DC statehood. I got places to be.
1: I support that, but is there any chance of that happening ever?
Manchin has said he doesn't see the need for it but wasn't an absolute never.
My grandfather was involved in the Jewish/Black civil rights alliance so fuck yeah today.
Be the bone-chrunching marrow-chomping victory you want to see in the world.
Don't you need a Constitutional amendment? Those aren't exactly easy to get passed?
You know what this country needs? It needs a West Virginia where the streets are paved with gold.
5: No, just define the borders of the constitutionally mandated federal district much more narrowly. When I lived in DC more than 20 years ago, that was already a solved problem even if the solution wasn't much known outside of the District. (Another proposed solution was retrocession of the District to Maryland, as Arlington was given back to Virginia, but neither DC nor MD wants that.)
You might need some clean-up legislation so that the few remaining inhabitants of the Federal District don't wind up with three electoral votes, but I'd be willing to bet that someone already has a draft of that lying around.
7: That gives you enfranchisement for the district's residents, but not more Democratic Senators.
If you define it too narrowly you might end up giving the sitting President three electoral votes.
It's really stupid to gauge the market's reaction to political events, but I won't let that stop me. Pre-opening, the Russell 2000 is up 2% while other broad indexes are flat-to-down. Apparently a Democratic Senate is seen as a boon to the littler companies.
I think this is when it makes sense for those of us with Dem senators to spend the next two years wearing out our dialing fingers. Even if they don't abolish the filibuster (drat you, Manchin) there's a lot they can do with reconciliation, and if they don't have accomplishments to point to we're going to lose again in 2022.
Also, Breyer's done his job and needs a nice front porch and a rocking chair to retire to in good order.
He's a member of my tennis club, maybe I'll play some doubles with him.
My personal goal is to find a way to hurt the re-election chances of every member of the PA state legislature who signed that fucking letter asking to have my vote tossed. I'm not that fussed about governing yet.
Who is the Stacy Abrahms of the Pennsylvanians?
Probably. I was hoping it would be somebody with the last name "Tolstoy", because I like irony.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this and figure out how non-awful I should feel. I mean, nothing very good will happen for the next two years, but Biden's presidency was going to be a trainwreck in important ways with McConnell in charge of the Senate. I wonder how long it will take me to forget that and start complaining about Joe Manchin (who, today, is my personal hero).
Have you considered raging at the Pennsylvania state legislature instead of processing all that?
Am I not allowed to be amused by the Pennsylvania Republicans? I am suddenly finding Trump's Twitter feed hilarious.
Sample:
I hope the Democrats, and even more importantly, the weak and ineffective RINO section of the Republican Party, are looking at the thousands of people pouring into D.C. They won't stand for a landslide election victory to be stolen. @senatemajldr @JohnCornyn @SenJohnThune
Recurring donations to Fair Fight so they can all take nice long vacations. And pass every voting protection/convenience law we can think of.
What now?
I'm pretty sure Ossoff will clear the 0.5% recount threshold. Even so I expect some BS about seating him along the line our local Commonwealth assholes have demonstrated. Recall that Franken/Coleman was actually with a Dem Senate (Rs threatened filibuster). I expect there to be pressure for Perdue to sue and Georgia Rs to not certify if he does. Hopefully Georgia law is not as flexible as Minnesota's was on that point.
I'm trying to up my think like a Republican lawmaker* game and I think I've nailed this one. They have far more legal basis to do that than the Trump thing. Still utterly corrosive of democracy, but , yeah ...
35.* More like Republican lawbreaker amirite, or amirite?
Anyone else afraid Manchin changes teams?
37: He has so much power in his current position that I doubt it. But who the fuck knows. I suspect he will wield the implicit threat continually.
In conclusion, this is good news for John McCain.
26, 28: are you commenting from the future? Can you tell us what happens in Georgia at noon?
27: Not really, he does seem deeply committed to at least a personal subset of traditional Democratic principles, but... as his reelection date draws nearer especially, it would not be hard to see him taking advantage of some circumstance to regretfully acknowledge that his party has left him.
He'll be running in a presidential election year though. Probably smarter to keep playing fair, cash in his chips, and move on to whatever sinecure awaits.
30: I use my gift sparingly.
I *can* reveal that in the Senate this afternoon Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley will act like utter disingenuous assholes.
Anyone who's main reaction to the Dems taking the Senate is to immediately start worrying that Manchin is going to switch teams is in need of some therapy.
I would very much like to know the minute details of how the Abrams et al mobilized Georgia.
34: It won't provide minute details, but the documentary _She Could Be Next_ has a very good segment on Abrams that's worth watching.
Nobody has pointed out the deep sexism inherent in the OP, that, in fact, heebie is unequivocally pro-sexual assault? Disappointing.
Manchin is 73. If he retires, how likely is it another Democrat can win WV? Hopefully one no longer campaigning like they're afraid of backlash, like Warnock and Ossoff's route.
I guess the 2022 map could withstand losing WV, but we shouldn't have to.
Wow - WI, NC, and PA will all be open seats in 2022. With strong new federal voting protections...
There is basically zero chance of another Democrat winning a Senate seat in West Virginia. Manchin, in addition to being widely regarded as a decent person, is an INCREDIBLE retail politician with very, very strong ties to what remains of organized labor in a state where that matters a lot. There isn't at the moment anything like an heir apparent, because the Democratic bench in WV is very thin. For all of his flaws--he sure isn't going to be a reliable vote for the Green New Deal (or even for nuking the filibuster)--Manchin probably has the highest VORS, along with Tester, within the Democratic caucus in the Senate.
I shall choose to interpret VORS as sausage. Anyway, hyenas.
Didn't someone run a decent campaign for WV Gov recently, at least by Democrat in WV standards? Clearly a superstar given how well I remember his name.
