Most of that guy's complaints seem to be excresences of his own personality rather than actual problems with e-bikes that a sane person would also experience when riding one. His main reason to cycle seems to be so that he can tell people he's A Cyclist (the left equivalent of A Gun Owner).
I did a number of rides on the Citibike ebikes this spring, and fell in love -- they made the thirteen and a half miles to work pleasantly easy rather than a little too much to do twice in a day where I'm also doing a full day's work. Then I looked into buying myself one and stalled out -- the combination of things being too heavy for the flight of stairs I can't avoid in my building, and worrying about theft, stopped me.
Although the weird behavior of a powered bike at low speeds was an issue -- trying to ease at walking pace through tightly packed stopped cars was tricky. I think on a different bike you could turn off power assist entirely under those circumstances, though.
I have a bike and gun but I don't use either.
This is my bike, this is my gun. One is for riding, neither for fun.
This is my car. I can use it for both transportation and lethally endangering my fellow citizens.
This is my car. I can use it for both transportation and,
Lethally endangering my fellow citizens, lounging in the sand.
This is my car. I can use it for both transportation
And lethally endangering my fellow citizens while they're on vacation.
This is my car. I can use it for both transportation and lethally
Endangering my fellow citizens who zip about so feebly.
This is my car. I can use it for both transportation and lethally endangering my fellow
Citizens who then reveal their insides to be red and white and yellow.
I am not actually counting syllables here to make sure anything scans. Forewarned is forearmed, but postwarned is post-car'd
Yeah, I'm sorry, that article seemed incredibly vapid, plus smuggling in anxiety over masculinity. Cars didn't fit into a neat category when they were invented either, and were probably extremely strange to ride.
Repeating myself from elsewhere: he had maybe a quarter of a thesis and his editor could have helped him develop it into something, but it's the Atlantic, and they thrive on hate-clicks.
And why are bike seats SO uncomfortable, anyway?!
And a really common experience with people trying out ebikes is falling in love with them, anecdotally. He could have stood to talk to more people about it.
There is something he touches on in public perceptions that's interesting: biking is perceived as inherently athletic, so ebiking by extension is a cheat of some kind. I remember one person looking impressed when I said I biked to work, and then when I clarified it was an ebike their face fell like they felt they had been wrongly kudosing me. (This was just talking about it; most people actually seeing the bike ooh and aah.) Anyway, that's all contingent and will almost certainly fade away.
15:
Yeah, I'm sorry, that article seemed incredibly vapid, plus smuggling in anxiety over masculinity.
Cars didn't fit into a neat category when they were invented either, and were probably extremely strange to ride, for the driver and for anyone else in his vicinity.
Repeating myself from elsewhere: he had maybe a quarter of a thesis and his editor could have helped him develop it into something, but it's the Atlantic, and they thrive on hate-clicks
Because they're dicks.
If you absolutely had to be close friends with the author of this article or the previous one, which would you choose and why? Answers must rhyme to be eligible to win an ebike.
16: there was an amusing bit of twitter yesterday when someone pointed out that someone invented a bike that doesn't have a crossbar you can crush your nuts on, and promptly marketed it to...women...
God I want an e-bike. I'm just waffling between the assisted-pedal sort as against something more like a no-pedal electric scooter, as I would sometimes like to get to work in a skirt or dress with impractical shoes and not be sweaty at the end. But I think the no-pedal numbers might need a motorcycle license in California. I don't know, anyone have thoughts or tips on pedaling while skirted?
About ten years ago, I rode a bike and got the only migraine of my life. Haven't riden one since.
Depends on the kind of skirts you like and how modest you are. I, e.g., did my commute on a pedal assist ebike in skirts and sandals, and didn't get sweatier than I would have walking the same time. But I favor skirts that are around knee length, and on the full side of aline, so maximum freedom of movement. There were some moments where my skirt rode up more than it strictly should have, but I dealt with that by not caring much.
But in something shorter or a pencil skirt at any length, pedaling might be tricky. I mean, obviously you need a step-through rather than a model with a high crossbar, but I think most ebikes are like that.
I don't think the majority of ebikes are step-through, but plenty of such model are available.
For my part, on the days I ebike to work, I wear business casual, I do pedal (although I'm told and believe that contributes no more than 15% of the energy), it takes 25 to 35 minutes with bumpy roads, and I'm never the slightest bit sweaty at the end of it. (Of course outside the Bay, air temperature could change that, but the LKs are here too.)
How hard you're pedaling has to be very dependent on the individual bike and settings. Subjectively, I felt like I was putting in effort equivalent to biking slowly on level ground or a slight downhill, but actually moving fairly quickly and with some significant hills -- maybe half effort but more than 15%.
There are land-use issues with e-bikes and scooters. But there are always land-use issues with new transportation technologies. That aside, they're a lot of fun and typically quite practical. And I'm pretty confident that almost anything that means fewer cars is worth trying.
