Re: De-accessibility

1

My dad is in a wheelchair and goes to church and church is pretty much the only place he goes that doesn't have ramps. He'd like to join the choir but there's no elevator to the choir loft.


Posted by: Yawnoc | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 7:03 AM
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In my Father's house are many mansions. But no ramps. Fuck you, cripples.


Posted by: unChristian Jesus | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 7:14 AM
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1: all of the Episcopal churches try to be as accessible as possible. The function room where I had my wedding reception wasn't.

Some are more elegant than others. I preferred the 19th century church with a ramp that looped back on itself to the lift thing in my current church, because the ramp (which took a big fundraising campaign - pre ADA I think) never broke, but the mini elevator to go up 7 steps does.

|| Heebie - don't want to derail. I'm too stressed to send a separate e-mail. Can you put up a separate post about Wired's coverage of Social Security code? https://www.wired.com/story/doge-rebuild-social-security-administration-cobol-benefits/

It basically says that in order to update Social Security quickly, there needs to be some kind of generative AI used and this could break it. I'm terrified for my mother. I'd like to know what I should be asking my Congress critters to do, though.

Particularly, my House Rep.

|>


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 7:16 AM
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3: I'm actually mid-drive to a conference. Can get something up later this afternoon though.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 7:25 AM
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3: I'm actually mid-drive to a conference. Can get something up later this afternoon though.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 7:25 AM
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3: I'm actually mid-drive to a conference. Can get something up later this afternoon though.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 7:25 AM
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3: I'm actually mid-drive to a conference. Can get something up later this afternoon though.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 7:25 AM
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oh goddamnit. At least that provides verisimilitude.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 7:26 AM
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I'm impressed you went with "versimilitude" mid-drive.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 7:48 AM
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AS I recall this was one of Rush Limbaugh's early issues but am not finding specifics.

I recall him or someone else (maybe local Pittsburgh R talk show horror Jim Quinn) at the time who talked about vandalizing Braille signs.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 8:00 AM
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9: I'm in the back seat.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 8:08 AM
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The ADA is one of the earliest things I remember the right bitching about. We're basically doing a speed run through the 90s grievances.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 8:09 AM
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10.2 the level of depravity to do that astonishes.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 8:19 AM
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11: Still ...

I'm in the backseat (I'm in the backseat) I'm in the backseat (I'm in the backseat)
Everybody look at me
'Cause I'm riding in the backseat (in the backseat)
I'm in the backseat (I'm in the backseat) I'm in the backseat
Take a good hard look at the motherfucking backseat (backseat, yeah)
I'm in the backseat motherfucker take a look at me
Straight ridin' in the backseat on the open road
Busting 60 knots, bombing past the mesquite
You can't stop me motherfucker cause I'm in the backseat


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 8:25 AM
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13: Yeah, I recall myself thinking "what's it to you?" to you a lot.

On the evangelical front, I think the opposition was twofold
1) Not wanting government to ever be able to compel churches to do anything specific.
2) Provisions for HIV in the bill. I think this really added the emotional fire to their opposition.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 9:28 AM
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4: are you there yet?

5: are you there yet?

6: are you there yet?

7: are you there yet?


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 9:30 AM
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I don't think anyone is admitting it out loud yet, but I firmly believe that there's a remnant of a deep-seated belief that disability is a punishment for sin and disabled people should sit down and shut up. It's one thing for a church, or for religious people, to decide to be magnanimous and provide some charity/access if they feel like it. It's a different story when the disabled people start acting like we're entitled to anything except being locked in a back room to contemplate the shame of our conditions.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 9:41 AM
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17: I don't know how I would research it, but I feel like there was griping about the cost of that ramp, and it was in the late 80's before I was in high school. Maybe MA had its own legislation? Is there a good resource of research on state and local laws before the ADA?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 9:49 AM
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16: I swear, I'll turn this car around!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 9:51 AM
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State laws usually have their own records included (like, when you look up Montana laws the old laws are still listed along with whatever other sections replaced or overturned them). I think MA has pretty robust state disability laws- that might or might not apply to churches, and even the ADA (which does NOT apply to churches) only kicks in if you renovate and don't have a historic building and do have over some number of people & budget. So in reality churches and other local orgs almost never have to be accessible. Most of the laws only apply to schools, medical things, and big companies.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 11:32 AM
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heebie: I don't think I've come this way before.
passenger: It's the cobblestones, dear.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 2:41 PM
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It basically says that in order to update Social Security quickly, there needs to be some kind of generative AI used and this could break it.

This one is really making me bang my head against the desk. The code base of Social Security is rock-solid COBOL that has been battle-tested for decades. Aside from the ancient language, I don't really see a pressing need to update it. Still, if porting the old system into to Java was identified as a important priority for modernization, the way to do it without breaking things would be to set up and fund a five to ten year project to get it done, preferably with staff directly employed by the government who can be expected to take over maintenance in the long run.

Hooking the old code up to an LLM and accepting what comes out the other side is not the same as doing that, and will result in an error-ridden and unmaintainable pile of crap.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 03-28-25 6:15 PM
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22. Gets it, as they say, exactly right.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 03-29-25 12:06 PM
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17 is right. Jesus corrects people in the Bible who assume a guy is blind because of a sin. But apparently it didn't stick.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-29-25 3:18 PM
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24: the Bible is also full of stories of people who get variously afflicted by God as a punishment, or just for laughs. Nebuchadnezzar. Job.. Paul.


Posted by: Ajay | Link to this comment | 03-30-25 10:55 AM
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