I wonder what these misled googlers were thinking, or hoping, as they trawled the interweb with their gaydar deployed. If he were gay, what next? Their eyes meet &ndash an eyelid falls and rises – they know in an instant: there will be hot, hot man love and then cuddling in Gladwellville tonight?
O ogged, how many imagined perfect-ketchup sweet nothings have you obliterated with this blog post?
You know, there's nothing that makes a faux-french restaurant like a bottle of Heinz.
What else would you put on your frites, alors?
Just dont do it with fast food frites, they tend to go purple.
Is there another?
Only wretched, tasteless liquids that misrepresent themselves as "malt vinegar" are available in the local shops. I'm not quite willing to pay shipping costs to have it sent. Only a few more months to go until I get to London again...
I have the same problem. There is ONE shop in Vienna where you can get
a) Sarsons Malt Vinegar
b) Branston's Pickles (The factory burnt down a while ago - disaster)
c) HP Sauce
There is NO source of Wenslydale Cheese known to me.
After 11 years I've finally worked through the withdrawal phase. Chastity is easier.
Austro, have you considered buying cheese from an online shop? For instance, www.wensleydale.co.uk (not a plug, just the first google hit) has 500g Wensleydale at £8.55, including shipping to Austria. I don't know whether that's a good deal, not being a Wensleydale afficionado myself.
Wot was the search, O? "Malcolm Gladwell Gay" doesn't put Unfogged on the first page AOTW.
Kriston, only the gallic nations and perhaps the dutch woulp put mayo on chips. So if its freedom fries and mayo, fine. If its chips we're talking about, then its Malt Vinegar every time. In extremis, ketchup.
SB: I tried buying cheese online once. I find paying 25 Euro a kilo to be too much for the quality that was delivered. I decided that committment sometimes demands sacrifice. Thanks for the tip though.
Though googling "malcolm gladwell" "other team" does yield this nugget:
The other team is aggressive and usually comes from behind to win.
But of course.
#16 - It takes a very specific kind of mind to google that! But now we're there. Is it a race?
BBQ sauce is good on fries, as is Cholula.
A race to the bottom, yes.
I meant the quote:
The other team is aggressive and usually comes from behind to win.
The context for the quote compares, dull-proverb-wise, aspects of basketball and business management. Thus:
Basketball: What happens to a team when they're ahead? They play it safe and conservative. The other team is aggressive and usually comes from behind to win.
Management: Companies in market leadership positions who play it safe are in jeopardy. Safe is risky, risky is safe.
Wot was the search, O?
I think it's usually just gladwell gay.
Unfogged is number 14, on the second page of results. Those Gladwell-curious folk are thorough in their investigations.
on the second page of results
Assuming you have the default ten results per page.
The combination of fries and mayo is e-vil. It is good, but feels so dirty and wrong.
Real mayo or from-a-jar mayo? Fries and aïoli is delicious.
Real mayo. There's a frites place that has pesto mayonnaise, and that's sooo great. But I've only had it three times in my life, because it really feels afterwards like I've committed some terrible crime.
Mmmm. There was a little frites place on West 4th, near NYU law, with dozens of mayo-based sauces. The Dijon mustard mayonnaise on hot frites was so good -- I lived on those when I was pregnant in law school.
You were pregnant in law school? Hats off.
there are frites places in NYC? wow. i thought that was a strictly european thing (fond memories of brussels.. ahhh). anyone know if anything similar exists in chicago?
ac has serious goopy liquid issues
Did you really feel obliged to write that?
The combination of fries and mayo is e-vil
This is one type of fundamentalism that gets my vote. Call me a frites-nazi.
Are we calling them frites because that's what we do around here, or is it just some spontaneous ambient phraseology?
Also, damn, I am hungry for some frites.
I don't think I normally have that reaction to food, there's just something about frites and mayo that bothers me. Gracefully ignoring Ogged's interpretation, ahem, I think it just feels like too much - like whatever that dessert is that's then deep-fried, i.e., something that's already bad for you in itself being topped with something bad.
Did you really feel obliged to write that?
"Obliged" isn't quite right, but I think I've been holding back, playing the slave to decorum for too long.
they're CHIPS, people. Get with the programme.
Is it clear that we have no idea what people mean by "fries" "chips" and "frites?" Pictures people, post pictures of what you mean.
whatever that dessert is that's then deep-fried
You mean, like deep-fried Mars bars?
Out of curiousity, does anyone else eat their pizza with ranch dressing? Or is that just me and the woman (girl at the time) who suggested it to me?
