Two updates this morning:
* Ronna McDaniel also positive (Air Force One passenger)
* Trump experiencing "mild symptoms"
I nodded at most of this post: https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/10/a-very-special-episode-of-america-the-trump-years
My initial reaction to the news was, "wow, this is really happening." But I'm now feeling a lot of uncertainty about what this will actually mean.
I laughed my fucking ass off when I saw the news this morning.
I'm disappointed so many are jumping to "is it a hoax for sympathy/disruption". He's too fixated on health equaling genes equaling worth. I guess a tiny conspiracy could give him a false diagnosis without his knowledge, but just him alone, not all these other people in the orbit.
But if he dies QAnon will 100% take over the Republican Party.
I disagree with the opening line, that there's any possibility this is a hoax. There's no possibility that this is a hoax. Trump is not capable of deviating from his own playbook, and his playbook is that he has the greatest health in the world.
But if he dies QAnon will 100% take over the Republican Party.
Biscuit conditional.
It's not a hoax, they tried to hide it from the public that Hope Hicks had it and when a reporter discovered that it led to this.
It's good reporting, but he was already in her nose for other reasons.
I'm disappointed so many are jumping to "is it a hoax for sympathy/disruption". He's too fixated on health equaling genes equaling worth.
I appreciate everyone's confidence that this isn't a hoax. I think it's very unlikely (and, perhaps, shouldn't have brought up the question), but I don't think it's impossible.
One of the things that I occasionally think about is that Trump is a noted germophobe which means that, in private, he doesn't believe in "health equaling genes." His performance of feeling invulnerability is a performance.
But, yes, it is very unlikely.
Trump is an outrageous liar, and he has a shrewd animal cunning, but he's not imaginative enough to make up a lie like this. He's got it. There is no other possibility.
Trump's lies are aimed at two types of people*: Idiots who will believe anything, and people who admire liars.
Can anyone in the Unfoggetariat cite a lie by Trump that even momentarily had them fooled?
*These two types aren't mutually exclusive.
He's not lying, unless he really is dying of dick rot. He's been trying to shift the news away from covid because that's what he needs to do to win the election.
Okay, I'm convinced, it's real -- it would piss off too many important Republicans (thought prompted by this tweet: https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1312046368660377600 ).
There is a remedy for the affliction of depravity, but the patient has first to admit that what he thinks is strength and profit is his disease.
Can anyone in the Unfoggetariat cite a lie by Trump that even momentarily had them fooled?
Yes -- before Bob Woodward released his tapes I thought there was a good chance that Trump was just ignoring all the medical advice, and not paying attention -- rather than paying attention and lying about it.
But, again, I'm convinced that he actually has COVID.
Can anyone in the Unfoggetariat cite a lie by Trump that even momentarily had them fooled?
That he believed what he was selling. I didn't think he was capable of being duplicitous at this stage in his mental decline - I thought he was just always courting himself, and that he was identical to his base. So when he laughed about deliberately downplaying Covid with Woodward I was a bit shocked.
(But I get that that's not what you're getting at.)
Bottom line: It's been an insanely stressful six months, and the next month is going to be really, really the worst, and I'm just going to enjoy the hell out of this one day as a respite.
It was a respite for like six seconds. Thanks.
14, 15:
14.last and 15.last suggest that it's probably not necessary for me to respond, but I will anyway, because I really think people have a hard time grasping what Trump is up to.
In the moment, you knew that Trump's statements were false, and you knew that Trump had access to better information than you did. But you thought that he might actually believe the bullshit that you knew he was spreading. You didn't believe his stated lie -- that coronavirus wasn't that big a deal. You believed the implicit lie -- that he believed what he was saying.
Well, if he had you fooled in that respect, he still has me fooled. I don't think he reckons with truth and falsehood the same way we do. On the meta-level that you are talking about, I think he was lying to Woodward -- or at least his statements to Woodward had no relationship to the actual truth. He was showing Woodward what a smart guy he was, and the access he had to inside information. He wasn't trying to convey something factual.
Remember: The falsehood about coronavirus -- that it isn't that big a deal -- is quite literally something Trump has staked his life on. Was he "lying" when he downplayed it? I don't think there's a yes-or-no answer to question that grapples with what Trump was actually doing.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/10/pandemonium-inside-white-house-as-trump-contracts-covid-19
He has at least a cough and a fever.
I was told the test would only include one guard who was always lying and one who always told the truth.
The guard who always tells the truth also likes big butts.
I am still watching to see if anyone besides Rona Barrett got it from Hicks. Not definite that Barrett got it from Hicks, she's had contact with lots of other people, including family who have tested positive I believe.
Again, the sources for the positive result so far are Trump and an MD who claims DJT is within 10 lbs of Colin Kaepernick's physique. I haven't gamed out the potential advantage. Cameras pointed at him nonstop while he eats hamburgers and avoids a debate, then great genes recovery in two weeks seems plausible to me, but what do I know. IMO the real questions are whether HH is actually sick; if so infected anyone else in her proximity.
I bet they haven't even washed the Republican buttplug.
IMO the real questions are whether HH is actually sick;
From the link in 23:
Meanwhile, Hicks has experienced more pronounced symptoms than the president. Two sources said she has had a high fever and a cough, with one source adding she lost her sense of smell. Hicks is said to be frustrated with Trump for taking such a cavalier approach to the virus. She was one of the few West Wing staffers to wear a mask in meetings, which her colleagues chided her for. "She was made fun of because she wore a mask," a friend said. Sources told me Hicks is also upset that news coverage has made it appear that she gave Trump the virus, when in fact no one knows where he got it. "It's so unfair she's sort of being blamed," the friend told me.
I am still watching to see if anyone besides Rona Barrett got it from Hicks.
This reminds me that, as we look at other world leaders who tested positive, Boris Yeltsin was hospitalized.
OK, that's dispositive. High fever's real.
Biden has tested negative. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2020/oct/02/donald-trump-tests-positive-coronavirus-covid-mike-pence-joe-biden-us-politics-live-latest-news#block-5f7754088f08abd321a6b0e9
But, as the article goes on to say, he and Dr Biden are not out of the woods yet - could take several days from infection to showing a detectable viral load.
It's still only a few days, though -- he's not out of the woods on a debate exposure until next week, right?
It takes a while before that means much.
Did they all get it from Judge Barrett?
Per 23.link, Hope Hicks has joined the Leopard-Eaten:
Meanwhile, Hicks has experienced more pronounced symptoms than the president. Two sources said she has had a high fever and a cough, with one source adding she lost her sense of smell. Hicks is said to be frustrated with Trump for taking such a cavalier approach to the virus. She was one of the few West Wing staffers to wear a mask in meetings, which her colleagues chided her for. "She was made fun of because she wore a mask," a friend said.
I expect we're going to see positive tests popping up repeatedly in the executive branch and RNC brass over the next few weeks.
President of Notre Dame who was at the SCOTUS announcement (and apparently criticized for not wearing a mask) is positive. Video form the event shows Mike Lee holding his mask in his hand while hugging and shaking hands with people.
I think there is a chance the Hicks got it from Trump...
Trump blames the big strong men who weep and call him sir for giving him COVID.
