My cousin spends his winters in Arizona playing Pickleball. I assume he has his reasons.
We played twice last summer. It's... meh. I guess if you used to be athletic but can't run anymore it's appealing which probably describes a lot of boomers. I've been putting considerable effort into getting better at tennis an have improved my rating at least 0.5 in the past year, maybe approaching 1.0. There are so many aspects to work on in tennis that tie together (serve and volley, chip and charge, offensive lobs, doubles strategy.) Pickleball it didn't feel like there was as much variety in what you could do. Also WTF with the score announcing system.
I bet real tennis players feel similar about your lawn tennis.
Is Pickleball something that the big tech companies like Google and Facebook had onsite pre-lay off?
Brooklyn-based group Club Leftist Tennis
Good grief. Pathetic.
Is it better than Badminton? I remember people putting up Badminton in their backyard, but it was so, meh, and reminded me of the bad parts of volleyball.
I think it's better than badminton because the ball can bounce.
Yes to 2. It's tennis without having to move. I haven't played, but from what I have read they're really pushing the social aspects - the game flattens out differences in athleticism and skill so it's fun to play even with people of different skill levels.
Also 2: so what is your actual rating/level now?
My first encounter with pickleball was in high school gym class. We played it on the tennis courts. I swear until I moved to Utah, where some local doofus has been pushing it as a sport for years, I thought my gym teacher had made it up as a no-skill alternative to tennis.
4: There's a pickleball court and equipment in the Kendall Square roof garden, which is open to the public and not exactly Google, but not exactly not Google either.
It seems nice as an urban amenity because the court is so much smaller.
I was 3.5, easily 4.0 now, approaching 4.5 in some aspects of my game.
11: OK, bring a racket to the next unfoggedcon.
3: took a minute. Very focussed joke.
People enjoying things: capitalism run amok!
Seriously, the one thing neighborhood activists seem to hate pickleball for that has any facial validity is that it's a lot louder than tennis. I have no idea if that's true, but I know someone younger than me who agrees it's at a problematic level.
As Tubo points out, in between dinking and pelting me with the ball, three pickleball courts can fit on one tennis court. At amateur level, pickleball is mostly played as doubles, which means 16 players can be pickleballing on a tennis court-sized area at any one time.
Seems like the pickleballers (or maybe the Guardian) need some help with their math.
Further to 12, 3 is pretty awesome. When I went to Hampton Court, I remember seeing the courts. I can't remember whether anyone still plays there now.
I've played pickleball once, and it was...eh, okay. I did appreciate its ease-of-entry: I'm spectacularly physically untalented and was able to participate in games immediately.
I haven't played again. It was a lot less fun than tennis. Also, I play tennis partly for the exercise, and with pickleball I felt like I barely moved at all. Maybe once tennis has thoroughly fucked up my knees (iow, in another few years) I'll try again.
It is a lot louder than tennis! Not just louder, noisier. Tennis balls make a low-pitched, thock-thock sound that is (to me at least) very pleasant, whereas the plastic pickleball is higher-pitched and very clattery. It doesn't help that there are four times as many games happening on the court at one time.
There was a really funny article, maybe in Slate, about how they're trying to translate Pickleball's popularity into televising top-level Pickleball. But it's just boring to watch and full of annoying sounds. Just nothing like watching elite ping-pong, badminton, or tennis, all of which are fantastic spectator sports.
The average tennis match is played by one and a half people, and four pickle ball games will fit on three pickle ball courts.
There are 17 pickles if you're playing it right.
I'm kinda scared to play tennis after my sister in law started from scratch and popped her calf muscle off or something excruciating and vaguely confusing, which is apparently what all middle aged people do if they haven't ever played tennis, or not in decades, and then try to play.
Popped off? Hopefully the skin held it on.
Tendons and how much they are shit is basically my life right now. And I've never even seen a tennis.
21: My most irritating subordinate just did something like that to himself playing tennis. Not too severe, but he's limping.
But it's just boring to watch and full of annoying sounds
That's what she said! Did I do it right this time?
