Re: Sweatshops

1

I think socks are basically automated. Maybe everything knitted?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 5:51 AM
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Boring answer: flexible, stretchy materials - fabric - are way harder for machines to deal with. Your clothing production could be automated if it was all rigid plastic exoskeleton armor, though.

It is fascinating to watch How It's Made or other factory-porn kind of video and see which parts are heavily automated and which parts are done by hand; sometimes it makes sense and sometimes it doesn't, and I wonder if there's economic logic to it or just path dependence.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 6:07 AM
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3

That was great tv.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 6:17 AM
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4

Ah! That's interesting that it really is a difficult technological challenge. Huh.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 6:18 AM
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5

My sweater appears to be knitted in one piece for the torso, but the sleeves look to be added separately. I guess because knitting a tube works easily.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 6:21 AM
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6

This morning one of the kids asked his brother why there were holes in his pants and I thought he was making a joke (for your legs to go in) but there actually were holes torn on the back of his brother's pants.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 6:25 AM
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7

A closely-related area is laundry folding. This turns out to be incredibly difficult!
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/22/1130552239/robot-folding-laundry


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 6:29 AM
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8

2: This is also my understanding--the tech isn't there.


Posted by: J, Robot | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 6:49 AM
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9

If the tech doesn't exist, why isn't Musk selling it regardless.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 6:54 AM
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10

Actual laugh at 9.

Derek Guy (the menswear guy that suddenly everyone started getting fed on Twitter by the algorithm) has quite a lot of blogposts and twitter feeds about the actual costs of garment manufacturing, and the processes involved.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 7:00 AM
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7: but for home use, a robot that was very slow at folding but didn't procrastinate could still be the better choice.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 7:05 AM
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12

And I think it would be pretty simple for a machine to fold sheets - at least flat ones - for a hotel linen service.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 7:09 AM
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13

Folding fitted sheets is easy if you have low standards.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 7:13 AM
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14

With clothing, because of the sweatshop thing and the environment thing, I've been trying to buy fewer, better pieces. It's hard to be sure about the "better". Also, I've been trying to buy wool instead of artificial fabrics, but I'm thinking I can't resist PolarTec Alpha much longer.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 7:46 AM
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15

I'm sure I mentioned at the time that in 2008/09 I worked on a case involving clothing manufacture and got a tour of the client's factory in Lawrence Mass. It was pretty neat -- the machines for making the fabric out of thread looked like they belonged on a Star Trek ship. They were making fluffy pink fleece (maybe for North Face?) the day I was there, so there were a number of different steps.

There wasn't any of the finished sewing that the OP is about -- I had a client in Kabul that did that when I toured few years later, and it was rows of women at sewing machines.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 7:47 AM
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16

Baskets can only be made by hand too. I'm wondering if that's why the cheap baskets at TJMaxx type stores are now imprinted plastic, rather than cane. Or else I've moved to a poor enough place the store owners think we won't buy them.


Posted by: hydrobatidae | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 8:17 AM
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re: 14

I'm sort of trying to do the same. I'm not entirely succeeding. I don't have the cash to go out and spend the sort of money that the most ethically and sustainably made clothes cost. But I do try more and more to buy less, and to buy better, where I can. I looked, just now, at the rating the brands I typically buy from have on various sites that rate brands for their sustainability, labour conditions and environmental impact, and they aren't the worst, but they also aren't that great, either.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 8:18 AM
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18

All the cool people are buying hoodies from Senchi Designs and I don't even own a hoodie except for a thirty-year old one that says "Ohio State."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 8:37 AM
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I am still too much of a consumerist - I like acquiring things - to go the high quality route. But if I'm thrifting old clothes, I don't feel quite as much guilt over the exploited workers and environmental woes of the fashion industry. Then the only constraining factors are my bulging closet.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 8:42 AM
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20

A Senchi Designs hoodie can smush down to the size of an apple. And not a really big apple either.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 8:43 AM
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21

A wool hoodie won't do that and also won't dry as quickly if it gets wet.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 8:47 AM
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22

I've never heard of a Senchi Designs hoodie. I also didn't see snow this year, so I am probably not the target market.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 8:52 AM
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23

The cool people go out into forests and mountains when it's cold.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 8:59 AM
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24

When they're cool, they should wear a Senchi Designs hoodie.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 9:10 AM
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25

And a layer to block the wind unless it is dead calm.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 9:39 AM
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26

Cora Harrington, who used to run The Lingerie Addict blog, has done some amazing Twitter threads on this topic. My understanding from her work is that a human makes virtually any piece of clothing any of us are ever wearing. There is just too much variability (fabric texture, clothing cut, precision sewing tasks) for the automation to be possible.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 10:21 AM
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27

What if we all went back to wearing robes?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 10:26 AM
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28

What NW and Witt said. Sewing flat fabric pieces into three-dimensional garments is surprisingly tricky. Bras used to be more expensive when the cups were constructed of multiple pieces that had to be sewn together to form a three-dimensional shape. They're much cheaper now that they're made of polyurethane foam, which is injection-molded into a cup shape. Eventually we'll all wear neoprene bodysuits that can be directly shaped onto 3-D molds, and those of us who want a more retro look can pay a premium for artisanal sweatshop labor.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 10:59 AM
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29

I guess that's why you don't see many stores offering codpieces.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 11:11 AM
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30

Oh, there's a great informed blog about this by a woman who consults for clothing factories, but I can't find it.

Most clothing material is not just stretchy but anisometric -- different stretch along different axes. Even old fashioned wovens. Any garment more complicated than a pillowcase sews seams with stretch -- sometimes each side of the seam has different stretch at each point. This is hard enough for hands to get used to; robots are not good at it yet. If we wanted exactly the same clothes season after season, maybe we could develop machines to repeat one complicated seam, but that's not how we do.

