You're implying...
a) You prefer big abs and biceps
or
b) You have a flabby tummy.
and/or
c) You watch gay porn.
Anyway, I'm not certain this is true, and in any case, you're attempting to stereotype. Different places have different gay scenes. F'rinstance, at the gay night club here you'll run into more of the skinny guys...one of my friends used a word for this type of body, but I can't remember it. But go to Oz in N.O., and you'll find abs, but also big biceps and chests. It's like a club of football players.
Yeah, you can't really make assumptions based on gay porn any more than you could on straight porn. I find hydraulic-lift breasts, fake nails, big bleached-out hair, and too much makeup extremely unappealing, for example. I don't think Ogged is watching much gay porn after all, or he'd have to account for all the various body type sub-genres like twinks, bears, etc.
From the ever-useful Urban Dictionary...
Twink - A term often used in homosexual circles to describe a man with a smooth, youthful, only slightly muscular physique.
Um, Ogged: Straight porn shows cocks, too. It has to, by definition, or it would just be either pin-ups or "lesbian" porn. Unless the much-critiqued "straight male gaze" is all it takes to make porn "straight" -- in which case, could a straight man (like Ogged apparently) watch gay porn and thereby "turn it straight"?
I guess basically I'm asking you to flesh out the theoretical underpinnings of this post. Thanks.
I'd like to ask ogged to "flesh" out the theoretical underpinnings of the idea that this post and discussion aren't gay as the Nineties. Jeebus. (Yeah, me too, I'm the one who quotes Smiths lyrics.)
Maybe Ogged didn't realize there were cocks in straight porn because he doesn't look at them, but around them. Or something.
I knew that would come back at me. But how can I be a facist if I'm so concerned about my chest?
That's a great reply to an accusation of facism. Too bad it wouldn't be useable outside of this context; this context being rather unlikely to repeat itself.
So now I'm the gay porn connoisseur. I've seen some gay porn clips (which, yes, I downloaded 'cuz I'm a curious boy), but mainly, I was basing this post on this extremely unsafe for work Google image search. You see what I mean about featuring the cocks, right? That's distinctive.
In any case, I defer to Labs in all things homo (where's mister low-hanging fruit now, eh?), so ignore me and take his word for it.
As for the title, Michael, I was implying something like (b): I don't have rippling abs--but flabby is a but much, thanks.
Oh, and does anyone else remember seeing some porn where all the cocks had been airbrushed out? It must have been on Bomis, where they issue a "Cock Alert!" anytime a picture of a woman also has a cock in it; as if a guy'll go blind if he sees another cock.
And y'all are going to totally lose respect for me, but I just realized I've never been to a gay bar.
what's going on? total darkness...I CAN'T SEE! MY EYES! NOOOOO!
Connoisseur of gay porn--that would be me. No, not really, but I couldn't resist.
I don't get the straight boys pecs & biceps thing either. You'd think they'd care about what girls like. Masculinity is really weird.
Wow. The upward curving cock is fascinating. I've never seen one like that before. Of course, I also don't look at gay porn often.
And ogged ... it is possible that I've never been to a gay bar. Oh wait ... I have. In college. By accident. But I'll go with you to one sometime if you want. (Could be our first date!)
Don't you ever get tired of teasing me, pg?
But, as long as the girls are here, then:
care about what girls like
In my experience different girls have very different preferences.
I always figured a small waist would make something else look bigger by comparison, so any porn male would look 'better' with a smaller waist.
Many actors have narrow shoulders for the same reason, it makes their heads look 'normal' instead of 'tiny'.
The true weighlifters I know call the 'upper body' guys light bulbs. They also disdain bicep curls - it is all about the tricep. They focus on the big three - bench, squat, deadlift.
I'm not much help on the gay thing.
Bphd,
I don't get the straight boys pecs & biceps thing either. You'd think they'd care about what girls like. Masculinity is really weird.
Oooh, oooh, I can answer that. Masculinity is about TWO things: attracting females and scaring off competitors.
Why do you think I'm teasing you? If we were geographically close I would indeed go to a gay bar with you! It would be fun. I'd even pretend to be gay ... and you could too!
