A guy I went to graduate school with, who pointed me in the direction of my first professional job, is now an Orthodox priest. Not sure what kind.

Anyway, it's nice that they consider this bigger than the entire Protestant Reformation.

Pikers, a bunch of Ivans-come-lately. The Armenian and Georgian Orthodox Churches are not only autocephalous but also apostolic.

2: From the Orthodox perspective that was just a silly skirmish among the heathens.

I'm a little too drunk and this is a little too byzantine to follow.

The Ft of all people had a leader on this on Monday. I don't think it will get papered over. The orthodox reall do hate each other with astonishing venom, and can keep it up for centuries. Besides, there is a lot of church property in the Ukraine which will change hands as a result of this.

I remember when all the Russians were atheists. I guess it didn't stick.

2: The Reformation was a whole lot of little schisms spread over decades. This one breaks the Orthodox church in half overnight.

I feel like I would need to look up statistics to dispute that and I don't want to learn. Still, I wonder if just the Martin Luther schism wasn't more central to the then-current Christan world than the Orthodox church of a country that uses to be atheist.

Wikipedia says Russia and Ukraine put together have over 60% of the global population of Eastern Orthodox adherents*, so this is pretty important.

* For each of those countries taking the midpoint of the lower and upper estimates found here. Adding Romania, Greece, Serbia, and Belarus gets me to over 80%. US is #19.

I'm not sure why we need to add in Romania et al. The Orthodox in one country (Russia) are splitting from the orthodox Orthodox. I don't see why that automatically counts as a bigger deal than a good chunk of the Holy Roman Empire becoming Protestant. For one thing, we know that the latter started a war that killed like a 3rd of Germany and we don't even know that the former will outlive Putin.

The Russians are being self-dramatizing assholes is what I'm proposing as a thesis.

Moby so gloomy. Schisms don't happen every day you know. Enjoy the show!

Substantively:
That one country breaking off has at least 30% of all Orthodox, which I'm pretty sure makes it proportionally the biggest single schism since 1054.
Politically, it matters because Putin has pan-Slavism as part of his propaganda system, and this break puts the lie to that pretty starkly.
Historically, granting autocephaly to Ukraine breaks a church hierarchy established during the Russian empire, and so marks another step in that empire's disintegration.
World-historically (stretching my knowledge badly), the 30 Years' War was only marginally about Protestantism. What it was largely about was the consolidation of state power, and it ended with the subordination of religious affairs to the state in most (all?) of the Empire. Assuming this schism sticks (and I'll take NW's judgment on that) the Russian church, stripped of universalist pretensions, will be left as what it has really been for a long time: an arm of the Russian state. That might be taken as a late echo of early modernism, or an omen of future Orwellianism, or (what I think) both.

Also worth noting is the fact that all of Russian Orthodoxy, indeed all Russia, began in Kiev. It's a psychological blow to lose it, or, perhaps, be lost to it.

What it was largely about was the consolidation of state power

I mean, so was protestantism, in many places at least.

Exactly. It's all about control, man.

||

The author's own great-great-great-grandfather, Maha Mindin Thinkaya, the Myoza of Dabessway, escaped assassination as he had stayed at home that day owing to a bad cold. Kanaung, though, was decapitated and his head was paraded about the nearby passage by Myinhkondaing.

18 is a great aside, well up there with MRD Foot's "The bars of most Gestapo cells, though impressive in appearance, were generally held in place by a few thin strips of metal, which could easily be cut using a wire saw*."

And there's a footnote:
"Personal experience."

What it was largely about was the consolidation of state power

true enough, that. I never believed a word of that Lutheran crap.

6. I read a thing (possibly via you) where the author analysed a well known picture of "Lenin discussing with some peasants", and showed, with reference to their beard styles and dress code that what Lenin was actually doing was recruiting the Old Believers.

a little too byzantine

I see what you did there.

(This is where my Harald Hardrada post should have gone but in reality his legend touches all timelines and belong on all threads.)

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

3 - the Armenians are even non-Chalcedonian. Don't know for sure about the Georgians.

Mostly Baptist, I think.

24: Disturbing. First they came for the Region Council of 1912...

25: The Infallible Wikipedia tells me that the Georgian Orthodox Church waffled a bit, but eventually landed on the Chalcedonian side, the better to forge alliances with Constantinople against the Persians.

That worked. They were never conquered by Persians.

26: The better to form alliances with Americans.

It really is Byzantine.

Don't believe the hype!

Epiphanius's enthronement was attended by only one high-ranking representative from a Local Church -- Metropolitan Emmanuel of Gaul, of the Patriarchate of Constantinople.