Where are New Yorkers retiring to now, in that case?

In my experience, midwesterners retire to Arizona. It's a dry heat. At least, everyone in my family that has moved south or bought a winter home, moved to where near something called "Phoenix."

Pennsylvanians still go to Florida in huge numbers and I think it's mostly just the Republicans. At least my in-laws get right-wing nonsense emailed to them from friends who are now in Florida.

And even western PA is not midwestern.

I think if you have a house in Florida and want to main benefit (other than not freezing to death while going to the Wawa), you need to reside in Florida more than 1/2 of the year which means you can't vote in your home state. Unless you want to commit voter fraud while loudly denouncing Democrats for committing voter fraud. Which, they probably do.

New Yorkers go to the Midwest. Stormcrow explained this all - they follow the vowels around in a circle. It was complicated.

My in-laws also are doing the Phoenix thing, if you consider it Phoenix when you're an hour outside of Phoenix, on a golf course, surrounded by saguaro, where clearly there is no water to be found for days, except the pipes seem to deliver on cue.

I've never been, but that's probably it.

I was surprised to learn about the number of well-off, not-retired people from the midwest who spent the winter in Arizona golfing. And this was before covid.

I don't actually know if there's been a systematic change in behavior, or if it's a real thing, but my sense of people who live literally in NYC is that they normally retire in place. Retiring to Florida is something I know from dated fiction.

People with a whole lot of money who had lived in the suburbs and worked in the city move into city apartments in later retirement: they garden or do whatever suburbanites do in their sixties and early seventies, and then potter around the city in their later seventies and eighties. But this isn't social science, it's my personal collection of anecdotes.

"Florida is a hell of a drug", as the sage said.

I met a New Yorker who went around the county giving talks so that she could afford to stay in a nice part of Manhattan for her old age.

New Yorkers are getting it right, in that case. The bane of our social services is people going "ooh let's retire to somewhere lovely and remote in the country". Brilliant. Thank you. So:
1. You're taking a house that could be used by a working-age family, making it even harder for them to stay in the area.
2. You're then going to campaign in your copious free time against any more houses being built because it would spoil the natural beauty.
3. You're 300 miles away from your family so there's no one to keep an eye on you, so you'll need paid carers, which we can't recruit because there's nowhere for them to live.
4. When you start needing regular medical care, the nearest GP practice is ten miles away and the hospital is fifty miles away, and you can't drive.
5. We can't keep the practices staffed anyway because the place is remote and full of elderly people and there isn't anywhere for staff to live.
6. There's nothing for you to do if you can't drive, except for, what, mountain biking and rock climbing? So you're going to be housebound.

...when you could have moved into a nice flat in a walkable city and spent your days pottering around the bookshops and the galleries!

I thought the cities there, or at least London, was so short of housing that young people couldn't afford to start a family there.

You move to Midsummer and get murdered. Problem solved.

10 is what my parents have done on LI. They used to stay with my brother in Florida for about 5 months of the year when his kids were growing up but now that they're in college and my brother has remarried they're just staying put for the winter. It's a very nice house if suburbs are your thing.

Does your brother's new wife hate them?

Not at all, they get along very well but the whole dynamic has changed

They were dating on and off for around 20 years so she helped raise his kids.

My grandparents lived in Manhattan and spent a month or two each winter in Florida. I don't think it was entirely a narrative trope.

Vaguely amusingly, they did not spend a month or two near us, nor come visit us in any sense. That is not the sentimental side of the family.

My wife and I talk wistfully about the possibility of retiring in NYC, but we know we couldn't pull it off financially. I expect we'll end up near her family in Virginia.

There's a New York, New York casino in Nevada you could retire in the general area of.

Anyway, I'm still not supposed to go to Florida to visit people. But probably soon.

10: Dana Farber cancer in Boston used to have fundraisers in Palm Beach even ten years ago. I think Cleveland clinic and Mayo have moved down there, but healthcare was kind of wild and over consumed down there, so a lot of folks who spend the summer up here like to have a doctor in Massachusetts in addition to one in Florida in case they get really sick.