You, she, and the damned in hell, Tim.
I cant google graphics I'm in a Workshop, but get this from a famous recent "Letter to America":
10. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips. Fries aren't even French, they are Belgian though 97.85% of you (including the guy who discovered fries while in Europe) are not aware of a country called Belgium. Those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called crisps. Real chips are thick cut and fried in animal fat. The traditional accompaniment to chips is beer which should be served warm and flat. Waitresses will be trained to be more aggressive with customers....
when i talk about "frites" i am talking about the way they cook them in belgium, which if i recall correctly, involves some complicated process of soaking them in animal fat of some kind and then frying them, or perhaps frying them twice.
the other thing about frites is that you don't eat them with ketchup.
fries, i think of the shoestring fast-food type served here in the US, which require ketchup.
chips are, well, it's something british, and seems to require malt vinegar. perhaps a thicker cut?
i'm too lazy to look for pictures.
for a description of 'frites', look here. is this the place you were talking about, LB?
that was me. also, at least half the population of texas does the ranch-dressing-on-pizza thing. so, no.
Silvana, that does support my contention in 43, though.
The fries that come with everything you order in Greece, and fill out your pita gyros, are great. By extension: tzatziki is a good accompaniment for fries.
I use fries if the fried potatoes are served in an American context (that is by default), chips if I'm being selfconsciously British (talking to a Brit, actually in England) and frites if they're served in a French or Belgian style place, particularly in a paper cone with mayo. There's a difference: frites are long, thin, and crispy; chips are fatter and limper, with more of a 'big chunks of potato' feel; fries can go either way.
You were pregnant in law school? Hats off.
How did you think I got that way?
If you really want to hear me show off my "I was such a tough pregnant woman" credentials: the 1999 bar exam? July 27th and 28th. Sally's birthday? July 29. (This was, in fact no big thing, but it does make people blanch when I tell them.)
Silvania-
No, that one's a couple blocks away. Mine was Le Frite Kot (I think). But very much the same type of place.
w-lfs-n, good point.
i've actually done the ranch-on-pizza thing, though i've now abandoned it, but it seemed like a good idea at the time.
if you think about it, it's really quite gross. it's basically mayonnaise on fried cheese. which, i suppose might appeal to some people, particularly the czech, who serve large chunks of fried cheese as, like, a dish. breaded. with tartar sauce.
I cannot believe I actually started off a thread with that comment. For the record, no fries were served in the pseudo-french restaurant, making the presence of bottles of heinz all the more mysterious.
"chips" just seems wrong.
Silvana, you're right about belgian fries. They're traditionally double-deep-fried in horse fat.
The best bit about the bar exam was that it was in a huge convention center. I had written in with my application to ask for a seat near the bathrooms, for obvious reasons. When I got there, I found myself in a row of heavily pregnant women, who had all had the same idea, and one (non-pregnant) guy, who kept on eyeing us nervously, wondering what the hell was going on. I hope we didn't throw him off enough to affect his performance.
Horse fat? Horses have eough fat that people cook with it? They seem like such lean animals.
michael must be lying - that can't be true.
i demand proof!
particularly the czech, who serve large chunks of fried cheese as, like, a dish. breaded.
Mozzarella sticks? Saganaki? This is not limited to the wacky czech.
In re Pita Gyros:
Guys, Isn't there a major difference between chips/fries and fried or roasted potatoes?
There is a small deli in Florence near the uffizi that does a roast chicken with roasted potatoes (garlic and rosemary) to kill small children and old ladies for.
Creating a menstruating Barbie with Campari might be, though.
The acceptability of ranch-on-pizza is dictated by the pizza. If it's a generic carry-out, ranch is fine. But a truly great pizza should not be sullied.
The gyros places I went all used "chips"-style fries, not roasted or fried potatoes.
I think we're missing a key dipping sauce for fries/frites: the pan sauce you just made from the steak that will accompany your fries (cook minced shallots in the pan juices, deglaze with red wine and/or stock, reduce by half, add some thyme, finish with a pat of butter). Yum.
hrm, maybe I was lying:
According to American culinary celebrity Alton Brown, Belgian pommes frites are usually fried in horse fat. However, he is mistaken, as traditionally, ox fat was used, although now nut oil is usually preferred for health reasons. Belgian fries must be fried twice, and are thicker than french fries, but thinner than British chips.
michael: "chips" just seems wrong.
Typical deviant tendencies. There ought to be correction centres (note the spelling).