43: I hadn't heard about that, but it looks like the Dem candidate for governor in 2020 lost 65-31. (Against the guy who won as a Democrat in 2016 and then switched parties to support Trump.)
The Naked Cowboy is protesting in D.C.
45.last: Although he was really a Republican. Switched to D in 2015, won the election and then switched back after Trump told stories of wild NY parties to the Boy Scouts. (I think it was after that rally--the Scout Jamboree was held at a big reclaimed strip mine turned scout retreat near the New River Gorge.)
Anyway, what makes these anticipated wins even more delicious is that Trump really did try to get the GOP Senators reelected and he failed.
43: I think you are thinking of Richard Ojeda who lost a a "close" house race in 2018 (by 12 points). From wikipedia:
For Democrats, this was a 32-point improvement in performance from the previous election, where the Democrat won only 24% to the Republican's 68%. According to FiveThirtyEight, Ojeda outperformed his district's partisan lean by 25%, the strongest showing for a non-incumbent.
He ran for Senate in 2020 but lost in the primary.
Also, donating your reclaimed strip mines to the scouts for the tax deduction is a good plan.
48: I really, really disagree with that. The delightful thing is that Trump didn't care what happened to the Republicans in Georgia, and it showed in the result.
Fingers crosssed, Trump's control of the Republican Party might serve the Democrats well going forward precisely because he doesn't give a fuck about the Republican Party.
47: Sort of like when Bloomberg became a Republican, because the other party wouldn't have nominated him?
I like Bloomberg. He's really sloppy with his paywall.
Trump personally doesn't give a rat's ass about the Republican party or literally anything other than himself with the possible exception of Ivanka, but he still tried to win those elections and he failed.
I think we broadly agree on the double bind the Republicans are in: the Trump brand has lost its magic, but they can't lose the brand without saying goodbye to a very energetic, eh, 20% of their current electorate.
Mister Bloomberg, delete the cookies from your paywall.
Let's keep in mind there some overdetermination here - success has a thousand fathers - certainly the Georgia organization base was a big part of the victory, and so was Trump flailing and potentially demotivating some supporters, and so were the $2,000 checks. Hard to say which was in what proportion. Nothing to do but keep fighting all fronts.
(What factors hurt the Democrats and were successfully counteracted? Turnout drop was expected and, it seems, averted.)
I've seen turnout number comparisons, but I haven't seen comparisons of voter totals between Ossof/Warnock/Perdue/Loeffler in November and now. (And I can't look them up for myself at the moment.)
I also think it helped that Warnock is maybe (we'll see) a generational talent, that he had coattails (no offense to Ossoff, who reminds me of a lot of thirsty politics boys I grew up with), and that Loeffler is maybe a generational un-talent.
As I recall, Ojeda did well by being a strong union guy in support of the 2018 teachers strike. If there is a path for Democrats in WV, it goes through labor.
I bet someone here has something intelligent to say about Georgia turnout. In a high-turnout general election with a presidential race on the ballot, Georgia in November had something like 5 million voters. Yesterday's turnout will be around 4.4 million. That latter figure seems like a lot to me, both the raw number and as a percentage of the general election turnout, but I don't really know.
DON'T FORGET ABOUT ME
61: Yes, I read that it is higher than the Georgia turnout in the 2016 general election.
I would kind of like someone to interview some Warnock/Perdue or Ossoff/Loeffler voters. There must tens of thousands of them. Can they explain what they were thinking or will it just come out as word salad?
If there is a path for Democrats in WV, it goes through labor.
Lots of good people were born by c-section.
64: For the former, I think Loeffler is horrible in a way that stands out for even MAGA-types. If you want to block Biden but not support Trump's theft attempt, you vote Warnock/Perdue. For the latter, I don't think there were many.
61: yes. Much higher than other runoffs. One indication -- 2016 4.1M votes (there has been population growth since then of course).
Prior Senate runoffs:
2008: 3.7M -> 2.1M
1992: 2.3M -> 1.3M
And there was a turnout differential where blue areas 90-95% of general, red areas generally 80-85%.
2017 Alabama had an even bigger differential turnout, but even with the attention that one brought it was 1.3M versus 2.1M form the 2016 Senate race (which was Shelby, Sessions won in 2014 against only write-ins with less than a million votes).
I just ran some numbers comparing the dropoff in vote totals by party to the general vs. runoff elections in 2008, with Obama's coattails.
In 2008, between the general and runoff, the Republican vote dropped by 34%, the Democratic vote by 48%, so the Republican margin went from +3% to +15%.
In 2020, votes counted to date in the Warnock/Loeffler race, R drop 10%, D drop 6%.
In the Ossoff/Perdue race, drops of 11% and 7% respectively.
And the 2008 election was held only one month after the general!
I really hope the $2k cheque thing gets one of those silly acronym titles, like the PATRIOT Act or CARES or whatever. Hmm...Coronavirus Health Emergency Currency Kicker Act?
Goddamn it, where is the link to the twitter thread on the lizard people conspiracy someone posted in the last week or so. My google-fu is failing just when I need it most.
69: Don't jinx it, the huge bill just passed with $600 checks had no such cutesy name and no one seems to have noticed yet.
Covid-19 Health and Economic Crisis Keeping Safe (CHECKS) Act?
71: maybe the trick to passing legislation without needing a stupid name is...checks?
Federal Universal Cash Kickbacks*: Urgent Mandate for Immediate Temporary Covid Help
*Better K word needed.
Nobody has pointed out the deep sexism inherent in the OP, that, in fact, heebie is unequivocally pro-sexual assault? Disappointing.
I did think about it this morning when the post went up. I am disappointing.
