so I was left thinking that I'd seen this movie a bunch of times before
This gets it exactly right.
I didn't see Ray, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to leave the theater thinking I'd just seen WTL, only teh Black.
But, admittedly, not know much about Charles, Ali, or Cash, the director may have been limited by, you know, the way it actually happened.
and Kinsey, except for teh gay, and teh science.
Pretty much all biopics suck. They consist of dialogue like: "But Mr. Pastuer, boiling milk, that's crazy!" "Crazy? Just crazy enough to save your life, Johnny."
Things I learned about Johnny Cash from Walk the Line:
Johnny Cash is a complete fucking moron who can barely speak in complete sentences.
Johnny Cash, in spite of what you might have heard, is a mewling wussy who cries every five minutes.
June Carter should have her head examined for continuing to hang around this pathetic loser.
Reese Withserspoon almost saves the movie. But Joiquin(?) Phoenix should really never, ever do films, I've decided.
What the fuck are you going to see instead? Narnia?
Gay cowboys!
Pretty much all biopics suck. They consist of dialogue like: "But Mr. Pastuer, boiling milk, that's crazy!" "Crazy? Just crazy enough to save your life, Johnny."
Or from this one: "You'll never walk the line, Johnny Cash!"
Or, June while sobbing about how much her heart is aching: "It burns! It burns!"
I haven't seen the movie, but put me down for "it's not as bad as Drymala says."
I suppose I'm late by seeing Harry Potter yesteray.
I was pretty much disappointed in the movie, but I was disappointed in the book (Goblet of Fire) too.
Potter and his pals have aged past their characters, which was unavoidable, I suppose. I found Moody to be well done. The older Weasely twins need to cut their hair - they look like unattractive girls. I suppose this makes me sound like an old fart.
I also miss the first Dumbledore. Stupid mortality!
Oh and I now know how the series ends. Check out Piers Anthony's "Macroscope" for the answer.
But what about the Man in Black himself? No question is asked of the ordinately outsized role he plays as teh old country star. I like some of his songs just fine, but a lot of his music is pretty cheesy. That mariachi stuff in "Ring of Fire" = weak.
Joe,
Well, yeah, but if Nexium had their way she'd be weeping "acid reflux disease, acid reflux disease."
It was probably too built-up for me, also. There are good parts. Like I said, Reese is fantastic, and I've never been a big fan of hers before.
I hereby renew my ostrich-based objection.
I likes teh mariachi stuff. I think the secret to enjoying Cash is recognizing that if you are awkward and white enough, and you do not retreat from the awkwardness, but embrace it, embody teh awkward, it becomes, like, supercool.
I wish, just once, instead of making a biopic, a screenwriter put together just a few banal scenes from anotherwise famous person's life, and that became a movie.
I want to see a movie only about drugged-out Johnny, and then the Ostritch part.
I'm with text on the mariachi stuff. Part of Cash's appeal is that he's so unapologetically old-fashioned. The idea that he doesn't give a fuck what you think about his mariachi horns. Therefore, I like the mariachi horns, because Cash himself is so confident in their rightness.
We're talking about a man who collaborated with Shel Silverstein, remember.
it burns, ogged. It burns.
That's because we secretly replaced ogged's KY with Warming Action™ with Tabasco Sauce.
I mean that I really like the mariachi stuff, Texas border music in general. I'm coming from an insufferably snobby position. Feel free to ignore.
Now you've got me all confused, smasher.
Also, smasher, do you have a more appropriate nominee for Teh Classic Country Star?
That's because we secretly replaced ogged's KY with Warming Action™ with Tabasco Sauce.
Tampering is apparently a big problem when it comes to these products. I overhear people in CVS talking about AnalEase and "breaking the seal" all the time.
28--Tom, please tell me you're kidding.
Has anyone seen the KY commercial where they're touting the wondrous properties of their Warming Personal Lubricant and it's being used as a massage oil?
Tell me, how often do you need to lubricate your scapulae?
Yeah, it's gotta be Merle or Jones.
