Latest development in my office life -- I'm back to having my own office! Apparently other staff complained about having to wear a mask the whole day, so management decided to give us all offices.
I found out last Friday that a former colleague here in Philadelphia has a breakthrough case. She was on Day 9 of isolation when I talked to her. Sounded like Covid was no joke even for a fully-vaccinated 40-something athletic and active person. It's unclear whether her 7-year-old got it at summer camp and gave it to her, or she got it from the grocery store and gave it to him.
I never stopped being cautious (i.e., always wearing a mask indoors, limiting time spent indoors in public places to less than 30 min total/week) because there are young kids and immune-compromised people in my small family circle. So the Delta variant doesn't feel like a big change for me in the day to day, but does feel like more worry on behalf of other people.
I found out last Friday that a former colleague here in Philadelphia has a breakthrough case. She was on Day 9 of isolation when I talked to her. Sounded like Covid was no joke even for a fully-vaccinated 40-something athletic and active person. It's unclear whether her 7-year-old got it at summer camp and gave it to her, or she got it from the grocery store and gave it to him.
I never stopped being cautious (i.e., always wearing a mask indoors, limiting time spent indoors in public places to less than 30 min total/week) because there are young kids and immune-compromised people in my small family circle. So the Delta variant doesn't feel like a big change for me in the day to day, but does feel like more worry on behalf of other people.
I thought this was a particularly well-done piece in the genre of Covid tragedy stories. These pieces have evolved in a way that is interesting to me: This is the second one I've seen recently where the obvious question isn't answered: Was the victim vaccinated?
Here is as close as the story gets to addressing the issue:
She was angry, too. At the people who refused to get vaccinated, who talked constantly about the virus as a hoax even as the delta variant surged. Her own mother had said to her after Alan's death that the pandemic was being exaggerated by the media.
Oops. Meant to post that elsewhere. To bring it on-topic, I'll say that I'm having a particularly hard time assimilating the news these days -- stories like the link in 5 are having a real negative impact on me. I hope I'm not spreading too much of my sense of doom (but it really is a beautifully executed piece).
Delta hasn't changed my behavior much yet, but it's made me a bit more worried about how things go in the longterm. I'd thought we were ending up with one more slightly more contagious version of flu, but instead we're going to end up with a much more contagious one. I've gotten very sick with the flu around once a decade, and I'd hoped that covid would end up being less frequent than that, but it's now looking like maybe it'll be more frequent. Maybe something like you catch it two or three times a decade but with a severity that varies between a cold and a bad flu. And the odds of dying from pneumonia or dying from cancer (which are the two that are going to get you eventually) have shifted a bit towards the former.
I feel very much more externally concerned than internally concerned, compared to a year ago. Going into school last year felt like my household was risking our health and well-being. Going into school this year feels largely safe for me and my loved ones, and so I'm gravely concerned but much more abstractly, about the larger population.
8: Stories like Walt's 3 are getting into my mind; after vaccination, I was wearing masks "for others" more than anything. With the stories of the breakthroughs and how miserable even mild Covid can be, I'm back to clutching masks like a comforting blanket. I'd hoped that as vaccinations increased, I'd be able to get sloppier and more casual with masking, but Delta doesn't seem to be playing along properly.
That said, I have internalized outdoors as powerfully protective, so my masking is limited to indoors public spaces, and my post-excursions in the world washing up is less thorough than pre-vaccination.
5: Jesus Christ, what a fucked up country. Those medical bills! The therapist, even. The student loans just to move to a slightly better paid bullshit job.
The story also feels incredibly intrusive, in some way, especially the photograph of her exhausted sleep -- there's such a vibe of "look at the poor person from the comfort of your glass bottomed boat", when a good many of the readers could simply write the poor woman a cheque without feeling the pain.
But if he weighed 350 pounds that's a serious comorbidity right there. 145 kilos in real money. I don't think vaccination was the real problem.
8: School seems scarier, because the Governor won't mandate masks for the under 12s. He's not banning them - just leaving them up to cities and towns. I do worry about Long Covid.
7 It also sounds like you could be out for longer with a medium-ish non-hospital level COVID. So, like in a couple of years, You get COVID, and you lose 10 days of PTO which means you don't get to take a real vacation that year., because you only get 15 days or because you get sick and your kids do too.
