Can't they partially offset the problem by milking the cows?
1: I'm thinking they do. But my understanding is that doesn't work with the males.
Maybe they're not yanking in the right way?
They milk all the cows. When no more milk, beef. But now no beef, so peppermint.
Had anybody told them cows are more delicious if you don't wait until they get old before eating them?
I think I mentioned this before, but once my parents invited a priest (Catholic) visiting from India to dinner. He wouldn't eat beef even though he wasn't Hindu.
I don't have nipples, and I'm not a cow.
9: You might have to warn people about that if you ever eat dinner in Nebraska.
11: Thanks for the warning!
Have I ever eaten dinner in Nebraska? Maybe! If I did, it was back when I ate beef.
If you look South Asian, most of the educated Nebraskans will probably think to ask.
13: Well, even in Ohio, if I was invited over for dinner, I would warn the hosts that I'm vegetarian. But the word must have gone out, because I can't remember the last time anyone invited me over for dinner.
I wonder if there's a reason why religious fundamentalism is increasing as a way to shore-up governments across all (most?) of the more common religions.
Also presumably free-roaming economically useless cows hits small farmers harder than big.
I don't have the mental power to learn two reasons.
Global communications and mobility definitely help fundamentalists spread and catalyze one another and that adds a degree of synchronization that could otherwise be missing (evangelicals in the Americas and Africa, Salafists all over, Buddhists from Sri Lanka). Fear and consequent swings to authoritarianism, not intrinsically religious, but religions are there waiting (and social media make it easier to play to authoritarians). Some of that is also increasingly synchronized (2008). Ideologically, the shock of the modern is all over (Scopes Trial, Muslim Brotherhood).
Then there's local shit that I suspect would be happening anyway. Buddhist radicals are coming out of Sri Lanka, but the ideology as executed seems to me to be tied up with separate nation-building projects there and in SEA, which essentially have been underway since the 18C or earlier, and perhaps are synchronized through interrelationships and common effects from European colonization. The hindutva thing IDK but apparently the BJP is just the most successful of many branches growing from a movement beginning in the mid-20C (so maybe another synchronized effect from the end of empire).
Israel I'm blissfully ignorant but have to note it's independence and prior viciousnesses are perfectly synchronized with those in British India.
18: Also some of the gau rakshas are allegedly extorting hides and steaks from their victims.
I wonder whether comparable amateur militia violence is in America's future. I would have said, a few years ago, that violence against their fellow white people would be too much for many conservative-to-reactionary Americans to endorse in 2020, but events suggest that I am quite mistaken.
[Reassuring joke goes here.]
Also some of the gau rakshas are allegedly extorting hides and steaks from their victims.
I'm confused by this.
We already have amateur militias now rounding people up at the border and handing them over to Border Patrol. Wouldn't be much of a step for them to start doing it farther from the border.
Their rule was that traders have to give skin to them for free after slaughter of animal. They export the skin. When Niranjan asked Chaudhry, why do you do so, when it is not allowed in your religion? Chaudhry pointed towards an idol of Goddess Lakshmi and asked, shall I worship that god or skin?(I didn't like the look of that source, so. If it's true I'll bet I'm right about the steaks though.)
It is interesting to see from the "gau raksha" phase how closely the words for "cow" are related across HIndi and Engliish. Not sure why in the phrase it's gau not gay (गाय), the former isn't in the word's declensions table, but possibly something to do with compounding.
Trying to research this language question found these depressing 2014 Modi-campaign stickers: "Who will you choose: Gau Raksha or Gay Raksha?"
It's comments like 28 that make this place great.
Yes, in Persian it's gav (pronounced like in British English "guv")
And reminds me. Shock of the modern, empire, etc. Assuming accuracy.
That's the root of the name 'Gavin', which makes it really appropriate that Gavin MacLeod did so many westerns.
While his brother Colin focused on the Western Isles.
Huh. In Celtic *gʷṓws changed to *bāus, hence modern Irish bó. Looks like Celtic is the only family where that gʷ changed to a b, everywhere else it's a g or k sound.
Interestingly, that's also the origin of the most common Irish word for "boy," buachaill, which came from a word that meant "cowherd."
Bos is Greek i seem to remember.
Phone won't do the alphabet though
Yes, Greek βοῦς and Latin bos/boves, hence bovine.
36: You're right; shamefully, I knew that but had forgotten. I like, don't even see betas, man. There's a very cool chart here that confirms Hellenic and Celtic as the only daughter families that went that way, with the Hellenic case more complex and interesting.
(Also, the formatting of 36 is found poetry.)
Anyway, as an American I appreciate it when other nations have politics that are as bad and stupid in ours, but in their own unique ways.
Something boustrophedon something.
As for why it's bōs in Latin: gʷ didn't change in proto-Italic. In Latin it would later develop into to v, but it appears that Latin borrowed its word for cow from an Osco-Umbrian language, most likely Sabellian. Hence bōs instead of vōs. It probably says something about the early Romans that they borrowed another tribe's word for such an economic and culturally important animal.