70:
https://twitter.com/_MAArgentino/status/1346218503339171840
November:
Ossoff 2,374,519
Perdue 2,462,617
Current:
Ossoff: 2,213,099
Perdue: 2,195,532
November:
Loeffler 1,273,214
Warnock 1,617,035
Current:
Warnock: 2,231,728
Loeffler: 2,176,999
I guess it's not informative after all.
The haven't been following this very closely but why was there a runoff in both races in the first place?
80: It is the law in Georgia when no one gets a majority. One of the November races had 12 or 15 candidates, and the other had a third-party candidate who got just enough to keep the Republican from getting a majority.
I can't believe I'm watching the joint session on a stream.
The first state objected to was Arizona, so now they de-jointed to debate. It didn't occur to me that they have to do this for every single state objected to. Hopefully they will not stretch it out to the two-hour maximum each time.
I think they plan to. They talked about going into Thursday. Maybe the plan is that the law says they have to meet on Jan 6 and if they don't finish on that date they'll say Trump wins by default.
Perdue 2,462,617
.....
Ossoff: 2,213,099
Stolen election!!
As expected, Pence hasn't pulled any Shenanigans so far. The only non procedural thing that happened before they started going through the States was that Pelosi stated that only 11 members from each side were allowed on the floor for social distancing, one member made a point of order asking how they could have object from the gallery, and Pence said that question constituted debate which was not allowed in this session by law.
Extra chef's kiss that they appear to plan to have a representative from each state in question to object to the vote. Which means every House member objecting is saying their own election was also fraudulent.
Crowd of deplorables attempted to storm the Capitol barricade, apparently to no avail.
I'm muting the floor debate though. No time for that nonsense.
Oh yeah, Pence took off his mask to officiate and Pelosi didn't.
The crowd from the Ellipse Trump speech is moving to join the group at the Capitol. Will they actually gain entrance to the building? Stay tuned to live coverage!
It's really amazing how terrible a lot of members of Congress are at public speaking.
Show business for inarticulate people.
Unmuted for McConnell speaking, too much schadenfreude.
It's nice that Hillary gets a chance to gloat. Here she retweets, without comment, Lindsay Graham from May 2016:
If we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed.......and we will deserve it.
Trump's interests have diverged from the interests of the Republican Party, and for all practical purposes, nobody will admit this. Democrats, Republicans, and Trump himself will all labor to make him the face of the Republican Party. So we are going to be treated to the spectacle of Republicans relentlessly sucking up to Trump, who will return none of their loyalty, and who will be just as happy with Republican defeat as victory. You can sense the glee in his Twitter feed as he declares that Perdue is toast:
These scoundrels are only toying with the @sendavidperdue (a great guy) vote. Just didn't want to announce quite yet. They've got as many ballots as are necessary. Rigged Election!
Let's remember that the one issue that genuinely motivates Trump -- beyond narcissism -- is xenophobia. His trade, immigration and foreign troop inclinations all spring from that, and that puts him in a place that is profoundly hostile to Republican policy aims.
Schumer: "We are a country of laws and of not-men."
Lovecraftian slip?
Had to turn the mute back on for Ted Cruz.
I left Cruz unmuted because he comes across so pathetic.
He set expectations at the start, acknowledging Democrats alone voting in a block could uphold the results. He's only talking about "what message do Republicans send" by voting to reject objections.
The haven't been following this very closely but why was there a runoff in both races in the first place?
82 explains why both races went to a runoff, but the reason there were two races to begin with is that one of the incumbent senators stepped down for health reasons a year or two ago and the governor appointed Loeffler to fill the seat. Georgia law requires that an appointed senator has to run in the next regular election even if the term they fill extends longer (this one is up in 2022).
FFS I thought this guy was supposed to have been a champion debater. "If you think there was no fraud, you shouldn't have any objection to supporting a commission to investigate fraud." I'm sure there's some fancy Latin term for that logical fallacy.
Technically it's a special election rather than the next regular election, I guess, but it's at the same time or at least was under these circumstances.
I also found it humorous that Pence had to be fed the exact parliamentary lines he had to say in the joint session. It sounded like he was reciting the lines from the pastor to get married. Is that typical or does the VP normally know basic parliamentary procedure and this is just Pence's stupidity?
Does any state allow an appointee to fill out the entire rest of a senator's term, no matter it's length? The 17th Amendment directs states hold elections to fill vacancies, with appointments explicitly described as temporary. Thomas Geoghegan, if I recall correctly, argued states are on shaky ground letting those special elections wait as long as they traditionally do.
Yeah, I'm not going to listen to Ted Cruz.
I wonder if they're really going to do this with all 6 (or 7 -- maybe NM?).
I know and agree that the Trump cult places great stock in 'he fights' but I think it's absolutely dwarfed by the stock they put in 'he wins' -- that is, I don't think heroic effort by any of the little people (like Sen. Cruz) is actually going to be rewarded. His failure will be evidence that he didn't fight had enough. I mean, did he even try to get Pence to play the "PenceCard" back in December? No. It's because Biden promised to keep his father's involvement in the JFK assassination a secret. You can be sure of it.
"If this election were overturned by mere allegations from the losing side, our democracy would enter a death spiral. We'd never see our country accept an election again."
--Mitch McConnell, Republican in Name Only.
Wheeeee!
102: It looks like all states that allow the governor to appoint a replacement generally require the appointee to stand at the next election, though if the vacancy comes shortly before the election a few let the appointment stand until the following election.
106: Right, but that says the next general election, which I think means the next time House seats are up (Novembers of even years) at the latest, or earlier if other statewide races like governor happen earlier, rather than whenever that Senate seat's term is up.
Oh good Capitol police are making plans to lock the chamber doors because the protesters have made it up the building steps. Also bomb threat in a building facing one of the Congressional office buildings. Normal country here.