9: If I were the kind of person who went to outdoor concerts in pits where people are crowded together, like Lollapalooza, I'd probably wear a mask then. But I never did stuff like that before.
learned about 2 breakthrough infections in fully vaxxed folks that have caused serious syx - not hospitalized, but no joke - in last week alone. plus 3 breakthrough infections in fully vaxxed members of swim club, severity unknown. delta not fooling around.
5: from the article:
Her drive to work every week took her past the big hospital -- CoxHealth Medical Center -- where Alan spent his last days. There was no vaccine available then. Nurses had held a phone to Alan's ears so Lisa could whisper her last words to him before they put him on a ventilator. [. . .]
She'd gotten vaccinated...
It took a while for the personal catastrophe to unfold, I think. I assume 90% of the 2,600 comments are unsolicited financial "advice", as always.
Maybe I'll need to stop going to the pool for a bit. But I'm still building up to a reasonable distance.
13: Zero communication from the school district, with in-person instruction still planned starting in a week. I am not optimistic about a Zoom-free year, and I'll probably sit Elke down soon and tell her, okay, real talk, there is probably going to be a rash of Delta cases before Labor Day and you probably need to wear a better mask than the one you love so much that leaves gaps around your nose. I swear that this mask is one of those little things that boost morale inordinately; maybe I'll try to stick a wire in it. Any sewing experts here with advice about what to use? Or a good N95 recommendation for a ten-year-old?
16 💔, my bf's 5 yr old heading back to school & sfusd won't require vaccines for employees, & no online option. grotesque. apparently families with immunocompromised members are supposed to take their chances.
If we're playing fucked-upped-ness poker, may I submit a state ban on public schools requiring masks? And if you send your kid in with a mask, teachers are supposedly not allowed to remind the kid to put it back on, per parents wishes? AND school districts are not allowed to offer remote school without loss of funding? (ie you can't count remote students towards your attendance and funding is based on a DAILY attendance formula. It's absurd.)
The anti-mask mandate is the one that blows my mind the most.
It's incomprehensible. I feel awful for the population of Heebiestate.
We've got the power of magical thinking on our side.
"Employees are strongly encouraged to wash their hands after using the restroom."
My hope is that the Delta variant prompts the FDA to move up the emergency authorization on the 2-12 year olds. I heard a rumor that a study was completed in Israel that could be enough, but maybe Ydnew will weigh in on that?
16: Mask lab has respirators for adults - with neat patterns! - but for kids it's just surgical masks.
Not an n-95, but I have and like the INEX mask a lot. It has a filter and good fit, and they make kids versions.
https://www.inexgear.com/collections/the-better-mask-for-kids
I bought masks from vida last year, so their respirator could be good. (Nbcnews recommends them.)
https://shopvida.com/products/kids-fda-registered-kn95-face-mask?utm_source=pepperjam&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=21181&clickId=3659218117#208001102402
I saw an East Asian mother and daughter both wearing their respirators the other day. It was actually kind of cute.
19: what about the right to homeschool? Also, isn't Dallas going to implement a mask mandate in defiance of the order?
24: I think it would be 5-11. I think then it's 6 months to 4.
The public school in the city here is talking out layoffs because so many kids went to cyber-based charter schools instead.
19: School districts generally lose money when parents homeschool their kids. Still available as an option.
I'd believe it, about Dallas. Austin did so, and they're just forgoing the money lost.
20: it's unreal. I think we'll manage with Pebbles' kindergarten class. The teacher and principal are in favor of masking and are exploring their options to figure out how to request it legally. I have about 15% of the parents agreeing to mask and I'm pretty confident that I can get that to half. The Calabat's school is going for "we respect your freedom" but about 25% of the parents are my peers so maybe we can make it work.
Jammies reports that most high school teachers were not wearing masks at the first day back for teachers thing today.
They just aren't trying very hard to find a mask that everyone would love.
I misread BG's comment above and just realized it when I read about Dallas ISD mandating masks, and Houston ISD is about to. That's so great - I'm relieved that the big school districts are going to fight the lawsuits.
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/08/09/texas-mask-order-schools/
We use these kids KF94. They're expensive but our kids don't mind wearing them and they're reusable several times. Our youngest played hockey with one on- we had one in her bag for each day of practice each week.