Mozzarella sticks? Saganaki?
i suppose. although i think the former is a made-up food (it's usually supposed to be 'italian,' although i never saw any such thing anywhere in italy or at 'real' italian restaurants).
as for the latter, i don't have too much saganaki experience, but is it breaded? though there was just a layer of stuff on the top. plus, it gets lit on fire. and there are shout of "opa!" this gives it a substantial leg up over smázeny syr (the czech version), in my opinion.
the Belgians, btw, have some some really nasty dipping sauces at their friteries. Mayo is the only acceptable one, unless (and this is quite likely) the average belgian spends more time drunk than I did.
Ogged:
I buy that. But given that, in my experience, it's all but impossible to find a great pizza outside the Northeast (although I think I've had good pizza in Chicago), the default national rule should be ranch-on-pizza is acceptable.
Chopper. Its nearly dinner time here. your 63 was evil. I now have a major blood sugar problem.
Austro, I fully support those. Start putting them in London, so you brits can be brouhgt up to speede with the reste of the worlde.
The former may be made-up, but people sure do like 'em.
Why? Its the rest of the world that is the problem.
i don't like the way the breaded part gets separated from the cheesy part. it vexes me.
There is great pizza in Chicago, so long as one recognizes that it is an entirely different dish than NY pizza. Chicago stuffed pizza? Nothing better.
I think I've had good pizza in Chicago
Well, if you like deep dish, that's the place to be. If you don't you should fucking move to France already. (And you can get a good "authentic" Italian pizza at very fancy places in most cities.)
72 was supposed to respond to 67. Internet connection at work is severely wonky today. This very comment will be delayed.
I've had good pizza in Chicago and California, so I think you're just not trying hard enough, Tim.
There is good NY style here as well. Piece is yummy.
Its the rest of the world that is the problem.
How would vous know? Y'all are too drunk to see things clearly. I know the real reason Blair supported the war. He was piss drunk!
I mean—I've had good thin-crust pizza in Chicago. Shocking but true.
(And you can get a good "authentic" Italian pizza at very fancy places in most cities.)
If you have to go to a very fancy place to get good pizza in a particular city, you may safely conclude that that city has no good pizza. Good pizza is to be measured by the individually-purchased slice.
That's probably right, Ben. Where have you (and text) had decent thin-crust in Chicago?
i doubt there's any major city in the US that is totally lacking in good pizza. i even had good chicago-style pizza in austin. and i don't much like chicago-style pizza. but it was good.
text, i've heard very good things about piece, but i have yet to hit it up despite the fact that it's not terribly far from me. assuming you're talking about chicago when you say 'here,' of course.
Michael. You could well be right. I knew there would be a reason to emigrate if I waited long enough.
Mind you, not as pissed as the electorate that returned him. (This is not a penetrating political critique)
Twin Cities--try "Punch:" Neapolitan-style pizza for under $10.
Or "Auriga:" cracker crust pizza at happy hour every day on a rotating menu. Buffalo mozzarella, Fresh figs and prosciutto neraly knocked me dead one night, and it was about $11.
Workshop over, woohoo, i m off home to the kids.
1. And you can get a good "authentic" Italian pizza at very fancy places in most cities.
I don't know what that means. (See this: "Shall we confine our attention to American pizza, now found throughout the world? If so, no problem--it was invented in America in the 1950s.") That you're a pretentious bastard, I suppose, but I'd guess we knew that.
2. Pizza should be flat and thin, the crust hard-ish. Deep dish is more of a pie of some sort, and it tends to get soggy.
3. There is some very good pizza in NY, but the best I've had has been in small-town college pizza parlours that use fresh ingredients.
Yep, I get some you know.
(You can snark me, but hands off the kids! :))
The boy is 6 the girl is 3.
I'm always surprised when people have kids. Congrats, at any rate.
I'm actually a fan of your drunken country, Austro, and wouldn't mind spending some more time there. It certainly seems to have better politics than this place.
and, for the record, belgianfrites.com says I was right about the horse fat.
Thanks.
I m really off now. I ll catch up on the pizza's later.
Ogged's clock is clearly chiming.
I have NO idea how that apostrophe got there
Michael: Its cool, I love the old place too, But God the Brits drive me mad somedays.
michael, belgianfrites.com doesn't exist.
nice try.
I don't know what that means.
Here's a menu (PDF) from a restaurant that w-lfs-n can tell us about in a few months. See those pizzas? They're probably good.
Uh huh. Your annual review is coming up soon, Austro. Better shape up.
okay, i concede. all this frites talk is making me very upset that there are two frites places within a couple blocks of eachother in NYC, and doesn't appear to be even one in chicago.
grumble.