Yes, it supports what you were saying in 102.
Secret service hastily evacuates Pence from the Senate session. Wonder if that counts towards the two hour debate clock.
On splitscreen on the Washington Post's stream, most of the crowd outside the Capitol looks stationary at least.
At least in the debate the objectors don't seem to be attempting to bring up state-specific issues, just the vague miasma of the doubt they themselves created. CNN says 23 R Senators have come out against objections to the counting - maybe McConnell will tell the objectors in subsequent debates "you have 5 minutes to say anything that hasn't been covered already," then get cloture.
Both houses are recessed now. "All buildings within the Capitol complex are on lockdown, no entry or exit due to a security threat on the West front."
Apparently the protestors have breached the perimeter and are inside the Capitol building itself.
Unbelievable. Un-fucking-believable.
Truly a gift to the African intellectuals who write about America as in the style of Western news agencies writing about Africa.
Trump and Giuliani overtly incited this. Lock them up.
There's a point where they are shooting "fire" in a crowded theater.
Infidels are misguided, but apostates are evil and must be made to suffer. McConnell and Pence better watch out.
holy shit, I'm just now catching up.
Is it possible for me to overdose on pure, uncut schadenfreude? We're going to find out!
Jfc. Just heard on Washington Post stream that Pelosi has requested National Guardsmen to clear the Capitol and they're on their way.
The hidden downside of violent, racists comes out.
https://twitter.com/mepfuller/status/1346905489561579532?s=21
The crazy on full display seems like a good thing. I have to figure that most people are scared by this chaos, including legislators, and mainstream Republicans are going to have to pull back. We'll see if this is optimistic.
well I'm not getting much work done
If we aren't going to demilitarize policing, I wish at least they would respond to every protest with the same level of violence. We all know a BLM protest would have been crushed outside the building.
These tweets from Congressional reporters are wild. They are terrified.
Winston Churchill said getting shot at was fun.
127: I thought that was George Washington.
I don't know what to say. "A source tells me The Defense Department has just denied a request by DC officials to deploy the National Guard to the US Capitol." - Aaron Davis, Washington Post.
Can DC police provide the needed backup?
Wow almost as if Trump just installed a crony as secdef.
When do we get to call it a coup attempt without getting scolded?
The Capital police letting the rioters into the building and the DOD refusing to send the National Guard is why I am so skeptical that the Secret Service (or anyone) will remove Trump if he refuses to leave. They are just wired to support the Republicans. I hate it.
Based on this video, the Capital police did not appear to have sufficient backup.
131: Hard to see how it could be called anything else now. This is surreal.
Schumer: "We are a country of laws and of not-men."
Q. Are We Not-Men?
A. We Are Devo.
134: Alternately, I saw a report that DOD denied *because* if they were deployed they would be under Trumps' command. Bad either way.
"Not to go on all-fours; that is the Law. Are we not Men? "Not to suck up Drink; that is the Law. Are we not Men? "Not to eat Fish or Flesh; that is the Law. Are we not Men? "Not to claw the Bark of Trees; that is the Law. Are we not Men? "Not to chase other Men; that is the Law. Are we not Men?"
--Wells, Island of Dr. Moreau
Dow Jones up 400 points today....
(I know, Georgia, who even knows what causes it to do anything)
I saw the same report as 138. It was from Robert Farley whom I usually trust. But I have since misplaced the tweet.
Let's have a war
Jack up the Dow Jones
131: CNN is already calling it a coup attempt, and they had on a retired police chief who agreed.
Because my narcissistic superpower* is to focus on my self-image in the midst of momentous larger events, I will say that my "think like a Trump Republican" project is going well. Comment from January 2nd:
Increasingly clear that Trump "strategy" for the 6th is to try to keep Congress from meeting via civil unrest or who knows what.
*Maybe I should become the leader of a large country full of aggrieved white people.
Stock market is still up for the day, everything's good.
Gov. Northam official Twitter account: "My team and I are working closely with @MayorBowser, @SpeakerPelosi, and
@SenSchumer to respond to the situation in Washington, D.C. Per the Mayor's request, I am sending members of the Virginia National Guard along with 200 Virginia State Troopers." https://twitter.com/GovernorVA
I swear I wrote that a while ago, it was just stuck in my phone's browser
That Kayleigh person says Trump is also sending in the National Guard now. I don't know if that is the same or different from what VA is sending.
25th amendment, people. Even for 2 weeks.
Now we only have to worry whom the federal deployment will be reinforcing. Probably not the Qberts, as the Joint Chiefs and military hierarchy are not on board with coup attempts, but one can't feel fully comfortable.
88 feels like it was written years ago
Looks like the South has risen again, alright
The US has the institutional capacity to deal with this, and the protesters are, in fact, correctly referred to as protesters. They are not conducting a coup. The current CNN web site headline is all caps in huge letters: "ASSAULT ON DEMOCRACY." That's a bit hysterical, but it's a sign that we are moving toward a more normal understanding of what behaviors are tolerable.
Only one person shot so far. This could be a lot worse, and may yet become a lot worse, but so far I think we've been lucky.
The US has the institutional capacity to deal with this, and the protesters are, in fact, correctly referred to as protesters. .... Only one person shot so far.
Seriously?
The only thing distinguishing this from a civil war attempt is level of organization. A guy with a bullhorn just told them about the McEnany announcement and said they should go attack MSNBC and CNN.
I agree we have the institutional capacity to deal with this, if the order is given and obeyed. I'll believe it when I see it.
It's a coup. They are using for to try to block the lawful transition of power.
They may not be conducting a coup, but they're sure as shit attempting one.