Our district announced masks required for everyone indoor regardless of vaccination status plus weekly pooled surveillance testing encouraged but not required, and all rooms must meet 4 air exchanges per hour. Vaccine mandate for teachers still TBD- only current mandate is volunteers, chaperones, and staff traveling on district business.
We're stressing about indoor masking because our kid is maddeningly picky about what he'll allow on his face, and none of the things he's OK with (Vistaprint, Everbrand) are really very good at filtration (and he won't wear them well-fitted, either). We'd love to invest in a big pile of KF94 but without his cooperation it's a waste. He's been cooperative about wearing masks at all, and I feel like I should be grateful about that, but going into indoor public schools with ill-fitting cloth is going to be an ongoing source of anxiety for the indefinite future.
We're stressing about indoor masking because our kid is maddeningly picky about what he'll allow on his face, and none of the things he's OK with (Vistaprint, Everbrand) are really very good at filtration (and he won't wear them well-fitted, either). We'd love to invest in a big pile of KF94 but without his cooperation it's a waste. He's been cooperative about wearing masks at all, and I feel like I should be grateful about that, but going into indoor public schools with ill-fitting cloth is going to be an ongoing source of anxiety for the indefinite future.
I walked to Whole Foods for milk tonight. All staff wearing masks, though one guy had his below his nose. It looked like it was 100% of customers, but the.n a I saw a few teenagers and 2 other adults not masked.
My son's mask keeps going below his nose. I think his head got bigger over the summer.
Our sad and nerve-wracking extended family Covid vaccine mini-drama unfortunately continues (context: daughter-in-law due in early Sept., her mother who lives on the property in a yurt--but is often in the house for various activities--had been resisting vaccination).
2 weeks ago good news was she got vaccinated (as did her live-in boyfriend) after some baby-based emotional blackmail. Bad news is several days later they both started feeling sick and blamed it on vaccine reaction, but it was pretty clearly the thing itself. We arrived a day or so later for long-planned visit (staying at very nearby cabins rather than the house). A couple of days later my son took the quite sick duo to be tested, and yes they were positive . The boyfriend is quite sick and should be in the hospital but they don't really believe in standard medicine plus no med insurance plus they believe the vaccine is why they are sick. DIL is so fed up (and pregnant) she basically has nothing to do with them so my son has been running food, water, pulse oximeters and what-have-you out to the yurt. We (wife plus my 2 other children--all of us fully-vaccinated) did a mix of vacating and mostly outdoor chores and projects at their place (they are in the midst of establishing a small market farm ... timing is the secret to comedy and tragedy ...). As you may imagine not the most relaxing trip for anyone. Probably should have cancelled but we did have a ton of baby stuff such as a crib to deliver and they did seem glad to have us around. I did have a semi-shouted outdoors-to-yurt-porch-conversation with the COVIDteers the day we left and was pleased to see the BF vertical and participating but he is clearly exhausted from the virus.
Son and DIL tested negative last week, son got another test today. We are back in P'burgh and quarantining. Probably will get a test, although my doctor's office did not think it necessary. Son and DIL were going to try to force the BF to hospital today but have not heard if they even attempted it.
Bazzfazz.
WOW. That's a whole lotta mess packed into one trip.
Hope the best for them. Fortunately, young people are resilient and yurts are awesome.
40: Yes. And the margins of the comment box are too small for a full explication. I did get a lot of walking in, and saw and heard some neat birds. Got up to one peak with my 2 sons (short walk road nearly to the top) and then geeked out with them for about an hour on a rock outcrop trying to positively identify where his house was in the distance. At home today, I meddled around with some online photos taken from that outcrop and Google Earth trying to really nail it down. In the process I did a rapid Google Earth "flyover" of the terrain in between and managed to make myself quite nauseous.
So that was fun, but in the end we cut the outing short as my son's anxiety/guilt about having a pregnant wife and two COVID patients back home came to the fore.
"COVIDteers" - an instant classic. all solidarity to the pregnant one 💪.
