Re: Joints? Feeling Stiff? There's no good title for this one.

1

Running killed my ankle again. Blue I can't go down stairs without using the banister.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 8:15 AM
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Yes to the OP. I can walk for hours with no problem, but if I spend much more than 1 hour in a museum without a break, I start to feel it in my back.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 8:24 AM
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And that's why I like to tell art to go fuck itself.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 8:27 AM
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"Blue"? This phone is shit. "Now I can't ...."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 8:29 AM
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G-d forbid that Moby ever get a competent phone.


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 9:05 AM
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Our new, pandemic exercise thing is a punching bag. It's still getting used, but not as much as during the summer.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 9:07 AM
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Maybe it's time for an iphone. But I'm waiting for after Biden is in office to spend the money.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 9:32 AM
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Standing still for any length of time or walking slowly cripples me. Although I don't go to the gym at the moment,* I normally get about 8-10 miles or so of cycling in most days, and 12-15,000 steps of walking. Neither of those cause me any pain or discomfort.* So I keep quite active, and my basic fitness is decent enough. But standing for more than, say, 30 minutes, with no movement, my knees, hips and back will be screaming in agony and I'll seize up and be unable to move freely for a long time after.

Exactly the same as 2, when it comes to museums and galleries.

* friends have been going, but I think that's a fairly high risk activity (and I'm not the most COVID averse). I do really missing weight training.
** minor caveat for cycling the past 2 mornings as it's been (literally) freezing and my feet and calves have been aching.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 10:24 AM
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Moby actually passed away in 2006, but not before uploading his consciousness to a smartphone. Unfortunately, that smartphone runs Palm OS. He comments here because Unfogged is one of very few sites that still works in his browser.

One day the site will get upgraded to a React front-end and he will be gone.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 10:25 AM
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10

What ever happened to the sanctity of off-blog communication?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 10:31 AM
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It got bought out by Facebook.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 10:35 AM
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And I can't log in to change privacy settings.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 10:47 AM
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I have been running lots since I stopped lifting weights because of the pandemic -- five miles this morning, fourteen on Sunday -- and yes, I am creaky all the time. Getting out of bed in the morning, it's about twenty steps before my feet work properly.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 10:59 AM
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14

That's a lot of running. I don't think I've been able to go past 2.5 on the last five years.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 11:01 AM
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I've never gone over 13.1 miles.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 11:03 AM
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14 is a lot! I haven't gotten above 5 this pandemic.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 11:12 AM
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8: this reminds me both of working at Kwik Save, and also of the time I met my old boss at Mobile World Congress. when we had been working for the same company, it was an in-house rule that we had to be in suits and ties at all times on site at events. The first thing he said was "you're wearing....TRAINERS..." in a tone that suggested I'd run off with his wife.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 11:15 AM
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Heebie - do you do any yoga or other in-home exercise? I power walk. I used to do a 7 minute hiit thin, and I think that helped my mood somewhat. I really like walking but I wonder if I should walk for 45 min to 1hr instead of 90 minutes or so and do something with my upper body, because I feel all of the tension in my shoulders, and I feel drained.

Also, I've cut my commute and I'm doing a longer morning walk, but I'm not getting 10 minute walks during the day or walking to a bus stop, so I think my total exercise might be less.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 11:24 AM
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I stopped running a few years ago and switched to cycling which I should have done ten years ago. I'm a cold wimp and the air quality is bad, so at the moment I'm alternating trainer days with skiing*. I count skiing as anaerobic exercise because I'm very inefficient due to no skills and also usually snowplowing behind Pebbles and the Calabat who are reasonably proficient beginners

*I did not grow up skiing and in my head it's still a sport only for the rich so there's always an "are we the baddies?" moment when I reflect that Pebbles has been skiing since she was two.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 11:39 AM
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No commute and absolutely no pride at all about the speed I'm going at has made it pretty easy to put on a whole lot of distance. And it gets me outdoors -- without that, working from home I would have completely retreated into the fetal position. Right now, though, my butt is killing me from the long run Sunday -- really long runs seem to make soreness kick in in weird new places.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 11:39 AM
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I was thinking of getting one of those electric bikes so I don't have to pedal up hills. Or at all, really. Seems like an easy way to get exercise.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 11:39 AM
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22

My butt is newly cradled in upholstery because I finally caved in a bought an office chair.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 11:47 AM
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23

But I have a lot of pain going down stairs now, the injured ankle and the opposite hip are killing me.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 11:49 AM
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Heebie - do you do any yoga or other in-home exercise?