Ogged's clock is clearly chiming
Midnight's peals of Oggedlets-wanting
But Chicago has Italian beef sandwiches, which are the greatest greasy spoon food in the world.
In fact my clock is not nearly chiming. My desire for children is at a low ebb.
One can get good frites at the Hopleaf, silvana. It's a bar, not a frites-place, but they're good. Come with aïoli.
It would make for better collaborative doggerel if it were.
Serendipity? Syncronicity? w-lfs-n?
Funnily enough, many moons ago, when I was a pup, I was in PA for a bit; I think I ate at the restaurant you reference a couple of times. If so, I almost certainly ordered a pizza. I don't remember it, so, ya know - not that good.
The Hopleaf is where we went during the First Unfogged Real Life Gathering.
I feel a sublime connection to you, ac.
the hopleaf comes highly recommended on several accounts. considered going there for my birthday, in fact. now that i know there is potato goodness, well, just another reason to go.
all this food talk is making me upset that i have to go meet friends for lunch now at a totally uninteresting restaurant, big bowl.
Re: #104
Given prior discussions about your Connor O'Burst, we should probably clarify that we are talking about your clock, and that your desire to have children is at a low-ebb. And that we fully support any policy of the US Government and its agents unthinkingly.
I don't even want to contemplate what I'll be having for lunch.
The Hopleaf was my friend K.'s favorite bar. I believe her book club used to meet there.
The trend toward large corporate cafeterias actually having good food is something I appreciate nearly every day. Today I had a smoked bacon and sundried tomato pizza. Yesterday I had a Salmon Nicoise salad...
Re: 112
I actaully miss Big Bowl--the one around here was shut down due to a health scare...but the pad tai was good, or so I thought. Maybe I just haven't had "the good stuff."
There's probably sufficient variation from Big Bowl to Big Bowl to allow one place to have good Pad Thai and another to have, mmm, less than good Pad Thai. The Big Bowl I have been to was decidedly of the latter sort. We have an abundance of good Thai and Vietnamese places in my town, so we wind up going for the real stuff. The one thing I really enjoued about Big Bowl was the jasmine lemonade with vodka.
by his own account, Malcolm Gladwell is not gay.
That account doesn't rule out his being bi, though.
Juxtaposing Jewish girls with spy novels and thrillers doesn't exactly scream "breeder alert!" to me.
(Use/mention ignored for aesthetic reasons.)
The frites place that LB was talking about has switched to a Belgian beer bar. I believe it may still serve some Frites as a secondary function, though I've also heard something about shellfish being served there. The beer is good. Pommes Frites, which silvana linked to, is excellent. I recommend their "War Sauce," which is mixture of peanut satay, something else, and another something else. I would have mentioned this earlier, but was otherwise engaged and could not keep track of comments.
#100 Uh huh. Your annual review is coming up soon, Austro. Better shape up.
OK Ben, only marginally uncomfortable now. Still i guess it would be easy for my employer to find me out if they tried.
i see there's clearly a frites market in chicago that is in desperate need of being served.
maybe i'll drop out of law school and open a belgian frites place.
sure as fuck beats doing his journal write-on competition.
I'm picking up my journal write-on packet in a half hour.
Jeez. Are all the commenters here lawyers or law students?
Really. I thought everybody was a philosopher.
Quite late to this discussion, but I have a real weakness for tartar sauce on fries. Tartar sauce on pretty much anything, now that I think about it.
w/d, you suck. that means you have longer than i do to finish it, which, at this point, is 49 hours and 25 minutes. and i've had it since last thursday.
haven't written a word.
I am neither a lawyer nor a philosopher.
Tartar sauce on pommes is just perverse, too
Enlighten an ignorant european nicht legal philosopher, what is a journal write-on packet?
so, law schools have various journals. my school has a bunch of them, like 8: law review, journal of criminal law, journal of intellectual property, crap like that. if you want to get be on the staff of a journal (mostly a bunch of grunt work, you have to review submissions that people send in to the journal, "source-and-cite" the ones that get picked, and also write something yourself), you have to do the writing competition. most writing competitions are "closed-universe," that is, you get a giant packet of info, and you can't do any outside research, but can only use that info. so that's the packet.
it's hard to get motivated, especially since, at least at my school, half of the decision-making is based on grades anyway.
Are there other law student/ lawyer commenters who were undergraduate philosophy majors, or do I at least have that niche sewn up?
B-wo, I know you were talking about both law and philosophy at Stanford at one point, did you settle on philosophy?
