Is she excited about driving or reluctant? I was suprised to learn that nowadays it's common for kids to not want to learn to drive. But maybe my intel about the younger generation is dated. Also maybe it's different in Texas.
I get that this doesn't work for everyone, but I find that when I'm a passenger and my son is driving, repeating the Hail Mary continously helps. But only if he can't hear it.
Anyway, we got the permit easily with no appointment or hassle beyond needing to remember to get the doctor to sign a form. He does not really want to drive but he also wants to go to college in a small town.
Shouting "For fucks sake why are you accelerating into a turn" is of mixed effectiveness.
She is mixed on driving. But honestly, so was I. I wasn't particularly tantalized by the siren call of freedom, and never enjoyed or was exposed to any sort of kid-driving (bumper cars, people who let their kids drive out on the family farm, ATVs, jet skis, etc.)
Jammies and I are moving the process along, mostly because we have way more time to do this during the summer than during the school year, and also because it will make our life easier if we have a 3rd driver. She is not opposed, but not driving the process either.
When I was 16, I drove my siblings and cousins and one random guy from Alaska across Dallas to Six Flags in a full-size van. One cousin was older and local, but would not drive a van. The random guy successfully chatted up a woman working one of the rides and left with her when her shift ended.
I don't know if he was unwilling to drive or if he wasn't trusted by the adults since he was a random guy.
But he was a legal adult, as was my older cousin.
I had a point before I distracted myself. My point was that by 16, I was an experienced driver and could drive in a city even though I lived in a town with only one stoplight and no freeways.
From teaching the boy to drive: the first thing you must do is take the Geeblet to a large empty car park or disused airport runway or huge salt flat or similar and get her (her, right? Sorry, lost track of which is the oldest) comfortable with moving off from a halt without pogoing or stalling, and then coming to a halt without stalling, and then moving off again.
Doesn't have to be at any great speed, but just get her to do that over and over and over again before you put her on the road. Because if she stalls or pogoes on the road, she'll lose confidence and start to panic, and then she'll make mistakes or at best she won't learn anything further.
Once she's got that cracked, the rest is easy...
11 is what my dad did when I learned to drive
I definitely didn't wait that long for my first learner's permit at 15 in your region, or my driver's license at 16. But that's long enough ago to be barely relevant.
I just renewed my license here in the Baria for another 5 years and appointment wait was only a few weeks, though it might have been longer if I hadn't chosen their office in a particularly sketchy area.
ITIHMHB I got my DL with the highly permissive Texas process in my youth (no test by a public official, just a certificate of completion from a private driving school) and have full faith & credited my way to a license everywhere I've lived since. Just eye tests since then.
In Texas, of course, it's the DPS that issues people with licenses and the DMV that registers cars.
Based on OP, rural Texas is (yet again) even shittier than the third-world shithole where I learned to drive.
I've only taken a road test twice in my life. It would have been once, but I failed the first. I don't know if I've had to retake the written test ever after passing that on the first try.
11: Sounds like instructions for manual transmission, which I doubt is what the Geeblet is starting with.
Slightly more advanced task that I still remember from my dad teaching me was maneuvering the car from one parking place to another (empty lot required). That is, pull into a parking space, then back out of your space and into one on the opposite row two or three spaces down. Practice a bunch so that you get used to maneuvering the car into and out of confined spaces. This as a prelude to parallel parking.
Best practice I know for parallel parking is several months in a European city. This may not be the most practical approach.
I can parallel park in a tight space. I just chose to park further away and walk for reasons
I was recently at a funeral where the son of the deceased stood up and told the assembled mourners about how, when he was 13 years old, he went with his dad to a tennis match an hour away, and his dad got so wasted that his son had to figure out how to drive home. So that's one way to teach your kids.
They did make it safely home. The story took place 40 years ago.
Second 16.1. There's no pogo-ing with automatic transmissions.
I think the big empty parking lot is good, but even better is dirt roads without any cars on them (local natural heritage preserve has miles of sandy dirt roads near me). Go as slow as you like, get a feel for handling the car, keeping it in the middle of the lane, and taking corners. I know someone who got in an accident in a big empty parking lot while learning to drive (it was not actually completely empty!).
