Re: PredictShit

1

Trump, of course.


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 2:15 PM
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2

Trump Jr.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: “Pause endlessly, then go in” (9) | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 2:20 PM
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3

Trump Jr is options 1&3 so is the best bet for your money.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 2:21 PM
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4

The loophole in the 22nd amendment is that he can run for VP and then the elected president can step down?


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: “Pause endlessly, then go in” (9) | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 2:31 PM
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5

Or be appointed Speaker (don't have to be a member of the House to be Speaker so don't have to win any election aside from majority of House members) and then Pres/VP step down.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 2:34 PM
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6

I think Sr. Will probably be dead or senile by then, which is why I said Jr., but the Putin-esque scenario of a patsy with Trump as VP is pretty plausible. The speaker thing wouldn't happen, the whole point is the ticket with him on it will win the primary.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: “Pause endlessly, then go in” (9) | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 2:39 PM
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7

It's hard to conceive of anything besides a 3rd Trump term or the party in tatters.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 2:45 PM
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8

Thank god he's old and decrepit. Imagine if he'd hijacked this dumb fucking country at age 60.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 2:46 PM
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9

You made me think about this for 30 seconds.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 3:19 PM
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10

Can't we at least spend a month or two just dreading a Trump Presidency without also dreading another election?


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 3:26 PM
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11

8: this dumb fucking country

I've been trying to stifle my rage as I intellectually appreciate that it is unhelpful at best, and probably harmful, at multiple levels.

And yet it remains very, very, very unstifled.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 3:33 PM
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12

Trump vote % has crept below 50%. margin at 1.7%, somewhat less than HRC's PV margin.

My daughter rightly called out the patheticness of my pointing that out to her. Rightly so, but I need a bigger audience than my own flesh and blood for the humiliation to really stick.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 4:04 PM
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13

JPS, I genuinely appreciate you beating this [choose one: drum; dead horse] so much. I value the knowledge and I agree with you that it's worth remembering.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 4:10 PM
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14

I just get tired of people talking about "his resounding margin" and the like.

As of now, he wins MI/PA/WI by ~230K, lost them by ~250K* in 2020. With ~17.6M votes this represents about 1 in 75 voters changing over (in actuality more complex patterns of vote changing, new voters etc. but that is what it nets out to.)

But as usual the wonder is not that the horse talks well, but that it talks at all.

*When I first posted that a week or so back I made a math error and had 100K more in 2020.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 4:24 PM
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15

I don't think even a Culture Mind could answer the OP. Way too much complex interdependence with the random firing of the neurons of maniacs.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 4:42 PM
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16

Trump will probably be incapacitated before the end of this term. He declined obviously over the past year and that ball only picks up speed once it starts rolling. I don't think Vance has the charisma to win the nomination, even as an incumbent. Maybe Trump Jr can pick up the mantle, but among the current politicos I'd expect Tom Cotton and Josh Hawley to be contenders. However, given the current trajectory of this dumb fucking country, there are likely multiple billionaire "outsider" campaigns being plotted this very moment.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 4:54 PM
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17

Sadly, I'm going to bet on Vance.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 5:11 PM
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18

If Vance becomes President before the next election, then probably him I guess. But he'll be very uphill.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 5:12 PM
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19

I think he'll appeal to the MAGA base; and that's a powerful starting point.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 5:16 PM
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20

14 is total for all three states?


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 5:30 PM
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21

Yes. Dem margins (and 2024 votes essentially all in in those states*)
WI -30K
MI -80K
PA -122K

2020
WI +20K
MI +155K
PA +80K

And for agonies sake 2015:
WI - 24K
MI -11K
PA -44K

*In senate Casey closed to 17K but is going to fall short.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 6:59 PM
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22

2016


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 7:00 PM
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23

2016


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 7:00 PM
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24

Realizing I should have added

7) Run? Election?

for the pessimists.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 7:26 PM
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25

8) 2028?

For the *real* pessimists.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 7:52 PM
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26

9) Putin himself, on a ticket with Netanyahu
10) Gemini, on a ticket with Claude (unless chatGPT gets a more normal sounding name)


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 11-18-24 8:11 PM
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27

The loophole in the 22nd amendment is that he can run for VP and then the elected president can step down?