Sigh. I lack the emotional bandwidth to deal with this conversation here. It has, quite literally, given me a nervous breakdown more than a few times in the last year. If you are really interested in a devout Hindu perspective on where all of this is coming from, and willing to not pour more acid on my weak heart right now, you can email me. I'm not going to read this thread or deal with anyone's jokes. I'm on a very thin rope right now, and I would like survive this year. Honestly, I would like to just survive the next three months.
I will say this: It boils down to people being in denial about modern population densities and agricultural arrangements and therefore a sense of denial about self-complicity in cow slaughter, and therefore a projection onto Muslims (and to a lesser extent Christians) as causing it rather than their own high population and modernity and greed causing it. And cattle---especially Indian cattle, which are smaller and quite different looking than the cattle Americans are used to--- are extremely social animals who mourn the loss of their offspring and their friends and bond with their caretakers much like pets. So please substitute in "beloved dog" every time you hear "cow" and see how that feels.
Sorry about the nervous condition and by cow jokes.
Why buy the cow joke if the milk is free?
I have no jokes to make and would totally email you for your take, Saheli, if I knew how without making you reread the thread. My email is here. I'm sorry if you have strong enough ties to both the U.S. and India that you're getting doubly whiplashed by both ongoing political nightmares.
My brother-in-law had a French wife who had a little dob named Gavroche. My father-in-law, who spoke no French, called the dog La Vache. I'd go with something something swastika something, but we're never to think of such things . . .
45/46 before seeing 41. Sorry, I'll drop out of the discussion.
I can be emailed below, if you wish (I would appreciate it).
I have no intention of pouring acid on anyone's heart. If I was flippant, I meant no harm, but did so because I don't respect anyone's superstitions and won't pretend to.
Nonetheless, I don't see that the "beloved pet" dimension changes anything.
These animals would need millions of tonnes of fodder and more drinking water than what is now available to all IndiansThat just isn't viable, and as HG says, there's already a formidable list of knock-on problems.
How do the cows keep having calves without somebody to insert the defrosted bull-frosting?
I've been vegetarian for the past 25 years. Not vegan, because I love cheese and dairy too much (my idea of comfort food?: a big bowl of mashed potatoes, with loads of butter melting into the spuds, well-seasoned with salt and pepper.)
My son, now almost 18 years of age, and about 6 feet one inches in height, is about as hale and hearty a specimen as you might ever wish to meet. I did not eat meat while carrying him.
I didn't drink coffee while carrying my son. I was too afraid I'd burn him by accident.
Uh, could I ask what "AIHMHBMTO" means?
As I have mentioned here before...many times over, probably.
"as I have mentioned here before many times over"?
"So please substitute in "beloved dog" every time you hear "cow" and see how that feels."
Yeah, I don't think Western farmers are raising herds of "beloved dogs" in order to slaughter them for meat, so you may have to find a better analogy.
Dammit, taking a mulligan on 54, it really should have been:
As I have mentioned here before many times over, "as I have mentioned here before many times over."
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Just boarded my flight, I'm NY bound.
Meetup?
Ajay when will you be in town?
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Talking of which, I may be in Narnia 19-21st of this month.
Saheli's point seems to be that this is a projection onto The Other of what has always quietly been done to cows, something which would help to make a ghastly sense of the whole thing.
Projection like that is hardly an exclusively Indian trait.
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I was really delighted, on behalf of the Campaign For Real Stalinism, to read the FT report of the execution of the North Korean negotiating team.
Chosun, South Korea's most widely circulated daily newspaper, cited an unnamed North Korean source as saying that Kim Hyok Chol was investigated and executed at Mirim Airport in March with the four foreign ministry officials.
Experts said the purge was designed to divert public attention from the failed Hanoi summit, at which Mr Trump rejected Mr Kim's offer to shut down the Yongbyon nuclear complex in return for sanctions relief. The president demanded a comprehensive deal including the dismantling of North Korea's other hidden nuclear sites.
...North Korean newspaper Rodong Sinmun hinted at the purge on Thursday. "Acting like one is revering the leader in front [of others] but dreaming of something else when one turns around, is an anti-party, antirevolutionary act that has thrown away the moral fidelity toward the leader and such people will not avoid the stern judgment of the revolution," it said.
"There are traitors and turncoats who only memorise words of loyalty toward the leader and even change according to the trend of the time."
"So please substitute in "beloved dog" every time you hear "cow" and see how that feels."
Yeah, I don't think Western farmers are raising herds of "beloved dogs" in order to slaughter them for meat, so you may have to find a better analogy.
I don't have a (ahem) "dog" in this fight, so please don't have a "cow" about this comment. But: I'd suggest that what Saheli's trying to get across, is that for many Hindus, the status of a cow, is as the status of a dog is in our culture. I mean, there *are* countries where dog is a common dish, right? And I think most of us Americans find that pretty .... distasteful? IIRC there were even campaigns at some point to "liberate" some of these dogs from their fate?