Over the summer, when I was an anxious wreck but had more time, I was doing yoga regularly. Also it was ungodly hot, so I was running much more slowly and for shorter distances. Either way, I wasn't feeling achey.

Now I'm shorter on time but not very stressed out anymore, and I haven't made time for yoga in a while. And the cool weather has definitely increased my runs.

I should probably build in some strength training. I just don't enjoy it that much, I guess.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 11:49 AM
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And the cool weather has definitely increased my runs.

Cholera is usually more common during hot weather.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 11:58 AM
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If you're going to stand for a long time, a necessary but maybe not sufficient condition to be comfortable is something extremely cushioned to stand on. Either a standing mat, or plush footwear (I don't mean running shoes, but something like a flip flop made with memory foam).


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 4:34 PM
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I don't own either of these brands, but the luxe cushiony footwear brands I know of are Oofos and Hoka. Christmas is right around the corner!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 4:39 PM
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28

Buying shoes as gifts is part of the war on Christmas.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 4:43 PM
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29

Anyway, kitchen people need to stand on hard floors so they use chef's clogs.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 4:44 PM
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30

Surgeons, too, my sister tells me.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 5:30 PM
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The trick is to wipe of the spilled marinara before you get to the hospital.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 5:32 PM
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32

I'm on my feet a lot of the day, and I wear running shoes (not new ones), and my job has some reasonably physical aspects (regularly lifting 40 lb hunks of metal). Running a lot does make me feel a lot worse than any other exercise. I'm very slow and run 2-3 miles, and if I do it more than 2 or 3 days a week, things start to hurt. Treadmills and nicer shoes/socks help, but I just don't seem to be built for regular running. Luckily, I like lifting weights and HIIT type workouts. I'm so out of shape right now, though. The layoff from the gym was so ling. Gyms haven't closed again here yet, and I'm going occasionally but not nearly as often as I'd like in a normal year.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 5:50 PM
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Sanita clogs are what used to be branded I the US as Danskos, but their licensing deal fell apart, so danskos are cheap Chinese shit. And now you can buy Sanita here. Unfortunately, they dropped the narrow width ones. I bought up a bunch but will have to transition to some other kind of shoes, because my feet swim in the standard size.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 6:09 PM
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30: Is your sister working as a surgeon? I thought she quit her job at some point.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 12- 8-20 6:15 PM
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35

Some surgeons have unbelievably bad work ergonomics (eg neuro)


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 1:29 AM
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36

I'm recalling the clogs conversation from way back. She's doing a freelance consulting sort of thing these days, that somehow turns into working maybe ten days a month but still making more money. So she spends most of her time raising goats.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 4:09 AM
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I did find, for me, that low drop "barefoot/free" style trainers* did my back and knees a ton of good when I was walking a lot over the summer. I got my time per km down to around 7min walking on an approx 4-5 mile route route (that's around an 11min mile, which is slow for running, but pretty quick** for walking). Those shoes fell apart and I'm back to standard running shoes, which are fine, but I don't feel I walk as fast, or as naturally.

* these: https://bit.ly/tammshoes (rather than some toe shoe abominations)
** I'd regularly overtake runners. Some people run so slowly that they'd definitely be getting more aerobic exercise if they switched to walking.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 5:24 AM
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Have I touted my smartwatch here before? Got one last Christmas, and I had no idea how beneficial that would be. The ability to keep score on various biometrics, it turns out, is really motivating. Because of the various 2020 upheavals affecting my exercise routine, my resting heart rate this year has varied by about 18 bpm.

Does everybody else fall out of shape immediately when they stop getting significant exercise? I am basically on my third iteration this year of a couch-to-5K-type program, and every time starting out I've been a mess.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 6:07 AM
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9: PalmOS ... Now that's a name I've not heard in a long time. A long time.


Posted by: Opinionated Obi-Wan JeffHawkins | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 6:10 AM
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40

Republicans are in worse shape because they go from the couch to only three-k.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 6:20 AM
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41

You could always give these a try.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 6:42 AM
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re: 41

Wow!. Those are something.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 6:43 AM
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43

We should just go back to the dick-point shoes of the middle ages.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 6:44 AM
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Because of the various 2020 upheavals affecting my exercise routine, my resting heart rate this year has varied by about 18 bpm.

I am such a creature of habit. My exercise routines and my heartrate don't vary very much.