There are machines for difficult but standardized and *stabilized* parts -- dress shirt cuffs, for instance. Fun YouTube rabbithole.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 11:12 AM
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Oh, huh. I had wondered why molded foam bras had become dominant, because I hate them. Hadn't occurred to me that they're cheaper to make.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 11:47 AM
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32

Molded foam bras are awful! Fortunately I had my breasts removed.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 11:50 AM
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28 and 31: I am pretty oblivious to this trend and didn't realize that bras had gotten cheaper. I have a petite frame but large chest, somI stick with the few brands and styles that work, and they haven't changed and don't seem to be inexpensive.

My ugly compression sports bra is also not cheap. I'm guessing there's a lot of human labor involved in its production. While incredibly ugly and expensive ($80 now, up from $60) it allows me to participate in athletic activities comfortably.

||

The MBTA has hired a new general manager who used to be in charge of the Long Island Railroad. Philip Eng. Do any New Yorkers know any5hing about his turn-around abilities? I guess LIRR was not great at one point.

|>


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 12:02 PM
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34

I thought foam bras were to hide nipples.


Posted by: chill | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 12:05 PM
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35

33 last: have you ever tried to turn a train around? NOT THAT EASY!


Posted by: OPINIONATED LIRR | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 12:06 PM
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36

34: Everyone loves nipples.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 12:11 PM
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37

32: Area Woman with One Weird Trick to Disrupt the Bra Industry


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 12:15 PM
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38

18: https://www.cosplaysos.com/collections/the-simpsons-hoodies/products/the-simpsons-hoodie-marge-simpson-pullover-hoodie-cssg106


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 12:57 PM
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39

Looks good, but I'll wait until Backpacking Light does a review.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 1:02 PM
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40

28 It does seem like a variation on the 3D printer could someday be doing this. There's huge variation between individual humans, but a device that took a full body scan would seemingly have all the data needed to design and make clothes for that one person. Zipper in the back, single seam-less garment. Looser or tighter to order.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 3:23 PM
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41

Zipper in the back, single seam-less garment.

No one wants to ask their coworker for help to use the office toilet. Clothing in the future will need to have a bum flap.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 3:47 PM
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40: I dunno, I think that could only work with plastic-like materials, as noted above. Scuba suits, yes. Anything recognizable as woven or knitted fabric? Hard to imagine. But I'm not an engineer -- or a seamstress.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 3:48 PM
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40: I dunno, I think that could only work with plastic-like materials, as noted above. Scuba suits, yes. Anything recognizable as woven or knitted fabric? Hard to imagine. But I'm not an engineer -- or a seamstress.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 3:48 PM
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44

I remember that The Fabric Of Civilization talks about computer-aided 3D knitting in the final chapter, but I can't find references online.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 3:56 PM
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45

43. Maybe instead of 3d printing fabric into a human clothing shape, textiles would be woven into large tubes (or spheres, if Charley insists on wearing a onesie) which could then be shrunken onto dressmaker dummies. Kind of the same principle by which Issey Miyake 3D Steam Stretch fabric is made.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 3:58 PM
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46

I still think you'd get all the advantages of easy manufacturing plus easy voiding with something like the old monastic robes.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 4:11 PM
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47

I mean, you'd hardly need restrooms in outdoor spaces.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 4:15 PM
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48

I bet ChatGPT could learn to sew a bra. It might have three cups, though.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 4:27 PM
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49

Stop training it on Total Recall.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 4:43 PM
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50

Are you sure I didn't get to the AI first?


Posted by: Opinionated Eccentrica Gallumbits | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 5:47 PM
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51

41 This is one reason no one takes fashion design advice from me.

45 I'd definitely take a sphere.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 7:06 PM
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52

So what I'm hearing here is that there's a huge demand for Thneeds.


Posted by: Opinionated Once-ler | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 7:12 PM
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51.2 Oh wait, I just realized that 45 could be construed to be a comment on body shape, which I didn't intend at all. I was picturing that you could take a sphere, shrink it onto a mannequin, and cut it at the neck and wrists and ankles to make a onesie. Trust me, it made sense until I thought it through.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 7:25 PM
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54

Onesies should have hoods too.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 8:22 PM
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55

Babies are often bald and, frankly, absurd looking.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 8:33 PM
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56

Anyway, I recommend putting babies in sweat pants, especially after they start eating solid food, because they can shit like you wouldn't believe and you have a better chance at not having to figure out how to get them out of a be-shiited shirt if the shirt isn't attached to their pants.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 8:40 PM
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57

We never had a girl and probably wouldn't have gone for super girly baby clothes anyway, but those baby tights with the butt ruffles are just absurd. Poop comes out of the sides a diapers so often. How do you even wash butt-ruffles?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 8:51 PM
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58

+ OT:


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 9:04 PM
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59

That's all I remember about babies.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 9:14 PM
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60

56. Seems like the obvious answer is to dress babies in monastic robes. They come with hoods, even.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 9:41 PM
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2 is true but won't be for long. Quick google and it lokks like the ILO reckons 60-80% of clothing industry jobs in countries like Cambodia and Bangladesh could be automated by 2030


Posted by: Ajay | Link to this comment | 03-27-23 11:21 PM
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62

50: I'm just this guy, you know?


Posted by: Opinionated Zaphod Beeblebrox | Link to this comment | 03-28-23 1:42 AM
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60: I'm working on a Kickstarter.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-28-23 6:37 AM
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