A sarong? Jodhpurs? Or, more seriously, maybe you could get away with black jeans.
I do not, and do not wish to, own black jeans. More to the point, I do not own any dress shirts that aren't black or dark blue (wait, I own one slightly-better-than-it-sounds greenish shirt).
You could make pants-buying part of the date.
How about white jeans? It is Memorial Day weekend. White looks good on a thin man. You could wear one of the dark blue shirts with them. And a jacket and a black belt to dress it up.
ac, much as I appreciate the advice (and you, dear ac, and you), the fact remains: jeans should be blue.
You could make pants-buying part of the date.
I could have sworn this was considered and rejected.
Ogged, no one looks good in pleats. If there's one thing I can say about fashion with some certainty it's that pleats are very much not in vogue currently.
Is there an H&M in Oggedville? They carry a decent variety of slacks and their prices are quite reasonable. I bought a pair of brown cotton slacks (that do not look like they are cotton) from them and usually pair it with black or white. Otherwise J-Crew sells decent khakis, which ought to go with what you're describing, so long as you don't buy pleats.
And since you didn't ask: If your shirt is fitted and not baggy, wear it untucked.
You're not the only one to have thought of that, SB.
You should get some white linen pants.
Oy, there goes my fellowship.
I'll second the linen pants. But only if you won't fuss over the creases.
Affection! At last! With only a hint of snark. You do tend to limit the options when you want to wear jeans and yet have to be dressy.
Agreed on the white linen pants, but not for a night date. That only works in Miami.
Linen! Yes, I do own some linen pants that are way too big on me. Perhaps I can shop for a pair this evening.
What's H&M, Kriston?
the fact remains: jeans should be blue
In Weiner's stead, I note that ogged's views on jeans are hidebound and reactionary.
H&M. Unfortunately the site won't let you really browse the catalogue without registering and playing with a model from The Sims (I tried, momentarily, to create Ogged's Date Look, but the interface couldn't compete for my attention nanospan).
If there's an H&M near oggedville, he could get some black! velvet! pants!
Too bad you can't browse the catalogue online. That's really stupid. Are they trying to keep people from buying their clothes, or what?
I hear the real cutting edge kids are all wearing mumus.
Otherwise, khakis, no pleats, no cuffs. Don't wear your shirt untucked unless it has a square bottom (if it has those tapered tails, it's declasse as all get out to wear it untucked).
H&M: Worst. Website. Evar. What could they possibly have been thinking?
How else will children in Bangladesh eat?
BR is fine. If you're going to go with khakis, and your complexion is dark, I think the idea is to trend toward the cream part of the spectrum and away from the yellow. I think.
Listen: people don't "typically" wear jeans there? Here's my advice: Fuck what people "typically" wear! Are you your own man or aren't you? If someone gives you a curious, querying or querulous glance, just stare them back down and make them admit that, since they're both terrible judges of character and through-and-through superficial, they must a certain kind of dress as a proxy for worth.
Alternately, you could try to argue that having to state the dress code is proof that the code is a sham, and the clientele has long since degraded in quality: a Potemkin village in reverse, with shabby dressed as the great, putting on a show for the maitre'd.
Remember, ogged: if it's you, it's U.
Bad Web site, but the store is so great. Though I think it can be tricky: There's one in in Georgetown (DC) that carries a lot of clothes for the queer eye, and one in downtown DC that offers more for the straight guy. But I'd say the prices are probably 2/3 of that for comparable stuff at JCrew or BR.
Some of it is also reported to be shabbily made. Good clothes though.
You know, she asked me which night I was coming before she said "semi-formal." Actually, I think restaurant dress codes are reasonable: one shows respect to the place and the other guests, who are having a special dress-up evening.
Don't listen to Ben! Style is about showing off your ability to comfortably navigate social obstacles. I think you could argue that within limits it's a measure of a certain kind of emotional intelligence.
I made the mistake of buying H&M jeans with "pre-distressed" fashion marks, which became "holes" quickly enough. But they were $30 and lasted long enough.
Let's remember that Ben is the one who wears ratty t-shirts to the symphony, completely ruining everone else's special dress-up evening.
Do kilts look good on skinny Iranians? How about chaps?
Actually, SB, the only times I've worn ratty t-shirts to the symphony was when I was travelling and had brought something like four shirts and three pairs of pants with me (to last three months). And in those places (Athens symphony, Berlin Philharmonic, Staatsoper unter den Linden), there were plenty of other young-type people who weren't dressed up at all. I blame cheap student tickets.
