Re: Saving Face

1

Also this person saying she guesses she will get vaccinated as a spur-of-the-moment decision. She blames procrastination, but I think she realizes she needs to sneak around her own need to justify her delay up to now.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 5:49 AM
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There was a massive propaganda campaign to create fear and uncertainty. It was effective but now you've got people who need to save face not just in vaccination but many were eager participants in spreading the propaganda. They need reassurance that they aren't as stupid as they objectively are. It's a real problem, but honestly I don't have the patience to give a shit.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 5:59 AM
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Anyway, most of the Herman Cain Awards have people with Facebook posts about how they will never back down and get vaccinated and how vaccine mandates are a literal Holocaust. Then they die from covid, because the Herman Cain Awards are all about their theme.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 6:12 AM
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Almost 95 percent of those over 65 in the United States have received at least one dose. This is a remarkable number, given that polling has shown that this age group is prone to online misinformation, is heavily represented among Fox News viewers and is more likely to vote Republican. Clearly, misinformation is not destiny.

From this it seems that we Americans aren't completely irrational. Old people have judged correctly that they are at a greater risk from Covid and acted accordingly.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 6:16 AM
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5

Plus, they mostly got it back before the propaganda war started.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 6:18 AM
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6

They need reassurance that they aren't as stupid as they objectively are.

I realize this is petty and pointless and in no way a policy recommendation, but I'm personally far more interested in seeing people have to eat shit publicly on this count than giving them a face-saving cover story.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 6:29 AM
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Americans mostly correctly price costs to themselves, and mostly incorrectly price costs to the group. Or at least we're willing to fail at every collective active problem that comes our way, especially those where a solution possibly involves giving somebody something they don't deserve. At least we're consistent.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 6:31 AM
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8

You're not supposed to say that part aloud.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 6:31 AM
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9

8 to 6.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 6:31 AM
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8: That's kinda my shtick.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 6:34 AM
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We could have open, affirming, and fact-based conversations with 60 million people. Or we could fucking mandate it.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 7:24 AM
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12

Have we tried saying covid makes your balls fall off? I think that would be faster.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 7:29 AM
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13

We were told not to say it made your dick soft.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 8:13 AM
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14

"we need to have affirming conversations with them" to "we should make it a compulsory legal requirement, so they have no excuse" is quite the flex.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 8:14 AM
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!4 Well, the 'we' in each can/should be a different actor, and in both cases not me. (I'd be the latter we if I was driving public policy. I'm not.)


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 8:39 AM
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Was 14 to 11? Affirming conversations was never a scalable strategy. It's probably the least-worst option with people you have a relationship to.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 8:47 AM
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Americans mostly correctly price costs to themselves

We do? Anything more than a year out, for instance?


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 9:49 AM
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"we need to have affirming conversations with them" to "we should make it a compulsory legal requirement, so they have no excuse" is quite the flex.

Good cop/bad cop.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 9:54 AM
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17 sounds like someone who didn't buy the extended warranty.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 9:57 AM
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20

We heavily discount the opportunity cost and mental health cost of car commutes when buying homes that necessitate them.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 10:02 AM
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21

I don't. I keep refusing to move out to the burbs.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 10:06 AM
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It's the preacher's "we". I bought near a rail station and am working toward getting rid of my car.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 10:15 AM
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I got rid of my wife's car. But I had to buy another one because some people get upset when you total their car.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 10:17 AM
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14 was to the original link.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 10:37 AM
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22: Match in the gas tank -- it's the only way.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 10:50 AM
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I thought you were supposed to be a rag in the tank and light that.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 11:05 AM
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But driver's education was a long time ago, I guess.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 11:07 AM
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28

6. I'm mainly interested in the eedjits getting vaccinated and I don't care how they justify it. If they want to say they were abducted by pixies who tied them down and forcibly injected them, that's cool, so long as they get their shots.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 11:36 AM
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That's already how they justify drinking if they get caught drunk behind the wheel.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 11:39 AM
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OK, then they can say that the pixies abducted them to a bar and forced them to drink a shitload of whiskey before forcibly injecting them while they were too drunk to resist.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 12:07 PM
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31

Public health, Nac Mac Feegle style.


Posted by: DaveLHI | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 1:28 PM
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32

I wonder what the cost/benefit tradeoff would be if you gave everyone vaccinated one free pass on a DUI.

Not one free pass if they're caught, one free pass to do it period. And not DWI.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 1:32 PM
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Since the woman in the Slate interview seemed to need a personal reward for it.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 1:32 PM
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We're mostly talking about thirty to sixty year old people, probably white ones. They have so small odds of being pulled over it probably wouldn't matter.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 1:54 PM
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Are people here with kids under 12 going to go with the Pfizer or wait for J&J? I feel like the endocarditis risk is too small to worry about but my kids have a strong preference for the one-dose option.


Posted by: Todd | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 2:14 PM
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It's a smaller dose, right? Our 15 year-old had a bigger reaction to the second Pfizer dose than I did. Very temporary, but enough that I would try to schedule any younger child so that they had no school or something for a couple of days.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 2:17 PM
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37

30: I think Kim Deal is sober these days.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 3:03 PM
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38

but my kids have a strong preference for the one-dose option.