I probably should have said two things: first, the article is mostly quite dumb, but that's to be expected from The Atlantic these days; and second, I've been commuting to and from work on an electric scooter for going on six months now, and I much prefer it to riding my bike, walking, or, worst of all, driving my stupid car.
Standup Razor-type scooter or sitdown Vespa-type scooter?
Someone in my extended social circle got an ebike and really likes it - he can make a ten-ish mile commute over into St. Paul while getting a moderate amount of exercise.
I think ebikes are great and have a lot of potential in particular for people who have mobility/exercise limitations but still want and can do some exercise - all the fun of biking without needing to choose between a tiny little ride and overwhelming exhaustion.
It would be neat to have one but they are expensive and - the real issue - I don't have anywhere safe to keep it. It would be difficult to bring inside due to weight but mostly due to our weird, terrible narrow porch stairs which are already very difficult to get a regular bike up and down. And in truth, I don't need one. I work from home and the cities have invested in these really great bike racks on the buses, so if I do want to go to remotest St. Paul I take my bike part way on the bus.
29: not a Vespa. It's like an engorged Razor, I suppose.
I spend some time on bike boards and lots of time in real-life cycling communities, and I'm, well, not surprised, I guess, but a bit weirded out by how much hostility there is from longterm cyclists toward e-bikes. As noted above, a lot of this is about land-use issues. But there also seems to be a healthy dose of snobbery, because hardcore cyclists are often obnoxious fuckfaces.
25, 26: Aside from variance across models, the 15% number probably takes into account the weight of the damn things. What LB describes does sound like getting basically double the speed you'd expect from effort expended, but the baseline is a normal, ~20lb bike. An e-bike will weigh double that, such that the effort she's putting in would barely get the thing up the mildest slope.
Anyway, the author is definitely some form of douche, and I've basically never heard of anybody who rode an e-bike without loving it--the one time I tried one* it resulted in completely unavoidable glee--but that doesn't mean that if everyone got one that they'd use it all the time. As with public transpo, or eating healthy for that matter, there's at least an ounce of willpower required relative to walking out to the car (esp if you have a driveway and reasonable expectation of parking spot at the other end). And while the create-your-own-breeze factor is very real, hot, sunny, humid conditions aren't going to be great. Although I'd note that cars are literal ovens until you extract the hot air and get the AC going, but that's the sort of thing we're socialized to discount.
*one of AB's US cousins is married to a guy who makes homemade e-bikes out of thrift shop frames and Tesla cells from eBay. No pedal assist, just a throttle that provides joy.
Speaking for myself, I would 100% have loved to have one when the kids were little--while I did sometimes bike commute with one in a bike seat, it was never going to be common. With an e-cargo bike, it would have been semi-regular. I still would like to use one for shopping, and a handful of site visits that I don't quite feel like pedaling to, but the thing would sit too much to justify the expense. Might change as I age.
I think I (a long-time although not really hardcore cyclist) used to feel some hostility/disdain toward ebikes since the whole logic of city biking tends to be "get exercise, be healthier unlike car commuters and also don't pollute by needing things like batteries and electronics". But I think I've been exposed to enough disability community stuff that it made me rethink my assumptions about mobility and access to the city. More people using bikes/bike-adjacent things is in fact good, health is relative and personal, etc.
Also, of course, as a fattish person whose "best" bike is a mid-price one (Coda Sport, very nice but real heads think it's cheap even though it cost me $700 American dollars) and who regularly rides a box store spare and gets snobby comments, I have little incentive to agree with hardcore cyclist types anyway.
As a biker, I'm indifferent to e-bikes in general, with one big exception. I'm not interested in getting one myself, because I value the exercise and because I'd still get sweaty even on an e-bike several months of the year. But they may be perfectly practical for other people, and they're no worse to share the road with than other bikes and much better than most other vehicles.
That big exception is Cassandane's e-bike, which has only been taking up space since she bought it. She has ridden it about 20 minutes total since it arrived eight months ago. There are better things we could have done with the storage space...
Agreed with 14. Reminds me of the perfect New Yorker cartoon caption.
Perhaps my e-bike ambivalence comes in part from the bike's strange social status... But I don't want anybody seeing me on my e-bike. It's just kind of embarrassing... But e-bikes bear no clear character. They fall between the cracks. Even when I willingly tell people, "Oh, I got an e-bike," I'm not sure if I'm bragging or revealing shame... A motorcycle signals power (and maybe a caricature of outmoded masculinity) from its exhaust.
Due to the accident in November, I got a new bike in March. I tried out at least three. Of those, one was a step-through bike, a "girl's bike", if you will. (For non-bikers, something like this, with a frame shaped so you can easily step forward into it, without disturbing skirts or things like that.) It was my favorite overall of the three and the step-through shape would even benefit me, because most of my biking these days is with the kid in a passenger seat on the back. Even so, I hesitated to get it because of the connotations of it. So what did I do? I decided that would be a fucking stupid reason to buy a less comfortable bike or spend more on features I didn't need, and bought the step-through bike, because I'm not 12. The author of this article might have done better to consider this perspective.