Such thoughtful people as Kyle Gann or Greg Sandow would support me in this practice!
I do think the second paragraph of 24 isn't all wrong.
Chaps would look awesome on ogged.
The white jeans outfit I was describing is more or less what David Hemmings wears in Blow Up. Sigh...
Dare I say that if it is such an issue we could go somewhere else?
signed,
she who apparently has not packed heels (so I'm gonna be really short!) for this trip.
No heels?! What about boots?
And I do want to go to this place, it sounds good.
Chaps would look awesome on ogged.
You're not the only one to have thought of that, w-lfs-n.
I packed neither heels nor boots but could probably borrow true hooker boots of the over-the-knee pleather variety from sissy1.
Hey -- I was packing for 10 days of playing tourist in Asia. Comfort won! I did have a pair of heels in until the last minute and then changed my mind.
I did bring a few skirts and can borrow clothes from sister and stepmother as needed, so I should be OK on that front. How fancy is this place?
If you shave your face, Sharp's is really nice-smelling, soothing stuff. For other parts I'd probably recommend other products.
It's not so fancy, I'll email you a link.
Kriston, what the hell are you talking about?
Eau de Quinine! If that's anything like what it sounds—cologne that makes you smell like tonic water—I'm there.
Ok, why the hell are you talking about?
You do have a badger-hair brush, right, ogged?
I meant a brush for applying shaving cream, not for your hair.
Sincee you don't have pants for your date, I assumed tips for special accents would be welcomed. But you're on your own now, buddy!
Ogged.
If 13 wqas a response to 11, I think that non white linen might still be acceptable at night. In addition to being comfortable as all get out and stylish.
I might wear jeans, but I would dress it up with the Italian shoes and a jacket.
The idea that profgrrrl can gain this sort of insight into your predate activity means that either subtext is dead or all is subtext. I'm not sure which.
I think Ogged probably wants to stay away from linen pants. He seems to like structure. That's probably what appeals about jeans/pleats. He should aim for thicker pants, I would say.
Re 48. Did any of the other parents on the blog just hear "and a bowl full of mush...."
Ogged's date with pg exemplifies the comment made by Georg Lichtenberg in the 1790s: "It is so very modern to place a funeral urn on top of a grave while the body rots in a box underneath. And this funeral urn is in turn a mere symbol of a funeral urn: it is merely the tombstone of a funeral urn.".
Ah, I remember the days of yore when Kriston wore nothing but a hole-y "Oboerageous" t-shirt and annihilated jeans. Now he's dispensing fashion advice on the internets. And they say you can't change a man.
Re 54. That's how we aim in the mineshaft.....
I think that should read "this comment". He surely made more than one in the 1790s.
Come to think of it, they didn't say "no shorts."
I've seen w-lfs-n. I've seen pictures of Kriston. This is my lowest moment.
I own neither comb nor brush
Good Lord! It never occurred to me, but is ogged bald?
Err, not, obviously, that there's anything wrong with that.
Sorry to disappoint, Tim, but not bald. Iranian hair is easy.
I see split ends are universal. Lost in space with no conditioner, eh?
Not disappointed at all. I am, recalling friends, staying studiously neutral on the bald/not bad thing.
oboerageous? Does this involve multiple players of the oboe? Is it like beatlemania for reed instruments? I suspect I am once again totally clueless on some pop culture thing.
No, it's totally obscure. A shirt I found that had a bunch of neon-colored oboes on it and the word "oboerageous" printed on it. Susan's tried to destroy it on multiple occasions.
No, this must be you. He clearly does not own a brush or comb.
But more importantly, why is Alan on Iraniansingles.com?
Maybe Alan is SCMT, what with his predilection for Iranian chickies.
I sense a disturbance in the Loins.
Perhaps Alan's Latter Day Saints missionary assignment involves, I was going to say deep cover penetration, but that would be wrong. Well, perhaps it involves dating nice Iranian girls telling them about the revealed truths of the book of Mormon.
By the way, Salt Lake City is the closest thing to an urban area populated entirely by Ned Flanders that I've seen. And they seemingly had no rush hour whatsoever. .
No, this must be you.
But he lives in Texas, so probably not. I do like the fact that he has "been literary around the world."
I suggest you pour water over yourself and shake it off, suggestively, at some point in the evening. That's what the man in the photograph does. Perhaps that's really his appeal for PG.
So it's like this: when the Urim and the Thummim really love each other, they sometimes have a kind of special hug. Um. And then they go to the hospital. And that's where holy books come from!