Journals are law review and other "lesser" journals, which students compete for spots on at the end of their first year. The write on is the competition. "Lesser" scare-quoted because they're lesser in terms of resume building, but not clearly in terms of anything else.
ahhhh.. of course. Thanks for that. I honestly had no clue. Well I wish you luck with it, sounds like a grind.
Cross-post, and the previous one is more helpful.
i got a minor in philosophy, but that's obviously not what you're looking for.
Tartar sauce on pommes is just perverse, too
I assume you're talking about pommes de terre, because tartar sauce on apples is beyond "perverse".
w/d, it's true, settled on philosophy.
Ahh yes, "Pommes" is the German term for fries, or chips as the civilised world knows them as.
comes from Pomme Frites
as the civilised world knows them as.
As.
I was under the impression that the civilized world called them freedom fries.
That is a self referential argument designed to entertain 270 million europeans
Random serious question, not formed based on anything here (really!): does the blogosphere seem to have become noticeably stupider in the last few months? I go to some of the other blogs I regularly read, read the comments, and want to weep. I'm curious if others have noticed the same phenomenon, or if perhaps I'm just becoming a curmudgeon as I age.
those asses were ugly though! i ll give you that.
Dunno, Tim, that's about when I stopped reading most other blogs. Coincidence?
I only read this blog regularly nowadays. It has gotten stupider at the same rate that I have increased my commenting. A correlation, at least. Oh well.
I've noticed sort of an increase in testiness. I don't read much in the way of right-wing blogs, but all the lefties I read seem fed up, rather than trying to do something constructive.
Might be an effect of being at the very early end of the election cycle -- there's just less productive for people to do, so there's more bitching.
does the blogosphere seem to have become noticeably stupider in the last few months?
It's directly related to the amount of drinking-to-forget 49% of us in the US have been doing since the last election.
I think comment sections, as they become huge, almost inevitably become sucky, because you've got a lot of drive-by folks who don't really care about keeping the place nice and troll or post "Frist!" or just write dumb stuff. The way to prevent this is by putting up a high entry barrier to commenting--say, posting esoteric philosophy stuff, or making the in-joke density so high that anyone who wants to participate really needs a full-time fellowship.
A blog with an active comment section is probably already pretty popular, and they tend to become more popular (and encourage more comments)--so if you read a blog with an active comment section, wait a few months and it'll be a blog with a sucky comment section.
Even Atrios's comments used to not totally suck. I was there.
if you read a blog with an active comment section, wait a few months and it'll be a blog with a sucky comment section.
What I don't get is why the sucky comment sections are self sustaining -- why does anyone keep commenting once they suck? Clearly they are self-sustaining at some level of suckiness, but I just don't get what the commenters get out of it.
re 151: Clay Shirky has an essay, A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy, about htat kind of concern.
See, that's what I come here for -- the constant reassurance that yes, I am a pariah. Makes me feel all warm and snuggly inside.
Aw, LB, you know I would propose to you if you weren't already married. To borrow a phrase, I ban because I love.
Plus, apparently we're all in agreement that we need some pruning in these here comments.
Every time ogged bans someone, he gets a food pellet and his genitals are stimulated.
Megalomania, it happens to the best of us. And ogged.
but all the lefties I read seem fed up, rather than trying to do something constructive
Well, I read some righty blogs, but mostly lefty ones. And it's often the lefties (on either set of blogs) that most dishearten me. I read these threads that are uncivil conversations about which party is more civil, and I just think, "Seriously? The big issue we need to square away is who's NICER?!" I try not to comment, and end up only commenting as a method of not stroking out, which makes me part of the problem. And just today, I realized that I'm in danger of moving into Henley-space: I'm a Democrat who loathes the Administration, but I'm starting to root for the Republicans.
Maybe ogged's right, and reading fewer blogs really is the solution.
Skinner, on the other hand, rules!
Hey, whaddya know, LizardBreath is reinstated!
Ok b-dub, so I go to read the Shirky, with Pavlov and Skinner in mind, and the first words are "Good morning, everybody." It's creepin' me out.
I'm a Democrat who loathes the Administration, but I'm starting to root for the Republicans.
No, no! Aaack -- tell me which commenters I have to find and smack around! Seriously, no, this kind of thinking is what happens when you get annoyed with the worst idiots on the leftish side, and start comparing them to the best and most reasonable righties. Don't do that.
Awww. Just for reinstating me, I'm going to try to talk Dr. Oops into quitting smoking.
Jeez. Are all the commenters here lawyers or law students?
I'm neither right now, but I am considering, with a still-undetermined level of seriousness, going to law school.