Isn't the J and J effectively now a two-dose option, with the CDC now recommending a booster (and preferably an mRNA shot for the booster)?

My son got the J and J (he also had a strong preference for the one-dose option). I now want him to get a booster.


Posted by: Just Plain Jane | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 3:16 PM
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37: We're all just trying to keep things under control enough to avoid an intervention or a medical condition.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 3:25 PM
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35: I'll take whatever gets approved first. I assume there won't be multiple vaccines approved on the same day or even week. My kid isn't 11 years and 10 months, so there's no fudging the dates for us.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 5:53 PM
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My father failed the DUI test into his 60s. He only quit when he lost his driver's license.

Minnesota has a vigorous drinking culture. One of the reasons why it is better than other states.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 6:53 PM
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42

It was harder to fail back then.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 6:56 PM
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43

Jammies' grandpa lost his license after too many DUIs and then started driving his tractor to the bar. Then got DUIs for that, and so they moved to a bigger city so that he could keep driving drunk. Thank god he didn't kill anyone.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 6:56 PM
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44

I should go visit my sister in Minnesota. I see her all the time, but never there.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 6:57 PM
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There was a guy who always drove drunk and eventually the police caught him for what would have been the license-losing offense (probably 4th back then). They set up a DUI check point on the road from the bar to his house, a road that didn't really go anywhere but his house. A judge dropped it as an illegal search. I assumed they would just get him the regular away, but I don't know what happened.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 7:00 PM
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"Illegal stop" instead of "illegal search"? I don't know. The point was, it was clearly an attempt to breathalize this one particular guy and it didn't work because it was too obvious. He should have just got a place in town and walked to the bar, but walking was seen as strange back then.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 7:04 PM
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47

Just watched my work's "town hall" about the mandate. It was pretty impressive. Requests for accommodations (exemptions) will be reviewed by either medical professionals (a nurse who works for occupational health and an advisory team of MDs they contract with) and religious exemptions reviewed by an HR team to ensure validity of "deeply held beliefs and convictions." A few questions they answered warmed my heart. Notes from chiropractors do not count. Notes from pharmacists do not count. If you provide a fake certificate, you will be terminated. If you refuse vaccination and do not file for an accommodation, you will be terminated, but it is considered voluntary separation and you will not receive unemployment. They also helpfully pointed out that comparable jobs will all have the same requirement. There is not an option for testing. Whether or not you personally work on federal contracts, you must be vaccinated. If you change your mind and get vaccinated, you will be eligible for rehire. Best I can figure, they ran the numbers and figured it doesn't really matter if they lose people over the mandate.

I've heard a few folks saying they'll be gone rather than get vaccinated, but I expect it will be a small percentage similar to other places.

I really thought they'd be more conciliatory in some way.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 7:23 PM
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47: Nice.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 7:32 PM
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I should add that they're allowing extra sick time to folks with vaccine side effects, up to 48 h post-dose, as well as 4 h paid leave for each appointment (in addition to on site drives). They are also not doing anything about insurance premiums for unvaxxed family members (apparently some places are increasing premiums by a lot).

Oh, and my favorite detail was that when someone asked whether having a doc provide a note saying they were healthy and low-risk would be enough, one of the honchos, in withering tones, explained that the point of the mandate was to make the whole site safer, because even if they were low-risk, their coworkers might not be.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 7:45 PM
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At McDonald's, they still make you wash your hands before returning to work even if you can pee without touching your penis. No accommodation at all.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 7:48 PM
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I guess I haven't worked at McDonald's since 1989, so I don't know about the current policy.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 7:55 PM
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52

It stricter now. You have to wash your hands even if you only touched somebody else's penis.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 8:27 PM
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I suppose that's not so much stricter as it is more specific.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-21-21 8:39 PM
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49.last lovely


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 10-22-21 12:24 AM
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My desire for folk to have an exit ramp from the freeway to crazytown is somewhat at odds with my belief that we have to raise the social costs of getting on that freeway in the first place.


Posted by: (gensym) | Link to this comment | 10-22-21 8:12 AM
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35, 38, 40: We are also planning for the first available, assuming it'll be Pfizer.


Posted by: Osgood Yousbad | Link to this comment | 10-22-21 8:28 AM
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55 to 52?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-22-21 8:39 AM
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More like 55 is trying to rationalize 6, an attitude I share.


Posted by: (gensym) | Link to this comment | 10-22-21 10:57 AM
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47 and 48: My husband's company is a pharmaceutical company, but they are part of a conglomerate, and one division is known for making filters, and it merged with a company that sells building blocks and reagents.

They had a town hall, and a bunch of the people in Texas who are not scientists were complaining and wanting the right to test out. I guess maybe, because they sell medicine, they are Federal contractors and can't allow a testing exemption? But there were actually people asking if the company would be liable if they were injured due to the vaccine!! I think the company provides extra paid time off, but these people were talking about permanent harm.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-22-21 11:15 AM
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38: I think J and J plus J and J is not bad. I could now see a young, healthy man with a Pfizer shot choosing to get a Jansen for their 2nd shot. A young woman who got J'n J would probably choose an mRNA.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-22-21 11:17 AM
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