Re: Guest Post -- It Would Be Irresponsible Not To Speculate

1

I want someone to write the music from Spy Hunter on old time paper and pass it off as some famous composer's work.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 7:47 AM
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2

Ideally, they first sell the manuscript to the living Koch brother.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 7:49 AM
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3

Gaddis' The Recognitions is pretty good on this. Orson Welles' F is for Fake I also like quite a bit.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 8:10 AM
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4

Is there much money to be made in forging a Mozart? Comparing that with the obvious cashing in opportuniity from forging a Rembrandt.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 8:17 AM
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5

Rip-off artists all. Take it from one who knows.


Posted by: Pierre Menard | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 8:21 AM
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Is there much money to be made in forging a Mozart? Comparing that with the obvious cashing in opportuniity from forging a Rembrandt.

It's a good point. The point about finding/faking a Rembrandt is that you now own a Rembrandt. But the point about finding/faking a Mozart manuscript is mainly that you can publish it and people can perform it and record it. There aren't galleries full of Mozart holograph scores. And you won't own the copyright to it - you'll only own copyright to whatever edition you publish, but someone else is at liberty to publish another edition. It'd be more like forging a new Jane Austen novel - if it's real then by definition it's public-domain.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 8:23 AM
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7

3 seconding the Welles, it's great


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 8:25 AM
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8

6 you Wu-Tang Clan it, Once Upon a Time in Shaolin style.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 8:28 AM
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9

My favorite forgery method is to not just forge the painting but also a purported contemporaneous letter describing the forgery to slip into the archives for some unwitting art appraiser to find.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 8:52 AM
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10

9: Probably best not to confess these things even with a pseud.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 9:39 AM
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11

Has Thomas James Wise (subject of a biography out this year) come up here? Such perfidy, it's great.


Posted by: lourdes kayak | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 9:56 AM
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12

This was pretty wild too https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/01/books/booksupdate/rare-books-pushkin-disappearance.html


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 10:02 AM
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13

The asshole who runs the used bookstore by campus was stealing rare books from the public library, so I won't go there.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 10:45 AM
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14

11 and 12 are both fascinating.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 11:03 AM
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15

To the OP, is there any actual evidence that this Mozart piece is a forgery, or is it just the suspicious timing?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 11:03 AM
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16

What's wrong with the timing?


Posted by: Opinionated Antonio Salieri | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 11:09 AM
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17

LLMs are not all that great at producing music, but it occurs to me that a mini Mozart variation might be an exception.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 11:16 AM
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18

11 is a great read.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 12:11 PM
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19

The Gospel of Jesus's Wife thing was another interesting recent forgery.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: “Pause endless, then go in” (9) | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 12:42 PM
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20

I thought that was just a movie.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 3:21 PM
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21

I read the Dan Brown version.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 3:25 PM
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22

I did too.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 3:59 PM
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23

I did not see the movie of that book or the fancier movie I was thinking of when I wrote 20.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-25-24 4:03 PM
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24

Vermeer or Van Meegeren?

https://www.purposegames.com/game/vermeer-or-vermeegeren-quiz


Posted by: Charlie W | Link to this comment | 09-26-24 12:38 PM
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My favorite forgery method is to not just forge the painting but also a purported contemporaneous letter describing the forgery to slip into the archives for some unwitting art appraiser to find.

The Baron of Arizona is a fun movie if you're into forgeries of records to insert into archives.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09-26-24 12:54 PM
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26

And you won't own the copyright to it - you'll only own copyright to whatever edition you publish, but someone else is at liberty to publish another edition. It'd be more like forging a new Jane Austen novel - if it's real then by definition it's public-domain.

I'm pretty sure, under current copyright law, unpublished manuscripts remain under copyright, and it doesn't expire within N years of the death of the creator, unlike published works. However, there's a 2039 expiry for any copyright on unpublished works from before 1989. So, you could, potentially have copyright in it but only if you had some legitimate claim, like you were an heir of Jane Austen.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-26-24 1:29 PM
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27

Looks like I messed up the italics. The second paragraph is me. I used to sit on the access and reuse committee of the naieldoB, so I'm _quite_ sure as we had to address it fairly regularly.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-26-24 1:30 PM
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28

The US also has different terms for published vs unpublished. I used to spend a lot of time looking at this chart* when putting things online. But in the US, I think anything Jane Austen wrote would have cleared copyright by now unless a treaty obligation prevents that from happening. Or there could be some renewal provision.

Berkeley, which owns copyright to the Mark Twain papers, published some things in order to get the copyright into a different category that would extend a few more decades. IIRC, the unpublished copyright would have expired on some things Twain never lived to publish, but after Berkeley published them, the published copyright term took over.

*An earlier version of it, looks like it's been updated with even more details on "special cases".


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09-26-24 1:45 PM
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29

26 is really interesting! Thanks


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 09-27-24 5:53 AM
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