24: Thanks, that all makes sense. It is mostly A-lines for me, since as much as I love pencil skirts in theory there's an issue of shoulder-to-hip ratio that they tend to throw into relief. I guess it's really the issues with getting on and off the apparatus, rather than pedaling per se, that's kept me from getting too adventurous with my current commute bike.
33, 36: I'm practically but not socially a hardcore cyclist*, and I used to have skepticism towards e-bikes, mostly because the pleasure i get from challenging rides is all about "I biked here!" But mostly I want as many people on bikes as possible, and I'm very happy to see them on e-bikes. AB is far too reluctant to bike, basically bc she doesn't want to ruin her hair under a helmet and get all sweaty (and bc Pittsburgh is objectively hard to bike around). I've strongly encouraged her to get an e-bike (or convert her current bike) and just ditch the helmet**. No joy so far.
*that is, I do rides that mostly hardcore cyclists do, but I'm not really friends with those people and can only tolerate a tiny fraction. Even the ones I like are still too much into bikes for me. I don't care that much about the mechanics of cycling, and I'm never going to ride the crazy miles they do.
**My position has come to reserving helmets for rides where my mistake or road conditions could lead to a high speed crash--IOW, hilly ones where I'll top 20 mph. On an easy, flat ride to the store or whatever, my own error is unlikely to lead to significant cranial impact, and if a car obliterates me, the helmet makes a tiny difference. I'm not insensitive to head injury, I'm just weighing factors.
Oh, and there's 37 with the step-through. That does seem like most of the problem solved.
Also, while I admit this is shallow, and I wouldn't speak to how well I carry it off myself, biking in a skirt on a step-through has the potential for looking super cute. With a good outfit and a nice looking bike, the whole effect is very urbane European.
Oh, another thing about "hardcore cyclists": IME there are at least 2 strains. One is the stereotypical Lycra-clad white guy, while the other is more of a punk-ish person (less overwhelmingly male) who doesn't even own a car and may or may not own any expensive bikes, but doesn't view them as mere transportation.
I surely present as more the former, but am more simpatico with the latter. But, as I say, I don't really want to hang out with either*. Regardless, the latter are surely more pro-e-bike, but I think that just a few years ago both groups would be pretty skeptical. Come to think of it, I think e-cargo bikes are the gateway: being into cargo bikes in general was a sort of social marker 10 years ago, and when they started electrifying, that seemed cool in a way that "dorky hybrid bike with a battery on the downtube" couldn't.
*although arguably my best friend at this point is a woman of this type whom I'm riding with tomorrow and--this is where I brag about someone else's accomplishments--recently complete the Trans Am race from Oregon to Yorktown, VA. Completely self-supported, ~3 weeks cross country. She's awesome.
41 is an objective fact.
The only bikes I really get excited about are pretty city bikes.
37.last: AB's bike--a low range Trek from 20 years ago--has a step-through frame and is clearly gendered feminine. I like to use it for short runs to the store when I'm not in a hurry. The geometry makes it impossible for me to ride aggressively, so I just pedal easy and enjoy the breeze and the self-satisfaction that comes from ignoring gender norms.
Come to think of it, I think e-cargo bikes are the gateway: being into cargo bikes in general was a sort of social marker 10 years ago, and when they started electrifying, that seemed cool in a way that "dorky hybrid bike with a battery on the downtube" couldn't.
Cargo bikes seem incredibly common in our neighborhood, or at least among our circle of friends/acquaintances with kids around Atossa's age. Cassandane's bike is a cargo e-bike. They're very practical around where we live. I mentioned biking the kid to school; it's actually faster than driving just due to rush hour traffic. In the Before Time I'd go grocery shopping by bike on the way home from work but on a normal day I could only carry groceries for a day or two in addition to all the commuting-related stuff I was already carrying, but if I had had a cargo bike it would have made a huge difference.
We didn't need a car where we lived until the pandemic. Once we had one, we found we'd use it for lots of new or different things we didn't do before. But I can imagine going back to not using it, or at least using it only weekly or less, as soon as the kid is capable of biking. Too bad she hates the idea...
34.2 Anyway, the author is definitely some form of douche, and I've basically never heard of anybody who rode an e-bike without loving it--the one time I tried one* it resulted in completely unavoidable glee.
My sister's reaction the first time she pedalled my mother's e-bike up a steep incline: "this must be what cocaine feels like!"
I have heard good things about cocaine.
My wife got one as is a total convert; bicycling now makes up a significant fraction of the videos she watches idly, she's becoming more passionate about land use and city design, and it brings her significant joy. She aims to bike commute 3x per week, and hits it about half the time -- which, given Fresno summers is pretty impressive. (She's not a skirt person, so no advice on melding skirts with bicycling; her bike is a step through.)
