized for pitching hay, of all things. You need the kind with a few (three or four) tines that are relatively thick and not so far from straight. There are some that have a eight or more very thin tines, shaped like a scoop. If that's what you got, go with it. But it's suboptimal.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 10:34 AM
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Politico aims for an elite, DC/NY audience don't they? I seem to remember their print edition is DC only, though it's been almost 10 years since I've seen one.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 10:36 AM
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19: heh. That's a reminder that I'm an elitist. Politico is one of the free papers I grabbed the last time I was low on kindling for my grill. Fair enough, not exactly general-interest.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 10:40 AM
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A mob wielding staplers and vape pens isn't as intimidating, true.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 10:41 AM
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I hate walking past crowds of people vaping. I don't mind smokers as much, because that at least smells like smoke.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 10:42 AM
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18. Ordinary gardening forks would do at a pinch. Or lawn rakes.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 10:53 AM
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Who rakes lawns anymore? Once again, the conservative suburbanites are the most heavily armed.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 11:07 AM
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They mostly use leaf blowers now. They'll be able to blow our hipster regiment's vape smoke back at them and make our cheeks all flappy.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 11:09 AM
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How does an ordinary gardening fork differ from a pitch fork? Maybe it's what my dad called a potato fork?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 12:16 PM
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Designed to break soil, not just gather hay.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 12:16 PM
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Oh Moby. I love when you talk ag.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 12:24 PM
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18, 23: I have a nice pruning saw. Just give me 15 minutes alone with David Koch ...


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 12:36 PM
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I thought the article was subtly calling for some young disruptors to develop a guillotine-sharing app. They could name it bHeadr.


Posted by: Todd | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 12:38 PM
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Like Uber but for tumbrels.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 12:40 PM
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They could name it bHeadr.

You really don't need to decapitate many people to get attention.

Though, I suppose, if mobs just decapitated 4 or 5 rich people it's really unlikely that the rest would think, "what we need to do, as a response, is raise wages."


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 12:54 PM
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Like Uber but for tumbrels.

Tumbrelr.com.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 12:57 PM
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34

The French decapitated people for murder for centuries and never stopped murderers.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 1:27 PM
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34: To be fair, I doubt that the specific murderers they decapitated ever killed anyone again.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 1:54 PM
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34: I think only nobles got decapitated, until the Revolutionary leveling. So really less than a couple of centuries.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 2:00 PM
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I thought Moby wa from Nebraska. Hay forks - 3 or 4 tines. Manure fork - more than 4 tines. I spent a lot of my teenage years on the end of a manure fork in Ohio. The handle end.


Posted by: Out West | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 2:53 PM
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I was raised in town. The only time I ever worked around animals was building pig barns of the kind where the food came in on a auger and the shit came out via an automated system. Capital is displacing labor everywhere.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 2:56 PM
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Anyway, start looking for a good hay fork. They seem to be kind of hard to find anymore.


Posted by: Out West | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 3:10 PM
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It comes in bales now.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 3:13 PM
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Is that what those squarish things are.


Posted by: Out West | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 3:25 PM
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Farmers with good BMIs?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 3:36 PM
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Now I am going to have to go have another look.


Posted by: Out West | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 3:39 PM
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Bales are round these days, and no longer of a size to be human-tossable. My dad grew up walking behind the baler tossing the old-style bales onto a trailer. He was 5'5" and had 17" biceps 20 years after he last tossed a bale.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 3:57 PM
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Mmmm, Spherical hay.


Posted by: Opinionated Cow | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 4:15 PM
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46

Just for the record, since I am involved in the Ag industry, hay packages come in all sizes these days from small rectangular fifty-pound bales to large round and rectangular bales weighing a ton. Some hay is even harvested at high moisture and stored in silos or big plastic bags.
Now back to the regular programming...


Posted by: Out West | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 4:23 PM
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And they were still stacking loose hay in big stacks in the Big Hole in Montana twenty years ago but I haven't been back recently to see if anyone is still doing that.


Posted by: Out West | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 4:27 PM
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Butt, Montana.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 4:37 PM
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Butt is north of the Big Hole.