Also I've had my fitbit for about 3.5 years now, and may I just gloat that my resting heart rate is DAZZLING? Although I think the ADHD meds knocked it up 2 bpm.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 8:11 AM
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may I just gloat that my resting heart rate is DAZZLING? Although I think the ADHD meds knocked it up 2 bpm.

Congratulations! It has saddened me to discover that alcohol consumption has a significant impact.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 9:28 AM
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38: PF, did you have a particular brand to recommend? Maybe this is the year I get one.


Posted by: chill | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 9:53 AM
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Also, semi-on topic, I did 31 situps (to the Sally Up thing Heebie mentioned long ago) and now my back is out. That's why I haven't done situps for a decade. Well, one reason. And unfortunately push-ups also do that too me now. It's annoying because I'm actually motivated to do them.


Posted by: chill | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 9:55 AM
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46: I've got a Fitbit, which I'm quite happy with. But for all I know, there are better choices available.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 10:01 AM
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Years ago, a doctor told me not to do full sit-ups. I'm supposed to go up a few inches and hold there for a ten count. So now I don't do those instead of not doing sit-ups.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 10:23 AM
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Some people run so slowly that they'd definitely be getting more aerobic exercise if they switched to walking.

When I used to run, I ran so slowly that my dog didn't need to shift his gait to a trot.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 11:00 AM
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re: 45

Me too. I'm a little and often drinker rather than a heavy drinker, but if I go to the pub and drink a bit more (usually once a week, although only once in the last 4 or 5 weeks this past while) I notice that my resting heart rate is up a fair bit the next two days, and also, the occasional ectopic beats and SVTs that I get* get a lot worse.

* I've had these checked out and been given a clean bill of health,* although I need another monitoring period, I think, as it's been a while.
** told to cut out things that make the symptoms worse, but I have no underlying abnormality and am fine to do high intensity exercise, etc.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 11:09 AM
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When I run near my in-laws house, there's a hectoring SLOW DOWN sign to drivers, and I always mentally whine "I can't go any slower! I'll come to a stop!"

(Sort of like the very beginning of the very dumb Super Troopers movie, where they get pulled over, and then they stay on the side of the road after the cop leaves. Then a second cop comes up behind them on the shoulder with their lights on, and the stoners are like, "Pull over? We're already pulled over! We can't pull over any farther!")


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 12:03 PM
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This post is depressing me. I'm doing okay, but 2020 has felt like a cascade of failure for trying to maintain an exercise routine.

I had been going to they gym often enough to feel like I was maintaining basic competence. The gym was helpful for two reasons; both having equipment to be able to focus on anything that's bothering me, and because "going to a place" is helpful for focus. In their absence I have missed both of those.

I have failed to maintain any significant at-home exercise routine. I tried to increase walking to compensate (which, at best, would make up for losing my bike commute). I like walking and feel like it's good for my mood as well. But then I started having a variety of foot and joint soreness and my exercise has just fallen off.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 12:51 PM
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My in-laws installed their own road sign reading "Slow Down." It's exactly the same shape and color as a regular yellow diamond sign, but it has the drawing of a hand pointing at you.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 12:52 PM
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Somebody installed a non-official stop sign near my house to get people to stop at a crosswalk. It lasted less than a day. I assume the city didn't like it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 1:02 PM
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I tried to set up a basement weight room. I ordered a special sized rack and bar (it's a small space), got a bench, and then learned that weight plates-- which I foolishly assumed would be readily available-- are yet another product that has fallen victim to the pandemic two-fer of 'unprecedented demand and interrupted supply chains.' So for now I lift the bar with the one pair of plates I managed to get, which is too light for half the things I want to do and too heavy for the other half.

The rest of the plates should arrive next week, though, after months of waiting. I figure having an ugly weight set up at the bottom of the basement stairs will motivate me to use it, as my family will get pretty annoyed at the space it's taking up if I just let it gather dust.


Posted by: MattD | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 3:10 PM
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It takes me a month at least to relearn how to run as fast as I can walk, but I get so much more tired running that I've assumed it was better exercise. I'm just a graceless runner and a good (though slightly funny-looking) walker.

The smoke and the sulks have sure not helped either this year, though.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 12- 9-20 4:15 PM
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I believe, when I read up on this a fair bit before* that there's a certain overlap where you can run slowly or walk quickly at approximately the same speed. Within that window, there's a certain point where walking, as a gait, becomes less efficient and harder work than running for the same speed. But I suspect it varies a lot from person to person.** When walking for cardio I deliberately try to get my speed up to the point where I could break into a trot and it'd be easier, because I'm trying to maximise the cardio workout I get and make the walking as hard as possible. If I'm just trying to get in N steps, I walk a bit slower, as it's easier on my joints.