She's noticed that she's prone to run more errands and make short runs from work for shopping on biking days; the hassle of circling for parking, etc. isn't a factor - plus any excuse to use it seems to work for her. Her commute was about 20 minutes by car, and it's 30-40 depending on the level of pedal assist, which is means that it's still in the "about a half-hour" bucket for her.
For us, it's been a total plus. She really wanted to up my level of bicycling, so that we could go on across the city journeys instead of being limited to a 5 mile or so radius for a pleasurable bike excursion for me. We got a conversion for my bike-a replaced front wheel, pedal sensor, and battery that is suspended from the handlebars. It does make lots of journeys together easy - we basically never drive to the shopping centers within 3-4 miles since there's essentially no difference in transit time given stop signs, etc. Takeout is similarly easy, encouraging me to pop out for a quick ride to collect food instead of driving or using a delivery service.
The less rainbow side is that she does spend a lot of time watching bicycling videos, which means that her relatively inexpensive (and correspondingly heavy) $1500 e-bike has been upgraded with several features, but she's already talking about her next bike, and it'll be a tier more expensive. She's nearing 1000 miles on her current e-bike; it is getting lots of use - so that's just a minor carping, not a serious complaint. It has completely crushed her previous crush, a Vespa, that probably didn't get half as many miles before an injury derailed its use.
47. Tried it once, and I'm here to tell your that Cole Porter was right on the money: "I'm sure that if I took even one sniff, It would bore me terrifically too". Most overrated drug ever.
Then I guess I'll stay off ebikes too.
46 was me: I think my sister's intended meaning was "well that was some entirely unexpected and quite enjoyable pep!" and not "this makes me into a fast-talking bore!" But many cyclists are indeed fast-talking bores, so who knows.
My parents-- both 70 this year-- got e-bikes last year and they've been life-changing for them. They're both retired, so they don't commute on them or anything, and I don't think they use them to get groceries that often. But cycling has become their main leisure activity. They've put well over 1,000 miles on their bikes since they got them.
They live in a hilly neighbourhood in a hilly city, and so e-bikes have meant the difference between 'never biking anywhere ever' and 'taking overnight bike holidays.'
I still do a lot of regular bike-riding and when I made a bike replacement a couple months ago, I decided that I'd go at least one more bicycle before an e-bike. That said, I've ridden e-bikes with bike share and they are totally fucking fun and the extra acceleration feels disproportionately great and I completely get why people like them. I assume that will be my last bike, although my muscle memory for riding should really last 'til I'm old.
I saw some tweet that said "bikes replace car trips and e-bikes replace cars." I can see how that'd be true.
For us, since we are pretty bike-committed, the biggest decision factor about a trip is ease of getting the bike to the road. Right now it is super hard: through doors and and corners and shit. We've had three sequential bikes stolen (none terribly emotional; we chose to buy beaters so they could get stolen) so we have to keep them inside. It is all a pain. But when construction on the ADU is done they will also build a bike shed. Having a secure and easy place to put bikes is really important infrastructure for us.
Crossbar or no crossbar, I was just biking through downtown Berkeley on an errand and sure am glad I wasn't on foot and only had to spend a moment within radius of the guy catcalling me from his shopping cart.
Cassandane and I have each had two bikes stolen in the first 5 years or so in our house. Solid metal u-locks, and parking them somewhere non-public, have made a big difference since then.
Ebikes are really, really popular out West, where they usually show up as e-mountain bikes. The reaction to them has been mixed. It makes it a lot easier to climb 3000 feet of mountain, but it's little harder on the trails, and annoys those who get up the mountain under their own power. It's also a little unclear -- one normally yields to uphill riders because it's hard for them to get restarted, but should one have to stop for a rider who is on the world's weakest dirt bike?
Absolutely great for access to the trails, though -- lots of people who would be intimidated to get out there (most of our beginner trails involve a lot of elevation gain) do so, and so I'm in favor. Great to see people getting their parents into biking.
OH! People who claim it's exactly the same exercise as a regular bike -- yes, there is one study that shows that people on ebikes on a rolling trail have similar heart rates to those who are on acoustic bikes. My counterpoint: a) most exercise science studies are bullshit and that goes double for health studies done near MLM schemes b) if it's EXACTLY THE SAME as a regular bike, then why on earth would you spend $7000 on an ebike, Fred? Just admit you use the assist! You're not really pedaling 65 pounds of bike up hill.
The kids' school has moved, so what used to be a walking commute is now a driving commute, which means I can't bike to work. The kids' helpful solution is getting a Tern bike, because they want to ride in the cargo bay SO BAD. I would, if it wasn't the best way to ensure a snowy winter.
Do people really say "acoustic bikes"? I hope they do!
It's a term I know only from bike forums/FB, but it makes me smile, so I use it.
It's from the Alan Smithee version of Dune.
