Kids entering college today have never even seen an airport where you could just walk in and ask people for money or to switch religions.

I got a funny voicemail message on my phone today. It was faint, a kid saying "what do I do" and an adult saying "just talk into it" back and forth for a bit, and then Pokey saying, "I forgot my backpack" into the phone, and then holding it away and saying "now what?" to the adult. We've never gotten around to teaching him phone etiquette because neither of us ever talk on the phone.

How is boarding a plane with four kids? My sister and her husband have done it with three and she said it wasn't hard. I thought they were going to split up the family and put them in the middle seats of five widely scattered rows because I haven't had good luck with airlines lately.

Wow, nice work Boeing PR - on the same day that the EU says "We don't trust Boeing and we don't trust the FAA - we will approve the 737 Max for ourselves, or it will remain grounded", they manage to get a massive story in the SMH about how dangerous Airbus aircraft are because their automation goes wrong and produces uncommanded pitch-downs.

Anyway, my solution to airlines hazing you just to board or take luggage was always to fly Southwest. Which has only 737 planes.

If you fly to Omaha instead of Lincoln, you can take Southwest and you can eat a Godfather's Pizza so you know what Herman Cain thinks people think tastes good.

As a godfather myself, I cannot endorse encouraging other people to casually eat my pizza.

A godfather's pizza should of course be eaten with utmost seriousness.

How is boarding a plane with four kids?

Easy. Airlines are terrified of splitting up families in such a way that you have a singleton kid, so it just doesn't happen. And kids don't have shit to put in the overhead compartment, usually.

The first hurdle to flying is having kids old enough that they can immersed in an ipad. Then once they're old enough to work the ipad and not be badgering you every three seconds - "SOMETHING HAPPENED! SOMETHING HAPPENED!" "yes, remember we talked about how you can't touch the screen with either hand or it will stop?" - then everything is gravy. (This part is not directed at Mobes, who knows.)

We still vastly prefer driving to flying, even when my parents have offered to foot the cost. It's just so much more relaxing not to have a tight schedule.

I should say "rigid schedule" not "tight schedule".

Airlines are terrified of splitting up families in such a way that you have a singleton kid, so it just doesn't happen.

By which I mean that if it happens, they quickly and eagerly undo it.

One time when C was about six, I had to beg other passengers to two seats together on Southwest. But there were only two seats left on the plane because the connecting flight was late and we barely made it. That was the flight he puked on. Then I puked up Godfather's breakfast pizza later. I'm sure whoever sat in those seats for the next couple of days got violently ill.

I've never understood the rush to board as soon as possible. a) It means standing in a queue for ages, unless you're in first. b) Who wants to sit in plane seat when you could be sitting in a lounge seat with leg room and the ability to get up and walk around?

9 times out of 10 I'm in the last two or three people to board, and I'm considerably less stressed as a result.

Because if you want to get your luggage in the overhead bin, you need to get on early.

13: Conversely, who wants to sit at all. I might as well stand if I'm going to be sitting for the next five hours, and if I'm standing and there's a line I might as well be standing in it.

Mostly, in my case, trying to board ASAP is an abundance of caution. I've missed a connecting flight once or twice - not my fault, fuck Porter Airlines, but anyways - and logically I realize if I'm already at the gate, being in the line doesn't make a difference, but I might worry subconsciously about things like that, and aside from the risk of actually getting left behind I don't want to be the asshole straggler holding everyone else up.

I think the airlines have collectively figured out how to translate their profit motive for frictionless boarding and offboarding into a collective sense of urgency - even among passengers - using some battery of techniques. I get the same sense in grocery stores, most prominently Trader Joe's: the briskness of the checkout experience conveys that speed is important rather than just preferable.

I have a fond teenage memory of the family being made late for a connection, finding the gate closed but the plane still there, and my mother scolding the gate staff until they opened it again for us.

14: Yes, and also if you're flying Southwest (no assigned seats), you'll be forced to sit in a middle seat. And if you're a family you'll have to separate.

They used to make you actually divorce.