I never got into tennis as a kid and found it the most fun when we agreed to play by rules where it didn't matter how many times the ball bounced, just as long as it stayed in bounds.
For a couple of years, I confused pickleball with ga-ga ball. I didn't figure out the difference until the olds I know started talking about pickleball.
What's green, floats in a jar, and sings?
21: it's kind of a thing in one's forties to be totally fine at sports until a ligament remembers it's forty. So condition first!
Skiing is harder because you have to protect your joints while still looking out for Gwyneth Paltrow.
OT: If you show a jet pack in the second act, you have to use it in the end of the second act.
Pickleball looks fun, but I don't see how it's an improvement on badminton, if you can find the shuttlecock.
"Shuttlecock" was the best part of the game when we played in junior high.
Interesting material science problem to develop pickleballs with a charming noise that doesn't travel. How do you make a tiny thing give off a low pitch? Is there another solution?
My relationship to pickle ball is like my relationship to a new pop star whose rise becomes so stratospheric that I can no longer ignore it, but I still don't know or understand what the deal is. I've only seen it happen IRL once, and that was last week as I biked past a park. I understand that it's to be judged, but I can't tell if I would or should empathize with the judgers because, again, I don't understand anything about it.
Racket sports are my Achilles heel, athletically speaking, so it's all a moot point for me. I like racquetball, because no matter how badly you fuck up, the ball will never leave the court, but I haven't played in 25 years and probably would wreck my knees if I tried now.
9: I'm literally stunned to learn that it's that old. Like, I know your'e younger than me, but unless you went to high school 10 years ago*, this is very surprising to me.
I think literally the first time I ever heard the name was when someone asked if we'd want a court in our rebuilt (not yet) neighborhood park. That would have been 3-4 years ago at most.
*I know you did not
31: Starting about a dozen years ago, a small group of us started getting together a few times every summer to play hardball. We never had enough for games, or even pseudogames, but we'd take fielding practice and batting practice. As time has gone on, the number available has dwindled due to those kinds of middle aged injuries. Last summer it was just 3 of us.
OTOH, the good news was that when, in 2016, I was able as a season ticket holder to spend an afternoon doing baseball drills at PNC Park, I was actually in decent shape and didn't embarrass myself. The adrenaline rush of being on a big league field, plus doing drills at a high level*, meant that I felt utterly wiped the next day, even though it didn't seem objectively intense.
*obviously not pro-level, but comfortably beyond anything I'd ever encountered before. In particular they had a machine set up to do fly balls to the OF, and they were very much like real fly balls, traveling a couple hundred feet and at least 100' high
What if you did drills on the field of a team that sucked less?
That's what I was doing with 6 random middle-aged men in Mellon Park.
I play racquetball, can keep a tennis ball in-bounds, I hate pickleball. I know people who like playing, I tried once and just what's the point? Ping pong is actually kind of athletic and takes focus. What's the point of pickleball? Playing is unpleasant because the way the ball bounces is unpredictable and there's no running around or fun tracking where the ball will go next, which is the point of playing a sport with a ball. Pina colada song of games, with the sound coming out of a wii handset. Maybe those people can take up drone racing or something, stop messing up the one place that has a good tennis wall with all the plinky-dinky
So, it's boomer shuffleboard. It's better than being dead. (Probably.)
I learned about pickleball when a composites recycling center opened in our town. Their first product was pickleball paddles. Then they started making pickleball net kits. Now they make benches and stuff like that.
Former racquetball player who has been an avid P-ball player for the past 5 years or so. Was away from the blog for a few days--probably propitiously but now I am back and stupidly adding my thoughts on the subject to this dead thread. Took it up with my wife (a pretty decent adult tennis player previously) when I retired. So yes, we do fit the stereotype of prior racquet sportsters moving to pickleball as we slowed down, but even more so at the beginning it was a sport we found that we could do together well (we both continued with r-ball/tennis for a while but now are pretty much just pickleball.)
A few quick observation and then an ill-considered response.