Posted by: Out West | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 4:37 PM
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OT: Sen. McCain has brain cancer.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 5:30 PM
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I feel bad for the guy, but it kind of makes you wonder about the rambling performance during the Comey hearing.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 5:49 PM
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They say you only use 10 percent of your brain. You can probably let cancer get a good bit of the remaining ninety.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 5:51 PM
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Cancer just means more brain cells you're not using.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 07-19-17 6:01 PM
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||

What is this "no confidence" resolution BS? That's our approach, not yours.

|>


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 07-20-17 2:26 AM
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Just for the record, since I am involved in the Ag industry, hay packages come in all sizes these days from small rectangular fifty-pound bales to large round and rectangular bales weighing a ton. Some hay is even harvested at high moisture and stored in silos or big plastic bags.

I also know this, but from playing Farming Simulator 2015.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 07-20-17 3:16 AM
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54: We learned it from you dad. We learned it from you.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 07-20-17 3:20 AM
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I can't tell if 55 is serious or not.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-20-17 5:51 AM
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I'm not going to google it because life needs moments of wonder.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-20-17 6:17 AM
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I haven't tried it, but I"m a big fan of Euro Truck Simulator 2.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 07-20-17 6:54 AM
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They still do that giant breadloaf thing in the Big Hole.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 07-20-17 7:01 AM
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As long as the hole is at least six inches deep and nobody else is around.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-20-17 7:03 AM
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I have one of these.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-20-17 7:15 AM
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57: Totes serious. It scratches much the same itch as as ETS 2, with a bit more variety. It's a fantastic game to play while listening to a podcast. It's not as good as the Truck Simulator games, though, and they shamelessly milk the franchise by releasing "new" versions every other year with virtually no changes.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 07-20-17 7:44 AM
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What do Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, and for a non-tech example Steve Spielberg, think of democracy? [..] but are generally apolitical or right-leaning or were until recently.

In the sense of being Republicans, none of these three were ever that. They are people who think that liberalism* and the political economy we have, excepting changes around the edges, are compatible. Basically, they are in favor of any liberalism that allows their wealth to be possible.

*In the sense that Elizabeth Bruenig does a decent job of clarifying here: https://medium.com/@ebruenig/understanding-liberals-versus-the-left-5cff7ea41fd8


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 07-20-17 7:48 AM
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46: I will defer to your expertise, but I will say that when I drive through rural areas in the upper midwest, field with large round (cylindrical, not spherical) hay bales outnumber fields with small rectangular bales at a ratio of at least 50:1. I do see the smaller ones, but I associate them with small farms using old equipment. But that's just anecdata.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 07-20-17 8:16 AM
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That's at least partially because the small rectangular bales aren't intended to be stored outside for long periods of time. They go in the barn, but the giant round bales can stay in the field until use.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-20-17 8:18 AM
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I have an economic theory in which distribution is a matter of political choices, not a result of laws of supply and demand. And, in this theory, most claims about how minimum wages lead to disemployment are a matter of spouting ignorant balderdash.

Maybe I should send some email to Nick H.


Posted by: Robert | Link to this comment | 07-20-17 2:50 PM
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Which hay structure is most suitable for sleeping under as a hobo? Asking for my future grandchildren.


Posted by: Todd | Link to this comment | 07-20-17 3:07 PM
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Demonstration


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 07-20-17 8:26 PM
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Glad to see someone is still doing that. At the time, 20 years ago, I was evaluating a ranch there to purchase for the company where I was employed. At the time, they said they were going to switch to round bales because they were having trouble finding summer labor to do it the old way. You can't get much lower capital investment.


Posted by: Out West | Link to this comment | 07-21-17 6:19 PM
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Speaking of agriculture, somebody on my Facebook put up a video of a boar with huge testicles. I guess P.E. teachers have lots of free time in the summer.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-21-17 6:23 PM
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Speaking of agriculture, somebody on my Facebook put up a video of a boar with huge testicles. I guess P.E. teachers have lots of free time in the summer.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-21-17 6:23 PM
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D'oh.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-21-17 6:23 PM
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I guess he didn't post it. His brother tagged him in it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-21-17 6:29 PM
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