Re: Nusantara

1

Isn't it a problem that a city of 30 million people is sinking? If you move the government, you still have a city of like 29 million people that is sinking.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 7:24 AM
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2

They have a plan. They're going to build a bunch of artificial barrier islands and stuff.


Posted by: mc | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 7:27 AM
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3

They seem to be hedging their bets though.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 7:31 AM
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4

Indonesia is quite extraordinary for the delta between "quantity of weird and extreme stuff happening in country" and "number of times it appears in the news in the West".


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 7:32 AM
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5

I used to share an office with a guy who was a columnist for the Indonesian version of Time magazine. This was back when Time magazine was an important news source. The Asian financial crisis hit him hard because is Indonesian earnings became close to worthless in Ohio.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 7:36 AM
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6

Already are building, by the looks of it.


Posted by: mc | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 7:37 AM
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7

5: ouch. Yes, you definitely want to be paid in the local currency in that situation.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 7:40 AM
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8

His employer was Indonesian.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 7:44 AM
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9

And they felt their readers were eager for coverage of Ohio?


Posted by: mc | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 7:47 AM
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10

I don't know what his columns were about.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 7:52 AM
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11

We have an Indonesian faculty member here who works on stuff like the history/sociology of rural electrification in Indonesia which is a really knotty and interesting problem when you think about it.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 8:05 AM
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12

If only Le Corbusier were alive today to design them an awful and impractical city that no one wanted to live in.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 8:07 AM
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13

I don't know what his columns were about.

Supporting Jakarta?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 8:08 AM
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14

Heh.


Posted by: mc | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 8:19 AM
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15

Reminds me of the whole planetary-colonization discourse - if you're not able to correct the problems of your existing city, if you just head off and build a new one, you're likely to either make the same mistakes or new mistakes in a way you can't correct either.

Looks like Malaysia also did this 20 years ago, but less than 20km away from the center of Kuala Lumpur, plus they just call Putrajaya the "administrative center" rather than the capital.

And of course Naypyidaw in Burma. And to a lesser extent the whole garden-city thing.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 8:28 AM
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16

15: also Astana in Kazakhstan (replacing Almaty/Alma-Ata as capital).

"Let's build ourselves a completely new capital city in the middle of a pestilential swamp at huge expense and name it after the guy in charge at the time" wasn't a universal sentiment among 18th century nations but it's weird that it happened as often as it did.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 8:46 AM
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17

16.2: Good subtweet, yes.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 8:48 AM
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18

(Also sinking.)


Posted by: mc | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 8:51 AM
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19

But that's a much slower sinking.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 8:55 AM
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20

Also https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/mar/23/story-of-cities-8-st-petersburg-city-built-on-bones-starting-to-crumble


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 10:24 AM
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21

The map in 18 is cool but also annoying because basically everywhere is one of two shades of blue, and one of those shades of blue conceals a lot of what's most interesting. Charleston plots as dark blue, which could be 2mm/year subsidence, but it turns out actually is more than 4mm/year because their color scale maxes out at -2.


Posted by: chill | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 11:26 AM
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22

Before cities are literally awash they have problems with not having anywhere lower for sewage to go, AIUI. I daydream sometimes about an alternative urban history in which water was scarce enough that the "mix your sewage with a river" system didn't ever become dominant and instead we improved gong-farming. Think how good our airtight seals would be!

(Bring out your dead!)


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 1:40 PM
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23

We still send feces to Cincinnati whenever it rains a bunch.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 3:30 PM
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24

The alternatives -- continuing to have the capital in Philadelphia or NYC -- were obviously completely unacceptable. Will no one think to the members of Congress (and the Executive agencies) who own slaves?


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 7:08 PM
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25

South Korea attempted (or is still attempting?) to move its capital from Seoul (too old, too crowded, too close to the DPRK border) to Sejong City, a new city they they started building from scratch about twenty years ago. Some governmental functions have been transferred to Sejong City, but not a lot of people live there. I've never been. I heard it's boring.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 8:05 PM
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26

24: That's not why they moved it. Slavery was legal in both New York and Pennsylvania at the time.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 9:28 PM
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27

25: jms! Owing to complicated inter-family negotiations it looks like we are all going to South Korea in July. Would it be all right if we hit you up for thoughts (other than "maybe don't go to South Korea in July, it will be hot and/or rain all day")?


Posted by: lourdes kayak | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 9:38 PM
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28

25: jms! Owing to complicated inter-family negotiations it looks like we are all going to South Korea in July. Would it be all right if we hit you up for thoughts (other than "maybe don't go to South Korea in July, it will be hot and/or rain all day")?