That's utter nonsense. These are not protestors. They have literally broken into the capital building, broken into legislators' offices, broken into the House chamber. They are impeding the normal functions of democracy. They're inciting violence against many actors, including legislators, police, and journalists.
This is literally unprecedented in this country. Please, spare us the jadedness. This is _extremely_ dangerous.
Technically, isn't this a really inept putsch? Pence declaring Trump president would be a coup.
Agree with 155. If "coup" must be used very narrowly and carefully, then "rioters" would also be more accurate than "protestors".
This will be some awesome footage to work into campaign ads for the next couple of elections.
I'll go with "rioters." That's the right word.
It's not a putsch unless it started in the Putz region of Germany. Technically.
All these semantic debates are hilarious because the subtext is always "if trump and his followers were not the dumbest fucking clowns on earth, it would be this, but, given that they are, it's that"
152 strikes me as about the dumbest possible to reaction to this. Calling an armed mob storming the Capitol an assault on democracy is hysterical? I mean, impressively blasé of you, but really?
What percent of them can we presume are armed? 60%? 80%?
Trump has tweeted out a video. I'm waiting to see it on the WP stream.
"Go Home." But more importantly, it was stolen and frauduent and unprecedented.
Please, spare us the jadedness. This is _extremely_ dangerous.
I guess "jaded" is a fair description. I'm certainly not denying it's dangerous. But nobody believes that the police and National Guard are going to be shooting at each other, or that either will side with the rioters.
The only thing distinguishing this from a civil war attempt is level of organization.
Well yeah, that and the level of support. But these seem like pretty important distinctions to me.
CNN seems to have calmed down a bit: MOB INVADES US CAPITOL
"We had an election that was stolen from us... but you have to go home now. We have to have peace... Go home, we love you, you're very special."
Twitter: "This claim of election fraud is disputed, and this Tweet can't be replied to, Retweeted, or liked due to a risk of violence."
167: my "too long, didn't listen" to vid in 166.
In other news, Ossoff over .5% threshold in Georgia.
But nobody believes that the police and National Guard are going to be shooting at each other, or that either will side with the rioters.
No one thought it would get as bad as it is now! The uncertainty and risk is highly relevant.
I was about 10% ready for the possibility the video Trump just put out would be the QAnon-awaited instruction uprising.
152 strikes me as about the dumbest possible to reaction to this
He says "You have to go home" even as he continues to say that the election was stolen and fraudulent. Fierce condemnation? Shit.
Extremely reactionary National Association of Manufacturers sends a press release saying Trump incited violence and Pence should consider invoking the 25th.
No one thought it would get as bad as it is now!
Yeah, see, I guess we're back to "jaded" and "blasé," but folks, if only a couple dozen people are killed between now and inauguration day, this is the good outcome. This was never going to end any better than this, and the early signs are that the institutional responses -- which have been routinely awful for literally 20 years, and really bad for 20 years before that -- have been pretty reassuring.
I liked the hysterical CNN headline, and said so. That's a decent institutional response. It's something CNN should have done, oh, for instance, when George W. Bush fired US attorneys for failing to use the legal system to imprison Democratic voters. What country do you think you've been living in?
Nicole Wallace says she thinks Trump will pre-pardon the mob.
168: Yeah, well, here's video that appears to show Capitol Police opening the barricades for the angry mob of rioters, so that's cool. https://twitter.com/cevansavenger/status/1346920924310867968?s=20
No one thought it would get as bad as it is now!
The management of the office building where I work (or would work if I were going into the office) warned us to stay away yesterday and today. My office is in DC, but not close to the Capitol.
I guess we're back to "jaded" and "blasé,"
We sure are.
My mother mostly self identifies as a Republican. I tried to get her to agree that Trump was the worst President ever. She said that she wasn't sure. She thought George W. Bush was pretty terrible for starting the war in Iraq. I wonder what she is thinking now.
My senators' phone lines all seem jammed. I'm calling for immediate impeachment and removal - like, today.
After a few years on the fence, the pandemic brought me over to the Trump side of that debate, but certainly there are still strong arguments in favor of Bush.*
*I mean, really, Buchanan and A. Johnson were probably worse than both.
Some of them are going to get killed tonight, I think. The curfew is unenforceable; someone will shoot at the cops, and the cops will shoot back.
The Proud Boys generally engage in stabbings in DC after dark, but since their idiot leader was idiotically carrying illegal firearms after inviting the police to arrest him, who's to say what they're egging themselves on to tonight.
Gotta say, the failure to hold the Malheur invaders to account is looking worse and worse.
Just heard on WP that the people getting into the building earlier used chemical irritants to push police back.
Gas now billowing on the Capitol steps, and flash-bangs going. This looks to be the actual authorities, led by MPD, "gently" pushing the crowd away.
Trump tells the rioters to go home in a video on Twitter. "This was a fraudulent election, but we can't play into the hands of these people."
Twitter gives the video a tag I haven't seen before: "This claim of election fraud is disputed, and this Tweet can't be replied to, Retweeted, or liked due to a risk of violence"
Saiselgy makes the good point that while their strategic goal of keeping Trump in office is still ultimately doomed, this was a tactical success for the rioters. They were trying to stop Congress from certifying the electoral college vote, and they did.
The police needed to start tear-gassing right-wing protesters like eight months ago.
194: Tammy Duckworth called into CBS from the secure location to which the Senate has been removed and said the certification has resumed.
196: Are you sure she said they had, or just that they would? I see from @edokeefe 46 minutes ago: "Duckworth says Democratic senators are on a group text pushing their leaders to meet w/ Republican leadership to reconvene and continue their work tonight."
BBC says Capitol Police say the building is cleared.
200: Yeah, their pretty credible at this point. (It is probably true, but it is clear that they were indifferently engaged through a lot of this.)
True. Brexit has really taken it out of them.