For the border: Doug Sahm. He started playing as a studio sit-in when he was 14; he later formed a super group (The Texas Tornadoes) with Flaco Jiminez and Freddie Fender, two of the best Mexican conjunto artists playing when border radio was making everyone big.
Tell me, how often do you need to lubricate your scapulae?
Well, if you were flexible enough...
Gay Cowboys!
I'm surprised more hasn't said about this - it seems like the ultimate mineshaft movie (so of course, I want to see it). And am I the only one who thought of this movie after w-lfs-n's link?
I was left thinking that I'd seen this movie a bunch of times before.
That's what Berube said, and he's got a PhD in watching movies. But what he also said was that he liked the movie every single time he saw it.
That's why y'all aren't world-famous PhD movie-watching experts. You can't come up with the killer sentence at the end.
Berube scrabbled his way up from the hockey-playing Canuck slums to the big time, so he can identify.
Yeah, it's gotta be Merle or Jones.
Eh, George Jones only has about a half a dozen good songs. Those are terrific, some of the best, but the rest get bad pretty fast. And he was a Nashville guy - that's got to count against him. The Bakersfield sound is far superior, and Merle's got lots more good stuff, including recent releases.
Of course, moving beyond these two, there's always David Allan Coe to consider. He did record the perfect country and western song, after all.
What about women? Patsy Cline, Dolly Parton, and of course, Loretta Lynn should all be mentioned. Emmylou Harris is also fantastic, but she's sort of post-country, I think.
Berube scrabbled his way up from the hockey-playing Canuck slums to the big time, so he can identify.
So he was a winger for the Ottawa Senators?
And he moonlights as a Ph.D. AND he's seen every movie ever! Wow!
ash
['When does that dude sleep?']
The irreducible whiteness of Johnny Cash is important, I admit, but I also like the way he managed to pull off songs like "walk the line" while being the same guy who recorded "ring of fire" and later all the eerie stuff on American Recordings.
PS: good call, Emerson. We should definitely spend more time making fun of Michael Berube.
w-lfs-n's link oz mentioned in 34: the cover art on those books is great. It's worse than that International Male linkage from the other day, meaning it's better.
We should definitely spend more time making fun of Michael Berube.
It tends to make him show up and join in, so I'd have to agree.
We're talking about a man who collaborated with Shel Silverstein, remember.
Yeah, and then Diamanda Galas covered the song—straight—so she must be pretty fuckin' weak herself, right?
Face it, haters: Cash may not be The Country Star, but he still rules.
Patsy Cline, Dolly Parton, and of course, Loretta Lynn should all be mentioned. Emmylou Harris is also fantastic, but she's sort of post-country, I think.
Classic country star, as opposed to border music/Texas music/Tejano?
Bob Wills & Patsy Cline.
Although I expect you would through in the Light Crust Doughboys, depending on how far back you want to go.
ash
['Otherwise, I'm with Armsmasher.']
No, no, no, w-lfs-n, you've got me all wrong. I think the Shel Silverstein thing is evidence FOR, not AGAINST the contention that Cash rules.
What I want to know is whether Walk the Line depicts Cash's appearance on the Muppet Show.
I understand these fellows recorded some good country music.
Bob Wills & Patsy Cline
If reaching back to Bob Wills is okay - I was thinking in more recent terms - Mother Maybelle should get a mention.
"Pretty much all biopics suck."
Different subjective reaction here. I quite like, say, Gandhi, Reds, Ed Wood, The Aviator, Chaplin, Nixon, The Last Emperor, A Man For All Seasons, Patton, Serpico, Malcom X, among others that spring to mind.
And are you really going to claim that Lawrence of Arabia "sucks"? And Raging Bull? And, of course, Zelig? Or is this like Robert Conquest's famous characterization of the common mainstream approach to science fiction?
SF's no good,' they bellow till we're deaf.
'But this looks good.' -- 'Well then, it's not SF.' If it's a good movie, it's not a biopic?
"Check out Piers Anthony's "Macroscope" for the answer."
Dear god.
I haven't seen Coal Miner's Daughter in a long time, but I remember it being awesome.