A modest proposal: In keeping with recent inroads into science by the ID cult, let's unban Lysenko - yay, Trofim Denisovich - skin Skinner, and only allow Pavlov to be an Aussie dessert.
I do love living in a kakistocracy. Yes, oh, yes, because it gives me the opportunity to see how many ways one can mix a G&T...
I am considering, with a still-undetermined level of seriousness, going to law school.
What no one will tell you: It isn't masturbation that makes you need glasses, it's law school and all those tissue-thin textbook pages.
There's still time to save yourself.
It does depend on how much you have to take out in loans, what you plan to do, what your financial situation is generally, etc. If you won't be saddled with huge loans, and don't need to support anyone but yourself after law school, there are jobs in which you can do good work.
I'm not a lawyer.
Seriously, no, this kind of thinking is what happens when you get annoyed with the worst idiots on the leftish side, and start comparing them to the best and most reasonable righties.
It's not actually that. It's more what might have once been termed Red Sox Syndrome. You disparately want your team to win, there are good reasons to believe it might win, but in your heart of hearts you know that it will lose ... to the dreaded Yankees...for entirely predictable and unbelievably stupid reasons. At some point, you just want your team to lose a lot, early, so you can just put your hope up on the cupboard shelf, alongside your childish dreams of "Happily Ever After."
Off to trim my Sage file.
I'm neither right now, but I am considering, with a still-undetermined level of seriousness, going to law school.
This makes it sound as if you're one of the classic: can't figure out what else I'm qualified to do; good at general reading, writing, school type stuff; would like to be employed sometime, sorts of law students. This is not a good enough reason to go to law school, says someone who did exactly that. If you aren't pretty darn sure that you actually want to be a lawyer, do not go to law school.
I'm not sure in what direction I want to go, so I'm trying to cut down my options. I don't currently have debt - or independent wealth - and right now support only myself.
So I suppose it's a question of finding a way to do it so that I could come out and actually do good work, rather than be forced to take jobs solely for loan-repaying purposes.
I will now read the comments posted while I wrote this one.
I was one of those too, LB. I found law school to be really good for me, but I do not enjoy practicing law, not so much. And I gots loans.
But if you're really hot shit, then you might get a fancy clerkship, then a fancy academic job, or work for the solicitor general or something. That would be cool.
so to reiterate, it might be worth taking out the loans to go to a top school, if you do really well there, as it would mean that you could both make money and do cool stuff afterwards. But you have to plan on working pretty hard.
If what you really want to do is write novels, but you feel it can be deferred, write novels.
And, on the keeping-your-options-open front -- I went to law school in part as a means of keeping my options open. You know, you can do anything with a law degree! Not so much. If you're deferring decision making, this is not a good way to do it.
eb, I thought you were currently a history grad student.
LB apply the same set of reasoning to the numerical science aptitudes and you get the reason why i initially became an accountant after university. I am now NOT a practicing accountant. It gave me a skill i could use, but that was it. Horrible years.
hah... i was waiting for that. *sits back and waits for the show to start*
LB, I completely agree, and were I coming out of college I would not even consider going to law school at all. But I've been in grad school (history) for 4 years, starting 2 years after finishing college, and have decided that I want to do something more practical.
I'm also tired of looking at contemporary politics, domestic and international, getting annoyed or outraged, thinking, "isn't there something I can do?" and then going back to not really doing much more than talking about doing something. Contrary to what some academics say, I don't think the academic world is a good place from which to get involved in politics.
All of that's vague, and intentionally so; I have a lot more investigating to do. But I have no intention of going to law school without intending also to practice law afterwards, so mainly I need to find out more about the types of practice lawyers do.
Not to hijack the french fries/malcolm gladwell/pizza/comments suck vibe that you got going, of course.
True that. Lightning should strike all who utter the phrase, "you can do anything with a law degree!" You can pretty much practice law, or teach it, if you do really well.
But if that interests you, and you're only worried about the loans, because you want to do public interest work -- there is a way to do public interest work. I know people who are doing it. Then again, I'm not.
Well, as I've said to w/d, feel free to email if you want to know anything about my practice as a disgruntled 6th-year commercial litigator in a big firm. I've also been a disgruntled litigator in a small firm, which isn't all that different, except that the clients are loonier.
baa, I don't think the word "hijack" has any meaning around here.
Which was your point, of course. Now, I will jump out the window.
Also I know people who got into political campaigns during law school. I don't think either of them are/were independantly wealthy. But one of them worked on the loathesome Jack Ryan campaign.