For both my kids, a nerve-racking (wracking?) thing was their lack of ability to keep the car centered in the lane. They'd put their eyes in the middle of the lane, meaning I as passenger was darn near the shoulder. Whooeee missed that mailbox by 6" there! Took way longer than expected to get the feel for where the car was. So again, woods roads without mailboxes or other cars are great. Low pressure place to learn to brake smoothly etc., and less boring than a parking lot.
Seems like one parent or the other is usually better at teaching driving/avoiding showing fear.
I worked the drive thru at a Mcdonald once and a girl about that age (I was friends with her older sister) was driving her dad home and stopping for food to sober him up. This was a shorter distance and she was taught how to drive before.
Sounds like instructions for manual transmission, which I doubt is what the Geeblet is starting with.
D'oh. Yes, of course. And I should have thought of that given that today was my first experience in an EV. (Unsettlingly quiet, cheeringly torque-y, had to stop and poke at the touchscreen for like five minutes before I found the odometer.)
"Took way longer than expected to get the feel for where the car was. So again, woods roads without mailboxes or other cars are great. Low pressure place to learn to brake smoothly etc., and less boring than a parking lot."
This is really good advice. Learning the feel of how wide the car is (and how long). Doug's parking practice is probably a good way to do this. It is not natural to be off-centre in a vehicle if you're used to bikes, flight simulators etc!
Seems like one parent or the other is usually better at teaching driving/avoiding showing fear.
Yes. Me. The last experience of the three of us in the car with the boy driving, the Selkie was in the back seat making a noise like a puppy in a blender, and I was in the front seat being (witnesses say) preternaturally calm and measured. (Inside, I was also a puppy in a blender, but apparently I hid it very well).
It is not natural to be off-centre in a vehicle if you're used to bikes, flight simulators etc!
Warthogs though
Learning the feel of how wide the car is (and how long).
Essentially, learning to adapt your proprioception to the car body.
Atossa isn't eager to learn to drive, but (a) she's technically only eight so that doesn't mean much, and (b) I figure it's a city thing. She hears me complain and get frustrated about rush hour traffic too much, and as long as we live in our current house, a bus pass and/or a bike would provide her more freedom anyway.
I think I was eager to learn to drive, just for the freedom. My driving record was bad enough as a teen that I probably should have been more nervous. No actual drunk driving, but too many preventable accidents.
I think the big empty parking lot is good, but even better is dirt roads without any cars on them (local natural heritage preserve has miles of sandy dirt roads near me).
Not the dirt roads I grew up on, that's for sure. Maybe in the hypothetical case where we're certain there are no cars on them at all, but visibility peaks at something like 200 yards, and when one suddenly appears, the road is narrow and the ditch on the side is steep.
25: yeah, exactly.
24: but do the kids play Halo these days? Isn't it all Pokemon and Fortnite and other nonsense?
In Texas, of course, it's the DPS that issues people with licenses and the DMV that registers cars.
ha, I was wondering if you or someone would point this out. I went with DMV just to not be unnecessarily complicated in the OP.
Pokémon is still going strong, I think. It iterates enough to keep ensnaring the new generations.
Halo, but plenty in the same niche. After Overwatch and Fortnite came Apex Legends, Valorant, etc.
30: Halo *is passe, but...
29: Yeah, it wouldn't be particularly comprehensible if you said DPS.
Our teens are theoretically interested in learning to drive but haven't shown any particular initiative in actually doing it. They get around fine on the bus so it isn't a huge burden logistically and I'm actually fine with waiting since teen driving is so dangerous.
Speaking of Texas, no more Kinky Friedman.
It does seem like an overall trend that teens are driving less. In 1995, 64% of those 19 or younger had DLs. (65 / 62.7.) In 2022, 49%.
Urbanist answer: Young people more & more see driving as a tedious necessity the adult world forces them into: as such, it is no longer cool.
Consumerist answer: Cars are too damn expensive.
(Also it was 39% in 2021? I guessed that would be the pandemic delaying licensing decisions but then I went further back & saw it was 35% in 2019. Not sure what's going on here. I want to compile a full line graph.)
34: What about the kids don't care about driving because they don't want to go anywhere they just want to stare at their phones all day answer? I'm pretty sure I didn't just make that up.
OK, I got population by single year of age 2010-2022 and the 2019 and 2021 percentages may have had the wrong denominators. I'm not sure if they put all 15-year-olds in the denominator for the tiny fraction of those that had DLs. (Though that was also a tiny fraction of 15-year-olds in 1995.)
