The UN* recommends 1 cop/33 people.* [citation needed] We have [more/less] than 33. Hence, we need [more/less] cops.
*Maybe you want the FBI's opinion instead.
**I think. Don't remember actual number.
1 cop per 33 people?!? So we should scale our PD by a factor of 64?
It appears the idea of a UN recommendation is a mistaken but leggy factoid.
This UN document says the UN-"suggested" ratio is 2.2 per 1,000 inhabitants, but cites no source.
Obviously 5.link is technically source on its own. But a lotta people write under UN auspices.
So I'm sure the PD feels very lean and understaffed to those inside it, except that I think it also has a culture of power-hungry jerks.
That's a lot of people to watch one resident.
Cop/population ratio is one important factor here but another, probably more important, is $/cop. That's probably even harder to find benchmarks for, though.
Pittsburgh has .0027 police officers per resident. Or would, if they could recruit more people.
They don't get paid very much, but I don't think they do very much. The only speeding enforcement left in the city is me driving at no more than five mph over the limit to demonstrate that I'm secure enough that no one can make me rush or worry about damage from a minor collision.
Are there target percents for anything budget-related for cities? If our goal was "at least cops should feels equally squeezed as Parks and Rec does" or whatever, how do you quantify that?
Presumably Parks and Rec has a list of needed capital improvements, with a list of the ones they managed to get through each year. You could take a percentage and see how it compares to cop call responses, or cases managed, or rape kits processed or some metric of cop work.
Sacramento's water department has a list like that: needed work and how much they worked through that year.
The "needed work" list is infinite, of course.
I just took a look at our approved 2025 budget and the Police Department is 22.5% of general fund spending. It's the largest single line item, though the Fire Department is only slightly less. No idea how representative that is but there's one data point.
The National League of Cities might be the place to look for things like benchmarks.
You guys are probably a high fire risk because of all the home fireplaces and wood stoves.
19: We are, although the maritime climate tamps down the risk a bit.
My city budgeted 5% to Police in FY24. 13% to Public Safety overall, which, in addition to Police, includes Fire, Animal Control, 911, Emergency Management, and Parking.
I don't know that our cities are particularly comparable, but maybe look up comparisons for other cities you do see as similar?
This is the sort of thing where a progressive/liberal/leftish equivalent of ALEC (which has a city/county-level arm) would be tremendously helpful.
Anyone got a few tens of millions to spare so I could start one?
The related toolkit has some data and suggestions on policy changes.
I think it's hard to make judgments on police budgets without getting into the weeds of what the precinct actually does with the money. The worst precincts put everyone on traffic duty (because it's easy and raises revenue) rather than putting cops in harm's way and actually trying to solve crimes.
I think it's hard to make judgments on police budgets without getting into the weeds of what the precinct actually does with the money. The worst precincts put everyone on traffic duty (because it's easy and raises revenue) rather than putting cops in harm's way and actually trying to solve crimes.
I would love to solve crimes, at least some of them. But in terms of both dangers to the officers and benefits to public life expectancy, traffic duty is a big deal.
Are there target percents for anything budget-related for cities? If our goal was "at least cops should feels equally squeezed as Parks and Rec does" or whatever, how do you quantify that?
The trouble with picking a percentage of a city budget is that you are comparing apples and oranges across cities. Some city budgets include education, and for some cities education is handled by a different entity. In our city, a decent slice of our city's budget goes toward snow removal. Also our human services budget went through the roof last year to pay for homeless families to stay in hotels. Every city budget is different and weird.
You might be able to compare cities across Texas, but I don't think a Texas level of police spending is what you are looking to justify here.
Unless, for some reason, you are way above average - then you could argue to bring it down to average.
Maybe police spending per capita would be a better metric, although, even then, its tough to compare with different living costs in different places.
Yeah. It's going to be a mess either way.
I think the toolkit in 25 is actually likely to be pretty helpful for what heebie is trying to do.
School shooting in my hometown, three kids dead. The mental exhaustion at this point cannot be described. Second incident within a few miles of my family's current home city this year, which is exceedingly fucked up.
Thanks. I always figure I'm numb enough and then realize that, no, I'm still (and always) incredibly angry, every time.
The trouble with picking a percentage of a city budget is that you are comparing apples and oranges across cities.
Other fruit genus distinctions:
- The ratios and purposes of general fund vs. special dedicated funds - many cities put in the latter category a lot of stuff that the voters are more willing to vote yes on
- The overall level of local taxes
I saw a bullet point reading "Abundant Life has 420 Students" and my first thought was that they were going to blame weed.
My first thought was actually a bad joke about "Abundant Life," that's been happening all day.
I think if I had a therapist, she would tell me not to entertain those jokes. Assuming what she would say means I save the copay, which I can spend on alcohol.
Only semi OT: Texas health officials will not be conducting a review of maternal deaths related to birth or pregnancy in 2022-2023, the first years after abortion was banned.
Yeah, I think "percentage of general fund" is the wrong metric. The median police officers per person worldwide is about 3 per 1000 - enlightened Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Iceland all have about 1.8-2.0. Knifecrime metrics are 3.2 (Scotland) or 2.3 (England and Wales). France is 4.2, Germany is 3.5, the US is 2.4.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_number_of_police_officers
But you've got 0.67? And they're still costing 20% of the general fund?
Either the general fund is tiny or these policemen are doing very well for themselves.
42: or both. Police unions seem to be the only popular/successful unions in America. And salaries aside, the police budget probably includes more military weaponry in most American towns/cities than it does in Knifecrimea.
And also possibly they get their share of policing from higher levels? State police, federal agencies? That 0.67 will be just locals, but the figures for other countries includes everyone.
the police budget probably includes more military weaponry in most American towns/cities than it does in Knifecrimea.
The police budget probably includes more military weaponry in most American towns/cities than there is in Knifecrimea.
Yeah. It's going to be a mess either way.
I guess this is why I didn't retain the answer from the last time I posted about such things.
Our police department finds it very difficult to hire new cops. We keep adding on financial incentives to make it more enticing, but our police department is routinely short-staffed.
It would be nice if we could take some work of their hands by putting up speed cameras and red light cameras to do traffic enforcement, but that's not legal in this state.
Why is it Santa Claus? "Santa" is the female form. Like "Santa Maria". Shouldn't it be San Claus?
49: Given the uproar over black Santas, I suspect Latino Santa (an illegal immigrant??) would spark riots. And there's St. Nick, but (I'm sure you know this) Sinterklaas seems to have been anglicized as Santa.
I feel like my police dept must not have work. My car was tapped in the parking lot. I forgot to report it to the police. I realized that I should have because of the value. I thought it was just a scrape, but Tim realized that the quarter panel was damaged. Plus my car is made out of tin foil.
The cop drove out to my house and offered to drive to the parking lot to look four camera footage. Then some teenagers sped down my quiet road at 45mph, so he took off after them before coming back to finish writing it up for my insurance. The retired police commissioner lives on my street. We do have a speeding problem - adults on the way to the train in the morning and teenagers on nights and weekends.
The firefighters have good PR, because they drive through the neighborhood with a Santa Claus, visiting, kids, dogs and collecting toys. It warms even my cynical heart.
"and collecting toys"
They do that here. The fire truck rams the windows of the stores and the kids come and collect what they want.