A nurse friend of mine who's Black but apparently has a lot of Trumpite acquaintances from his school days in Florida, and tries to address them semi-compassionately on social media video, had this comment:
To his supporters, I know you guys have this feeling that you may not understand and recognize... a feeling of worry and concern and possible sadness... this feeling is called empathy. Maybe a little new to y'all, but it's called empathy. Spread that shit around to people who don't look like you as well.
Am I still jinxed? Because I wanted to add that we are on the exact anniversary (101 years) of the stroke that put President Wilson on the disabled racist list for the rest of his term.
I wonder about Trump's "mild symptoms." One would think that if his symptoms were actually mild, he'd be denying any symptoms at all and calling Fox and Friends.
It doesn't matter at this point and I've said it too many times, but I don't think of Trump as lying exactly. In his mind, he's shaping the truth with the power of positive thought. When he said the virus won't turn out to be much, he's trying to create that truth by believing and speaking it. Works on people to a surprising degree (he's president!), don't work on reality. He cannot deviate from his position because that would prevent his willed truth from manifesting.
I had wondered if this somehow could play in Trump's favor -- particularly given the alleged sympathy bump that Boris Johnson got in the polls. I think Mathis-Lilley in Slate is persuasive in his debunking.
Finally, contrary to panicked claims on Twitter, U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson did not surge in popularity when he tested positive in March; Johnson enjoyed only a slight bump in his favorability, which was already high due to the same "rally around the flag" effect that temporarily boosted Trump, and has since fallen to a level even lower than the American president's.
Buried lede from Nptre Dame prez statement when he apologized earlier this week for not wearing a mask at the ceremony:
He says after White House gave guests COVID tests, "we were notified that we had all tested negative and were told that it was safe to remove our masks."
That fucker better not die before he loses.
I'd like him to linger weakly for the remainder of his term, with the will but not the energy to do all the fucked up things we've been fearing.
Weakly and unable to stop constantly shitting himself.
I don't think I have much to say about this other than that I am glad to be here to share everyone's happiness and joy. Let the good times roll.
I think he's faking it to get attention and to increase variance. The timing is pretty sus.
Reminds me of the fact that Cronyn is saying pre-existing conditions aren't a big deal. I'm hoping like crazy Biden and Hegar can win Texas.
Two new positives, one WH staffer, one WH journalist. Thanks helpy.
This spreadsheet tracking the White House outbreak is very useful.
Apparently being compiled by this guy at Middlebury.
57: That is helpful! I found out that Amy Coney Barrett had COVID this summer.
I hadn't even heard of her until last week.
And Mike Lee potentially exposed the entire Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday, about the time he started showing symptoms. Interesting times. I hope there's going to a big old plexiglass partition between Harris and Pence if the VP debate goes forward. Senior Republicans need to be treated as Typhoid Mary.
I know it's very implausible biologically, but the irony would be amazing if Barrett personally caused a cluster of COVID cases that ended up taking out enough GOP senators to prevent her from being confirmed. More plausible and almost as amazing if Trump does it.
Shouldn't have held that mask-optional conga line over RBG's grave apparently.
If I heard a rumour that the only drinking water available to White House staff is from a bucket with a common drinking ladle, would it be irresponsible to spread it?
I wonder if the author of 57 smirked when making red=positive and blue=negative.
The man is taking experimental treatments, apparently. And I don't mean the bleach.
62: It's now been reported that she had it over the summer.
So overall the situation is a plus for Biden, unless Trump dies before election day and Republicans can effectively vote for Pence: Same policies without the assholery. Also a guy who had not yet been the subject of any negative ads at all during the campaign. I wonder if the Biden media team and the Lincoln Project are getting those ads ready just in case.
Interestingly, short of death it is not really possible for Trump to drop out of the race after the ballots have been printed, an event that has already occurred most places. He can say he won't serve, but it won't be binding on the electors, most of whom are required to vote for whoever gets the most votes in their state. Even if he resigns from the current term he's eligible for re-election.
At this point I don't think Trump dying helps the ticket much - not much time for Pence to stake out an independent identity so everyone will just vote as though he's a continuation of Trump anyway.
Trump being hospitalized. One step closer to death. But aren't we all.
67: Yeah, that's what I meant by it being biologically implausible.
And they're still not mandating masks at the White House.
President Donald J. Trump (Deceased) is re-elected for his second term?
If Trump gave it to Biden and they both die, that will be a crisis, sure, but in an Olympian kind of way, it will also be hilarious.
One thing about the experimental treatment he supposedly received, who knows if he really took it or if they're trying to goose the stock price. Always be closing.
He's hospitalized.
I hope he suffers mightily, is somewhat incapacitated for the next month, loses in a landslide, and then dies.
I should have put some money on President Harris. We're playing call the pocket, not the shot, right?
He's going _to_ the hospital. I don't think it's said he'll be admitted yet.
Apparently this is pretty funny for old Soviet hands.
Maybe they will pump him full of Hydroxychloroquinine.
And zinc. Lots of zinc.
Pence would be drawing dead vs. Biden or Harris imo.
81: I can just remember the era, but I don't get the reference.
He hasn't tweeted since announcing a positive test 17 hours ago, and what that says to me is that he's really sick.
Anyone know who's actually on the RNC? Would the replacement be Pence or Jr.?
Pence would be drawing dead vs. Biden or Harris imo.
I wonder if we'll see any polls on this in a few days.
86: I've been watching that, too.
Interesting, a new VP has to be approved by both the Senate *and* the House.
The real treasure is the medical and scientific infrastructure that you've maligned along the way.
Just watched him on NBC walking to the helicopter to go to Walter Reed. He looked okay. He was wearing a mask.
94: Just released a brief video where I thought he looked a bit shaky. An 18-second video.
86 really is a good point Has he ever paused his tweeting without a really significant reason?
He hasn't ever paused it when he had good reason.
I feel a lot of
Orange Man Not wearing a Mask: Haha fuck yeah!!! Yes!!
Sick Orange Man: Well this fucking sucks. What the fuck.
energy.
Anyway, excepting any sympathy swinging, I think Pence would be further behind. Just look at all the GOP senators running 3 points behind Trump. I think the last two years have radicalized a whole lot of the suburban PMC whereas some of the WWC rural population that Trump has attracted aren't completely GOP converted
I don't see Pence winning over the 'I want the dominant primate' voter.
They shouldn't even be going for Trump:
https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/48914066862_342e69e043_o-e1571322816863.jpg?quality=75&strip=all&w=900&h=900&crop=1
So Kellyann Conway's daughter is now claiming that she (kellyann) has it.
So Kellyann Conway's daughter is now claiming that she (kellyann) has it.
Both adult Conways have now tweeted about it, but the daughter broke the news on tiktok where she's a star.
Too soon for an article to get to Pub Med Central.
Suburban private military contractors are a thing these days, I guess, and but it doesn't make sense in context.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_class#Professional-managerial_class
I don't think the median suburbanite (even white suburbanite) is professional/managerial?
Also: the more senators this hits, the more it's going to affect the Supreme Court confirmation...
Is there a Buzzfeed quiz so I can figure out what class I am?
Anyway, America is clearly falling apart because somebody sucker punched Rick Moranis at like 7:00 in the morning.
I'm assuming by evening he might have given them a reason.