I like the black wristband with seashells on the pg's-type picture. It's like he's getting the best of the emo kid and frat dork worlds.
He's the desirable one on the American Queer as Folk. The way he seduces his first boy on the show is to take his shirt off and pour water on himself. Because he's so hott.
take his shirt off and pour water on himself
Should I be reading GQ for this stuff?
SB - That too belongs in the MoB. But if we are talking about crossbreeding with a Koran, there could be trouble....
Ogged -
I suspect Cosmo is a better source.
Which John Cusack film would be most useful as a guide, PG?
So what's this "dorkhead himself" bollocks anyway?
I am surprised you find Banana Republic requires alteration; in my experience thei'r clothes always have a good fit off the rack.
32 inch inseam too short, 34 too long; otherwise fine.
"I am surprised you find Banana Republic requires alteration; in my experience thei'r clothes always have a good fit off the rack."
You're the one.
Remember, it's not just you two. People's hopes are obviously riding on this.
People's hopes are obviously riding on this.
Screw hopes. Shouldn't we have some money riding on this? I'm not sure what the betting pool should be, so I'm open to suggestions.
Maybe minutes the date lasts?
But what colour shirt are you going to wear? We need to know all the petty details...
This is starting to have a strange reality show aura to it.
1. White jeans? White jeans? You know he's going out to dinner with a woman, right?
2. Some compliance with fashion is necessary, but there's a decent respect for the opinions of mankind, and then there's allowing oneself to be tempest-tossed by the vagueries of GQ. Contempt for pleats is faddish.
3. H & M makes disposable clothing. It's Toffler's dream come true. Seriously, it's made of crepe paper.
No, I mean "vagueries", the combination of "vagaries" and "vague", is a great word.
I'm sorry, I have a white jeans fetish, related to David Hemmings. It got the better of me for a moment.
But still, you have to be very thin to pass off white pants creditably, so it seems that people who can get away with wearing white, should wear white, somehow. Also, they make you look bigger, just as black is slimming.
It's true that Princess Leia looked great in white pants.
Vagueries: it's a perfectly cromulent word.
Shit, I should have made plans to defeat the Empire on our date.
Princess Armadillo also looked good in white.
baa, you do realize that I'm a boy (or at least will be trying to play one on this date)?
Contempt for pleats is faddish.
I did appeal to the current fashion gestalt, but I'll be left behind once the wind changes directions. I really dislike pleats.
David Hemmings seduced scores of women. He is, in fact, an icon of heterosexuality, although of a slight, somewhat delicate variety.
ac, you've got a lot of explaining to do.
I'm talking about what he looked like in 1966.
I think "mod" + "Italian" + "the sixties" is pretty much the formula for "gayest moments in recent history," in the not-that-there's-anything-wrong-with-that sense. Skip the white jeans, ogged. Chinos and a jacket. How is this even a question?
It's those pants and a black button-down. I don't think it's going to look good, but, well...
Thinking about it, "fey Brit" probably does a fair bit of work, too.
I was just thinking that he's someone who is slight yet virile. And he was famous for his conquests of beautiful women. Is that such a bad model, really?
Gay moments in recent history, wasp edition.
white pants -- linen or something -- I could see a very thin, very secure man pulling off. White jeans? I suspect that ac does not have ogged's interests in mind.
What about the dark blue or dark greenish shirts?
Gayest fashion moment in recent history in three words: Cinderella, .
Wow baa, even the model doesn't want to show his face in that.
You know, ogged, Errol Flynn is literally a byword for success with women, and he wasn't too concerned with dressing up. [Ogged adds: not safe for work.]
Yeah, that came out wrong (as it were):
Cinderella, Night Dreams.
w-lfs-n, you bastard. some of us are at work.
White jeans just came to mind because Ogged seemed attached to the jeans concept. I would not have suggested it out of the blue.
I disagree that contempt for pleats is faddish. Pleats have always been wrong. They enjoyed a short period of mainstream success. Now they will recede into history's cardboard box of old, crappy clothes.
Yes. Some of us are at work. The I-Pod was channelling Hot Chocolate's Sexy Thing and then that pic popped up on the screen.
Well, the support staff of the shark tank already think I'm odd, but really.
Slight yet virile.
I'm pretty sure I'm neither of those.
Cripe, is Mark Breland so old-timey that it's hard to find a decent picture of him on the web? Have I mentioned I'm going gray?
Not bald, though I'm pretty sure my hairline is receding.
IIRC, there have always been rumors swirling around Breland regarding his Cruise-ishness. Him and Carl Lewis.