Hey, suicide will at least enbale you to avoid what is surely the worst round 2 in the history of the NBA. All I want to do is go home, order some pizza (of the non-freakshow ranch dressing variety) and watch a ballgame. And the man gives me Indiana-Detroit.
I recently spoke to someone who is planning to try the political campaign tactic, and was impressed/tempted.
Yeah, public interest work interests me, but not so much something like legal aid. I also need to figure out what people do with/in international law.
LB, thanks for the offer.
text, I hope whoever worked on the Ryan campaign was there to subvert it.
On the public-interest/politics thing -- if that's the direction you want to go in, start building organizational connections now. Volunteer places that you'd like to work once you've got your degree, get to know people, etc. Connections, a track record of being involved in public interest work -- these things are incrediblibly valuable in the public interest job hunt. Or, in other words, don't make my mistakes.
baa -
Really not. Sox fans used to be the sin qua non knowing desparation, that's all.
the political campaign tactic
This can be great, though with truly insane hours and conditions. But y'all are young, and would probably enjoy it.
197, another fuck to oboe classic from the master of the form.
Subverting the Ryan campaign: not a high degree of difficulty enterprise. That was the best political story of the past four years.
I'd like to think, secretly, that was his plan, and it succeeded smashingly. Anyway, everyone at school really resented him, as Obama was sort of a local hero (now an international one).
I'd offer you my e-mail address, but I don't have one that doesn't give away my secret identity. Plus I don't have anything valuable to add that LB couldn't tell you already.
What sort of international thing are you thinking about? Because a friend of mine has low-level, but quite cool-sounding job at Citizens for Global Solutions, and got it sans advanced degree.
I'm missing at least one indefinite article in that comment.
truly insane hours and conditions
The hours don't worry me too much - while I'm still young, that is - and it would be nice to put in long hours in the service of something more than papers/exams/dissertation.
Fuck. Can you see us previewing, ogged? And if so, I really didn't mean that about your mother.
Oh. Then I totally meant it about your mother. And the horse she rode in on.
w/d: thanks for the link, I'll check them out.
I'm thinking along the lines of democracy promotion (of the non-invasion variety) or human rights more generally and I'm particularly interested in Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union (more the latter). I have more work to do, but am not all that far from being able to use Russian.
That's the kind of thing that makes me wonder if it would not be best to maintain a university affiliation (and in fact I'll be taking a leave and not fully out of school until next year). I really wish I'd been more aware of fellowship programs before coming to school, as there are far more opportunities to get experience abroad when you are a student, or about to become one, than there are when you're leaving.
This also makes me wonder: why haven't I been reading her blog?
Anyway, thanks everyone for all the advice. After L's questions and now mine, maybe you should make this kind of thing a regular feature?
Re: the Shirky article, and comment-pruning, and megalomania:
The comment bloat here seems to be a function of more people commenting faster, and thus shorter, in order not to be left behind by the rapidly-evolving conversation. Also, at a certain, lower ratio of new posts to eager, megalomaniacal commenters (present!), the comments just pile up. So, just brainstorming here, we could abate the comment orgy by rate-limiting the comments, giving us time to realize that – to paraphrase w-lfs-n &ndash our comment's so witty, it ain't that witty.
And it strikes me as we blow past 200 that numbering the comments might abet an odometer effect, giving us the collective urge to produce for production's sake. Though in the absence of numbers, we'd need another way to identify particular comments. Random, non-repeating dictionary words might serve that purpose, adding another dimension of amiable weirdness as a byproduct.
Or: we could practice restraint. (Sez me! Oy.)
Forgive me, but what exactly is wrong with lots of comments? I guess I don't feel like the quality of comments has suffered overmuch with the recent explosion. I really enjoy the comments of some of those folks who have come very recently to the mix (I'm thinking specifically but not exclusively of DominEditrix and Standpipe Bridgeplate), some of those who have been around a bit longer, and the old school regulars.
Is there simply a desire to have more serious/enlightened conversations without the pressure of cock jokes an other "insider" errata? Why not simply flag threads as "serious?" I think there's enough of a cohesive community here to make that not too difficult to enforce. Frankly, one of the reasons I love it here is the explosion of comments and the twists and turns any subject can take.
And as for the recent explosion of assholes throughout the blogosphere, I'm reminded of a commonly used phrase on UseNet back during the first rapid expansion of the Internet: You can't spell asshole without AOL. This isn't to say that all idiot commenters are AOL users, but the general public has become more aware of blogs across the board, and it's a universal law that idiots like to shoot their mouths off.