And disown your children.

If you use a soft duffel instead of a rigid wheeley bag, there's always overhead space because you can fit into odd-shaped leftover space.

Also I just go unpopular places and it all seems to work out fine.

14 Exactly this. I tend to fly the national carrier here when I go on vacations since I got upgraded in their privilege club because of business travel just to keep my status, and it's largely because of boarding privileges.

Anyway, from the 2nd link:

One is bigger overhead bins that have room for all the crap we carry on board now. Delta has installed these on much of its fleet -- suitcases fit sideways, so more can fit in each bin, and more can fit on the plane overall.

Baggage handling also seems to be getting better. Maybe this is a consequence of the practice of charging for checked bags: Airlines need to show customers they're getting value for what they paid. Delta even allows me to track my bag from my phone and guarantees delivery to the baggage claim within 20 minutes of arrival, or else I get extra frequent flyer miles. I now find that when I check a bag, it often gets to the baggage claim before I do.

Bag fees of course are still a disincentive to check luggage, but -- as you can see from all the passengers lining up to board in the earliest groups -- many flyers are eligible to check a bag for free because of their airline status, or their ticket type, or what credit card they carry, and so making luggage check less of a pain could encourage a lot more customers to use it.

All of which is to say, we may have a future where overhead bin space is no longer scarce, and customers can be reasonably sure they'll have a spot for the bag they brought -- and also reasonably indifferent to the possibility that a gate agent might seize the bag and put it in the hold.

I don't know if I buy it, but it's a nice thought.

If it's a short trip, I carry a duffle that fits under the seat in front of me if needed.

I am a bit of a white-knuckle flyer. I am right at this moment on a business trip where the guy on the speaker informed the passengers of 'technical problems with the engine.' Some people were upset, but not me. The whole situation reminded me of why I like Amtrak.

18. ?? $20/pax to go to the front bolus of the line (that is, be assured of overhead space and get to sit together).

To the OP, here's a discussion of the 737 max design process I don't understand whether this is basically what design of a complex system is like now, or whether there truly are saner alternatives that more closely resemble design before software.

You still have to get on the plane early. You can't wait in the lounge.

Grete moments in flight boarding:

An early morning Philadelphia/LA flight, mostly busines types, overweight middle aged white guys who pray for an empty middle seat. Just as boarding starts a youth baketball team appears. They are noisy in the way of teenagers among friends, excited both because they qualified for a national tournament and because many have never flown before They are also very tall and gangly. And fidgety. Also ethnically and culturally distinct from the middle aged white guys. In other words, they push almost every possible button as the absolutely worst people to have in your row. On board it appears that the airline has assigned them 15 middle seats, all in different rows. For once, there is no difficulty finding volunteers to give away their window seats to allow the team to sit together.

Amtrak is nice, but it takes 26 hours from Pittsburgh to Lincoln. Granted some of those hours can be spent sightseeing in Chicago, but that's still pretty slow.

I didn't know the anti-trust laws applied to human cargo too.

At 3/5 of a ton, presumably.

Also, cars are less complex systems than planes, but there'll be lots more of them when they turn out to have scalp-splattering bugs.

Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

Grebe moments in flight boarding.

They should make planes where the overhead compartments lock on take off and only unlock once the plane arrives at the gate. The latest stories about that Aeroflot flight that caught fire and people almost certainly died because they were held up by people getting their luggage out of the overhead bins are seriously disturbing. There was a flight in Dubai that caught fire on the tarmac a year or so ago and there was footage of people doing this. Really fucked up. You got your change of clothes but that family behind you burned to a crisp. Assholes.

You never know if the people behind aren't going to go on to be the parents of Hitler 2.0.

Also why you can go ahead and recline your seat.

Slightly more probably, many people prefer their long pig well medium rare.

Goddamnit.

33: Also, cars are less complex systems than planes, but there'll be lots more of them when they turn out to have scalp-splattering bugs.

Just came across this prescient sentence from Norbert Wiener (In God & Golem, Inc., 1963).