Not wearing masks as a gesture of bravery strikes me as really pointless and I'm wondering if there's any way to replace it with something more entertaining, like all real men stick their dick in an occupied bee hive every morning.
My fear around Trump's possible death is that it dampens the motivation of some of the anti-Trump voters we need for all the down-ballot races. And I actually don't want him to die; I want him to get a really, really bad case with longterm health effects.
I needed a guilty pleasure-type read, so I downloaded the Melania and Me book to binge/hate read, and I'm actually glad I did. Lots of dirt that reveals everyone is every bit as evil as one might expect, and interpersonally horrible to everyone, and wow does the author (and, presumably, Melania) hate Ivanka.
Maugh
A. Maugh, to Laugh with no enthusiasm. Or to Sigh while laughing.
B. To Pathetically and Effortlessly Laugh at a comment, Joke or incident.
There is no cure for Ron Johnson, but with your generous support, people suffering from Ron Johnson can lead fulfilling lives if they can be fulfilled by being a tool.
I guess the death toll from the garden party for the Barrett nomination will probably lower than Reagan's "Bareback for Scalia" thing.
President Donald J. Trump (Deceased) is re-elected for his second term?
This reminds me that back when I was living in Pasadena there was an election for L.A. County sheriff where the incumbent died a few days before, but the election went ahead anyway.
I recall seeing a poster saying "Vote for the dead guy".
The (non-dead) winner ended up going to federal prison some years later.
The right answer, if he dies, is to follow the Carnahan script -- but, obviously, Ivanka rather than Melania.
While much about the death-before-election scenario is unclear, there seems to be a consensus that there's no time left for Republicans to replace the candidate uniformly nationwide because of ballot printing.
Would Republicans still carry the House on a state-by-state vote?
130 Republicans have the majority of the delegation in 26 states. Florida, Montana, Alaska (among others) only by 1. Pennsylvania is a tie. Michigan was a tie, and will be again, I suppose, when Amash is replaced by a Republican.
It sounds like they hid that Trump was ill for at least a day, and that he likely knew he had COVID before holding that rally in MN.
"I'm carrying a life-threatening illness, so I may as well go to New Jersey," seems both callous and apt.
Motherfucker's going to die from this and I really wish he'd hold on long enough to see hi sorry ass thoroughly defeated on November 3
Motherfucker's going to die from this and I really wish he'd hold on long enough to see hi sorry ass thoroughly defeated on November 3
I have a theory that says he'll be fine.
An election scholar explains what happens if Trump dies: https://schultzstake.blogspot.com/2020/10/covid-19-presidential-succession-and.html
139. Schulz's last paragraph, that if the President elect dies after the electoral college, the replacement goes to the House on the basis of one vote per state is another lovely piece of anti-democratic law. North Dakota gets one vote and so does California...
I don't think Trump will die; I feel like with good treatment the odds of survival are high.
It is remarkable that yesterday I was wondering (slightly) if this could be a hoax and by today it's clear that they are consistently understating the effects.
Between the mishmashes from doctors this morning and the chief of staff later, I feel like blow-by-blow characterizations of his status should be ignored unless they're really concrete (like, hypothetically, he's on a ventilator).
You know, it really is amazing how doggedly the vast majority of Biblical literalists will not see this in Biblical terms. God sent a goddamn plague. Then when people still supported Trump, he smote Trump specifically, or at least part-smote him. And furthermore, likely had a mass-smoting at a gathering for a controversial supreme court nominee. How can this not jump out at Evangelicals?
These two articles set up a pretty terrifying scenario: if Trump and Pence were to both die or be simultaneously incapacitated (which I'm not expecting -- Pence has been far more cautious and I'm sure that will continue x 1 million percent), succession could be unclear and Pompeo might have a plausible first claim on the presidency. Per the article, it's actually legally murky whether the Speaker is eligible to be president. This might be more commonly known amonst some of y'all, but it's the first I've heard of it. (Considering it separately from our current circumstances, I would say that it actually seems to make way more sense to have the succession go first to the Cabinet for a number of reasons.)
. . . there is a powerful (though not airtight) argument that the Succession Act's placement of the speaker in the line of presidential succession (and after her, the president pro tempore of the Senate) is contrary to the Constitution's Succession Clause. That clause states that only an "Officer" may succeed and act as president. Most of the pertinent commentary maintains that the term "Officer" here does not include members of Congress.
I'm not (yet) super worried about this, but 2020 makes it really easy to picture millions of people in the streets, including a lot of armed nutcases, and Pelosi and Pompeo giving conflicting orders to the military.
Given the current makeup of the executive branch, it's not hard to imagine a scenario in which Secretary of State Mike Pompeo might, with the help of an aggressive attorney general, William Barr, challenge any attempt by Nancy Pelosi to ascend to the presidency if both Trump and Pence are incapacitated by Covid-19--perhaps even preemptively putting out a legal opinion that Pompeo is legally next in line for the acting presidency.
Could Nancy Pelosi assume the acting presidency and fire Barr to get her own contrary legal opinion? Would Barr treat such an order as legitimate? Would the Supreme Court weigh in? How those questions would be answered would almost certainly hinge less on actual legal fights and more on vague public sentiments--questions such as whether the president or vice president looks likely to recover.
And Vermont gets as many as Texas. But yes, the anti-democratic nature starts with the name of the country and goes from there. It's certainly theoretically possible to create a better system. Whether a better system is politically possible from our current configuration is something else entirely. The 14th and 17th amendments were somewhat radical -- the former much more than the latter, although that's more of a stealth effect, I think, than intentionality. Changing to a nationwide popular vote, and federally non-partisan operated elections, gores a bunch of oxen. Oxen owned by people with a blocking position.
The goal, then, is and has to be swamping the polls everywhere in every race. Win a house seat in Florida and another in Pennsylvania. Alaska and Montana.
How can this not jump out at Evangelicals?
They get you coming and going. If he dies, he's the messiah.
144 Yeah, the debate about reaching into another branch for succession has been controversial from the start. It looks from the wiki article that one of the main drivers for going this way at the outset was Federalists' fervent desire to make sure Thomas Jefferson wasn't 3rd in line after Washington and Adams.
If he does end up dying how long will it take between him dying and an official announcement? A day? More? If he ends up brain dead will they try to keep it secret through the election?
Saisalgy snark: https://mobile.twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1312526529386041344
"I'm told the President is feeling well, and is being held incommunicado at the hospital for reasons *unrelated* to not feeling well, and he's perfectly capable of discharging all the duties of his office just not up for communicating directly with the public or anyone credible."
This is the nightmare scenario that's been playing in my head.
Biden tests positive for Covid, and starts to show symptoms and goes in the hospital. So both candidates are in the hospital and it seems like it's less like an election than a question of survival. The Biden camp is open about his declining condition, while the Trump camp continues to claim that Trump is doing fine, even he remains in the hospital. Rumors are flying that he is on a ventilator that he is near death or even already dead. Then just when even the least skeptical reports are openly disbelieving Trump's doctors, Trump announces his triumphant return. Biden dies, and Trump manages to squeak out an electoral college victory on the strength of merely being alive.
Later a tape leaks out of Trump bragging, "Yeah, I had it all planned out. I would get COVID and than I would give it to Joe. I knew I could beat it and he wouldn't . I knew my genes were better."