16: I don't know how reliable this is, but here is a video review by someone who allegedly has a background in aerosol science.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE5Uo3F2TdU
24: The FDA approval seems snarled for kids, looking from the outside. Pfizer said they expected to file for approval in September. Trials on 6-11 year olds are filled, no longer recruiting (roughly 3600 kids, I think, was the target enrollment), and the FDA just asked them a few weeks ago to double their numbers to ensure they catch rare adverse events. I'm not sure how they can do that (they are arguing their enrollment is sufficient) and still keep the timeline. Pfizer's trials on 6 months-5 years are still enrolling, which means those won't have data for a few months at least. Moderna is still enrolling, but I suspect they aimed for a larger initial pool of enrollees. I can't see whether they are also running two groups by age. JNJ has been enrolling down to 6 months for a while, but I haven't seen a projected application date.
So, in short, I'd been hoping for an initial EUA in Sept., but that seems sadly unlikely at this point. I hope it will be by Nov., but I don't think we'll get kids vaxxed before the holidays.
45: Someone else I follow on twitter was kind of baffled by this vis a vis Pfizer, because 7,000 didn't seem like a big enough number to catch the rare events.
45: I don't know exactly, but I guess they've been watching something in particular and want to have solid statistics. Like, a 1/1000 risk of something and 3 cases wasn't enough to be confident of frequency.
Also, re: masks and kids, I'll just recite the cliché I use at work: the safety gear you use will always work better than the safety gear you don't. Demetech makes really nice quality N95s and they make a small size with published dimensions. They might fit an older kid if you get the model with a vertical fold, but any way you cut it, N95s are not very comfortable.
Some ancillary spice for the trip was provided by
- one of us travelers having a UTI throughout
- one of us having lost our wallet a few days before (me--first time in many, many years)
- one of us having forgotten to bring their Wellbutrin (and amply demonstrating that it is in fact a valuable prescription for them)
-- bat in my daughter's loft bedroom the last evening
Still, having a yurt is a life goal I've yet to achieve.
Also if my med providers are an indication, I can see why US has such a comparatively low testing rate. They weren't quite "You're vaxxed, why are you even considering a test?" but close to that. Also when explaining my possible contacts I mentioned that my son had tested positive last week but was getting another test today and the nurse asked "Why would he do that?" You know other than 6 subsequent days of caring for people with COVID I guess...
42: It does make a nice space. And this one has a nice view of a pond and the Blue Ridge. And theoretically they will be adding a 2nd yurt.
A corn cob yurt plus a sod yurt = Moby paradise.
I keep looking at state forest camp leases, but they are so expensive and I think they only have regular cabins.
36: both of my kids were in school in masks last year, and both used cloth masks, as did most of their classmates. Utah didn't bother with distancing and while we saw a surge in the fall like everywhere else, it wasn't noticeably worse than other places without school. A KN95 would be marginally better, but on the assumption that kids aren't going to wear them perfectly and that most of the benefit results from everyone masking even imperfectly (my mask protects you etc.), I wouldn't stress about getting a perfect seal. We are switching to 3-ply surgical masks for the fall partially because they're a good compromise and partially because the Calabat managed to get dry erase marker on all of his masks. They all look spotted with mold.
This seems like a good explainer on trial size and power.
My FIL is getting sucked into antivax bullshit which is not surprising since he's been sucked into other Fox News shit. He is already vaccinated so whatever but he sent me a YouTube video that was already taken down before I could watch it. His summary was don't they have a point that natural infection is better than vaccines because vaccines are just one target that mutants will evade so we should accept natural infection instead.
I found a cloth mask of Steady's that I had packed up and it had gotten lightly moldy and I considered washing it for a couple minutes before I thought 'gross, he puts that on his face' and I threw it out. Some types of frugality are too much frugality.
It's like bread is cheap so you throw away the whole loaf for even a bit of mold, but cheese is expensive so you cut off the moldy bit and eat the rest.
I shoulda just cut out the middle part that goes over his mouth.
On a per use basis, the mask is bread not cheese.
50: Knowing the people in the office somewhat well, I think they are approaching everything in a narrowly-focused risk to JP Stormcrow as an individual patient from this particular thing and not in any broader public health sense of, tracking infections and whatnot. I dunno, maybe that's most appropriate for individual doctors but I do not think it is serving society overall well. In particular given how "reasonable" conservatives seem to be going all the way in on "Why would you even care what I do?" take.
61: See for instance this gem from Noah Rothman in response to the story on the fake vaccine card industrial complex.
