Re: Free Association

1

On the other hand...On the other hand...On the other hand
Sounds like you have sufficient extras that you don't need to spend the money for the safer saw.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 9:58 AM
horizontal rule
2

This article mentioned patent issues:

"On the other hand, Gass has told the CPSC that his company would license its patents to competitors for an eight-percent cut of their table-saw revenue--though that promise might not be legally binding."

I wonder what was done in the past with other safety technology.


Posted by: BA | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 10:09 AM
horizontal rule
3

Re: Charlottesville, it's sad/scary/maddening how there are just so many outright lies about it. E.g. people are saying that Heyer came there armed and the neo-Nazis were peaceful.

Also not news, but it comes to mind because I'm on the verge of commenting on the other place about it. One friend of mine is generally apolitical, but she's on the right side of this issue, and I don't want to get too aggressive with someone who for all I know she might really care about. So far the best I've come up with is asking for a source for his claim that isn't literally a fraud or conspiracy theorist.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 10:37 AM
horizontal rule
4

Like how the mother of the terrorist can say she didn't think her son was a white supremacist because he was supporting Trump.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 10:43 AM
horizontal rule
5

people are saying that Heyer came there armed and the neo-Nazis were peaceful.

Really? Is that talking point getting any exposure outside of right wing message boards? I haven't heard/seen it in anything I've watched/read since Saturday.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 10:47 AM
horizontal rule
6

5: That's what the bubble's all about.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 11:05 AM
horizontal rule
7

Or the vast network of bubbles. Physalisphere?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 11:07 AM
horizontal rule
8

5: I saw one guy saying it on Facebook 4 hours ago. The only reason I haven't already called it a lie is (a) it's hard to prove a negative (I mean, within a month I'm sure there will be some debunking out there of all the lies about this, but I don't think it's written yet), and (b) I want to be diplomatic to my friend whose post the asshole was commenting on.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 11:28 AM
horizontal rule
9

Just watched today's (Monday's) statement from 45. So low-energy. He basically winces throughout, consistent with him seeing this as losing him vehement supporters.

Still, I think I'm from 0% up to 1% optimistic in that it was possible for the country and DC elites to shame him into this more conventionally anti-racism statement. Even if he had to preface it with preening on economic statistics.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 11:29 AM
horizontal rule
10

3, 8: Every now and then, with folks like that, I'll go meta and embark on a discussion about the discussion: How would your opinion of white supremacy be affected if one of them rammed a car into peaceful protesters? Would that be a bad thing? Why?

It's sometimes interesting to explore people's views if you concede their central point and present the truth to them as a counterfactual. What if Hitler actually had committed genocide? Would that have been a crime?

Under that approach, basically every sentence has to end in a question mark. The only exception is when you say: "I'm just asking a question. I want to understand your thinking on this."

Debating people like that on facts is absurd, because the facts, in broad outline, are readily available. You know they've seen a presentation of the facts; otherwise, how would they know what to deny?

But by talking in terms of counterfactuals, you go into their weird space and talk to them on their own terms. I've had some interesting results with that.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 11:50 AM
horizontal rule
11

Free association absolutism.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 12:22 PM
horizontal rule
12

1: she's a larry niven fan.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 12:26 PM
horizontal rule
13

10: Thanks. Maybe I'll try that. Not sure if I can get sucked into an argument, but I feel obligated to say something.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 12:31 PM
horizontal rule
14

Anecdotally, people who work with power saws frequently remove safety features so that they can work faster. Some of that will be late capitalism and collective action problems, but some of it is just people are kinda dumb.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 6:28 PM
horizontal rule
15

He basically winces throughout, consistent with him seeing this as losing him vehement supporters.

If he meant it, he would have tweeted it.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 6:29 PM
horizontal rule
16

14.1 is true for buzz saws back in my day, but that safety feature (requiring two hands on the saw before it would work) really did slow you down. The new "no cut off flesh" sensor didn't seem as intrusive.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 7:20 PM
horizontal rule
17

there are 4000+ amputations each year due to table saws

?!? I guess I'd always assumed that the only people who use table saws are those This Old House, New Yankee Workshop-type guys, who wear faded blue jeans with artisanal leather vests, and who never make mistakes with their woodworking tools.


