Re: Guest Post: Brazil's Indigenous population

1

Heebietake: This census was conducted during the Bolsonaro presidency.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 7:26 AM
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2

What.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 7:42 AM
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3

Survey methodology and opinion measurements are a huge pain for me right now, professionally.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 7:52 AM
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4

Wasn't there a period when most of the government departments weren't listening to Bolsonaro? That doesn't help on the military/paramilitary intimidation front, but it may have afforded better methodologies being instituted.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 7:57 AM
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5

The current position of the Brazilian president (and indeed of his predecessor) with regard to an actual ongoing genocide of indigenous people is that, meh, genocide is a very strong term, there are probably faults on both sides, and anyway he doesn't want to make too much of a fuss because it might annoy the people with whom he has an extremely important fertiliser import deal.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 8:40 AM
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6

||

NMM to Yevgeny Prigozhin

|>


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 10:00 AM
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7

6. oh geez


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 10:05 AM
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8

Deniable too. A rare display of competence from the mighty Russian special services?


Posted by: mc | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 10:05 AM
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9

I wouldn't let the Russians design my census questionnaire regardless.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 10:06 AM
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10

They got Utkin too. You think he would have known enough to have traveled separately


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 10:09 AM
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11

He probably figured he just needed to drink from a different samovar.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 10:21 AM
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12

Is that saying historically, indigenous people were murdered, or is it saying specifically during Bolsonaro's regime, indigenous people were murdered for being indigenous? I know the destruction of the rainforest under Bolsonaro came with a lot of deadly consequences for indigenous people, but that's slightly different from feeling like it's unsafe to identify your identity for fear of being killed.

Historically Brazil had a very problematic legal regime where "uncontacted" tribes didn't have any legal protection, so there was a huge incentive for miners and loggers to kill them before the government could contact them. This may have changed; I'm unsure of the current status of the law. This wouldn't apply to members of recognized tribes being counted in the Census but it's part of the overall atmosphere of fear that would lead people to downplay Indigenous ancestry.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 10:21 AM
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13

And on the 80th anniversary of the liberation of Kharkov.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 10:22 AM
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14

Anyway he was a piece of shit and I'm glad he's dead. And gladder still the ISW fanwanking will fade out.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 10:23 AM
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15

Speaking of Bolsonaro, apparently he's been fencing watches received as state presents from Gulf monarchies, which is extremely on brand.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 10:24 AM
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16

I don't understand why you'd cut a deal if you tried to attack a state like Russia. It's not like you conspired to overturn an election in a state that still makes some effort to use its legal system.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 10:26 AM
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12: Presumably related, some of the links mention addition of helicopters, police escorts, and cultivation of Indigenous contacts.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 10:28 AM
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9: Are you suggesting the Soviet censuses in the 1930s weren't on the up and up?


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 10:31 AM
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19

ISW fanwanking? I read the site for their updates regularly and must have missed something


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 10:31 AM
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20

I wouldn't believe the coal mining statistics either.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 10:32 AM
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21

Fanwank isn't quite the word I want. Fanficing? Swifting? Help me out, Theorists. Anyway, endless breathless coverage of every last whisper, grotesquely out of proportion to any significance.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 10:43 AM
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||||
Would mass cultivation of the Three sisters assemblage be practical with new robotics? Would it be worthwhile?
|>|>


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 10:45 AM
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23

I'm hearing good things about monoculture corn, assuming crop rotation with beans.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 10:52 AM
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24

The ISW updates themselves were pretty instructive in retrospect - lots of little indications of Prigozhin trying to build up a power base / independent legitimacy and support. At the time I thought "Surely there's a very small chance of anything here being intimated actually happening" and then it all happened.

Seems like YVP had two planes traveling together and he may in fact have been on the other one? That would be some great luck though.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 10:55 AM
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25

"Not being on the plane you say you are going to be on" seems like Strategy 101 if you've tried to out Putin.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 11:36 AM
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26

I see there's a situation in Garfield. You're OK, Mobes?


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 12:25 PM
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27

The cat?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 12:27 PM
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28

After opening the paper: Yikes. Yes, we're all fine here. Didn't go up that way today.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 12:29 PM
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29

I guess it's kind of on topic because according to random asshats (Reddit), he has been shooting down drones. According to everyone, he has been shooting hundreds of rounds into a residential neighborhood.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 1:05 PM
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30

In tonight's debate, will someone be smart enough to personally insult Trump? Maybe Christie? If you really want to be Trump-lite, you do it by calling Trump "slow" or "too old" or "doddering" or even "stupid" in exactly that kind of straightforward language. You call him a "coward" for refusing to show up.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 5:30 PM
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31

"Pussy" would be better than "coward." I missed my calling. I should have been a Republican political consultant.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 5:33 PM
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32

I hadn't seen Vivek Ramaswamy before. He gives off this smarmy, unctuous asshole vibe. He's really helping himself in this debate.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 5:53 PM
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33

I just looked at the NYT infographic. Looks like Christie has a narrow lead. Could go down to the wire!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 6:37 PM
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34

In the most attacked category, Biden and Trump are tied!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 6:39 PM
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35

Pence has taken the lead!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 6:41 PM
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36

Pence is surprisingly strong. I'm also a bit surprised at some cheering for anti-Trump talk. (No doubt because the candidates filled the seats.)