Based on this video, the Capital police did not appear to have sufficient backup.
I read on Twitter, and confirmed from official sources, that the Capitol Police have 2,300 sworn officers, and their jurisdiction is just the Capitol grounds. (MPD is 3,800 for the whole District.) Seems to me whoever was responsible for their deployment today is complicit, or at best recklessly indifferent.
203: Yep another prescient comment from lurid keyaki a few days ago:
So we get to see what side the state's security forces are on? Cool, cool.
Yeah, I guess they left the one black cop to protect the Senate with a billy club. Certainly based on the video in 180, there is much to answer for.
DOD "concerned" about the image of uniformed troops in the Capitol. Well yeah, me fucking too. But better that than protestors looking for hostage opportunities.
203: The right wing paramilitaries have been openly organizing today's insurrection for weeks. Heads should roll at the Capitol Police.
Facebook took down Trump's video. He also just tweeted text very similar to his video - justifying the violence and interspersing it with "go home". This feels egregious enough I could imagine Twitter finally deleting his account?
My senators' phone lines all seem jammed. I'm calling for immediate impeachment and removal - like, today.
Yes. I did the same. Got only voicemail. 45 incited insurrection and must be removed and barred from office. Pence can be president for two weeks.
Curfew has been expanded to my side of the river: Arlington and Alexandria.
All these semantic debates are hilarious because the subtext is always "if trump and his followers were not the dumbest fucking clowns on earth, it would be this, but, given that they are, it's that"
I think that's fair, but to be clear, my stance here isn't the result of minimizing Trump and his minions. It's the opposite.
Sept. 23, 2020:
Q: Will you commit to making sure there is a peaceful transferal of power after the election?
A: Well we're going to have to see what happens.
This was no subtle dog-whistle, and it wasn't a one-off comment. It was Trump's official position. What were people expecting? (I know, I know: They were expecting that Trump and his followers were the dumbest fucking clowns on earth.)
It's only today that CNN, after a telegenic but limited riot, discovered an ASSAULT ON US DEMOCRACY. I can't help but regard that discovery as a step forward.
Okay, in the middle of all of this, looking down the barrel of an ugly night in DC, I did crack up at the guy tweeting only "Thus endeth dry January."
(I am not in DC, but I wish safety on those who are.)
I hope that this radicalizes some of the Dems in Congress. I really don't think many of them take the lawlessness of the Republicans as seriously as they should.
Markey called for impeachment on twitter. My rep Katherine Clark, also assistant Speaker has called for his removal from office. Nothing from Warren.
210 made me laugh. She's almost sympathetic - I mean, tear gas hurts! - until the very end when he asks, "what were you trying to do?" and she says, "Start a revolution!" Then it's just funny.
Certification starting again tonight, maybe as early as 8 EST.
Twitter deletes the Trump video.
Apparently he is in Twitter timeout now.
Yes, 12 hours to remove his "this is what you get for stealing my election" tweet or he's permanently banned.
Trump represents a comprehensive failure of American institutions. Twitter should have locked the fucker out the first time he said Obama was born in Kenya. But better late ...
152 strikes me as about the dumbest possible to reaction to this.
- Wrong.
(Bothsides edition - i.e. less factually delusional, but more bothersome because more indicative of elite pathologies.)
I find it gratifying that we are able to uncover stupider people than me.
Here's the video of the woman protester/rioter getting shot in the neck.
https://twitter.com/dhookstead/status/1346914290553516032
227:.Can you tell what's happening there? Another video shows people saying she go shot trying to climb in a window.
225: Oh, this one is going to be hard to top and if anyone does, I probably won't want to know.
228: There were people outside smashing windows to get in but that one looks like they were smashing the glass on an interior door to access a part of the building or an office or something. Here's a window smash.
https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1346910919729631238
So far, there's been minimal violence against rioters and maybe the thing has been cleared up without anybody getting killed. To all appearances, it's been a fine performance by police. Everybody should be treated like white people.
To all appearances, it's been a fine performance by police.
Are you trolling? I honestly cannot tell, although I'm guessing not.
If cops treated actual protesters that way, it would be laudable. The leadership's planning-to-fail, as well as arrests being in the low single digits, is deplorable.
"This violence was, in large part, President Trump's responsibility." - Schumer
After various pieties and vaguely defending the desire to clear up uncertainty, smug shit Lankford ends by saying he understands the commission they wanted is not happening and Congress is moving toward certifying Biden tonight. Not clear if that means the objecting senators will withdraw objections after this debate.
Are you trolling?
Maybe? I'm not sure. I can tell you that I'm sincerely glad there wasn't more bloodshed, and it's my best guess, pending further evidence, that police behavior saved lives today at a cost of nothing important. I don't know if I'm interested in defending this as a logical argument; I'm mostly just telling you how I feel.
We can make fun of the woman in 210, but I'm for-real glad she's not dead. I wish we lived in a world where the Black Lives Matter folks could storm the Capitol and be managed without undue violence.
I do recognize the underlying problem with this: We can't enforce laws racially. If going 60 in a 55 mph zone is a crime for Black people but not whites, then we really do improve justice by making it a crime for white people to drive 60 mph. But I'd still rather solve police malfeasance by having everybody treated like white folks.
Loeffler, sounding tired, drops her objection.
239.1: Part of me leans that way, but two concerns. First, some portion of the mob was armed and had been whipping itself up on social media to go execute enemies of the people. We know now that it stayed all performative, but it wasn't safe to assume that earlier. And second, there are paper and electronic records in the US Capitol that really do need to be kept secure, and it's mind-boggling that the Capitol Police weren't able to maintain physical barricades to keep the mob out of those places.
Obama gets it. You want to keep today's riot from repeating? You confront the cause.