That's too bad. She's still read. My son had Nickled and Dimmed for summer reading.
57: hey, remember the time we spoke at cross-purposes about the relative "efficiency" of running and biking? Here's the sequel!
I don't buy that study either, but I do think there's a sense in which it's true. 1. From what I see, most people pedal on their e-bikes, even throttle ones. 2. The whole point of gearing is to make the muscle input relatively consistent and not too hard on your joints. 3. On flat ground, casual cyclists pedal easy, enough to go 10-12 mph*. On an e-bike, the same effort gets a heavier bike up to, what, 18 mph? So the magic math isn't that people are working just as hard to push a heavier bike, it's that they're working just as hard to go way faster (on a heavier bike). 4. The huge difference with e-bikes is overcoming inertia & gravity. Casual cyclists accelerate very slowly and either avoid hills or go up them at a glacial pace. Either way, they're not making their hearts race the way someone going hard does. What the e-bikes do is make those moments all but indistinguishable from riding on the flats. Relative to an athletic cyclist, that's a big decline in effort, but relative to a normie, I think it's a decline in perceived effort but less decline from measurable effort. IOW, someone going up a mild but real hill (eg Liberty Ave near Church Brewworks) at 6 mph in low gear thinks they're working pretty hard, but it's not really that big an increase from 12 mph in middle gear on the flats (per 2). The motor turns that into identical effort to push a much heavier bike twice as fast, but (per 1) effort is still happening. And of course going up a hill twice as fast makes that effort last much less time. Maybe that hill does take 25% more effort for 10 minutes; on the e-bike, it's 0% more effort, and it's only 5 minutes anyway. A dramatic decline in perceived effort, a modest decline in actual effort.
I guess my bottom line is that casual cyclists aren't getting huge exercise on acoustic bikes**, so the shift to e-bikes means they're expending similar effort, just going faster, and up hills, and more briskly away from stops.
On that last note, a month ago I was riding city streets and caught up with another rider. I was about to overtake when he started to pull away, and I started to lament my conditioning until I realized he was on a low-key e-bike.
*this is an observation, not a rigorously tested fact
**no shame, just saying it's nothing like even pretty casual jogging
Based on my experience, the work put in on an ebike has to be significantly less than on a regular bike, while of course more than 15%. You're going faster on a heavier bike, but I know I would end up at least a little sweaty after 5 miles on flat roads.
64:. Haha, I do, am since then I took up cycling. Anyhow. Totally agreed about perceived effort, and most of my griping about self-conscious middle aged mountain bikers insisting their ebike is too exactly the same. And sorry, no one pedaling at 30 rpm glides up a 6% rocky grade without an assist!
Where I think ebikes shine is how they make it easier to do *longer* rides. It's less intimidating to do 19 off-road chunky miles if the bike is there to keep you from getting over your head.
Can't believe I tuned in late for a bike thread, much less an ebike thread.
I read that article yesterday and my two thoughts were 1) this guy doesn't know how to ride a bike and 2) he has the self confidence of a nerdy seventh grader on the first day of school. Cornering is easy if you go in with the right amount of speed- I've never experienced what he says about overshooting a turn. If he's having that problem he can also turn down the assist level.
I've had a DIY conversion cargo bike, and electric long tail, and now an electric fat tire step through. Commute every day about 6.5 miles each way. I've probably put 4000 miles on the current one, and my wife has a matching one. That's nice because when mine has a problem I can use hers since she doesn't ride as often. Also provides a guide for how to reassemble when I have to fix something.
Rad sells a folding step through fat tire bike for $1600 (I have a referral code for a discount for you and a credit for me if anyone is buying from them.)
There's this whole legal ambiguity about top speed and having a throttle which is kind of dumb. Having a twist throttle makes all the problems mentioned above easy to deal with- I actually don't use it to go fast, but when I'm trying to balance and maneuver around cars blocking the lane. A sight twist keeps you moving and upright with control at low speed.
If I pedal with full effort and assist I can go uphill at 19mph. The assist tops at 20 and you can't really push it beyond that on a flat because of the weight of the bike and the gear ratio. But mine is a single speed and there are some with usual gear sets.
Extra long frame, holds two child seats behind the rider. I had this one, earlier model:
https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radwagon-electric-cargo-bike
Thanks. Although I was mostly just trying to set up a penis joke.
66: yeah, the "it's exactly the same!" dudes are annoying. Like, your bike cost more than a used car-- if it's exactly he same why didn't you buy a bike that costs half as much?
I ran into a guy at the mountain bike trailhead the other day getting a full suspension carbon e-MTB off the rack on his Tesla Model X. He's committed to the bit.
Anyway, we got to chatting about his bike. He was older, didn't look to be in the best shape, but obviously had lots of biking experience. He definitely didn't insist it was exactly the same. Instead, he pointed out the bike meant he can still hit every trail in the park-- including some double black diamonds I definitely can't handle-- and I'm sure that means he bikes way more than he would otherwise.