In my experience different girls have very different preferences.
True ... but there are "types" and one could generalize based on a few types. The real problem, however, is that naked men look kinda silly in photos -- at least the cock-alert-worthy ones.
Me, I prefer my porn in written format leaving the images to my imagination.
Yeah, naked men do look silly in photos. Why is that? Also, seeing porn for which one is not the intended audience really makes it clear how absurd porn is.
No, all women like exactly the same things. For instance, while profgrrrl says she doesn't care for photos, I, because I do, know that she is merely deluding herself.
I think the "naked men look silly" thing has to do with there just being a lot, lot less history and experimentation to find out what doesn't look silly. Really and truly, there is some good naked man photography out there. Pick up a magazine called "Blue" sometime.
You'd think they'd care about what girls like.
Not really.
Yes, Michael THANK YOU. I knew someone would admit it sooner or later.
I don't get the straight boys pecs & biceps thing either. You'd think they'd care about what girls like. Masculinity is really weird.
How many guys give a rip about women's fashion? Also, one of the photos in the image search ogged linked could give the Talented Mr. Goatse a run for his money.
Dr. B---h,
Admittedly, I wrote that thinking it would offend you. But that also means that I ended up doing something positive completely without any expectation of reward. Hmm...whether to feel good about the thank you...
Anyway, it is in any case completely true. I care much more about what guys think of me. There are guys for who the reverse is true, though. Ryan Seacrest is an example. Paradoxically, I believe this quality makes those guys less desirable to women.
Oh, I'm much harder to offend than rumored. Don't know who Ryan Seacrest is. I do have a longstanding theory about the masculinity = impressing other men rather than women thing. But maybe that says more about the boys I like than anything else.
bphd,
Hetero men do bulk up to impress (and intimidate) other men. And, like Michael said, they don't care what women want, but they will pretend to care if that attracts women.
In the olden days we called the guys like Ryan Seacrest a "ladies man" and guys who cared more what other guys thought a "man's man."
I think that conflict (attract women or intimidate men) still exists today and explains much of male behavior.
Hmmm.
We are assuming here that no women like large muscles because the two women who read this blog do not like large muscles. I am a man and possess only moderate muscles, but I do know women who purport to like large muscles.
I also know of men who bulk up primarily for the purpose of impressing the ladies. The type of ladies impressed by bulking up probably don't read blogs much, but they exist.
True man's men, in the old sense, didn't care much about appearance at all, besides not smelling too badly. The archetype would be John Wayne. I don't think he worked out much. The mind-set was that caring about appearance is the woman's role, and that time spent on appearance is time spent away from playing poker and laughing with the boys.
This has changed somewhat along with the sexual revolution. The male muscle movement could be seen as a sign of female empowerment. Some women are undoubtedly attracted to men who intimidate other men. I don't understand why we've been treating those two goals as mutually exclusive.
Ryan Seacrest is neither a man's man nor a ladies' man, but simply a poser. I think he only lends confusion to this debate. A better example of a ladies' man might be Jude Law. I guess he doesn't work out excessively. But Brad Pitt is also a ladies' man, and he works out an awful lot. I think we would be hard pressed to come up with a true man's man in today's Hollywood. Maybe that's a good thing -- we sure wouldn't find a real ladies' lady.
Tripp --
I think the more common example is men who care what women want pretending not to care in order to attract women. Nothing turns off like eagerness.
Of course there are women who are turned on by big muscles. You only have to spend some time around a Marine base to see this in action. Takes all kinds, you know.
Yeah, some women are even attracted to mullets! Imagine that.
Ryan Seacrest is the host of American Idol. I saw him when he was interviewed on Conan; apparantly, his entire appearance -- tanning booth tan, hair colors, eyelash extensions, teeth whitening, -- is directly a result of advice from his female friends. Conan's reply: "Are you sure they aren't just fucking with you?"
It was a stark contrast between man's man and ladies' man mentality.
eyelash extensions? Good God, it's worse than I thought.
I'm not gay and I ask you to watch Big Brother to know this and of course read blog allegations such as this:
http://conformandobey.co.uk/2005_05_22_blogarch.html#111723866224212606