12th amendment. "But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States." Trump cannot be elected VP in 2028 because he won't be eligible to be President. And there's no way to leapfrog the VP if the President resigns: 25th Amendment "In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President."

"Ah, but what happens if there isn't a VP? Could they name Trump as Speaker? Then he'd be next in line."

The Presidential Succession Act of 1947 says that the Speaker of the House becomes acting president if there is no president or VP for whatever reason, but only if the Speaker is himself constitutionally eligible to become president. If he's not, then the President pro tem becomes acting president.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 3:52 AM
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28

At least no one here is saying it'll be Musk.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 4:00 AM
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29

If Vance is still vice-president, then presumably he gets Trump's backing for the candidacy, which will assure him the nomination.

If Vance isn't still VP, and it's because Trump is dead (there is no way that he will resign, be impeached, or be removed for incapacity, under any circumstances) and Vance has succeeded, I think Vance gets the nomination - it would be very unusual for a sitting president to be successfully primaried.

But there's a third option: Vance doesn't make it to 2028 as VP. Trump has some sort of falling out with him (and this is quite likely because that's what he did with his last VP and almost his entire last cabinet) and demands his resignation, and Vance obediently resigns. In which case he'll need a new VP, who will, vide supra, be the obvious 2028 candidate.

Who will that be? Trump Jr, I think.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 4:10 AM
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30

What's the betting on a "Repeal the 22nd Amendment" campaign, I wonder?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 4:11 AM
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31

You're not thinking like a results-oriented FedSoc judge.

22nd: No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.

It only talks about being elected to President (extended by logic of 12 to being elected VP). But if one should be appointed to the office of VP by Congress should the office be vacant? That's not being elected so 22nd doesn't apply, QED.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 4:13 AM
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32

Reagan in fact had a brief campaign against the 22nd towards the end of his second term. I remember my parents being pissed about it.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 4:14 AM
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33

https://www.nytimes.com/1987/11/29/us/reagan-wants-end-of-two-term-limit.html


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 4:18 AM
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34

Trump Jr. - or Ivanka. First woman president! I really think I need to read some Tacitus. Why is Pennsylvania that the margin is so much worse than in 2015?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 4:59 AM
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35

It only talks about being elected to President (extended by logic of 12 to being elected VP). But if one should be appointed to the office of VP by Congress should the office be vacant? That's not being elected so 22nd doesn't apply, QED.

I don't think that's right: if you are ineligible to be president you can't become VP, not by election, not by appointment, not in any other way. 12th amendment. "But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States."


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 5:16 AM
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36

34: The main function of Trump's chosen successor will be to protect Trump (and maybe his clan) after he stops being president - classic Latin American succession situation, in fact. In LatAm it'd be the wife's job but Melania isn't eligible and her loyalty is doubtful anyway. So, a child, or a pliable subordinate with no will of his own whose loyalty is beyond question. If Vance makes it four years as VP then he will be the latter almost by definition, but then again Trump probably thought Pence was the latter and then he turned on him.
Ivanka would probably be more capable due to a lack of drug habit, but she does have the downside of being a chick. Then again, that might actually be a plus because it will make it very obvious that Trump is still pulling the strings, because everyone will know that a chick can't really be in charge of everything, she's obviously just a mouthpiece with good hair like Hope Hicks. People might think Jr is actually in charge and let him decide stuff without checking with Trump first.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 5:21 AM
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37

If you keep it in the family, you could work on getting the 22nd repealed over time.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 5:21 AM
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38

32: good for him. It's a bad idea and should never have been implemented.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 5:22 AM
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39

It would allow 2028 to be the election that everyone on both sides, including the candidates, wants to see: Trump vs Obama.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 5:23 AM
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40

Marjorie Taylor Greene is my bet--she has his authentic crazy and a certain deranged charisma of her own. Plus she's made surprising inroads with the establishment.


Posted by: Sam T Boyd | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 6:55 AM
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41

Marjorie Taylor Greene is my bet--she has his authentic crazy and a certain deranged charisma of her own. Plus she's made surprising inroads with the establishment.