Tommy Tuberville gets sworn in and the Capitol's defense immediately falls apart.
Heh.
It turns out that getting take-out pizza is a great way to forget about political violence, at least if you get in a minor car collision on the way there.
Is it my imagination, or have drivers become worse since the pandemic? I'm pretty sure I've become a worse driver.
239: Nothing important??
Right-wing paramilitary forces invaded our national legislature, forced legislators to abandon proceedings, broke into the offices of their opposition, and left without incurring any significant consequences, at least in the moment. They won the battle that they chose.
What lesson, seriously, do you think they take away from this? Is this more or less likely to recur, and if (when) it does recur, are the consequences likely to be worse for all parties?
I think I'm finally understanding my conflict here with the Unfogged Consensus. Today's events, taken as a whole, strike me as having produced the best single day this country has had in four years or more. I can't think of the last time that our society -- the mainstream media, the politicians, the voters, the social media, the military, the Democrats and yes, even the Republicans and the police -- exceeded reasonable expectations.
Can I defend that? I'm not sure. But I'm here to tell you, I feel good. For the first time in something like 40 years, I am willing to entertain the possibility that we have hit bottom.
They won the battle that they chose.
That's right, and I should have mentioned that in 247. They chose a battle where victory does the maximum possible damage to their cause. Thank God they didn't lose and create a bunch of martyrs.
I don't see how the police can exceed expectations by not murdering white people who are rioting on behalf of a right wing cause. That is literally the most predictable thing ever. I'm honestly surprised they didn't just let them wander around the Capitol for months like the Bundy's.
Lindsay Graham is totally loaded on the Senate floor right now.
CBS reports that cabinet members are seriously discussing invoking the 25th amendment and ending Trump's term early.
Senate votes 93-6 (Hawley, Cruz, Turberville, not sure who else) to reject AZ objection. We'll see if the Coup Fighters object to another. The next alphabetically is GA. This will tell us how close we are to the Cruz singularity- if he protests another the density of pure hatred from his colleagues may form a black hole.
WTF. During the roll call in the Senate, almost all of the female senators are "Mrs." or "Miss". Yes, including "Mrs. Harris" and "Mrs. Warren". Also, I hadn't known that Miss Hassan is single.
NBC reports McConnell near a deal to have no Senators support any further objections, ending the process. Hawley might be the only holdout.
Ah, the woman who got shot in the Capitol died. That's too bad.
***Live Updates*** Capitol Chaos
Protesters Storm D.C.
Guns Drawn in House Chamber
National Guard, FBI Deployed
Woman Dies From Gun Shot to Neck
Social Media Locks Out Trump
Biden to Trump: 'demand an end to this siege'
Obama: Violence Incited by Trump
Curfews Called in D.C., Virginia
Lawmakers Call for Trump's Removal
These are the current headlines on Breitbart.
248: It's entirely possible I am wrong and man oh man I would I ever love to be but: my read is that the institution actors are so taken aback by today's insurrection that they're going to try to move forward and just pretend it never happened.
Woman killed was USAF security official with four tours. I'm sure she was the only crazy person in the armed forces.
"Matt Gaetz is on the House floor now blaming antifa for the riots on the Capitol, to applause. Just in case there was question about today fundamentally changing things for House Republicans."
https://twitter.com/Mr_Berman/status/1347020289947947008?s=20
Also everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that Pence illegally activated the national guard. He has no authority to do so but apparently the joint chiefs went to him- don't know if they didn't want to ask Trump (138 above) or if they did and he refused.
245: It seems like it, but drivers here in MA were bad (by my lights) even before COVID
A House Democrat voted yes on AZ objection? WTF?
It's gone. Someone must have pushed the wrong button.
It's hard to remember if A or B is for treason.
When is the last time Trump was heard from?
It's hard for him to communicate without Twitter. I guess he could call into Fox News.
Read now on Twitter that 3 other people died at the Capitol today.
Are the R's still conspiring to run down the clock to midnight for some purpose? The refusal to vacate the floor, the speakers going on after the timer has reached 0:00 -- is this meant to prevent acceptance of electoral votes?
266:. The other three died in medical emergencies. What does that mean? The excitement gave them heart attacks?
Also everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that Pence illegally activated the national guard. He has no authority to do so but apparently the joint chiefs went to him- don't know if they didn't want to ask Trump (138 above) or if they did and he refused.
There seem to be conflicting reports - it could have been that they conferred with Pence and then used their authority to activate without asking Trump's permission.
I assumed since (a) McConnell effectively whipped most of his side to reject the objection, and (b) relative insider Chip Roy did a gambit over the weekend to weaken the objections in advance, that there was a leadership push in the House parallel to McConnell's. But in fact most House GOP voted to sustain the objection, including the minority leader and whip. The future of the Republican Party: far worse than McConnell.
I just cannot get over the photos of these deranged lunatics having a jolly romp in the capitol building.
Potential protest for Georgia coming up...
That fucker Connor Lamb beat in his first race was one of the invaders.
Wow, the Senate objectors have had enough?
I heard something implying maybe they'll come back for Pennsylvania in particular.
This is the densest I've ever heard the word "therefrom".
Yes, maybe a protest for Pennsylvania or Wisconsin
(Is this comment regular in form and authentic?)
The Michigan objection dies for lack of a Senator.
As does Nevada's.
I think Michigan had 70-80 House objectors and Nevada only had 55.
Yes. Now on New York, after this 5 more and then Pennsylvania.
Indeed. A lot of states starting with "N!"
And a senator objected to Pennsylvania.
Hope they have a couple of coffeemakers.
How late can these senior citizens stay up? My parents crash out around 11pm.
Holy shit what a thing to wake up to
It sounds like the Senate may yield its time, but the House is likely to take all night, because there will probably be an objection to Wisconsin as well.