Posted by: Just Plain Jane | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 7:35 PM
horizontal rule
18

Lots of people are being disabused of their notions about the competence of white people.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 8:21 PM
horizontal rule
19

16: I can't evaluate that because I don't read OP links. Anyway the one story was different, butchers removing some kind of barrier thingy from a band saw, which would have kept their hands out of harm's way, but fuck that shit they're badass. And that shop was German, most competent of all white peoples.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 8:24 PM
horizontal rule
20

My dad had the most raggedy-ass table saw from Sears. The thing had an exposed belt drive attached to a giant electric motor, with no blade guard or any of that shit. Dad used to take it to the back yard and cut firewood with it. My brother has it now, and has offered it to me, but I don't really have space for a table saw.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 8:50 PM
horizontal rule
21

I don't really have space limbs for a table saw.
FTFY.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 9:02 PM
horizontal rule
22

Okay, folks! I am off to my week in Wisconsin, mostly northern WI, and the anger and alienation I feel is kind of insane already. To be fair this transit day (with 5yo, without spouse) is going to round out at 20 hours, so that might be a confound.

Chatty young ppl headed to Wausau from O'Hare. Everyone is a little loopy. Not a wholly white crowd. I look blond and dour enough for legions.

(Hydrobatidae, salutations)


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 9:23 PM
horizontal rule
23

And that shop was German, most competent of all white peoples.

Especially at 20th century world war.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 11:10 PM
horizontal rule
24

IKR?!


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 11:18 PM
horizontal rule
25

23: a 0-2 record doesn't look tremendously competent.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 11:43 PM
horizontal rule
26

On the internet, no-one knows when your tongue is in your cheek.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-14-17 11:56 PM
horizontal rule
27

I only just learned those Turtledove books were fiction from the other thread.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 12:19 AM
horizontal rule
28

Especially at 20th century world war.

Actually, Germans were strikingly incompetent at 20th century world war. They completely fucked it up twice in the space of thirty years.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 4:42 AM
horizontal rule
29

They didn't even get as far into Russia as the French did back before motorized transport was a thing.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 5:18 AM
horizontal rule
30

29: hmm, debatable. They didn't get to Moscow, but they got to the Volga, which Napoleon didn't.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 5:20 AM
horizontal rule
31

Was there any point in getting to the Volga then?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 5:23 AM
horizontal rule
32

Marshall Ney wouldn't have known where to the put oil in a horse.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 5:25 AM
horizontal rule
33

Was there any point in getting to the Volga then?

If they wanted to lose an entire army group at Stalingrad, then they had to reach the Volga.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 5:28 AM
horizontal rule
34

22: Greetings from O'Hare. Headed to the homeland and was supposed to get new visa. But due to university regulations, that's doubtful. Should be a relaxing vacation :|


Posted by: hydrobatidae | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 5:29 AM
horizontal rule
35

I was in Midway yesterday. It looked normal.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 5:36 AM
horizontal rule
36

No sign of hostile carrier groups?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 5:40 AM
horizontal rule
37

The Southwest flight attendant made a joke about how they beat the competition, not the passengers. Usually the corny shtick gets old, but I laughed at that one.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 5:40 AM
horizontal rule
38

23: The best of the "America #1, European country #2" videos that were floating around Europe at the beginning of the year was the German one. It really nailed Trump's style of speech. The best bit was "We had two world wars. They were the best world wars... in the world, and if anyone says Germany lost them, that's Fake News".


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 6:07 AM
horizontal rule
39

36: There's a Dauntless bomber on the ceiling.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 6:11 AM
horizontal rule
40

Germany never inspired a Tolstoy novel. Clear win.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 6:55 AM
horizontal rule
41

That's all right, it's one of ours.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 7:08 AM
horizontal rule
42

That's what you think.