I'm also not clear on why you need to be thin to pull off white pants. I'd argue that our own philosopher/running back would have the perfect frame for white pants.
We have a philosopher/running back?
You have to be slim because otherwise there's too much blinding whiteness.
Breland gay, eh? He was always my favorite boxer.
1. We have a philosopher/running back?
Well, the Gayatollah must be at least 6'8", as Randian love requires at least a 6" difference between the genders. And, if he really has a BMI approaching 25, then he's 6'8" and approximately 225 lbs. He doesn't like basketball, because ... there's really no explanation for that, but it means we need a football analog. So maybe not a RB, but a wide receiver. I don't want to out him, but is FL really Randy Moss?
2. You have to be slim because otherwise there's too much blinding whiteness.
There's a difference between "thin" and "slim", I think. You also need a tendency to stare at a man's trousers for that explanation to hold much weight, I suspect.
3. Breland gay, eh?
I think if you make your film debut in a movie called "Lords of Discipline," and which has both strong homoerotic subtext (military boys' school) and constant threat of sadomasochism (torture by said boys), there are going to be rumors. Plus, he never performed as well as expected, and I think questioning his "manhood" comes in there. I don't know if there's anything more to it than that.
4. He was always my favorite boxer.
Comments like that make me wonder if this entire site is a creation of my subconscious. Was it the glowing article in (IIRC) Time Magazine prior to the '84 Olympics?
(w-lfs-n, please clean.)
wonder if this entire site is a creation of my subconscious
Rather wonder if we have any autonomy at all, even in our deepest "secret" thoughts, or whether even there we're at the mercy of forces and currents of which we're dimly, if at all, aware.
There are no 6'8" running backs. Or even wide-recievers. Maybe a tight-end? Except we know that's not true.
Also, I'm telling you, if a fat guy wears white, he blinds everyone who sees him.
Rather wonder if we have any autonomy at all...or whether even there we're at the mercy of forces and currents of which we're dimly, if at all, aware.
I'm so not joining the Heidegger book club. If I want my mind played with, I can already go read Holbo.
I love The Lords of Discipline. But I suppose that's not a surprise.
Harold Carmichael. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/8486799
And who knew Sam Rutigliano was coaching in NFL Europe?
Ahem, of course I meant active players...
I think that they should make a video, but not with that horrible green light.
The gay jock of all time was Emile Griffith.
The gay jock of all time was Emile Griffith.
Are you sure you want to say that?
I just noticed that a gay friend of mine in my office is wearing white jeans today. He does look great. But oh well.
Re: pleated pants.
Who are you going to believe: Him or him?
Do the pleats actually work on Clive? They give him a weird below-the-waist bulge (huh huh). The same suit, sans pleats, would probably work better.
There's something ridiculous about "The Insouciant Star of Robert Altman's Gosford Park", and it has a lot to do with the word "insouciant".
And how bad is it that the culture has been moved by the obviously incompetant Carson? This is a man who advocates messenger bags.
A doctor who prescribes arsenic an upset stomach should not be trusted with open-heart surgery.
Perhaps Carson is merely an expression of growing anti-pleat sentiment?
Anyway, I stand by my claim that ogged's pleated pants weren't doing him any favors. I say this as someone who had previously been aware that pleated pants are generally looked down on, but had never before really thought about it or had cause to observe someone wearing unflattering pleated pants.
It was a real experimentum crucis moment.
Obviously, he's the smoldering star of Croupier. GQ needs to get its act together. Alan Alda could be insoucient, and who wants to dress like him?
pleats are less problematic with suits, for some reason. In general, the more casual the pant, the less cause for pleat.
I don't know why that is.
And the no pleat thing isn't something that was forced upon the world by Carson; it is something that has always been true. Pleats are unnecessary unless you have a very large stomach. Otherwise they serve no purpose.
Wading in where I have no business - I like pleats. But then, I wanted to be pirate when I was younger.
pleats are less problematic with suits, for some reason.
Because the suit jacket hides them. When visible, they're a bad idea.
I wanted to be pirate when I was younger.
I like that phrasing. Like "be gay" or "be British" (but I repeat myself), SCMT wanted to "be pirate."
B-dub, are you taking into account the fact that I was carrying keys in one pocket and a cell phone in the other? It doesn't do wonders for the drape, if y'know what I mean.
What's it matter? I saw what I saw.
That's more the kind of unfunny w-lfs-n joke that I'd come to expect. Thanks.
I saw something nasty in the pant pleats.
The pervert in the park with the present in his pant... pleats?