Also [again, I stress that I don't have a dog in this fight -- I've eaten and enjoyed a corned-beef sandwich in the last two weels] I think that the evidence of the many animal videos we've all watched, is that all manner of domestic (and, heck, wild) animals are capable of endearing behaviour. The puppy-dog seems to lie down with the cheetah without problem, when they're both getting fed by the gamekeeper. I'm not arguing for veganism here (I had a chicken sandwich just yesterday) but rather that if we can see dogs as a species that deserves special protection, then it's only reasonable to expect that others might feel that way about cows.
And rejecting that out-of-hand b/c "hey they're cows" is .... well, pretty closed-minded. Maybe another way of putitng it is: sure, I love doggies and cats. But I'm not going to find it some sort of horror, that in other cultures they cook and eat them with great relish. I've read enough about the intelligence of pigs, that I can't engage in that sort of hypocrisy after having had a yummy pork sando from The Sentinel just Tuesday.
Pigs would totally eat you if they had the chance, but not as eagerly as a cat would.
A cow wouldn't bother and a dog would, but only as a last resort.
If you played your cards just right, you could probably become the first person eaten by a sloth since the extinction of the ground sloths.
We did a sloth petting excursion and the guide was very explicit that you needed to give the sloth something to eat before you tried to pet it or it would bite you, so 66 doesn't seem that difficult.
I guess that's why they say travel broadens the mind.
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I know I saw that we were already discussing the citizenship bombshell somewhere, but now I can't find it...
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It's like in The Langoliers, except with as sloth instead of whatever that was in The Langoliers.
The Daily Mail has just served up one of the perfect tabloid headlines. I won't link, because I'm priggish that way, but you can always search on
"Sex dungeon headmaster, 74, who romped with his married secretary in study filled with whisky, sex toys and condoms while making 'Benny Hill' sounds is banned from teaching for life"
Projection like that is hardly an exclusively Indian trait.
I don't think anyone said it was.
if we can see dogs as a species that deserves special protection
I for one don't, and think many westerners have grossly disproportionate regard for pets.
rejecting that out-of-hand b/c "hey they're cows"
No-one said any such thing. I find it implausible that, for farmers, affection for cows outweighs pragmatism, considering that affection has never in millenia saved those cows from eventual slaughter. OTOH I find it highly plausible that relatively wealthy and urban Hindus who don't have to deal with the consequences (AIUI the BJP's core) can weight their values differently.
(None of the above goes to Saheli, whose position appears pretty nuanced.)
A friend of mine tried to share his potato chips with a cow. The cow wasn't having any of it, possibly on cry valid concerns about how long it has been since my friend had washed his hands.
Witb different friends, we also once tried to use potato chips to lure a starving dog into the truck. That didn't work either. We weren't even drunk.
In conclusion, man is the only animal that really appreciates potatoes.
Humans essentially invented both cows and potatoes. What you saw there was the enduring cost of systems incompatibility arising from the ill-planned hostile takeover of South American agriculture.
But dogs should be compatible with both systems.
It wouldn't let us get close enough to check.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to check whether it's Peruvian.
Inside of Peru, it's too dark to check whether a mammal is canine.
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Sarsaparilla is disgusting. Americans drink this shit voluntarily?
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No. It was only mentioned in movies back when good guys didn't drink alcohol of the screen.
I've never even tried it. It is fun to say though.
still not reading the thread, someone pointed to me off blog you might not know my email address is my name at gmail.com. I will be slow responding b/c I always have to go through all the mail of all the other Saheli s in the world who think they got my email address.
Don't have a cow, man.
If 89 is replying to 88, it's garbage and a fucking embarrassment (not that the bar was all that high in this thread to begin with). If it's just an idle funy joak... I just don't know. My handle is all over this place and I feel I should say something to all the silent readers, something like: I can see why you don't engage, even if you have brilliant things you could say and share, and who could blame you? I don't blame you one bit. I'm sorry, especially if 89 was Moby because I know you don't mean harm, but this pissed me the fuck off.
Oops, 89 is replying to the general OP and not at all to 88 but was typically Bart-like in its heedlessness in failing to take into account the immediate surrounding context not even having read the preceding ten or twenty comments before posting it. Sincerely sorry and embarrassed about that.
Also not Moby, again sorry.
Wasn't me. I don't know enough to have gotten the "Gau Raksha." I think I used to be about half of the "Opinionated", but I've been cutting back. Whoever does "OPINIONATED" is someone else.
Apparently, my memory is going away, since "Gau Raksha" is in the OP, which I did read even if I didn't get to the links.
You're sincerely forgiven, OGRBS, in part because I saw your comment in the sidebar and for a second thought you were just posting "Don't have a cow, man" again at me, and THAT made me laugh.
All good, Moby! Thanks for always dealing with my quasi-feline sensitivity (in other threads) so graciously.
I mean, I sometimes mean harm. Not very often lately.