I missed a transition thought in that last sentence: Not all members of the general public are idiots, but there's certainly a sizeable contingent.
regarding Usenet--didn't september recently end?
September never ends on Usenet anymore.
No really--I think AOL removed usenet access.
I don't think that people are talking about comments here; at least I wasn't.
eb - Public interest law tends not to pay all that well; keep that in mind when considering loans. If you do sufficient research, you should be able to find considerable grant money/scholarships, especially if you agree to commit X number of years to a particular cause. [Look also for oddball scholarships - I got one for a single parent in the top 25% of the class who worked full-time and went to school at night. One of my classmates had a scholarship for the 3rd child of a Lutheran minister.]
My specialty was estate planning and taxes, with a bit of corporate and foundation work thrown in. It was interesting because I enjoyed sparring with the IRS; annoying because I got tired of spoilt do-nothings whining because Daddy left money to charity and they were only getting 25 million instead of 30.
Feel free to email if you have any questions.
SCMTim, I dunno where I got that--I thought ogged said something about needing to trim comments, but rereading this thread I can't find it. Never mind.
Ben--I wouldn't know. In recent years I have occasionally skimmed through the groups dedicated to sf authors I like. They're generally low on idiots, but that's the only place I tried after all of the Usenet spam of the mid Nineties.
158: Plus, apparently we're all in agreement that we need some pruning in these here comments.
In response to Chopper's well-said 214, I should tease apart the two strains of thought tangled up in 213.
The first is self-critical &ndash you might call it the earnest newbie problem. I've only recently-delurked; I comment here because I love the place; but I'm alert to the chance of sapping what I love with some errant gatling rounds of bridgeplatica. Most of the language of 213 is wrongly couched in the first-person plural, and ungenerously implicates others.
The second strain relates to ogged's recent remark that he can no longer host certain kinds of threads because of audience growth and drift in the blog culture. That's unfortunate, and doesn't seem to have an obvious fix, if one exists at all.
Gaining new commenters is good, long and unpredictable threads are good, but melding old with new takes care.
SB, you have a link to that recent remark?
I guess I don't think the comment linked in 225 is true. More accurately, it might be that people would make crude jokes, but ogged would get at least as many forthright comments as he did on the "facial" post before it decended into rude comments, so nothing would be lost.
SB, you're certainly not alone in earnest newbie anxiety. I went so far as to ask ogged in e-mail if I was annoying his regulars (because I'm neurotic). I think you've had some just absolutely great comments. I'm glad you started commenting.
Sniff...
Who needs a hug?
Thanks, Chopper, that's kind of you.
This blog is very supportive, except when it cuts you down, and even then your pride laughs as it's gored.
I just assumed Ogged would ban me when I went to far.
Hey, I'm new. I could get banned, too.
And then who would I have to talk about football with?
I speak football. But Vikings football, which seems to involve a lot more use of the word "Uff-da!" than regular football.
I am neurotic about my commenting, fearing that I willl destroy that which I love through excessive petting.
You guys are all funny and should comment more. Let's see if I "win" this thread.
Will you love the comments and squeeze them and call them George?
It's just so pretty like rabbit fur; I only wanted to pet it.
About the comment explosion here--this blog was exactly what I meant when I talked about the in-joke density getting so high that it's a barrier to entry. Not that we aren't getting some very impressive newbies, but everyone's kinda on the same page, so the comments stay funny.
(in yer face, text!)
the in-joke density getting so high that it's a barrier to entry.
Is that anything like a chastity belt for blogs?
CHopper deserves an award of some kind for the loony tunes reference, although I'm still creeped out about that Roy Orbison thing.
I went so far as to ask ogged in e-mail if I was annoying his regulars (because I'm neurotic).
Did you wonder whether you were annoying people with your neuroses or did you wonder because you're neurotic?
I think one has to be neurotic to be reading blogs when the sun is shining, spring is in the air, there are frites to be eaten, work to be shirked...
Hmphf. I don't know about you, but my multitasking skills are fully up to simultaneously reading blogs and shirking work.
You have a disciplined staff of homonculi.
I spent a minute googling to try to find a sound clip of the looney tunes yeti. How is that not an ideal blog-related experience?
my multitasking skills are fully up to simultaneously reading blogs and shirking work.
Ah, but sitting at the computer gives one plausible deniability when others observe what might be shirking, especially if one keeps an Excel screen active in another window. This is not true, unmitigated shirking, but a hollow [or holo] imitation. True shirking involves intricate tropical drinks, a bartender named Sven, no billable hours at all, and reporting the drinks bill on one's expense account.