Like a number of racquet sports I do think it is not really great to watch. In my estimation the fun of watching high-level play goes as follows:
1)Tennis
big drop off
2)Ping-pong
another big drop off
3)badminton
4) Squash, racquetball, platform tennis, pickleball
In part it is because for many of these at the higher levels the play any deviation from certain set shots/patterns are instantly exploited by a high-level opponent. So to enjoy it you need to really appreciate the nuances the strategies and execution.
Pickleball is quite easy to start doing similar to racquetball and probably badminton.
That has led to rapid adoption an does influence the setups where you just go and mix in. But trust me the differences in skill levels are very evident--but you can still have a game.
Now the ill-considered response part:
Ping pong is actually kind of athletic and takes focus. What's the point of pickleball? Playing is unpleasant because the way the ball bounces is unpredictable and there's no running around or fun tracking where the ball will go next, which is the point of playing a sport with a ball.
may be the most concentrated example of willfully smug Kewl Kidz stupidity and wrongness I've encountered on almost any subject not just a pickleball. Come on, there are standards; be contemptuous with dignity for Christ's sake.
The athleticism is on a par with Ping-pong in terms of hand/eye, quickness etc. And despite being a small court, running fast helps-- a lot (but of course many can not do it). And the trajectories are in fact (and of course) generally predictable.
I watched a video of "elite" pickleballers, and it's completely laughable to say it requires anything like the coordination or quickness of ping pong (or Badminton!). Elite ping pong is amazing.
No, you are a laughably fucking wrong. it is quite similar. Very good athletes (below the top tier of the very best at tennis etc. of course) are playing at the top (not very watchable to me levels). The ball is indeed a bit slower, but as with any high-level ball sport, the need for prep and positioning etc. rwquire lightning fast reflexes.
I know you arrogant fuckholes won't believe me on this one but I am actually right.
48 is silly. When you're not elite - like, say, me - it feels a lot like ping pong when you're playing it.
And I certainly agree that elite ping-pong is amazing.
Levels of play at the very top aside, it is interesting to watch the strengths of weaknesses of the many proficient racquet sports practitioners when they play pickleball. It is generally easy to guess there prior sport. And ping-pong tends to be the one where they seem to have the most natural move--platform tennis as well.
Tennis players styles are the strongest for singles (but which is in fact only about 5-10% of the play.
Levels of play at the very top aside, it is interesting to watch the strengths of weaknesses of the many proficient racquet sports practitioners when they play pickleball. It is generally easy to guess there prior sport. And ping-pong tends to be the one where they seem to have the most natural move--platform tennis as well.
Tennis players styles are the strongest for singles (but which is in fact only about 5-10% of the play.
Levels of play at the very top aside, it is interesting to watch the strengths of weaknesses of the many proficient racquet sports practitioners when they play pickleball. It is generally easy to guess there prior sport. And ping-pong tends to be the one where they seem to have the most natural move--platform tennis as well.
Tennis players styles are the strongest for singles (but which is in fact only about 5-10% of the play.
I'll believe 50, it's like beginner ping pong before you learn about spin with a bit more running. I get the appeal, I enjoy low level ping pong, but it's really not the same if you're anything but a beginner.
willfully smug Kewl Kidz stupidity and wrongness
with some editing, this could go into a deck of slogans for mouseover text.
How about
willfully smug insights to open the third eye
I feel like Badminton hits the sweet spot of being fun as a total beginner and also being fun to watch.
We had a ping pong table when I was growing up. It was high enough level that you needed to be about 8 to be tall enough to play.
There is also the fact of which sports attract the truly best athletes, and among racquet sports that is probably tennis, followed by badminton and ping-pong (certainly in some parts of the world). Generally commercially and culturally determined. So yeah the top pickleballers are generally people who would be journeyman-level tennis players. I think the same goes for platform tennis and the indoor court sports.
There was a tennis tournament where Linda Ronstadt and Minnie Riperton played. Please let me know when either Cardi B or Li Saumet touches a whiffleball.
Squash is a weird case. I think the top squash athletes are also very good, but it has such strong class associations.
In high school I had a lot of fun playing racquetball with my dad and brother as a pickleball-esque way of finding a sport where none of us had real skills but where we could have a great time running around and being roughly evenly matched.