Posted by: Vladimir Vladimirovich | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 7:17 AM
horizontal rule
43

Is "accidental" retweeting the new dogwhistle? Within I think the same space of 12 hours, Trump / that cartoon and our local sheriff's office / Richard Spencer. Both disavowed and deleted.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 8:32 AM
horizontal rule
44

"My fear is that the whole island [of Guam] will become so overpopulated that it will tip over and capsize."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjG958lZ1KI


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 8:37 AM
horizontal rule
45

"We don't anticipate that happening."
Hope the navy guy got a medal for that one.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 8:42 AM
horizontal rule
46

Going out on a limb, there, Admiral. As soon as Guam starts heeling, your career is done for.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 8:46 AM
horizontal rule
47

Your new career as a dog trainer, though, just took off.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 8:55 AM
horizontal rule
48

Jumping in to reinforce that, at least with table saws, the safety measures tend to be clumsy and shitty, basically intended to cheaply protect the careless and incompetent while allowing them to do crappy work. IME the most important safety feature is a readily-available kill switch that can be operated with more or less any available extremity.

By contrast, the safety guard on my chop saw is very elegant and I almost never* in any way prevent its normal operation. I don't think woodworkers and carpenters are especially dismissive of safety features, but their threshold for tolerating friction is very, very low.

*the only exception is that sometimes, with big/awkward pieces of wood, the guard catches and you can't cut at all without nudging it


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 10:52 AM
horizontal rule
49

kill switch that can be operated with more or less any available extremity

That's why so many woodshops have porn on the wall.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 11:07 AM
horizontal rule
50

OT: So my cousin died and I typed in his name and city. His voting address and party identification (Democrat) was the first hit. Is that for everybody in North Carolina?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 11:13 AM
horizontal rule
51

I was looking for the time of the service, not checking his politics.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 11:14 AM
horizontal rule
52

I think if everyone in North Carolina were a Democrat we'd be in a very different world right now.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 11:20 AM
horizontal rule
53

How wrong is it that I want to listen to "The Statue Got Me High" right now?

More wrong than wanting earlier to parody the ticky tacky boxes song re: Tiki torches?


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 5:28 PM
horizontal rule
54

I wonder what was done in the past with other safety technology.

One field that's quite different is automobiles. Mercedes has quite a few patents for safety equipment, and they have repeatedly stated that they're not going to sue anyone that uses their technology. Copy away!


Posted by: BigHank53 | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 6:10 PM
horizontal rule
55

Yeah, I googled "seat belt patent" and it seems Volvo gave manufacturers permission to copy away.


Posted by: BA | Link to this comment | 08-15-17 6:44 PM
horizontal rule
56

This story is on topic. The picture looks kind of surreal until you think about it, then it gets to be a horror.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-16-17 6:51 AM
horizontal rule
57

in such a way that the gun would be facing his body when he pulled the trigger

I think I see the problem here.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08-16-17 6:58 AM
horizontal rule
58

It is actually quite difficult to think of a safety mechanism that will protect people who are prepared to point a gun at their own chests and pull the trigger. Possibly mittens.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08-16-17 6:59 AM
horizontal rule
59

I'm pretty sure I've actually done that when I was framing houses. You need one hand to hold the gun, so to apply pressure you need the other hand and your body. Anyway, with framing, the wood is bigger so it seems safer.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-16-17 7:02 AM
horizontal rule
60

They told me about the guy who nailed his foot to the subfloor. That also seems pretty easy to have happen when you are moving quickly.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-16-17 7:13 AM
horizontal rule
61

They told me about the guy who nailed his foot to the subfloor.

WELL, I MEAN, HE HAD TO. I HAD TRANSGRESSED THE UNWRITTEN LAW.


Posted by: Stig O'Tracy | Link to this comment | 08-16-17 7:25 AM
horizontal rule
62

I think the law you transgressed was written, but you threw away the OSHA pamphlet.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-16-17 7:42 AM
horizontal rule
63

Those are just guidelines.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-16-17 7:44 AM
horizontal rule