I think, anecdotally, with the craziness in Florida that people find North Carolina attractive.

There was a book I read when I was dealing with my parents that was written by a reporter about helping her aging mother in 2001. She was one of the first in her cohort to deal with these issues. But basically, she had to bring her Mom back to NY from Florida when she was sick enough to need a nursing home. Florida was great for when you were active walking and did not want to shovel snow (65-78, maybe) but it was too hard to manage the really serious illnesses from that distance. So maybe the baby boomers are too old to live in Florida?

24 to 25.

Feel like it's still very much a thing. My wife's (Jewish) family retired to Miami.

We have a summer bungalow in the Catksills in a coop of 22 units. 3 of the units are owned by retired NYC public school teachers who spend their winter in Florida. And plenty of NYC finance and other rich people spend a lot of time in Florida. (The Chamber Music Society has a whole winter season in West Palm).

Feel like the move in the Florida vote has as much to do with Hispanics turning dramatically towards Trump (and more seemingly coming) as it does conservative retirees. He even did reasonably well with displaced Puerto Ricans in Florida after Maria.

24: Just waiting for the statute of limitations to run?

I'm waiting for someone to get healthy enough that they don't need help before I go help them.

27: conventional wisdom has that Hispanics in Florida were always Republican because they were predominantly cuban.

27: conventional wisdom has that Hispanics in Florida were always Republican because they were predominantly cuban.

I've heard that from two sources.

A big part of Florida's growth has been youngish people migrating from rural, economically depressed, parts of other Southern states, since people tend to migrate to the closest place they can find a job. Rural areas of Alabama, Southern Georgia, Louisiana, and Mississippi are highly Republican.

Seems plausible, but I've only heard it once.

27: conventional wisdom has that Hispanics in Florida were always Republican because they were predominantly cuban.

I'm a Cuban-American from Miami. The most politically influential and older block (my parents generation) has always been strongly Republican. But by the 2012 Presidential Election the Cuban-American vote in Florida was close to an even split (Obama carried the overall Hispanic vote in Florida by a lot). The bulk of post-Mariel arrivals were pretty moderate and voted Democratic. But since then, as it has in Texas, the Hispanic vote has shifted towards Republicans and especially Trump. A lot of Gen-Z and younger millennial Cuban-American men are very MAGA.

My father's parents moved from NYC to Miami after they retired. I wonder if they voted and if so for whom. They seemed so old and out of it. Very odd to realize they were about the same age as my older brothers are now.

7: the default meaning of "Phoenix" is "an hour outside Phoenix on a golf course." If you actually mean to describe something more city-central, additional specification is required.

9: that's been happening in Arizona my whole life. The winter visitors are called snowbirds and one is expected to complain about their driving.

Midwesterners retire to Arizona but Californians relocate there, which sort of explains its purple status. We only just went to Phoenix (actual urban Phoenix) to meet my dad for Father's Day and take Elke to a WNBA game. It turned out to be Pride day at the stadium (sponsored by Hornitos tequila) and I was honestly floored by all the flags and lesbian couples and Protect Trans Kids shirts and so on; I've never seen that much gay in one place in Arizona. A lot's changed in a hurry.

Hornitos. Ask for it by name.

It's a step up from Footfetish gin.

33: Be sure to sprinkle "white" in those sentences, as appropriate.

35: well, now I feel self-conscious about explaining Cubans in Miami to you! Sorry about that. You should really try the coffee sometime, it's incredible.

I need someone to explain to me why so many Cubans have an obviously Italian name like Batista.

Also, how can Dave Bautista go into a movie and do such a good job that I didn't realize he was a wrestlers?

Maybe he was just one wrestler.

Because 'wrestling' is a performance art. Think of it as a soap opera star moving up in the world.

He was so believable as a great detective.