151 is very bonkers and you should not worry your pretty little head about that particular horror.
Can we confidently say that Trump's case has enough symptoms that he won't be 100% in two weeks? I have to imagine recovery drags out with age. Like, he's going to be fatigued and low energy for the next month, is that guaranteed?
If he ends up brain dead will they try to keep it secret through the election?
A brain-dead Trump does in-person rallies.
It's hard to say anything confidently, like maybe his symptoms aren't that serious but he panicked. But it does seem like most old people with serious cases take several weeks at least to recover.
The notorious germophobe who catches the virus when the entire apparatus of the federal government is there to protect him. It's amazing how bad he is at every single thing, except that he's also history's most successful con-man.
I think he's going to be fine.
There was always quite a bit of chance he was going to be fine.
He has THE best medical care.
He sounds and looks fine now. (Just watched second video).
They're probably all going to be fine. And they'll be even more insufferable when they're better.
We should all just get used to that and keep our eyes on the prize.
It's amazing how bad he is at every single thing, except that he's also history's most successful con-man.
Even that was a fuck-up. He never planned to win.
One of the many sins this administration has to answer for is that I no longer trust the most basic communication from the White House. I saw the second video. I also saw a slew of commentary highlighting why it might have been filmed yesterday, before he left for Walter Reed.
I have no idea if that's true or not. I'm just furious that they've put us in a situation where we have no idea when they might be telling the truth, and instead have to live as though everything could be a lie at all times.
Scholars of authoritarianism have been saying this for five years; it's not new news. But it's newly egregious given his illness. Dick Cheyney's doctor gave a lengthy interview eviscerating the tap-dancing done by Trump's doctors.
And I'm pretty mad at the members of the media who uncritically reprint stupid things without context or analysis. Hope Hicks quarantined on Air Force One on the way home? How on God's green earth do you quarantine on an AIRPLANE that recirculates its air?!
Cheyney s/b Cheney. I defaulted to being Philadelphian.
How on God's green earth do you quarantine on an AIRPLANE that recirculates its air?!
I got to think Air Force One has a pretty good air filtration system, no? Its probably a bit better than the kind they use on, like, Frontier Airlines.
It's true they're impossible to trust. But I just don't think they're smart enough to do something like that.
I dunno. Somehow my gut says he's fine and to just move on and focus on voting him and the Senators out and then fighting his attempts to hold on and then dealing with the shit pile he's created and the shit pile that was always there.
For today I'm thinking that 2020 is the year of the obvious (and then being surprised by the obvious). Obvious frontrunners Biden and Harris became the candidates. Obvious that we're due for huge wildfires. Obvious that a bunch of people who flout COVID precaution will get COVID. So I'm going to go with the obvious. People go to the hospital when they're really sick. So he's likely really sick.
Mostly I'm just grateful for anything that occupies his time. Anything that keeps him too busy to sabotage the election is a win. I had proposed impeaching him again, but this is a lot more fun.
Sceptical (conspiracy) scenario: the orange one only has a cold or a very mild case, and has been put in hospital to try to save the campaign. He will not now appear in any more debates, and may pick up some sympathy votes. Side benefit: the Democrats go easier on him.
In this scenario, the CoS is mostly lying and the doctors are mostly telling the truth.
167 doesn't fit with a number of observable facts, including his belittling Biden for mask-wearing, a large number of GOP positive cases, the fact that the Hope Hicks positive test was concealed, and an inability to use Twitter in his usual way while at the hospital.
Just out of curiousity, what would y'all's reaction have been if I had been killed by a stray bullet last week when the cops decided to play "OK Corral" 20 feet and one wall away from me?
171. Yes obviously horror and sadness and fury. But you didn't mention it at the time. What happened?
171: Is that just a rhetorical way to bring up you were in a scary situation? I would have been fucking angry. Do you feel like people here wouldn't care if something bad happened to you?
I finally got around to watching "Joker", and I feel like it would have been a good warm-up for 2020 -- things slowly spiral into chaos, and it's not clear what it all means, or where it's headed.
From all the articles now about how bad the White House precautions have been and still are, it's a bit of a miracle he wasn't infected before now.
Just sadness from me. I appreciate seeing you here.
171: Yeah, Natilo, what's going on?
I got to think Air Force One has a pretty good air filtration system, no? Its probably a bit better than the kind they use on, like, Frontier Airlines.
I got to think Air Force One has a pretty good air filtration system, no? Its probably a bit better than the kind they use on, like, Frontier Airlines.
I'm perfectly willing to believe that Air Force One has better air filtration than other airplanes. I'm not willing to believe it's good enough to count as "quarantine" for someone who is just coming down with the virus (i.e., likely at the point where they're most contagious).
If we had a competent administration, I would believe they had further upgraded the filtration system at some point since March, knowing that we're now in the midst of a pandemic and the President's plane is a source of vulnerability. But we don't have a competent administration. The Rose Garden event photos alone would tell us that even if we didn't have 7+ months of other damning evidence.
Natilo, I'm relieved you are here with us and hope you will be healthy and safe for many years to come.
Best wishes, Natilo. I'd be fucking outraged.
171: Holy shit, that's terrifying. What the hell happened?
Natilo, I'd be horrified and pretty angry. What happened?
Dumb question: Is being on oxygen the same treatment as being on a ventilator? or does a ventilator imply some sort of assisted pumping and being on oxygen is just breathing air with a higher percent oxygen, on your own lungpower?
Not the same. Supplemental oxygen is delivered via a mask or nasal canula and you can be awake and alert. Being on a ventilator is way more drastic. You're put under and intubated and the machine breathes for you.
185: The latter. Think of the folks wheeling around oxygen tanks with the tubes under their noses. Ventilators require (full?) sedation.
And really, a fucking PARADE?!
Dexamethasone, though, is supposed to be given at the later stages when you are worried about the body's inflammatory response, so that is not a good sign for the Prez.
Picture President Skroob and his cans of perri-air.
He was given a shit-ton* of antiviral antibodies which could also cause inflammation so they might have wanted to use dex to keep that under control. Basically we have no idea what to expect because literally no one has ever taken the combination** of drugs he's on- Regeneron mAbs, remdesivir, dexamethasone, famotidine, zinc, vitamin D, plus statins and whatever else he was already on. That's also why they're monitoring liver function- known side effects of some of these drugs and where you'd see first trouble if there was some drug-drug interaction.
*8 g of a purified protein is an enormous amount. I've ordered antibodies for diagnostic tests, which are obviously going to be used in much lower amounts than therapeutics, but 100mg is a year's supply for that purpose. Other therapeutic antibody doses are in the tens to low hundreds of mgs.
**Because the mAbs and until recently others are in trials the protocols for what else you can be taking are well defined and pretty sure they haven't been used in this combination.
Sometimes, when I was six years old, I found being driven around for a car ride calming, too.
190: it seems like they're throwing the kitchen sink at him which could be causing more harm than good.
Indeed, it's a fairly common phenomenon when treating celebrities.
I'm no medical professional, far from it. But as I understand it:
Being on a ventilator = being on life support, basically (I mean, you're hooked up to a machine that is doing the breathing for you...).