Noah Rothman
@NoahCRothman
This is going to sound flip, but I would very much like to hear a dispassionate case for why the average vaccinated adult w/o comorbidities or vulnerable family should care.
The Associated Press
@AP
With more than 600 U.S. colleges and universities now requiring proof of COVID-19 vaccination, an industry has sprung up offering fake vaccine cards. Sellers on the dark web are offering vaccine cards, certificates and passports -- some for as much as $400. http://apne.ws/nXvbXNW
@NoahCRothman
I get why the vulnerable would care. Their level of risk is higher and should behave accordingly. I get why social engineers and public policy folks would care, but most of you are neither. Why should you care? What risk is being imposed on you when others do this?
It's like Sting said, only Russian mothers love their children.
Also Patrick Ruffini:
Patrick Ruffini @PatrickRuffini
The logical solution here if you're vaccinated is not to be too concerned with what the other 30% are doing, because you are protected. It's the 30% who should be concerned, but if they aren't, that's not your problem.
I think they are approaching everything in a narrowly-focused risk to JP Stormcrow as an individual patient from this particular thing and not in any broader public health sense of, tracking infections and whatnot. I dunno, maybe that's most appropriate for individual doctors but I do not think it is serving society overall well.
Great example of the distinction between medicine and public health as fields of endeavor, though.
Between masks and glasses, evolution is working its way to stronger ears.
56: Best birthday ever. I am so delighted.
I was wondering how you're enjoying the news. Will NYC be celebrating? Street parties?
55: Neither my dad nor my pregnant wingnut sister will get vaccinated. Both believe somehow that the virus was created in a Chinese lab but also that it's only really killed 13,000 people (me: so they created a shitty bioweapon that happened to launch at exactly the same time as the mysterious deaths of 600k+ people? what timing!), and that the mRNA vaccine is gene therapy. Wingnut is now refusing all vaccinations while pregnant, which has made her totally crazy (refusing all early prenatal care, refusing vaccines, planning birth center birth as an elderly primagravida*) One can't win.
57: We figured out that it was dry erase marker after observing him get marker all over his chin by resting it on his marker while thinking. Same thinking position in school = marked up masks. I hate dry erase markers.
65: There's a lot of confusion about the distinction in the popular press and thinking. COVID for me is likely not to be a serious personal health risk (I'm vaccinated, otherwise fit, etc.), but it's still a public health crisis (new variant, low local vaccination rate, etc.), but a lot of the messaging aims to get people to take the public health risk seriously by focusing on the threat to their personal health.
*just because the terminology cracks me up.
71: a friend of mine who is a veterinarian, so fairly medically savvy, can't convince her Dad. He is not Catholic, but halos gotten obsessed about the use of fetal cells in vaccine development. She is about to visit her mother and step Dad in San Diego. Her Dad lives in Phoenix, but he thinks it's too liberal now that the State went Democratic.
COVID for me is likely not to be a serious personal health risk (I'm vaccinated, otherwise fit, etc.), but it's still a public health crisis (new variant, low local vaccination rate, etc.), but a lot of the messaging aims to get people to take the public health risk seriously by focusing on the threat to their personal health.
Yeah, I'm in the same boat and it's frustrating. I get why the messaging is framed the way it is, and it's not like I have a better idea, but it leads directly to responses like in Stormcrow's 62/64, and that just adds an additional layer of confusion to the already chaotic discourse.
I mean there is a selfish reason for us to care, which is that we might like get in a car accident or have a heart attack and want to go to the hospital and get timely treatment from competent professionals who have slept recently.
Can I apply to be Lieutenant Governor of New York? I'm not willing to relocate, but I'm fine with travel five days a month or less.
I should clarify that I'm fine with travel to New York in general, but I'm not going to Albany.
79: No one wants to go to Albany. If they insist on that, they'll never find any one.
I guess I could go once. I've never seen it. Or Harrisburg for that matter.
81: If you're actually willing to go to Albany, I'd say you're a shoo-in. Congratulations, Lieutenant Governor!
Out of curiosity, does anyone else who read Bring the War Home (or not) have thoughts or feelings about the current situation in Afghanistan?
I haven't read it, but definitely have feelings.