I should hate very much to ride on the first trial of an automobile regulated by photoelectric feedback devices, unless there were somewhere a handle by which I could take over control if I found myself driving smack into a tree.

If the computer wants to get the tree with a glancing blow, that's fine with him.

Also perfectly ok with running over a child. Shameful!

36. The Boston Globe had a column today about exactly this proposal. There was a lot of comment-section feedback both pro and con. The "con" people mostly thought (being Bostonians) that people would try to defeat the locks, or not pay attention to the procedures, or otherwise slow the evacuation down even more. This was a proposal that even said "the bins would only lock if the seatbelt sign is on."

I for one am in Camp Ban-All-Carry-ons. A purse or laptop case/bag that can fit under the seat is okay. (The rules for an evacuation say you can't grab those either.) There would also be a mandatory $N refund from the airline if you don't get your bags within X minutes of deplaning.

Why would they have to pay in Namibian currency?

Ban-All-Carry-ons ... the airline

oh please. Checked bags are fine on direct flights, but a change of planes at a crowded or a not 1000% smooth for any reason like a recent holiday or the baggage guy's girlfriend dumped him earlier airport is something else. Your bag will get there too, but long after you do.

44
This was a proposal that even said "the bins would only lock if the seatbelt sign is on."

I'm too lazy to find and read the article, but I think this makes it worse than complete locking from takeoff to landing, not better. If people are evacuating, why would the seatbelt sign be on?

The flight attendant is feeling selfish.

I think that deer was trying to steal my chicken.

On topic because flying, the Swedish are apparently into flight shaming:

The Swedish movement of flygskam, or "flight shame," has brought awareness to the toll air travel has on the environment. According to a 2013 study, air travel has the "biggest climate impact per distance travelled," while carpooling, bus rides and train travel are greener alternatives.

After disturbingly inconclusive oral arg on appeal-writ proceedings in hellish case earlier this week had vivid nightmare presiding justice ordered further briefing and argument, really terrifying.

For once, there is no difficulty finding volunteers to give away their window seats to allow the team to sit together.

People who have never flown before should get the window seats anyway -- the world from above is so amazing.

Took Amtrak to-from 2nd arg (what a week) with great satisfaction so much better than flying.

Discuss of locks reminds me of time lock on my suitcase went haywire & tsa people said their supervisor would sort me out - sure enough she picked it in moments. She declined my over to write a glowing feedback comment. Her workers clearly and rightly revered her.

My non-pseudonymized girlfriend and I are taking Amtrak to DC in ten days or so, which is a 15-hour trip each way and leaves/arrives our city in the middle of the night. We'll only get two full days and two slivers of days there, but being able to doze beside each other and chat for that long seemed way better than flying.

That does sound nice. Have a good trip.

You can see pandas in D.C., but not up close. I forget what else there was.

57: you can see assholes up close too, as you can apply to sit in a seat overlooking the house of representatives. but then you can almost certainly see pandas' assholes at the zoo also, so, maybe not necessary.

44: be serious. your laptop and then...all your other electronic devices including chargers; your DS so you can play animal crossing (ok maybe not absolutely crucial); all 14 bottles of expensive medicine you have to take four times a day, which, if removed, will cause severe withdrawal symptoms, and which it will take some while to replace, etc. I have waited a few days to get luggage from the airlines when they accidentally left it in qatar. I do have a small bag, and a big purse with room for lots of things that fits under the seat, but no way could I fit everything in the purse. and what if they snatch away my small overhead bag and try to check it? they tell you explicitly not to put computers or medicine in there. as narnians would say, "then how? so difficult one."

bah, 57 s/b 56, I always do this.

54: NPG it is!

Speaking of, uh, status, I got news that I (and nine other people at my relatively small workplace, making about 15% of the staff) am going to be laid off. The positive side is I've been getting ready to submit a resignation effective around the same time as the layoff time, and this way I get a severance, and they also don't lay off someone who wasn't already on the way out. I have one job application that's been out nearly four months and I'm just getting to the final round now.

Good luck dp!