Receiving oxygen is a treatment that might have to do with a longer-term problem, but that might just address a shorter-term condition or contingency.
One of my kids was put on oxygen once for croup. Not a big deal. Being on a ventilator with a breathing tube fucks you up- you have to be sedated so you don't gag on the hose, and it causes abrasions that cause lasting issues. Trump wouldn't have been able to make his hostage videos (even the one where they edited out a cough) if he'd been intubated. There's an intermediate level of ventilation where they're just applying suck and blow to a mask on your face so that's less invasive- I suppose he could have had that with the oxygen but probably it was just the tube mounted on the nose.
190: The mass dose was jaw-dropping, but apparently in accordance with the high dose arm of Regeneron's clinical trial. I looked at a few other mAbs (since yeah, it's about 20x higher than I'd imagine as an extremely high dose), and Lily's COVID-19 candidate is 7 g high dose/2.8 g medium dose. Highly selective, low tox/off-target, I guess you might as well go big.
I'm still trying to make heads or tails of the timeline being presented. Diagnosed Thursday, needing oxygen Friday, hospitalized Saturday? When he takes tests probably daily? Seems awfully fast. I know the tests aren't accurate for folks who aren't displaying symptoms, but this is bugging me. It seems obvious they didn't want to disclose and went about business as usual, but I'm awfully curious.
You're not just assuming that he was actually diagnosed on Wednesday, or even earlier?
It's kind of wild to realize that if someone hadn't broken the story about Hicks being positive, they probably wouldn't have disclosed that Trump is infected.
And really, a fucking PARADE?!
Here's a tweet i liked from James Fallows:
Crass point, from perspective as former WH staffer:
If you want to signal "I am strong!" you walk out to the microphones, in the open air and under your own power, and answer questions.
Rather than being driven around and giving Queen Mother-style waves.
Hey all, I got drunk enough to roll by this place like one would drunk-text an ex, and just wanted to say that (despite some very profund political disagreements!) I am extremely fond of Natilo and want him to survive un-shot by the police or anyone else for a long time. Stay well!!
Now time to ghost this place just like I've ghosted many an ex.
196: I've been wondering if the extreme treatment is because he's really sick or if it's because he just demands the most of the latest high tech everything, no matter what is happening to him.
Great concern for the situation it sounds like you were in, Natilo. It sucks & is more reason to reject incrementalism in police reform.
Possibly the best person to get drive-by close readings of the doctors' statements from.
The part about the chest scan is possible evidence against 203, in particular.
Halford! You made me care about Meghan Markle, you rotten bastard. You were just so enthused when she got married that I found it contagious. So now I end up offended by the news about the British royal family, when before I could just be completely indifferent.
171: whatever our arguments in the past, Natilo, I'm glad to hear you haven't been even slightly shot. Apart from anything else, it would be against the prophecy.
I don't remember writing those at all. Maybe they really are oracular.
198: Average time from symptom onset (where tests would work best) to shortness of breath/needing oxygen is 5-8 days. Maybe he's just in such awful shape it happened much more quickly than average (1-2 days?), but it seems plausible that he walked around infecting people a lot longer than they want to let on.
The next big scandal is probably the revelation that he had a positive test before the debate but hid it because it would look bad to pull out at the last minute (something I'm sure he's never done in other circumstances.) Either that or he wasn't actually getting tested every day as he claimed.
171: Well, natilo, while I would certainly be very sad if anything bad happened to you, I would refrain from making any judgments until I heard from the Minneapolis Police Department and gswift.
199: I don't think Hope Hick's positive test would have made any difference at all. It seems to me the only thing that would have forced Trump to admit to having COVID was that he was experiencing symptoms that were impossible to hide.
Very disconcerting, Natilo, to hear about what sounds like a close call. That can't have been pleasant. Stay safe.
Sending good thoughts your way, Natilo. But 212 made me laugh.
I likewise got a chuckle out of 212. Stay safe, Natilo. When they do finally come after you, don't expect sympathetic treatment from the media, but the Unfoggetariat will be in your corner.
It seems to me the only thing that would have forced Trump to admit to having COVID was that he was experiencing symptoms that were impossible to hide.
I think he announced it because the threat of the hospital became involved. Either they were gearing up to go when he sent the tweet, or the doctors told him that his choice was either to go to the hospital at 1 am Friday morning, or wait until daytime, and he chose wait plus tweet. But I assume he felt cornered in some way into making the announcement.
I can't be the first to say this, but the timeline still doesn't make sense, or else the announcements about his treatment and condition are even less reliable than we thought.
"He's on oxygen! Is he on oxygen? Are his lungs failing?" - what about the issue that being on oxygen 3 days after first detection of the virus, for someone tested daily, should not even be a question? That would be an incredibly fast course of disease. Maybe he just demanded to have oxygen available.
"He's on remdesivir, and also antibody treatment, and also dexamethasone" - Dexamethasone will only be useful during the later period of disease when the symptoms are being caused by the immune system, not the virus itself. Again this should be at least a week after the virus first becomes detectable, after the virus has already peaked and been largely eliminated. Remdesivir and the antibody treatment would be useful to control the virus itself.
"He was just diagnosed and now he's in the hospital". Again this would make sense for a normal person but not someone being tested frequently, where you should be able to detect the virus itself before it's making you extremely sick. On the other hand, if I was the President and not doing any actual work, and there was a special hospital suite for my use only, I'd probably go there as soon as possible, if only to put myself in isolation and not infect any more people.
I think it's very possible he had the virus a week before the hospital trip. The course of disease has been way too fast!
I think they were just lying about testing him frequently. He's probably had it since at least last Saturday, but may not have tested until Wednesday or Thursday.
Hope Hicks is the real victim here. Apparently she's one of the people who were being made fun of for wearing a mask. Then she got the virus from all the people not wearing one.
This the situation those of us saying "Wearing a mask won't protect you. You can't just go through your normal life, plus wearing a mask. People WITH the virus should wear a mask, but they should actually just stay home." in March were envisioning.
I think "they're covering up an earlier diagnosis" and "they're aggressively overtreating because he's an interventiphile and they know they'd be faulted more for doing nothing even if that were better indicated" both explain a lot of what we're seeing, and could be simultaneously true.
I think I prefer Trump when he's having a manic episode brought on by heroic doses of corticosteroids. Perhaps it's the same sort of thing as when Stormy observed he was perfectly reasonable, once she'd beaten his naked buttocks with a rolled-up copy of Fortune with his face on the cover.
As an ex-employee, I am compelled to note that the magazine is properly referred to as FORTUNE, in allcaps.
Hope Hicks is the real victim here.
Meh. I mean, I take your point, and she may be microscopically less culpable than the rest, but she made a career decision to help Trump mislead the country about coronavirus, and fell victim to that. I am trying, and failing, to think of some possible result for her that she hasn't earned.
I think they were just lying about testing him frequently. He's probably had it since at least last Saturday, but may not have tested until Wednesday or Thursday.
This seems like the OBVIOUS conclusion but the political reporters seem to be unaware. It's all about the usual value judgments like "Wasn't it wrong to drive around in a hermetically sealed car?" "Wasn't it wrong to host that big ceremony?" instead of nailing things down until they make sense. There's even been discussion about whether "72 hours" means 72 hours, or a vague period of 3 days that may be from the end of day 0 until the beginning of day 3. What about the issue that even 72 hours is implausibly short if you compare it to other facts?