Have you looked at used car prices?
My kid just turned 16 and so far I've managed to get away with buying him an e-bike instead of a car. He's now riding it 20 minutes to school each way - that's 10 minutes faster than the school bus.
My kid mostly won't touch a bike. I made him learn, but he hasn't used one since.
Yeah, that was the case with my kid until the e-bike. He was always terrible on an acoustic. Eventually I got him interested in riding mine, and then got him his own.
72: have you looked at top-end e-MTB prices? You can spend $10,000 - $15,000 on one if you're so inclined. You can get a 10-year old Civic for that much money.
You can also spend $1000. $15,000 gets you more bike than you could ever possibly need. But plenty of guys love buying more bike than they could ever need, just like they love buying F-150 Raptors to commute to the office and take their kids to football practice.
Right but it's really hard to steal a car.
I assume anyone who owns a Giant Trance X Advanced E+ LTD only ever rides it to or on MTB trails and otherwise parks it inside their security-system protected garage. Because otherwise... yeah.
I mean, it's got to ride on the back of their SUV on the way between the trail and the garage. There's like stoplights.
i can definitely go faster downhill & on the flat on my vintage-but-new italian steel lovely than on my ebike. bc weight of ebike, not ridiculous assist, gearing, etc. uphill here in sf is another story lol! love them both, vadtly prefer the joy of riding the italian but fully recognize that's a minority opinion for all kinds of perfectly understandable reasons & dude in the article is a clueless dick published by shameless cynical dicks. odd how the health coverage has generally managed to maintain a decent standard.
(at the moment having massive asthma misery that seems to have been brought on by swimming on an ebb carrying algae bloom nastiness even though was at aquatic park in sf quite a bit west of the east bay horrors, so not currently riding any bikes making me very very sad.)
I honestly can't tell if I ever really had asthma. I had medicine and such, but I don't ever recall feeling like I had trouble breathing. There was some wheezing.
I was certainly never in misery from it. Hope you feel better soon.
ty mobes & cc! hopefully planting my ass & various deep breathing/medication strategies over the long weekend will get the better of it. i suspect i'll miss our eccentric annual interclub tri next weekend which is a massive drag as it's the south end's 150th yr anniversary & therefore imperative that we whoop the dolphins & yet have hugely important hearing on the 20th that i cannot risk being unwell for.
the algae bloom in the bay is massively heartbreaking & scary. 💔💔💔
Sally was sending me grim pictures of dead fish floating in Lake Merritt from the algae.
Ebikes expand the accessibility of bikes generally, and will hopefully also lead to more dedicated bike infrastructure, since there will be more people wanting it. A stronger base for cycling as a mode is good for every style of biking, imo.
A couple of downsides might be: (1) cities seem to be filling up with failed and basically unregulated ebike rental schemes (wonder if this is because there are some huge factories in China looking for places to send their batteries); (2) there is a small percentage of terrible people with speed unrestricted ebikes and / or scooters.
Small or large depending on the area. My neighborhood, and Upper Manhattan generally, has had a teenagers/young-adults on dirtbikes problem for a while, and those kids have gradually shifted over to the obnoxious kind of ebikes, tearing around at motor-vehicle speeds. I kind of think of them as a completely separate phenomenon from pedal-assist ebikes.
Send them pictures of dead fish until they slow down.
We got a cargo bike with motor a few years ago when the kids were small and it completely changed our habits and my view of ebikes. We bought it specifically for my spouse's morning commute - a 15 min drive that routinely took 45 due to traffic became a 20-25 minute bike. The kids loved it, and I was surprised by how much it changed my view of biking: we started biking all the time, using it on weekends and evenings. While with my standard bike I would often hesitate to take it on a longer trip (what if it's late? What if I'm tired?) with an ebike I could just tell myself I'd turn up the pedal assist. I did so much more biking than I otherwise would have.
"Luca Brasi rides ebikes with the fishes."
Hope you feel better soon, dq. I had to stop reading about the grisly details of Lake Merritt; I'm sure there's more I don't know.
Just had a driver impatiently nose his SUV through pedestrians, myself included, legally crossing in an intersection. When I gave him the old I'm walking here gesture he stopped in the intersection to denounce my ignorance of traffic law. His mood didn't improve when I cleverly gave him the finger but he agreed when I invited him over to my side of the street. So he parks and jaywalks on over doing his best tough guy strut only to jump back like he was stung when he realizes that I'd started walking towards him, stumbles backwards into a make himself look big karate stance, complete with an air punch or two. I bust out laughing because, among so many other things, I am still twenty feet away.
After a bit of mockery and him muttering about how I wouldn't have dared if trump were president he decides to turn tail and run, telling me I'm lucky that I caught him in a good mood.
Was he Japanese? Because they have a reason to fear you.
Would you believe this was a white dude?