* I had to stop running due to chronic shin splints and knee/hip issues, so I did a fair bit of reading about walking vs running for fitness.
** and it's been a few years since I did that reading, so maybe I'm just retreading received wisdom that everyone now thinks is bullshit.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12-10-20 3:06 AM
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I think the way to reconcile that, which does sound accurate to me, is that there's a lot of overlap between slow running and fast walking paces, and for most of it running slow takes more effort because of the whole lifting yourself off the ground aspect of the running gait. But it is simply impossible for anyone to walk as fast as they can run -- walking has an absolute top speed for each person that it is impossible to exceed -- and when you're walking fast enough that you're at or very close to that limit, it becomes more effortful than running.

Eleven-minute miles are very very very fast walking. I have been running a lot this year on parks full of people walking, and a lot of my running has been at paces between eleven and twelve minute miles, and I have never seen anyone walking near the speed I was running.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-10-20 7:20 AM
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To put it another way, the runners who would be getting more aerobic exercise if they switched to walking aren't the slowest runners -- at the slowest running pace, it's more effort than walking. It's the moderately slow runners like me, because walking as fast as a moderately slow runner is almost impossible and takes a lot of effort.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-10-20 7:24 AM
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I once passed a bicyclist while I was jogging. It was amusing.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-10-20 7:40 AM
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re: 59

I used to time it, and my time per km would vary from about 7 min per km at the top end, to about 8 min per km at the slower end, I guess. So, 11 min miles at the top, and about 12.5 per mile nearer the slower side. I have broken 7 min per km a couple of times, but not been able to sustain that for more than one or two km at a time.

Competitive race walkers are quite a bit faster than that, though.

re: 60

Yeah, that sounds right to me.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12-10-20 7:47 AM
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Even jogging while looking kind like death in a track suit looks less stupid than competitive walking.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-10-20 8:02 AM
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re: 59.last

Also, I think a lot of people who think they are walking for fitness, aren't. I don't necessarily mean that in a judgemental way. Quite a lot of my own walking is just about getting outside, being mobile, enjoying a bit of fresh air, and any fitness benefits are ancillary to that, and I'm not battering around at 11 min per mile when I'm doing that. But ... a lot of people who think they are getting fit through walking, aren't, to my mind, unless their base level fitness is low, walking anywhere near fast enough. It should probably be bordering on the mildly unpleasant.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12-10-20 8:10 AM
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Also, I think a lot of people who think they are walking for fitness, aren't.

Well, there's walking as exertion, and there's walking to counter being sedentary. There are a ton of people who would otherwise be sedentary, and walking is a very good balance.

Also, I know about HIIT and elevated heartrates and such, and I like exercising, but isn't there also a thing where gardening, walking, and other forms of grandma exercise end up contributing to longevity as much as anything else? Maybe I made that up.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-20 8:39 AM
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Yeah, I think there are a lot of health and fitness benefits from ordinary walking a lot. I like "grandma exercise" as a phrase, and I think you're right about what the research says about the benefits: that someone who walks an hour or so a day at any speed is immensely better off, health-wise, than someone who doesn't, and more intense exercise is terrific for increasing your capacity to do more intense exercise, but doesn't have all that much additional health effect.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-10-20 9:07 AM
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Quite a lot of my own walking is just about getting outside, being mobile, enjoying a bit of fresh air, and any fitness benefits are ancillary to that
is basically the same, I think, as what you mean by grandma exercise, and I like doing it, too.

I maybe used the wrong words. I don't mean that it's not going improve your health and well-being, especially versus being sedentary. But it's not going to make much in the way of big changes to your cardiovascular fitness -- in the way that we think of as _exercise_ -- unless you are starting from quite a low level (e.g. grandmas). If you are a sedentary person, or old, knock yourself out, and, it's just nice to do anyway, even if you are super fit.

But, if your goal is to get fitter, and you are someone who is used to jogging, cycling, rowing, or whatever, and you want to swap in walking as an alternative, you are probably going to have to walk pretty quickly or it's not doing much as your heart rate is never going to get up into the aerobic zone. For me, for example, as someone in their late 40s, that's going to be 125-130bpm plus.

I don't think we are disagreeing. Just talking about different things, both of which can be good to do.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12-10-20 9:56 AM
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There's also walking to get stuff places. Liquor and laundry powder and library books are all pretty heavy even going downhill.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 12-11-20 8:21 PM
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