I've been working with an Afghan guy (in Kabul) on getting out since late 2015 -- there've been ups and downs, but right now the sand is really slipping through the hourglass.
I haven't read it, but keeping up with what's happening is a challenge- mostly I read Reuters and the AP (and journalist Bilal Sarwary), which are all grim:
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taliban-tighten-control-afghan-north-residents-weigh-options-2021-08-10/
Apparently Pakistan is now enforcing visa checks at Taliban-controlled border crossings. I don't understand Pakistan well enough to know whether Imran Khan can give orders to the security services, or how to find that out. It seems like an important question to assess what's happening in Afghanistan.
84.2: ugh, anything any of us can do to pressure the government? Or otherwise?
(Also, thanks to Bostoniangirl and the rest of you for mask recommendations -- I appreciate them.)
I'm not at all in a position to write out my thoughts and/or feelings on the war right now, but maybe that would be a good exercise. Spencer Ackerman's book got a glowing review in the Times, fwiw.
86. Thanks, but probably not. We used some outside influence a year ago to good effect, but the channel we used is now closed. I am calling the embassy tonight on the miniscule possibility that I can get a human to talk to me. My guy qualifies under new programs, but having a pending matter under the old program seems to be a barrier. In short, nothing new in bureaucracy from the time of the Sumerian empire to the present.
87 People should consider subscribing to Ackerman's substack. Speaking of substacks, Charlie Warzel's entry from yesterday -- https://warzel.substack.com/p/i-need-to-stop-scrolling -- will ring with people.
further to dalriata's observations on the state of the tube system in London: travel only in peak times* if you can. Yesterday I had to cross London to the national archives in Kew, at about eleven, and the Picadilly line was crammed as it used to be -- enough that I really worried about the health implications. I returned around five thirty and it was fine. Office culture has clearly not recovered and may never. But the little poncy cafes outside Kew Gardens station were doing just fine.
* ie when people commuted in the before times.
I thought Kew had gardens. It's confusing if it has two things.
I was based at the national archives for 6 months, leading up until the first CV-19 lockdown. Working on one of their projects: https://bit.ly/3m2W3wl
It did used to be based in the city centre, at Chancery Lane, which is a more fitting location given what's actually in the archives.
Or the gardens ... Or they could rename the tube station; or maybe put it underground, where it belongs. Though, to be fair, I think there is an overground line there as well which goes to Hampstead and possibly as far Islington. That would be the the covid-free-est way to travel. But London is really bewildering when you have been away from cities for eighteen months.
London is probably bigger than Omaha and Lincoln combined.
95: What? It can't have grown that much.
The population was 9,904 at the 2010 census
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London,_Ohio
Had a farewell party last night (and to be fair, for almost every evening last week) for one of my best friends here who got canned in July around the time I got my new job and is now flying back to the UK. This is one of the shittiest things about ex-pat life. I hope he's able to get another job here and come back.
In other news another very good friend (and good friends with the friend mentioned above) is coming back here in March, he's the archeologist I think I've mentioned here before. So that's something to look forward to.
Ok ethicists settle a debate I have with my partner. Kid will be 12 in the fall. I say lie and get them some protection ahead of school reopening (Labor day around here). There is no medical risk doing it a couple months early- kid is already larger than many 12 year olds. Partner agrees there's no medical risk and that it would be good infection-wise (younger sibling can't be vaccinated yet so the less family risk the better.). But partner doesn't agree with 1) messing up medical records- will this make it hard to have a record of vax? What will we tell pediatrician? 2) Teaching kid that it's ok to lie, and kid will have to be in on the lie and not tell peers or teachers. Tell me I'm right commenters.
Also the unlikely but possible case is kid has some complication that requires medical attention and then I can see us getting into trouble when they find out what we did.
will this make it hard to have a record of vax? What will we tell pediatrician?
That and 99 is why we didn't do it.
Yeah, the problem is that the off-the-books shot would have to remain undocumented, I think. Since booster shots are starting to gain acceptance, maybe you could pull off giving one shot early, second shot after the kid's birthday, and wait a few months for a third (officially second) shot? Idk. Are the J&J shots still available?
As far as the amount of trouble you'll get into for wanting to potentially save kids' lives... I'm not actually sure what the consequences would be, although "fuck around and find out" is obviously not how I would play it. Personally, it sounds to me like too much trouble for a fall birthday. For a March birthday, I'd be tempted to fuck around.