Hey look at me maintaining pseudonyms.
Good job. You didn't even put a period after the "S".
Trump and the Trumpists are just so pathetic. Doesn't mean they aren't dangerous.
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Hey if I wanted to try to get a density bonus multiplier on clustered rural housing passed in our city, that would allow developers to build more housing units on a property as long as they met an incentive that a certain number of units met certain ADA compliance standards for access for people with disabilities, does anybody know exactly which ADA compliance standards I ought to be asking for?
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I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I thought new construction was supposed to be accessible by default. It isn't?
Republican legislatures have probably amending building codes to require at least one step even on single level buildings.
Since this is the transportation thread, I want to know who has taken to putting "student driver" stickers on the back of their cars. Not the car for a driving lesson, but their regular car has a sticker saying something like "Student Driver, Use Patience." In theory it seems nice, but my expectation is that you'd get the same result with a sign that says "Please don't steal packages from my porch as I'm not home now."
That doesn't make sense, but I think people can figure out what I mean.
Googling says the ADA mostly doesn't cover housing, it's the Fair Housing Act: https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/disabilities/accessibilityR
I have thought that I would like a sticker intended to convey: "Please do not interpret my driving as discourteous when it is actually merely nervously incompetent." But I only drive rental cars so it would have to be a magnet.
From reading my prior link, you probably want the Uniform Federal Accessibility Standards, here: https://www.access-board.gov/aba/ufas.html
But that is from literally two minutes of googling -- if anyone who knows anything tells you different, listen to them.
The woman parked in front of me at the store today had a "Student Driver" sticker and two "Baby on Board" stickers. She reversed into her parking spot in a Lexus SUV.
I could not have backed into that space without scratching my car.
I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I thought new construction was supposed to be accessible by default.
Well, there are different levels of accessibility. You can meet the code for new construction for single family homes and still have things like "front steps" that can make things difficult. It would be good to have a certain percentage of units that feature not having stairs, to ensure the availability of places that older people can downsize into.
At lot of people tell me that if you don't have to step up into a house, you'll have more dust. Though presumably there are ramp-up-into-the-house things. It doesn't need to be up very much.
They also tell me you'll have less dust if you don't wear shoes in the house. People tell me this because we don't vacuum or dust often.
I have a bunch of friends with ebikes and they seem like a decent option, but I don't know if they really address what I didn't like about biking to work, which was the discomfort with cars nearby. I suppose if I accelerate faster I'll be passed somewhat less, but I don't know if that's actually good.
(Of course, my usual commute is walking + subway, so buying an ebike to commute is probably a net environmental negative).
119: For me to go to Boston now for a job in the city is a commuter rail trip. When I've made that a Tim just drops me off on his way to work. It's a 5 minute walk, and then he picks me up in the evening at one of the subway stations, because I don't have to worry as much about the schedule, and it's cheaper. Right now the commuter rail lot is pretty empty, but prepandemic it was full, and it's not free to park there. I'd love some kind of scooter/bike that would get me to the train and could be stored quickly. Shareable e-bikes would be pretty sweet actually.
One of the candidates for Lieutenant Governor lives in my town. She's not my State Rep because of how the district is drawn, but she noted that she doesn't use the train because up the combination of schedules and price make it tough for her as a single mother once you factor in that you need to have and maintain a car in this town, and she needed to be able to get back from Boston to deal with something related to her kids.
I think e-bikes are pretty great in a lot of ways. My wife is currently cycling to college but an e-bike would definitely help her to arrive a little less sweaty, and shorten the journey by a few minutes. Personally, I have no interest in one, as I choose to cycle almost entirely for exercise, and most of the time I'm going to want less weight on the bike, rather than more. That said, if I had more money and space, an e-cargo bike would be really useful, and reduce my already low car usage even further.
The main issue I have with them is that, in London, they are often ridden by twats. There are some many testosterone poisoned 20 something guys riding them (food delivery, mostly) who just ride like total arseholes. Often on illegal e-bikes that can do a lot more than the legal limits for e-bikes. Those guys will ride through crowds of pedestrians, go through red lights when it's unsafe, ride up cycle lanes in the wrong direction on their phone, emerge from pavements at night with no lights, etc. There's also a group of not-twats who are just novice cyclists without much road experience where the e-bike lets them write cheques in terms of speed that their road-sense and bike handling skills are not ready for. I expect that will decrease over time.
Maybe they should get "Student Biker" t-shirts?
It is weird how in America, swearing about female genitals isn't really done often and when it is, the connotations are much more severe.
I recently came across the term "flap mash," to describe what bike saddles that are uncomfortable for women do, and although there are no swears in there, it's completely profane.
Yeah, that's probably not the term the use in the bike shop.
