I remember when it hit me that I was doing my own shopping and could buy a whole bag of marshmallows even if I didn't have a recipe calling for them.
There's probably an experiment where scientists come in and say "the Paw Patrol is dead and it's your fault because you didn't put away your shoes."
Eat the marshmallow!
Life isn't a test
Can someone finish this poem for me?
I am reminded of the joke about "well, I know the answer's 'Jesus Christ', but it sure sounds like a squirrel to me"
Did you eat all of your marshmallows? There's kids in Japan waiting 15 minutes for them. Don't waste.
32:
Canonically:
Eat the marshmallow!
Life isn't a test
Fuck you clown!
Eat the plums!
Life isn't a test.
Eat the marshmallow!
Life isn't a test.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
The best critique of the marshmallow test that I recall seeing is that it's actually a test of whether the child's previous experience of adults in their lives is that they are reliable/trustworthy, or not. If adults are always promising you things that don't materialize, the researcher's promise of a second marshmallow if you wait is not believable, so why wait to eat the first one?
This article gestures at that but mostly focuses on the socioeconomic variables, which are of course somewhat related but not the same.
Right, and I think that makes sense as a critique of the concept of "grit" generally. The chance that someone is a dogged hard worker in any given context is going to be heavily dependent on whether their experience leads them to believe it's likely to pay off.
8.1, 9: It just occurred to me that it's possible to look at this critique in a different way. To me, the critique was proof that the whole concept of grit was bullshit.
But it's also possible to say -- this just show that grit isn't an innate quality -- it's an ability that has to be taught. So, by being sure to reward your kids for making an effort, you are teaching them grit. And that will make them more successful in life.
I liked my original perspective better.
I think the generalized critique remains valid, because I think doggedness/grit is contextual. A kid who might work their heart out for their parents, because they reasonably believe that will be rewarding, or an athletic coach, for similar reasons based on experience, might not do the same thing in school because they don't believe that academic effort will lead to rewards for them.
8: also, if the promise of future benefit is uncertain or unbelievable, then the *rational* thing to do is take the sure gain. I like to stress that there's not some damaged reasoning process.
The way to teach grit isn't known, whatever Duckworth thinks, because when it happens, it happens because the person can see that working hard/repeated failure *leads to success.*. Again - it's not rational to stick to a project with no hope of success. And the kidz know that adults praise effort only when the outcome is subpar. And, as LB says, it seems to be contextual.
In conclusion - and this is me being cranky and not directed at anyone here - as a society we seem to be willing to do anything to get the poor to behave like the middle class (diet, savings, grit, whatever) except improve their economic standing, which might actually work.
12: I agree with all that except for one small parenting quibble -- I do think it's possible to praise effort in a way that doesn't come across as a booby-prize for bad results. "That came out amazing, all the work you put into it really paid off!" Or even "I can tell you're disappointed in your results, but I saw how hard you've been working, and if you keep working like that, trust me that you're going to get better eventually."
Obviously, the way to raise children is to set out marshmallows that are wired to a mild electric shock so they'll never touch them.
Oh sure. I do the same parenting dialogue that one would expect a PhD to do. But I think the reason the Calabat is likely to be very gritty is that he has a lot of opportunities to see that hard work pays off in lots of dimensions of his life, in part because we have the resources to do that.
Maybe another way to put this is that so much of the "do X to make your kid Y" assumes a baseline where parental input can meaningfully nudge it one way or another.
Right, it seems like a lot of the potential for parenting to be beneficial is in setting up situations to learn non-obvious bits of cultural wisdom that aren't easily demonstrated directly
Maybe we could put together an anthology of anti-grit literature. These lyrics could be the epigraph.
Was she told when she was young
That pain would lead to pleasure?
Did she understand it when they said
That a man must break his back
To earn his day of leisure?
Will she still believe it when he's dead?
as a society we seem to be willing to do anything to get the poor to behave like the middle class (diet, savings, grit, whatever) except improve their economic standing, which might actually work.
This. We'll do anything as long as we don't risk ameliorating someone's suffering as a byproduct to helping them help themselves.
That a man must break his back
To earn his day of leisure?
I always (until just now) though the lyric was "That a man must break his back too on his day of leisure," and thought that was awfully bleak. Now it makes more sense.
16: and the ability to do it repeatedly. Middle class income allows lots of opportunities to fail and try again, in multiple modalities.
When I was a kid I would really have fucked up this experiment, because I did and do hate marshmallows. After I was about 3 I'd have asked if I could have a stuffed olive instead.
That's in the teacher lounge for martini time.