Limiting to 16-to-19s, I have the percentage bouncing within 50-52% over 2010-2019, then 48.1%, 48.8%, 48.7% in 2022.
Car insurance is supposed to a big problem for younger drivers. It's gotten more expensive for everyone I think, but young people get the worst rates.
#34, 35: Also it depends on how much the car is a lesson in responsibility. If the teen has to pay for gas or insurance, then many swiftly figure out that they're going to spend their free time working instead of enjoying summers off. (Though perhaps as many don't actually learn the lesson in responsibility, and the parent has to decide how much to subsidize the car - especially given countervailing commitments to clubs, sports, etc.)
38: Not sure what change over time this theory would imply. Are you suggesting parents used to be more likely to pay for their kids' driving expenses?
Another theory -- back when I was a kid there were drivers ed courses in high school. That's not generally true anymore, right?
I assume that the decrease in teen driving correlated with and was caused by an increase in urbanization, but haven't bothered doing any research to test that theory.
35 that doesn't seem to keep a large portion of the drivers in Arrakis from driving.
42: Are you saying that they are staring at their phone while they are driving? If so, same here in the Heart of the Heart of It All.
Based on her performance in American Truck Simulator, my 11-year-old should never be allowed on the road.
38: Oh, I suspect that the percentage of people helping with kid's car expenses in relatively constant or slightly increased today (given the greater cost of cars, insurance, etc. today)
I was mostly aligning with 34 - that in an urban environment or an expensive one like paying for your own insurance or gas, a car is about how you get to work, not freedom and the open road.
What about the kids don't care about driving because they don't want to go anywhere they just want to stare at their phones all day answer? I'm pretty sure I didn't just make that up.
But also, fewer unstructured hangs where one person is kinda just coexisting at someone else's house in order to have some company, because now you can aimlessly text someone more easily. Kids without transportation aren't as isolated from their friends.
No driver's ed in schools here. I have a pet theory that the complexity of the process is kind of the turbo-tax-ification of the private companies, in that it's in their best interests to make it a mess to navigate. We're using Aceable, because we're beholden to the system we shake our fists at.
But also, fewer unstructured hangs where one person is kinda just coexisting at someone else's house in order to have some company, because now you can aimlessly text someone more easily. Kids without transportation aren't as isolated from their friends.
Yeah, I think this is a big part of it. (Also multiplayer videogames etc.) There just isn't the same need for physical proximity to enable social interaction.
People have been getting worse. There's more wisdom to staying home now.
I thought I was going to have to go to the DMV to renew my driver's license on my birthday(the day it expired), but when I went to the website the night before to find out what I needed to bring, I found out I could renew my license online!
I could hardly believe it.
Amazing, but not what we are looking for.
There just isn't the same need for physical proximity to enable social interaction.
Will this lack of physical proximity lead to the extinction of the human species? Experts offer differing opinions.
Certainly most dairy cattle these days never get laid and are from cows that never had sex with a bull.
It's even easier with people because bulls don't have hands.
And because they can't see color, you can't use pornography.
I was talking to a friend from college who lives in Cincinnati. She loves that her older son (17?) can drive, because she can send him to pick up his brother. He doesn't have his own car though.
Boarding School is like one giant hang-out session then with no need for cars but everyone wanted to learn. We had driver's ed, and the instructors would teach you, but you couldn't practice as often as people who lived at home.
That's not a very old son. I've got one older.
In New Hampshire you don't have to get a learners permit. Anyone over age 15.5 can drive as long as there is someone over 25 with a license in the vehicle.
This state does not care for bureaucratic procedures, I'll give it that.
I don't know what learners permits do better than the New Hampshire system. I guess make sure you can see well enough? And maybe prevent someone from just not getting a license.
In our experience its been great. It takes one of the stressful points out of a stressful process.
My kid is now 18 and still not licensed, tho. He just doesn't like to drive.
To get a learner's permit you have to pass a written exam, right? So in theory you know the rules of the road?