And speaking of media failures, they are treating Sean Conley as a credible source of information about the president, when he is plainly just another administration bullshit artist. I googled around to support my vague recollection on this, and the NYT did apparently outline his checkered history.
Highlights:
-He was rejected for the top VA position because of "accusations of inappropriate workplace behavior." Overprescribing opiates is prominent among the accusations (which the NYT doesn't mention in the current story, but did previously. There were also complaints of drunkenness - including a wrecked government car - and "hostile workplace environment."
-He promoted Trump's use of hydroxychloroquine.
-He is running for a House seat in Texas.
In short: Not a guy you'd trust to tell the truth about anything, particularly about Trump.
Political reporters are used to working in an environment where the people talking to them don't know much, and are often under orders to mislead or lie about what they do know. I can't fault them for failing to push when the information is not going to come out. I think they've done a credible job of showing that they are not getting a straight story from the WH -- but the audience for that sort of thing is a lot smaller than for the stupid Queen Mother visual.
According to sources, Don Jr. has told friends that he tried lobbying Ivanka Trump, Eric Trump, and Jared Kushner to convince the president that he needs to stop acting unstable. "Don Jr. has said he wants to stage an intervention, but Jared and Ivanka keep telling Trump how great he's doing," a source said. Don Jr. is said to be reluctant to confront his father alone. "Don said, 'I'm not going to be the only one to tell him he's acting crazy,'" the source added.
Either that or he wasn't actually getting tested every day as he claimed.
This seems overwhelmingly likely to me.
Has anyone heard from Natilo? Natilo, if you ever feel like finding me in the other place please do.
229: the drug pushing, drunken driving, and Texan election campaign are Ronny Jackson (the guy who fixed Trump's physical), not Conley.
231: That's Gabriel Sherman in Vanity Fair. It's an access journalism story of a familiar sort: Don Jr., like political aides from time immemorial, wants to be able to say that he anticipated the fuckups and they're not his fault.
234: Oops. Quite right! Thanks.
235: Yeah, all CYA kremlin drama, but I think it's notable if Don, Jr. of all people thinks it's the less damaging route to be known to be saying Trump is acting crazy.
It's kind of counter-intuitive to me, but I think he's right to want to put it on the record that he didn't have the guts to confront his father. There's a kind of Republican ethos at work here: "I knew he was fucking nuts, but obviously, you can't expect me to stand up for principle myself."
Cryptic ned: YES. I mean, I guess I'm following more closely than most people about symptoms and timelines for COVID, but how has nobody tipped them off? All the timelines I see start on Wednesday.
218: I think one also has to include the possibility that he had a positive test due to regular testing and felt fine at first, and decided to ignore it/not publicize it ahead of the debates. Then when it was clear he needed the hospital they just lied about the timing. One alternative: they're using cheap tests that don't work well, and didn't get confirmation until a repeat test on Friday when he was feeling ill.
That's another thing. If you're using cheap tests that don't work very well, then if you get an unexpected positive you dont just say "that's probably a false positive; make a note of it", you do a repeat immediately to confirm it! The w hi ole reason for the cheaper tests is that they're fast.
241: I'm thinking more cheap test produces a false negative, and no one is incentivized to push Trump to take another test. Hard to see how that squares with daily testing, and typically the most direct course with this administration is to assume they're lying.
It honestly hadn't occurred to me that they'd have been lying about him getting tested daily, but now it's obviously true. Of course he would not be getting a giant swab rammed up his nose daily for the first few months, until the cheek swabs became available, and of course then he's not going to capitulate and say "thank god I can easily get a daily cheek swab!" No, he's not going to get tested unless forced in some way, like an exposure.
So, no indication Trump is getting a sympathy bump in the polls. That's good at least.
But - YouGov did a poll where they asked how people would vote if one or more candidate was incapacitated and replaced with their running mate. Perhaps an indicator of how unique-to-Trump the current bad GOP numbers are. For likely voters it broke down as:
Biden-Trump: 48-40 (1 other, 6 undecided, 6 will not vote)
Biden-Pence: 47-41 (7 undecided, 4 would not vote)
Harris-Pence: 46-45 (7 not sure, 2 would not vote)
I guess that's good that it barely changes when it's just swapping Pence for Trump. But that so many wouldn't vote for Harris is still frustrating, if in familiar ways. (They don't seem to have polled Harris-Trump, the least likely of already unlikely scenarios, but it would be interesting.)
243 I got tested in early July and then again last week. First one was throat, but the one last week was way up the nose. With some scoffing, by the nurse, about doing it any other way.
Unclear how much of the Harris numbers are name recognition. The VP debate hasn't even happened and she hasn't been on the national stage very long.
Yeah, they haven't been testing him every day. They were rightly scared about what a positive test would do to his prospects, and, apparently, unable to get him to avoid risky behavior.
I think the Queen-Mother motorcade will only deflate any sympathy bump for anyone not already all the way in the cult.
246: True, but if it were primarily name recognition wouldn't you expect the number of undecided voters to increase significantly? And there seems to be a 4% contingent that will vote only if Trump drops out - Nevertrumpers or something like it?
My son asked me today who "Harris" was, which probably means I'm a bad parent because he didn't know but also suggests the campaign is doing limited outreach toward kids who watch a lot of Minecraft on YouTube.
I mean, he sure as shit knows who Elizabeth Warren is but I really never bothered to fill him in on the centrists.
Harris is that lefttube Twitch streamer.
245. I've been tested twice and both times they took swabs from both nose and throat. I'm not sure what the logic is behind doing that, maybe just belt and braces.
Excel strikes again! Funny in a grim, gallows-humor sort of way, but it's not like the US is doing noticeably better with data management on this thing.
Our company is offering DIY kits they'll send to your home if you have a reason to test- travel, symptoms, exposure, contact tracing. I have to assume they're cheek swabs and they don't expect you to jab your own brain.
I'm also hoping that Natilo is okay, and concerned about what happened. Hopefully you're okay.
Certainly it is possible that Trump lied about being tested every day. He would lie about anything. I am surprised no one has voiced a darker possibility though. He could be getting tested every day. He could have been positive a week ago. He could have told anyone and everyone who unavoidably knew that they weren't allowed to tell anyone. He could have lied about being positive to all the people he was infecting. Not only will he lie about anything, but he also doesn't care about anyone but himself.
A lot of people hate Trump and hope he dies, but my interest in his death is more high-minded. I'm genuinely curious about how his cult would react. There are interesting sociological studies to be done ...
So now he's chosen to dispel the speculation about whether he knowingly exposed people earlier after a nondisclosed positive test, by unambiguously exposing his staff live on national TV.
Daughter Conway is on twitter saying that he is not actually better
I literally-literally expect her to be forcibly contained at some sort of angry juvenile institution, any day now. So we've definitely reached the part of the book where a plucky teenager figures out how to save the day
(she's on TikTok. But twitter is talking about her a lot. I am astonished that she still has a phone.)
It's really hard to keep a kid of a screen. Sometimes you just get tired of playing enforcer.
God, I'd love it if a plucky teenager saved the day. I totally up for being in their cheering crowd.