I prefer playing games where the ball can bounce. Tennis, 4-square, pickleball over badminton, volleyball, frisbee golf.
Is squash just hoity-toity racquetball? They seem basically the same (as a commoner I've only ever played racquetball).
64: 4-square! I loved that in elementary school! It should be revived as a sport for old folks.
Oh man, I was so into 4-square (and it's 2-player version with two squares each) as a kid. We set up a court in our bedroom! (With 99-cent balls, not the heavy kickballs that would break stuff.)
And tetherball!
I'd like to say tetherball counts as a bouncing sport, because of the bounce induced when the ball is moving slow enough that maybe it could bounce on a taut rope. But in my heart of hearts, I know that doesn't occur.
60: So far I can offer Sugar Ray Leonard and Emma Watson as a team at CBS lame Celebrity tournament. Jamie Foxx is apparently quite good.
Squash is more difficult than racketball and has more room for skill, mostly because the ball is deader which lets you make more skillful shots.
67: The rules for that were byzantine, right? I don't remember the details, but I do remember the rule that the person in the first square got to call out the rules.
68: Big elementary school playground energy. At some point our school boundaries changed and I recall on the playground the first day of school some kid complaining re: some tetherball rule "That's not how we did it at Case." Which of course was met with, "well' you're at Fairlawn now, bud." A small but poignant "new kid" moment which left me (silently of course) completely empathetic.
68.1: Thanks heebie! You're bringing back memories of my glory days as an athlete!
70: But once again from playing it a bit I learned that there were generally only a very few strategies/shots that would ever work against very good players--so it became refining the minute details of those. Not generally my cup of tea. (Of course that hurts me somewhat in pickleball/racquetball but at my level of play both of those offer a lot of options for most situations if you execute it reasonably well.)
Dead thread awoken achievement unlocked--and during the time I was to be preparing for a week+ out-of-town. Now, can I get in a quick Age of empires session before the wife gets home...
I liked 4-square a lot. Another playground game I loved was called "handball," but when I look up handball online the game described is different and sounds much more difficult. Our version had a large freestanding wall, and was played with a large, slow, bouncy ball, which you would bounce off the ground and the wall with your hands.
a) we called 4square piggy bounce out. Yes, bringing that back would be good, maybe set up outside dispensaries.
b) Jamie Foxx was really good in Collateral, as was T Cruise
Like a number of racquet sports I do think it is not really great to watch. In my estimation the fun of watching high-level play goes as follows:
1)Tennis
Tennis is really the best of all sports to watch on tv. Soccer has a similar graphic quality and on-screen visual beauty, but there's not enough action so it's not as consistently engaging.
Having recently attended my first professional tennis match in person, there's so much more than what you see on TV, especially in doubles which they don't even like to televise much. Just the interactions of the ballkids is hilarious, then you add in some drunk Aussies in the stands yelling shit and it's like a party where everyone has to suddenly shut up every 30 seconds or so.
38: Right? I hadn't heard of it again until we moved to Utah and it turned out some dude had been trying to make pickleball a thing, so the university had some courts. And then about three years ago people started playing. Now they're all over the place and it is the sport of unathletic teambuilding exercises.
I can imagine it as a high speed technical sport. Lots of 'new' sports start off with low levels of competition until someone figures out the exploit.
The Calabat was coming home earlier this school year with daily reports about the recess foursquare matches, which were always hotly contested and controversial.
In grade school, we made a game of collecting rocks. It went by volume and there weren't really rocks, so we started counting chunks of pavement that had broken off. Then we started digging/breaking up the sidewalks.
71: I think 4-square is like poker, in that you can play "dealer's choice" with elaborate rules, or you can choose one normal set of rules.
Yeah, Tennis is one of the best spectator sports, either in person or on TV. Especially good right now when you get to watch Carlitos.
Andy Roddick on Pickleball: https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/126tda4/andy_roddick_on_upcoming_pickleball_exhibition/
Another playground game I loved was called "handball," but when I look up handball online the game described is different and sounds much more difficult. Our version had a large freestanding wall, and was played with a large, slow, bouncy ball, which you would bounce off the ground and the wall with your hands.