I figure that driving, like flying, was ahead of the curve in enshittification and teens figured that out. In the 70s it was the open road. Now, anywhere in my county, at any hour of the day or night, there are cars on the road, lots of them. At 4 am! Annoying. I was in a north Georgia mountain county last weekend and it was a wonder to have paved roads with essentially no cars on them. Not much of that left near us. Which is different from urbanization, because my county is sprawl with little urbanization, 100% dependent on cars as transport. But there is no fun in driving.
Both kids drive, though, and drive stick (thank you for donating the Mazda 3, inlaws).
No pogoing with an automatic, but it's still good practice to learn a lot in an empty lot. Basics, plus you can do drills like learning where the wheels are (run over this pie plate) or back up until you are a foot from this line or back up in a straightline.
50: car insurance is also very expensive, and so are used cars, and there's nowhere to go to hang out. Friends are online.
I thought a number of states put more restrictions on when 16- and 17-year-olds can drive over the past couple of decades or so. Wouldn't that reduce the number of teens with licenses if there seemed to be less reason to get one at 16? I guess it could also mean more teens getting a license as soon as they're 18.
Driving in Addison County was fun. Farmland and gently rolling hills. I'm not sure how much of the fum was objectively because of the landscape and how much was because I was in my 20s, though. Anyone else familiar with Vermont want to chime in on this deep cut?
Driving in Windsor County where I grew up wasn't fun, though. The hills were too jagged and sharp. And driving in the DC area sucks.
69
Basics, plus you can do drills like learning where the wheels are (run over this pie plate) or back up until you are a foot from this line or back up in a straightline.
Good ideas thanks, I'll try to remember them for the next 7 years, because I'm pretty sure the kid's school won't have Driver's Ed like mine did.
Driving in Addison County was fun. Farmland and gently rolling hills. I'm not sure how much of the fum was objectively because of the landscape and how much was because I was in my 20s, though. Anyone else familiar with Vermont want to chime in on this deep cut?
Driving in Windsor County where I grew up wasn't fun, though. The hills were too jagged and sharp. And driving in the DC area sucks.
69
Basics, plus you can do drills like learning where the wheels are (run over this pie plate) or back up until you are a foot from this line or back up in a straightline.
Good ideas thanks, I'll try to remember them for the next 7 years, because I'm pretty sure the kid's school won't have Driver's Ed like mine did.
I've long wanted to get a couple of laser pointers or similar and mount them to a car so that you could project forward onto the road the actual location of the sides. I don't know if it would be useful as a learning tool, even if it worked, or if someone who used those would find themselves dependent on them.
This fall Mr. 12 gets a steeply discounted transit pass from his school system - $30/month for unlimited use. I don't know if older kids here in the urban hellhole tend to learn to drive or not, but it's certainly not strictly necessary.
Do kids look younger now than they used to as well? I looked at a slide show of my high school class and the pictures of kids today from the alumni magazine, and I feel like we looked a bit older then - or at least some of us did, I also looked at the kids who graduated in 1983 and they definitely looked more grown up than today's kids or maybe even my generation. Now in the 70's the teenagers were allowed to smoke on campus, and that was just a completely different world.
72: Driving in Addison County was fun.
Agree that the landscape (particularly the western 2/3rds) and relative lack of traffic make it a very pleasant place to drive. sort of the platonic ideal of bucolicity.
Although driving through it in a cloudburst on a poorly drained road a week or so ago was pretty anti-fun.Briefly hydroplaned at one point.
Advice:
Let her take a long time (if she wants) practicing in empty lots/on campus on the weekend/in low-traffic neighborhoods. My parents pushed me on to the next thing really fast, before I felt confident at any step of the way. I had no prior experience, even driving in video games, and absolutely none of it came naturally to me. (I'm a pretty lousy driver as an adult. Mercifully, my driving records does not accurately reflect this.)
Second, with new drivers, the worst thing about sitting in the car for me is not knowing whether they're going to time something right, like starting to brake for a stop sign. It always feels like they're going to do everything later than I think they should. (The problem here is my inability to read their mind, not that they are objectively late!) The more chill parent should be the one to do the vast majority of the early lessons until the kid can reliably start/brake/navigate decently.
Empty lots, yes. Also, spend more time than you think is necessary on pulling into and backing out of parking spaces. That seems to be one of the last things to come naturally.
I once drove a car with no working reverse gear for a few months. You don't need to backup as often as you think you do if you plan ahead.
If you live in a state that requires car inspections, you probably do need a working reverse.