Trump looks less orange now. Bad CGI?
266: No one wants to do his make up. And seriously, can you imagine contracting Covid and maybe dying just to be the person who paints his face orange.
Didn't some grounded kid tweet from the refrigerator?
I seriously think an involuntary psych hold is a potential reaction
I am spellbound by the Truman balcony thing tonight. Everyone thinks he's trying to convey that Covid isn't a big deal, but I don't think that's exactly it. I think Trump knows he feels like shit and, in his narcissism, wants people to understand that he feels like shit -- but that he can nonetheless put on a show of strength, because that's just how strong he is.
If he'd been trying to fake a lack of symptoms, he would have smiled and waved rather than offering somber salutes. My guess is that the point of this exercise was to show how bad he feels, not how good.
I might buy that if it were posted from a major appliance.
What are the odds that Trump tested positive before the debate which is why they arrived to late to test on site but went on with it anyway, perhaps in hopes of infecting Biden? It would be irresponsible not to speculate.
269 You should know better by now than to project human emotion onto Trump.
My wife despondently believes that T having had COVID and quickly recovering is the worst possible outcome, so of course it happened. Now he can claim strength and experience and that it's not a big deal, all at once, and enough of America will buy it. I don't really think that's true, but I'm not sure how to convince her, either.
I think he's hopped up on whatever they could give him any will crash in a couple of days.
He's not out of the woods yet.
Poll porn today, CNN has Trump 41-Biden 57. Probably an outlier- Averages say it's currently Biden +9 or so- but Biden +16 means Trump gets about 100 EVs and Dems take 56 or 57 Senate seats.
I entirely believe 275. I assume it's the steroids. There's no way he's not got some significant fatigue underlying this all.
Sure, that seems totally likely, but also like it'll be enough if it persists for more than another few days.
so of course it happened
I don't know anything, of course, but my best guess is that this is really, really wrong. I think I'm on firmer ground when I say that we won't know for a week or so how bad* this is going to be. But all of the signs so far are grim.**
He's been on oxygen. He's been hospitalized. He's made some medication choices that are either 1.) really dubious or 2.) indicative of severe disease. (I'm betting on 1 here.)
But look at the dog that didn't bark yesterday. Dr. Conley answered questions right up until he was asked about the president's lung scans. He declined to answer "for his safety and his own health and reasons." He literally said that: Because reasons.
One thing we know for absolute sure: The fucker isn't asymptomatic.
*By "bad," I mean "good."
**By "grim," I mean "awesome."
People talk about Trump's mild obesity. The claim is that he is 6'3" and 243 pounds, which indeed describes mild obesity. But surely the guy is at least 260.
The other variable is of course if people around him keep getting sick. Useful chart: https://twitter.com/mugecevik/status/1308080067998822401
If he's got no muscle, he could be large and light.
There's no way Trump is 6'3". Obama is 6'1" and he's taller than Trump.
Trump is counting himself in heels.
Yeah, judging by seeing him beside Jeb Bush and Jared Kushner (both 6'3"), Trump is *at best* 6'1" and probably closer to 6' even. And look, I've been 225# at 6'0" (though down to 185 now [!]) and there's no goddamned way he isn't pushing his way toward 300.
That's thin. I'm a bit over that and quite a bit shorter.
286: If he's got no muscle, he could be large and light.
I'm so hungry but I don't want to eat anything but candy corn.
282: Maybe! And Barry's right that he could be lying about his height. Here's what the guy looks like.
Joe is a trim 6'0". I don't think this picture from the debate settles anything, but I'd guess Trump is a bit taller.
You can find a lot of pictures of Melania -- who is 5'11" -- looking just a little shorter than Don. But I suspect that's a result of heels. Here's a shot that makes their stated heights look like their actual heights.
He's standing on the same box Tom Cruise uses for shooting movies with tall actresses.
Now Claudia Conway says her mother is threatening to call CPS. Somebody send a few antifa over to rescue her & put her in a safe house.
It isn't actually amusing- she's obviously in a pretty bad state, in all sorts of senses. But she also is a lone peephole to see what's happening behind scenes.
Hope she doesn't get Covid on top of everything.
Impressive level of parental dysfunction that (she says) her mother directly lied to her saying she had tested negative.
Jeb Bush is 6'3". Note the picture at the top.
Turns out Michelle is also purportedly 5'11". If you browse these photos and take into account Trump's fluffed hair, Don and Barack sure do look like the same height.
Donald needs to be careful in case he runs into any Latvian women.
So at 6'3", the lower limit of obesity is 240. But at 6'1", the lower limit is 227.5.
Even at 6'1", I'm not sure I'm willing to buy into Trump being 243, but it seems more plausible.
Time Tebow is 6'3", 245. Not *that* plausible.
He sucked so bad at football, they made him go play for the Mets.
Something like this got linked here once before. If we assume Trump is 6'1", I think you can find him somewhere in the neighborhood of 270 pounds.
And here is 6'3" and 240 pounds
As Moby notes, fat is lighter than muscle, and Trump seems to be all flab.
I had a COVID test when I was admitted to the ER a couple of months back. Compared to the crippling pain of the acute gallstone pancreatitis, it was nothing, but it was a very uncomfortable several seconds and it occurred to me to ruminate, "There's no way Trump submits to this every day. None."
Maybe if somebody knows how to do the test, it doesn't hurt? I haven't had anything up my nose except my own fingers, but for blood draws, I have noticed that it really doesn't hurt at all when they have a good phlebotomist.
302: There are rapid antigen tests which are not as invasive. They are slightly less sensitive, but they're useful for screening asymptomatic. If you test every day, you pick it up the next day when someone is just getting sick, and you don't pick up the dead RNA for someone who is recovered and no longer infectious. There's also the non-rapid saliva test that the NBA was using.
My free county test was barely uncomfortable - it felt like it went to the back of the nasal cavity, but no further, unless I have no nerves in that further-back cavity or something.
Given the wide range of tests out there, I bet the White House had first dibs on whichever was least uncomfortable.
(And my test was viral, not antigen.)
There's a whole website dedicated to answering these kinds of questions: https://www.celebheights.com/s/Donald-Trump-126.html
They seem pretty happy with peak height close to 6'2" and current height just over 6'.
I guess I'm going to go with the hospital was being extremely thorough on account of their butts were riding on the outcome then.
274: Counterevidence is his polling among seniors continuing to crater in multiple polls. I feel like that's a group that's going to be less disposed to think "this shows he's a genetic superman" and more likely to react "he dodged a bullet and he's now he's dismissing our danger even more than before."
Oh ho, the Joint Chiefs are all self-isolating after the no.2 in the Coast Guard tested positive: https://twitter.com/KFaulders/status/1313522445731745792
My 281 refers. While the White House cluster outbreak continues, there's no way he can project anything other than utter chaos.
310: Yeah, post-debate polling is swinging Biden's way by a percentage point or so, and that increase doesn't seem to be interrupted even when some of the polling is done post-Covid.
Huh. And now he seems to be cutting off negotiations over a relief package. This isn't going to help the stock market, or any of the 'forgotten' people. Is he trying to lose?
When Hitler realized he was going to lose, he began to openly try to destroy Germany.
I think it's literally "If I can't have it, no one can."