98:
1. I bet future pediatricians do not care one iota if the kid got vaxxed a month early. Remember how wildly chaotic half of humanity is and what a garbled mess records tend to be. There will be a workaround, and it matters less and less the more time passes.
2. I think it's always reasonable to tell kids, "there's two competing values going on here that are at odds with each other. We believe in being honest and following rules where we approve of them, and we also believe in keeping you safe ahead of risky situations. In this situation, we're compromising the first for the second." Because kids actually need training for the situation where values conflict, not where values are easy and unconflicting.
3. This is really hard to imagine playing out like that.
On the other hand, I justified a similar lie to myself, albeit in a state with no records whatsoever, so I'm motivated to say things that support myself.
And I wouldn't explicitly tell the pediatrician anything.
1. Here is a vax card.
2. They can look up his birthday and see the conflict if they are dead set on catching people who got their kid vaxxed early.
My guess is there's so much energy being put towards encouraging people to get vaxxed that you'll come across as an ally much more than an adversary.
and kid will have to be in on the lie and not tell peers or teachers
I'm agnostic on the question of the early vax, but instructing your kid to lie seems like a bad path to tread. If you do decide to vax early, couldn't you just tell your kid, "look, we're technically not supposed to be doing this but Parent2 and I really want you not to get sick. If someone asks you whether you got the shot, you should tell the truth, but you don't have to bring it up if you're not asked."?
104 is kind of where I am. Isn't the kid going to leak, eventually? Everyone they lied to will draw an inference.
I would consider telling the pediatrician in advance -- not exactly asking permission, but giving kid deniability in that the doc knew and didn't somehow forbid/prevent it. It might be that with the nearness of the birthday, and the size of the kid you can get the doc to say it's ok to get the vax.
I guess my vaccination status isn't in my medical records and I should maybe do something about that.
My worry would be that you can't document the shot -- and then later your kid needs proof of vaxx once it's open to all kids for next year's school registration or something. And then what do you do? Double up shots on a 12 year old so it can be recorded properly?
I, my wife and son tested negative after our recent sort of exposure on our trip.
I'd probably lean no o the 12= yr. old, but glad it is not a decision I have to make. I will say that the last year I was very glad I ddi not have school age kids. Our local mostly-swank suburban school district just had a rowdy meeting where they voted yes to masks and I think someone responded with a Nazi salute.
The assignment was to tell me I'm right. Only heebie followed the directions.
Oh come on, what's life without a little sneakiness?
FUCK. The Tx supreme court just sides with Abbott against mask mandates.
114: Jesus. Our governor here is being an ass about school mask mandates by refusing to have one for kids, but at least he's not telling cities and towns they can't have one. Boston surely will.
Our district is implementing a de facto vaccine mandate for kids over 12. They can't require it for school but anyone over 12 who wants to participate in any extracurricular must be vaccinated.
Not everyone is padding their college application.
It is a good long term plan to keep the antivaxxers out of college.
I was (naively) convinced that Abbott wanted the court to rule against him so that he could save face and not kill children. And that maybe he'd somehow scuttle things or make sure they argued their side very weakly or something.
120: To cheer you up, I can sell you the Brooklyn Bridge for a very good price.
I'd be surprised if anyone would knowingly vaccinate an underage kid. If you had a situation where (as we did) the vaccine is approved for all adults but only the over 45s can get it at the moment, I'm sure some doctors would bend the rules to jab a 43 year old. But as I understand it the US hasn't approved any vaccines at all for under 12s. So if a doctor vaccinated an 11 year old and he gets sick, that's negligence.
123: Many of the vaccination efforts here are being run at chain pharmacies, which likely wouldn't have records or know the kid. The required paperwork for 12-18s is a parent attestation that the child is old enough.
123: ah, makes sense. We deliver most through GP but pharmacies play a part too and I'm honestly not sure if they check age, now I think about it.
There are also vaccine clinics in the city where they explicitly say no ID or health insurance info required to help reach lower uptake populations.
They looked at my teeth to see how old I was.
Cut one open and count the rings?
Never mind, that would be something close to free dental care and that's never happening in the US.
I started a new check-in thread based on how old Moby is.