Posted by: Sam T Boyd | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 6:55 AM
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42

Marjorie Taylor Greene is my bet--she has his authentic crazy and a certain deranged charisma of her own. Plus she's made surprising inroads with the establishment.


Posted by: Sam T Boyd | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 6:55 AM
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43

I still don't think Vance will be obedient to Trump. I think he's smart and ambitious and dislikes Trump. He'd go for the king if he thinks he can pull it off.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 7:20 AM
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44

34: Why is Pennsylvania that the margin is so much worse than in 2015? (2016).

Recall that these are raw number changes in close elections in a pool of 7 million voters. So the 2016 to 2024 margin shift in PA was only about 2.5%. Actually somewhat less than the national 3.8% national shift 2016 ->2024.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 8:01 AM
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45

I know this is ridiculous but so is reality: is the 22nd Amendment "self-executing"? If he just ran and states tried to keep him off the ballot would it turn out, whoops, there's no rule a dog can't play basketball and the Constitution doesn't authorize states to count presidential terms?(Maybe Article 2 is the same way and states aren't authorized to check ID?)


Posted by: Yawnoc | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 8:08 AM
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46

The 22nd amendment doesn't say you're "constitutionally ineligible to the office of President," it'd be ridiculous to say that the sitting president is constitutionally ineligible to the office. It merely says that you can't be *elected* president, which is totally different.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 8:37 AM
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47

44: Yeah, I don't really buy most of the criticisms of the campaign, because in the states where Harris campaigned the hardest she did clearly better relative to the rest of the country (largely because of better turnout, I think?).


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 8:39 AM
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48

46: ooh, interesting point. Sorry, I didn't get that initially. So you're arguing that 12A says "no one ineligible to be president can be vice-president", but the only constitutional limits on being president are the ones elsewhere about being 35, being born in the US, and so forth. 22A is simply a constitutional limit on who can be elected president.

So if you are otherwise eligible but have served two terms, and you can work out a way of becoming president that doesn't involve being elected, 22A permits it.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 8:50 AM
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49

Honestly can't see a good reason to have term limits. If a majority of the people want a third term of Reagan - or Obama, or even god forbid Trump - why shouldn't they get it? It's not like it's an uninformed decision by that point, they've seen the guy do the job for eight years already!


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 8:54 AM
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50

Watching term limits play out in local government is changing my mind. Here you just have to sit out for one cycle, and then you can jump back in.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 8:57 AM
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51

In ways I don't have time to expound upon until after I teach.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 8:57 AM
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52

Right, 46 is exactly what I'm getting at. Now mind you that's not how I personally would interpret the combination of the 12th and 22nd, but I think it's a totally plausible reading and much simpler and more straightforward than lots of other nonsense the Federalist Society comes up with.

(I agree with 49. In a perfect world we would have repealed both the 22nd amendment and the ban on naturalized citizens becoming president, and got the Schwarzenegger/Obama 2016 election that everyone wanted. It's a great tragedy that we got Trump instead of Schwarzenegger, when the latter is better and more popular, while still having most of the same appeal.)


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 9:07 AM
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53

(er, 48, not 46.)


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 9:07 AM
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54

In a perfect world we would have repealed both the 22nd amendment and the ban on naturalized citizens becoming president, and got the Schwarzenegger/Obama 2016 election that everyone wanted.

The ban on naturalised citizens being president is an odd one. They can still be in Congress, or sit on the Supreme Court - and it's not like being natural-born means you can't be subject to foreign influence.

(I still maintain that the requirement to be a natural-born citizen is a reference to birth by Caesarian section. Talk radio hosts should have been ranting about how Obama was from his mother's womb untimely rent.)


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 9:15 AM
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55

It maybe made more sense back in the early days of the Republic, when getting absorbed into another country was a very real possibility, certainly doesn't make much sense now.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 9:30 AM
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56

It is only slightly newer than the ban on Catholics becoming King, which is still in force, so it's not like we are doing much better over here.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-19-24 9:37 AM
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