313: Is a Hail Mary pass the appropriate sports metaphor? Shooting the moon? Or maybe it reminds me of a scene from a mafia movie? Republicans still want Trump to win for the usual reasons (Supreme Court, tax cuts for the rich, etc.). Trump is making it more and more clear that the only way to do so is by sabotaging democracy. So far they're okay with it. He's forcing them get their hands dirtier and dirtier in the process. Among other things this makes it less likely that they'll turn on him later.
or a bribe? "if you vote for me, you'll get this relief package"
Biden can offer a better one and then they can have a bidding war in the middle of the electio
313/316. He's announced that he was happier before he was President (Who wasn't?),, so he may be looking for an out. That is, not wanting to go to the mat if the election is close. That would be consistent with trying to lose but coming near enough to say, "I would have won if they'd checked every ballot."
Trump lives and Eddie Van Halen doesn't.
Sarah Kendior wrote a really good/despair-inducing book (Hiding in Plain Sightabout her Trump-related research starting in the 80s or 90s. She feels that she knows enough about Trump to predict his behavior and reactions to things. Her position is that Trump is extremely competetive; he throws tantrums when he loses at anything, so he is definitely not trying to lose the election on purpose. And also that he is extremely sexist and would never allow a woman to defeat him at anything.
I don't think he's trying to lose either, but he's playing to the base and taking long shots to try to win. That's going to hurt more people than if he were ahead because that's who carries the downside risk.
||
NMM to Eddie Van Halen. Fuck
>
So are GOP governors just going to ignore the popular vote and appoint GOP electors to vote for Trump? That's the next big worry even if Trump loses the normal way.
324: This isn't a "strategy." This is who he is. He can't admit fault or weakness. A lot of people happen to like that.
More people should be like me, except with a better sense of responsibility.
My mom's theory is that he'll only go if Biden promises him a full pardon. To which I thought, but that doesn't get him out of the NY tax evasion stuff. Then I wondered whether Cuomo would also make a deal to pardon him. Seems like all the good people hate Cuomo so much that I should believe any bad thing of Cuomo. But surely that would be the political end of him?
326: State legislatures would have to do it, and I can't quite imagine it happening without a razor-thin margin. Anything's possible, but if the vote in a state isn't close, I don't think this is likely.
I can't see Cuomo pardoning Trump. I hate Cuomo, but he's a mean bastard and he'd enjoy Trump suffering.
Glad to hear it. I'd be incensed at any sort of pardon from either of them.
"Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love" was pretty much the first song I learned to play all the way through on the electric guitar, when I was four years older than my daughter is now and one million years younger than I am now. Definitely was not expecting this news today.
(Limited, due to productivity concerns, to the "Breaking News" alerts in my inbox... I see just now that "Trump halts stimulus bill negotiations until after election"? Is he still convinced that Biden is the incumbent? What is going on?)
Aaand Twitter has locked his account? That's overdue.
Ah, I did not read up the thread at all. I see my question is addressed after 313. I can't stand to think about any of this shit, but I can indulge 30 seconds of curiosity about 336, I guess
So, Christie is in the hospital with covid, but not bad covid because it's just a precaution he's taking because apparently his insurance is good enough that he decide is own precautions for himself? Or he's dangerously sick and lying about it?
And now Stephen Miller has covid. What a shame.
Who the fuck would stand close enough to him, even in the Trump White House?
I'm still wondering who Melania caught it from.
342: Trump appears to be bigly good at spreading covid.
Here's something I never thought I'd say: I'm sad that Steve Bannon doesn't still work in the White House.
He looks less healthy than Trump, even balcony-Trump.
Okay - so who are we rooting for to test positive next? I'm hoping for Rudy, and have some reason for optimism.
I want Trump to suffer but live through it to see himself defeated in November and be indicted in 2021 but I really hope Miller fucking dies from it soon.
Now I'm forced to picture everybody who has talked to Trump sitting through a spray of spittle. I feel sorry for Pelosi.
348: Trump can die after his loss. I never want to hear from him again, and I feel like death is the only way that will happen. Ivanka and Jared can go to jail. And Miller can die. I hope he experiences as much terror as all the refugees he's been torturing and deporting before he kicks off.
The most hideous Covid death I've heard of so far was that poor hapless Broadway actor who died at age 41 after months in hospital, amputations and a coma. I do seem to derive some value from preserving my humanity and not wishing death and suffering on anyone. It surprises me!
I mostly just pray for Biden and Harris to stay healthy and safe.
It's affecting so many recognizable names in the White House that I'm almost starting to worry about some kind of 7th-dimensional chess scenario again. They aren't actually sick, they're faking it for sympathy or to lull their enemies into a false sense of complacency. And/or Trump literally being a Manchurian candidate. Not in the sense where Russia is backing him because he's an incompetent idiot, but in the sense where he's working under orders to sabotage the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
But then again, maybe this is just fear of getting optimistic and getting let down again.
Trump looks likely to lose unless there are literally goons stealing voting machines and driving trucks into the lines of voters. So no stimulus after the election either, not until Jan 20. Maybe case counts stay at their current pretty high level. Shutdown deadline is Dec 11. Does DJT need to sign, or if there's a veto-proof majority, can a CR be passed over his tantrum?
350. You didn't say which jail. Jeff Fort, El Chapo, and Paul Bergrin are all at the same place. I'm sure Jared will manage.
351. Seeing your own interconnectedness with others is a prerequisite to recognizing your own suffering. Everyone's path to this realization is different.
I caused Miller's covid by suffering from a blister on my toe?
I was going to throw those boots away.
Is there a term for the exact opposite of irony? Like, when things turn out the way a literal logical view of the facts would indicate, even if that's diametrically contrary to expectation?
358: Could be. All the people in the White House refusing to wear masks because they were so concerned about projecting the image of strength, getting infected, is very pat.
355 Whatever barriers to compassion exist within you, minor physical pain is unlikely to help you see them in a different light. Raskolnikov's prison sentence helped him understand something about his internal sources of suffering-- what would be a compassionate wish towards him at the end of part 1?
357 "fate", perhaps.
I tried to read Crime and Punishment, but never finished. I did get further into it than I did into Infinite Jest. I think I'll pop the blister if it isn't helping.
SWABS OUT, MOTHERFUCKERS!
||
Can we have a Not just COVID WTF thread? I always thought of Sessions as a gross bigot and anti abortion, but the NY Times piece saying that he was the driving force reveals how truly gross he is.
|>
If we ever have a decent America, it's going to be hard to sort out if he or Barr was worse.
366: Up the nose. You won't get a useful sample for the RT-PCR test otherwise.
364: Sure. I was going to do a debate thread tonight, but I don't have anything planned for tomorrow, so maybe I can plan on that. They're all such actual evil people.
It's only evil if you define evil as deliberately harming others for personal gain and enjoyment.
|| driving force behind the child separation policy at the border. Family values, my ass|>
|| driving force behind the child separation policy at the border. Family values, my ass|>
speaking of the debate, holy shit those tiny little plexiglass folding screens they're putting up for the debate look completely inadequate and I now want Harris to just say "fuck you" and withdraw from the debate.
who are we rooting for to test positive next
Definitely Bill Barr. Don Jr. is a distant second.