Posted by: Kim Il Sung | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 9:58 PM
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29

"We still send feces to Cincinnati whenever it rains a bunch."

I am picturing some sort of ceremonial parade here.


Posted by: Ajay | Link to this comment | 02-26-24 11:12 PM
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30

I like especially the implication of ancient tradition dutifully preserved.


Posted by: mc | Link to this comment | 02-27-24 1:04 AM
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31

Like the Sixty-One Nails thing in London, or the Maltese Falcon.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 02-27-24 1:51 AM
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32

||
His Majesty then went on to explain that, now old age was creeping upon him, he proposed to devote his remaining strength to bringing about a keener sense of local patriotism in the various municipalities of London. How few of them knew the legends of their own boroughs! How many there were who had never heard of the true origin of the Wink of Wandsworth! What a large proportion of the younger generation in Chelsea neglected to perform the old Chelsea Chuff! Pimlico no longer pumped the Pimlies. Battersea had forgotten the name of Blick.

There was a short silence, and then a voice said "Shame."

The King continued: "Being called, however unworthily, to this high estate, I have resolved that, so far as possible, this neglect shall cease. I desire no military glory. I lay claim to no constitutional equality with Justinian or Alfred. If I can go down to history as the man who saved from extinction a few old English customs, if our descendants can say it was through this man, humble as he was, that the Ten Turnips are still eaten in Fulham, and the Putney parish councillor still shaves one half of his head, I shall look my great fathers reverently but not fearfully in the face when I go down to the last house of Kings."
|>


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 02-27-24 1:54 AM
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33

26 Yeah, but the writing was on the wall. You can see in art I sec 9 that everyone understood were things were headed. The fugitive slave clause too. And the Northwest Ordinance.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 02-27-24 6:35 AM
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34

I was just checking a few things about the formation of DC and why don't we ever talk about the Pennsylvania Mutiny of 1783, especially since 1/6?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 02-27-24 9:33 AM
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35

27/28: hmmm, jms may have to tailor her responses to the scenario where we're followed around the south by zombie Kim Il Sung. I guess it's some kind of honor but it will still be gross, especially in July.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 02-27-24 9:37 AM
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36

Occasionally I think about sea level rise and how my home sits in a spot that was underwater until, I'm not sure, 1850 or so? and worry this will eventually be bad. But for now I'm more worried about all the water that gets in through the roof than whatever may be happening below. And so much of this city used to be underwater that at least if bad things happen they will probably happen to lots of other people first.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 02-27-24 10:00 AM
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37

27: Yes, email me! It will definitely be hot, and may possibly rain all day.

28: lol


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 02-27-24 11:51 AM
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38

lol, I hadn't seen 28 till now, well played.


Posted by: lourdes kayak | Link to this comment | 02-27-24 9:45 PM
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39

Americans have an advantage when it comes to watching cheesy science fiction films without cringing because they have actual real people in their country with titles like "Supervisor Melgar". https://twitter.com/HACdotorg/status/1762634233015836821

(We have the edge with regard to cheesy fantasy films because we actually have things like Cape Wrath, the House of Lords, the Shadow Chancellor etc)


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 02-28-24 2:21 AM
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40

Is there no Councillor Quatermass in the whole of the United Kingdom?


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 02-28-24 3:18 AM
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41

In my screenplay, there's an evil sage called The Prothonotary, but I haven't figured out which syllable to stress to make the evil clear.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-28-24 4:58 AM
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42

"Tar", I should think.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 02-28-24 3:25 PM
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43

Mossy always knows how to pique our interest with intriguing links, doesn't he? The idea of Indonesia constructing an entire new city from scratch is indeed mind-boggling. Jakarta's infrastructure challenges have been well-documented, so this ambitious project seems like a proactive solution.

The thought of who might have been displaced and the logistics of resettlement is definitely something to ponder. It's a complex process, balancing progress with the needs and rights of affected communities. And I can't help but wonder about the moment when this new city will be unveiled - will it be a grand ceremony or a gradual transition? Either way, it's sure to be a fascinating development to watch unfold.


Posted by: Dylan | Link to this comment | 03- 2-24 11:34 PM
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44

Ok, this is getting a little scary


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 03- 3-24 3:25 AM
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45

Indonesia, Sleeping Giant at Malaysia's Doorstep.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 3-24 5:37 AM
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46

When we were kids we had to write our own banal comment spam.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 3-24 5:39 AM
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