Acceleration from a stop is a plus for ebikes. One doesn't exactly keep up with traffic but keeps up with what car drivers expect a vehicle that is going to look like. I think I have pretty good road sense/handling skills, but I guess the true tests of that are hard. I did manage to avoid running over a snake by hopping onto the gravel shoulder and then back on without crashing, but I feel like that one is kind of Utah specific. Most ebikers don't need to dodge snakes.
"What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge snakes?"
"I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready, you won't have to."
I was struck by this bit quoted from the article:
all the nuisances of biking still crop up: hot or cold or wet weather, needing to transport something heavy or awkward, taking on another errand during the day that requires a drive, and so forthThe writer casually reveals that they don't know that it takes time to learn to do things well: the implication is that because getting on the bike doesn't immediately solve all your transport problems, then it is not suitable for purpose. There seems to be no awareness that the rider has some responsibility to figure out the best way to use the bike to meet their needs, and that this might take time. I've been riding a bike for many years, and these "nusiances" are trivial now--if it's hot I put on sunglasses, if it's cold I put on gloves, if it's wet I wear a rain jacket, if I have to transport something heavy or awkward I use a trailer, if I need to do an errand then I plan ahead. These nuisances are much simpler to deal with than the nuisances of driving a car (cost, traffic jams, parking, maintenance, etc.).
Eh, it is a lifestyle switch, and it's one that driving a car doesn't require, because society is set up for it. If I wanted to full-time bike commute, I'd need a different warddrobe, extra accessories, and a lot more time in the day. I'd have to be comfortable with riding an ebike in the dark or on ice to take the kids to school. My car came with headlights; they'd be extra on a bike. The author's not wrong that ebikes aren't "car replacements" as they're often billed.
For me, commuting by bike is quicker than commuting by public transport and costs me nothing, and commuting by car isn't an option (it's a good thing that London discourages this in multiple ways, including legislation). But, the wardrobe and other issues are real. My building doesn't have showers, for example.
Luckily, I don't have to commute in often, and when I do, I am usually not seeing clients. So two out of the last three times I've gone in, I've cycled.* But if I was going to do it every day, there would have to be some serious accommodations in terms of on-bike storage, clothing, etc.
* it's about 13-14 miles each way, so it's not trivial, and if I'm riding at a speed that makes it practical, I'll arrive sweaty. An e-bike would help, of course, but it wouldn't magically solve the other problems.
My car came with headlights; they'd be extra on a bike
Most ebikes come standard with a headlight and taillight that runs off the battery. Some even have a brake light.
Do we think doing a given commute on e-bike is safer, less safe, or the same safety as doing it on an acoustic?
re: 133
I've never tried it on an e-bike, but I assume, given equally experienced riders,* it's probably somewhat safer on an e-bike for the reasons given by Cala and others above, viz the ability to accelerate quickly from a standing start, and to use a quick burst of speed to get out of trouble. Plus lights. I can't think of many situations where the extra weight of the e-bike is likely to be a safety problem unless the bike has crappy brakes and that's not a problem with e-bikes in general, it's just a general bike quality issue and just as likely to be an issue on a manual bike.
* as I said above, I think at the moment, as a general rule, if you were to look at regular bike commuters vs new e-bike riders, that's not actually the case. There's a lot of quite inexperienced e-bike riders, but I assume that's just a matter of time, and before long we'll have a lot of experienced e-bike riders that will include people who couldn't or wouldn't ride "acoustic" bikes , either because they are too old, or have health issues or disabilities, or where the exertion level was a barrier before.
E-bikes are mopeds, aren't they? Change my mind.
I have an opening on Thursday.
I've used ebikes especially when the rental apps were trying to compete on price and it was a steal. The pedal assist type is a ton of fun, intuitive and felt great. (I hated the way the e scooters felt by comparison). I think the places where they work best for commuting also have the most alternatives though. I'd consider buying one if price came down or if I needed to commute somewhere not on the Metro. As a toy it's more than I can justify, but they're very fun toys
The rental escooters here always make me feel like I'm watching someone about to die. But I don't think anyone has locally.
They don't really go fast enough for someone to die nonlocally.
Spike, I'll have some additional info for you later Tuesday about building accessibility. I have a little insight on the topic from my work on disability policy for Defense and interagency stuff. (I should go to bed now.) LB has found that HUD has adopted UFAS (and hasn't budged since despite lots of side eye). But that's only for places it builds or funds/assists under section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, not under ADA.
135 is low-key how I feel, like I love riding e-bikes but I also loved the feeling of riding a motorcycle the one time I did it [I was holding onto someone's back] [I will never do it again, too dangerous].
So is there some better standard under ADA?
The Fair Housing Act requires all "covered multifamily dwellings" designed and constructed for first occupancy after March 13, 1991, to be readily accessible to and usable by persons with disabilities. In buildings with four or more dwelling units and at least one elevator, all dwelling units and all public and common use areas are subject to the Act's design and construction requirements. In buildings with four or more dwelling units and no elevator, all ground floor units and public and common use areas are subject to the Act's design and construction requirements.