I can't imagine Hawley or Cruz is going to object to Wisconsin.
In the debate over Arizona, Hawley made his case about Pennsylvania, saying it was the instance he'd studied. The Wisconsin objections are way lamer than the Pennsylvania objection he makes, and it's plenty lame.
I'm not paying close attention, but the House objectors don't seem to be taking their whole 5 minutes.
I want la website where you can enter a name and check to see if they weren't involved with this or Trump"a other crimes. Obviously, you can google, but that gets hard with common names and might read the innocent. Because my main thing is going to be making sure that if I'm ever in a position to cut the amount of power one of them can exercise over others, I want to be sure I don't miss it.
I should probably sleep. That's not even my phone's fault.
One more here relieved that there is a floor this year.
I'm worried about next time as well, but less worried about next year.
Allegedly one of those three medical emergency related deaths happened when someone shot themselves with a taser and then had a heart attack.
Hmm, local rep Conor Lamb who can blue dog it a bit (he did not vote for Pelosi for Speaker for instance) gave a very pointed speech pointing out the R lies. Rs tried to strike some words and two reps physically confronted each other.
296: Just six days in, 2021 has a strong contender for its eventual Darwin Award champion.
247- I will believe you are right about the country hitting rock bottom when the people who incited this insurrection go to jail. I wouldn't object to the rioters, and the cops who abetted them being prosecuted either.
The worst is not
So long as we can say "This is the worst."
Small world: a high-school friend of mine interacting with Kieran Healy over whether the events at the Capitol were literally a coup.
https://twitter.com/naunihalpublic/status/1347177823585361922?s=21
the pushback against use of the word "coup" would be more convincing if the folks obsessively policing the vocabulary showed any evidence of meaningful dialogue with scholars of white radicalism in the us. whatever you want to call it, kathleen belew, cynthia miller idriss, cassie miller, the journalism of leah sottile - these are the people i've found illuminating, insightful, *useful*.
i could not disagree more with the "we've finally hit the bottom" sentiment. this was their charivari, they've got their martyr - without a firm, coordinated, implacable federal response targeted at white supremacy they'll continue.
Edgar is exactly right; every pronouncement that things can't be worse is wrong.
I think impeachment is in order. It ratchets up the risk that he tries an actual military coup -- he might be smart (or savvy?) enough to see from the reaction to his mob-coup attempt that he'd fail, without some sort of higher level of provocation than his bogus stolen election line. And there is some reason to hope that while the white supremacist core isn't going gently away, letting them cool off a bit isn't a bad idea. But still, he's a danger to all of us.
Would he pardon the mob if he knew their names? He totally will on his last day, he cannot have been clearer about that since he was a candidate in 2016 promising to pay the legal fees if his supporters get it trouble for beating up demonstrators. This wasn't likely the reason that people weren't arrested yesterday -- my guess is that the orders from congressional leadership were to focus on getting the building back up and running -- but it's a side effect.
301 and 304: To be clear: I said I was willing to entertain the possibility, and that's what I meant. I wasn't predicting anything.
303: Yeah, Naun/ihal Si/ngh captures my view on that with precision.
Doesn't a coup have to succeed to be a "coup"? Wasn't yesterday more of an "attempted coup"?
It wasn't a 'military coup', if that matters.
I would find Singh's perspective more convincing if I actually saw an enumeration of the names of the forms of anti-democratic power seizing and the best response to them. Absent that, it feels like a slightly more sophisticated form of language policing (with a heavy emphasis on the "sophist" part).
Yeah, I feel like English use is often irregular about whether prefixing "attempted" is mandatory or if leaving it out ruins a definition. It matters in a court of law, elsewhere...
If it's not a coup, what is it? An attempted revolution?
I think ongoing attempted autogolpe is the best description.
RNC meeting attendees enthusiastically applaud trump when he dials in this morning.
Insurrection, maybe? I'm not currently in touch with Naunihal, I haven't spoken to him since our 20th high school reunion, but I'd generally assume that he's making a good-faith effort toward clarity and precision rather than trying to minimize the situation.
There is a great deal of ruin in a nation.
I think the fact that 317 is correct muddies the issue of how to characterize where we are. And American exceptionalism will blind most of us for some time to come, although yesterday should help take that down a notch.
That the House is going out of session until after the inauguration only contributes to my sense that the dominant institutional reaction to this insurrection will be to pretend it never happened.
If the US Capitol being literally overrun by right-wing paramilitary forces allied with the outgoing president doesn't prompt an emergency session... what even is the point?
Plus, you can't impeach if you aren't there.
It really shows that the 25th Amendment was drafted in the jet age, as unlike the rest of the Constitution it presumes that Congress is physically able to convene with only two days' notice.
Perdue conceding in Georgia is good news. I feared dragged out legal stuff delaying Dem majority. His margin turned out to be higher than I anticipated 45K (~1%). Warnock at 83K. I think provisionals and some odds and sods left, si=o i ssupect will go marginally higher.
Yeah, it was looking for a minute like the new normal is that no Republican ever concedes, and now it doesn't seem like that's going to happen. We'll see how things play out in the PA senate though.
Assuming the OP is thinking of the same photo I'm thinking of,. Are we all aware that it is a picture of a sexual assault? The woman was interviewed much later and said that she had consented neither to be missed nor to be photographed. Of course she never saw a red cent from it either.
Ideally can't recommend this as a strategy to the Democratic Party or indeed anybody else.
Von Wafer pointed it out above.
Ah, damn. I didn't quite realize VW was referencing a known problem.
Yeah, it came out not all that long ago, which could mean fifteen years, I'm not sure when. The nurse came forward and said that she had been grabbed unwillingly and was not happy about it.