Our version of this was called Butt's Up. You had to catch the ball with one hand (usually a tennis ball or raquet ball) and throw it back to the wall (without it bouncing on the way to the wall). If you failed in either of those endeavors, you had to run and touch the wall before anyone else got to the ball and hit you with it. If you got hit with the ball, you got a letter towards spelling BUTT. Then once you were a butt, you had to stand with your hands on the wall, facing the wall, and everyone got to hit you with the ball. But only once per person, because we're civilized.
Sorry. I meant to type "That's an interesting game" but autocorrect kicked in.
We played that game but we called it suicide because the beat strategy was to avoid trying to go after the ball at all. If you did you were asking for it.
64: I've never actually played "real" golf (only miniature or "putt-putt"), but I'm pretty sure golf balls do bounce.
Some people yell "bite" to convince them not to bounce, but that doesn't work for me. I just hit the ball into water.
85: At my son's school, this game is called 'red butt.'
When I was a kid, we called it 'wall ball.' It was a less vulgar time.
Contemplating some of my churlish hyperbole on my 400 mile drive, I will walk back 49 a fair bit. Definite overstatement by me. .. but directionally correct. ..,
Als looked up top speeds of balls/shuttlecocks in various sports and holy heck I had no idea that badminton is the fastest; over 200 mp h recorded! (Knew it was very fast, but not that fast.)
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Tennis:
https://twitter.com/BenRothenberg/status/1641953020219990018
Maybe Pickleball is just as fast? I've never seen it.
10 best Pickleball points of the year...
https://youtu.be/26t3Jwu-6vg
It almost never manages anything like the aesthetics of tennis, but in its best moments it does resemble a slower version of ping-pong. Like Table Tennis, shots around the net are the most aesthetic moments. What it reminds me if more than anything else though is Wii Tennis.
For comparison here's the best 10 Table Tennis points from a year:
https://youtu.be/dokC3iGTmSw
I think the similarities with Wii Tennis actually explain a lot. Wii Tennis is super fun, so Wii Tennis plus a light workout has obvious appeal.
Apparently elite Wii Tennis runs into a button mashing problem though, making it look a bit less like Pickleball.
I looked at the top 10 pickleball points video and I can't remember if I finished watching the first of the highlights before closing it.
The 5th best Table Tennis one (starting at 3:33) is amazing. There's an interesting balance in that list between great rallies and great individual shots, and 5 is just one shot.
79: I saw Martina Navritalova place doubles live after she had already retired from singles. It was incredible.
I just learned who Chris Pine's dad is.
The ping pong highlights are impressive. The #1 rally is pretty astonishing.
It's wild how far away from the table they can get in top level ping pong.
105: Yes. The basements where I played ping-pong never had nearly that much room
Here's 10 points of Badminton:
https://youtu.be/6RqND3BAf1A
I think it's a bit less visually appealing than Tennis or Table Tennis, but all the jumping is kinda fun.
Honestly, all of these get really repetitive.
They lack the chemistry you get watching Chris Pine and Michelle Rodriguez.
95. The camera angle in those table tennis clips is weird. Makes it look like they're playing on a coffee table.
There's probably a question to which "Asa Hutchinson" is the answer, but I'm not sure what that question is.
100: Yeah, per me even in my overly defensive churlishness it is not at all a good sport to watch.
However, is one is so inclined there is an Agassi/McEnroe:Chang/Roddick pball thing on ESPN righr this very minute.
112: Which Republican gave a semi-reasonable response to the indictment. Of course that alone effectively caps his support in the primary at 3%.
Speaking of Agassi cashing in, back around 2010 I saw an exhibition tennis match at MSG between Agassi and Sampras after they retired. It was not close because Sampras still has a hell of a serve which goes a long way when they've both lost a lot of their athleticism.
Thread dropped off the front page but I found this one entertaining in the contrasting styles.
That's delightful.
I do think a bunch of the joy with ping pong is how crazy the spin is. The left-to-right break of his last couple shots before the winner are remarkable. You can really just see the ball swerve in ways that you don't see in many other sports (though shout out to wizard Luka Modric).