Thanks! I have mixed feelings about running out of time to simply go from one job to another, but also relieved to know I won't continue to drag things out. The head of my department has known I've been looking to leave by the end of the summer for months, but I'd been hesitant to make that choice knowing I'd just have my savings, which I think are not even as much as my severance will be.

Freudian slip with the pseud there, maybe.

May you find a new job as quickly as you found the missing 'z'.

57.1: The National Zoo pandas were sitting on their butts the whole time we watched them. They were just shoving bamboo in their mouths constantly. It got old pretty quickly, but it was free and there was no line.

Pandas suck. I would sooner reincarnate as a cockroach.

Someone was just telling me there's a lobster glut, which I theorized was the beginning of the End Times with the sea cockroaches beginning their population surge before they and the land cockroaches take over everything.

66 Pandas are cute. Cockroaches are the hyenas of the insect world. They suck.

And there's never just one of those filthy motherfuckers.

Look who's talking.

The lobster glut I blame on Jordan Peterson

We can sort out gluts of anything. Send them over.

Great. Just expect a long lecture on masculinity while you gnaw him.

fuck you charismatic megafauna and the horse you rode in on

Can't. I ate the stripey horse. Tasty.

We aren't horses and nobody rides us.

You're a bit gamier, it's true.

Yup: you would sensibly increase the discomfort of his death if you showed him that the penis he'd been lecturing you about was really your clitoris.
So chew slowly.

How is boarding a plane with four kids?

According to the safety briefing on Southwest yesterday evening: in the event of a loss of cabin pressure, you should first put on your own oxygen mask before helping children. And if you are traveling with more than one child, "Start with the one with the highest earnings potential, post-college, and work your way down from there."

I just like that the first three or so boarding groups (first class, soldiers, and people with babies i think) on United are called 'preboarding', as if they are doing something qualitativly different than the 'boarding' that mere prols and civilians do.

"Kids entering college today have never even seen an airport where you could just walk in and ask people for money or to switch religions."

I'm guessing they've seen tv or movies. IIRC they took quite a while to stop showing airport gate scenes; we used to think the airline security theater would go away I think.

I feel like the real premium thing would be getting LEAVE the plane first.

Crop dusting first class is fun.

The real dividing line in air travel is when tickets were transferrable- there was a significant secondary market in reselling tickets the way there is now for event tickets- and being able to go to the gate to see off people if you weren't flying yourself. I vaguely remember the latter but have only heard stories of the former.
Supposedly there's still a way to go to the gate with people even if you're not flying, you buy an expensive but fully refundable ticket on a random flight so you can go through security, then get a refund when you leave. Guess you just need a card with a high credit limit.

You can just ask if you have a reason. You can also, apparently, get to the Pittsburgh Airport's Skymall without a ticket. I've never tried.

Hawaii's class watched a sex ed video today. Apparently the teacher said that she'd like to answer questions, but legally she's not allowed to, so students should ask their parents and guardians any questions.

Can you imagine trying to teach ANYTHING and then saying "no questions allowed!" I guess online teaching is somewhat delayed on questions, but still.

84: "This looks just like the pictures in that magazine my daddy gets. Except there's no dinosaurs or cars."

They only forbid questions to the teacher. Statements are fine.

11: Once when our kid was about 5, we booked a flight using credit-card miles where we had to book and pay for his ticket separately. Turns out there were two planes, same airline, same destination leaving a couple of minutes apart, and they booked him on the other airplane! We managed to get it straightened out before we flew, but it was a challenge due to non-refundable tickets.

36: That would be a safety issue for lithium batteries, which they make you carry on because there is a tiny chance they will catch fire in flight, and they want them to be accessible if they do. Having one of those in a locked compartment sounds like a really terrible idea - in addition to making bulkhead rows really unpopular.

36: That would be a safety issue for lithium batteries, which they make you carry on because there is a tiny chance they will catch fire in flight, and they want them to be accessible if they do. Having one of those in a locked compartment sounds like a really terrible idea - in addition to making bulkhead rows really unpopular.

Two rows per plane.