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 6:44 PM
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37

Christie briefly took the lead back, but Pence charged back in front!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 6:46 PM
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38

34: Trump took the lead for most attacked.

Trump is still a distant second to abortion in the most discussed category.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 6:49 PM
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39

We're talking about a lead in time talking, right? I wonder if anybody is doing one of those favorability thermometers.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 6:49 PM
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40

39: Yes

But in a truly shocking twist Ramaswamy has tied Trump for most attacked, both ahead of Biden!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 6:51 PM
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41

40.2: But now Biden has jumped ahead of both of them!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 7:04 PM
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42

Are they counting "Biden" and "Brandon" together?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 7:12 PM
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43

I'm a little surprised at the lack of total repugnance of this thing. A lot of time is being spent discussing the vileness of Ramaswamy, Trump, and Pence. That's not wrong. And nobody seems to care about DeSantis, which also seems appropriate.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 7:15 PM
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44

"the mine will not stop producing anytime soon, so it is better for me to move my cabbage."


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 7:17 PM
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45

The one guy in The Last Airbender was more stubborn.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 7:35 PM
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46

Ramaswamy was a HUGE asshole. My guess is that the emerging consensus will be that he was the winner. It'll be interesting to see how it all gets spun.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 7:39 PM
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47

Apparently, when they arrest you in Atlanta, your weight becomes public information. The government has always believed me when I lie about my weight. I guess because I've never been arrested


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-23-23 8:40 PM
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48

Its like they've never even heard of HIPAA.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 08-24-23 5:12 AM
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49

They heard of it, but googled 'HIPPA' by mistake.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-24-23 5:41 AM
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50

BRASILIA, Aug 23 (Reuters) - The Brazilian Senate's Agriculture Committee on Wednesday voted 13-3 to approve legislation that would rule out recognition of Indigenous lands if they were not lived on by 1988, a bill that is backed by Brazil's powerful farm lobby.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-24-23 7:25 AM
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51

5: I'm behind here, but Lula literally accused the Bolsonaro government of genocide using that exact word, so I'm not sure why you're asserting that he thinks genocide is too strong a term.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 08-24-23 11:50 AM
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52

It's not happening in the Geno region of France.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-24-23 12:07 PM
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53

51: it's another big country in the BRICS group he means. Famous for its carbon dioxide emissions


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 08-24-23 1:00 PM
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54

53: Ohhhhh, that makes sense. Thank you.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 08-24-23 1:35 PM
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55

He's staunchly opposed to genocide of potential Lula voters. Genocide in general, he takes a more nuanced view.


Posted by: Ajay | Link to this comment | 08-24-23 10:33 PM
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56

So does 50 simply mean "as long as you killed or chased off all the locals before 1988, you're fine"?


Posted by: Ajay | Link to this comment | 08-24-23 10:34 PM
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57

55: More charitably, he's opposed to every genocide he has the power to commit and that's not a given for people in his position.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-25-23 5:01 AM
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58

56 We here in the Western Hemisphere cling to the concept of a moral statute of limitations on genocide and expropriation like grim death.

Earlier in the week, I heard the most authentically moving land acknowledgement ever. Really. What made it so was it's earnestly personal nature: her appreciation for what her Salish colleagues had taught her about caring for the land (her job is managing the university's hundreds of acres of open spaces.)


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 08-25-23 6:37 AM
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57: I kind of feel that "yay, he is not actually going to commit a genocide himself" is about as low as expectations get.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08-25-23 6:44 AM
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60

Considering that the opposition would be all too happy to commit a genocide I'll take it


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 08-25-23 7:10 AM
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61

The government's steps to make drilling a national privilege was also a response to the growing popularity of a conspiracy theory that Brazil had massive quantities of untouched hydrocarbons carefully concealed by the 'Gringos'. The theory postulated that US American oil firms (in some versions also the US government, or the CIA) wanted to prevent Brazil from becoming a major energy producer and rising as the 'other' American giant, onto a level playing field with its northern rival. O Escândalo do Petróleo (The Petroleum Scandal, 1936), an essay by Monteiro Lobato that quickly became Brazil's highest-selling (twenty thousand copies in the first five months) and most reeditioned book, granted public legitimacy to this story.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-27-23 4:56 AM
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62

Now verily I say unto you
That one of your twelve will become untrue,
One will sell Me among the kinship of Jews,
Will sell Me for silver, and will take such riches,
Such precious treasure; and give his Lord in return,
His sweet, his beloved Liege. But great sorrow shall come
unto him
From that deed, and much pain. For he shall perceive them,
The Weird Sisters, and shall see the end of his care.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-27-23 6:44 AM
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