If reaching back to Bob Wills is okay - I was thinking in more recent terms - Mother Maybelle should get a mention.
Ayup. They said 'classic' so I turned on my classic spigot. Most of the other people mentioned are 70sish. Which was just last week, dammit!
Howcome nobody ever mentions border music and zydeco in the same article? People will compare border music to stuff from West Virginia and auld anglish stuff before they do that.
ash
['Did Berube actually play in the Flatlanders?']
Porter Wagoner's "a satisfied mind" is the country song in my head now. He had a number one hit with it in 1955, but now google makes me go to frickin page 7 before it mentions Porter's name. Google why do you hate close harmony so?
This 4-cd set of western swing (for $23) is pretty awesome and makes a great Xmas gift. Some of the songs drop the n-bomb pretty quick for music so influenced by the african-american musical tradition, though.
Most of the other people mentioned are 70sish.
I was thinking '60's-ish, but not so different. I thought that was part of the point, though.
Try this for a really sick Cash lyric:
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/johnnycash/greengreengrassofhome.html
Read to the end.
Charlie Christian was one of the precursors of bebop, but he was from Oklahoma and was discovered in Bismarck, North Dakota. Obviously he played a lot of Texas swing and if you listen to his stuff you can hear a lot of country licks.
52: I spent a good deal of the late summer and fall with Wagoner's "I'll Go Down Swinging" in heavy rotation.
What am I going to see instead?
BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN. Are you kidding?
what I meant by biopic was a work that tries to encapsulate an entire life in two hours, usually a famous life. In other words, yes, I am going to say that those movies you listed are not biopics. Any movie about a person who actually existed is not a biopic. Of course Zelig fails the definition on several grounds, in that it does not concern an actual historic person. It's a good movie though.
The way I was using the term was fairly self-evident from that post and from others, but then I wouldn't want to deny you the joy, Gary, of deliberately misconstruing what other people write, which seems to be what you bring to the table these days.
can there really only be 640 google hits for "bareback mountain"?
the unfogged commentariat has been slacking off.
That is, not all of the movies you listed. I haven't seen The Aviator but I am inclined to believe that it sucks, as does Nixon.
Any movie about a person who actually existed is not a biopic.
Pasteur didn't exist?
text, your instincts are correct. The Aviator is one of the suckiest movies I've seen in the last five years.
Or perhaps what you meant is "not just any movie about a person, etc.". That would make sense.
that is what I meant to say. though Pasteur is a complete fiction.
There are even fewer results for "bareback mountin'".
I vote that we have a virtual Mineshaft viewing of Brokeback Mountain, all on the same day, followed by discussion via Unfogged comment thread.
I'm in. But can't do it this weekend.
Well then it's good you're getting some satisfaction at the moment.
I'm confused, Tia. Does the joke rely on the sexual implications of the word "it." I hope it does, anyway.
It's also supposed to rely on the sexual implications of the word "in." I'm just being silly, not particularly clever.
How the fuck can you guys talk about Teh Country Star for 40 comments and not mention Hank Williams?
Here's my list:
1) Johnny Cash
2) Hank Williams (it's close, but Cash gets the edge for the American Recordings series)
3) Merle Haggard
4) Willie Nelson (every song on this collection rules.
5) Waylon Jennings
5)
The Aviator is really good. Not much is playing near me besides Memoirs of a Geisha and Rent, though.
That second 5) can go to Loretta Lynn
well I'm all for those jokes. This weekend I'll be "in" Houston, and I won't be able to do "it" until Monday, but boy I'll be ready to do "it" all night on Monday, when I'm "in" Chicago.
with my cock.
The reason I can't do "it" while I'm in Houston is that I'll be too busy having sex.
I'm with Cala. I thought The Aviator was way underrated, as ambitious mass-appeal films go.
How the fuck can you guys talk about Teh Country Star for 40 comments and not mention Hank Williams?
Because I like Bob Wills better? In fact, I like Patsy Cline better than any of them? Honestly, I don't think of Cash as a country star, although obviously that's where he came from. (Cash seems closer (for obvious and non-obvious reasons) musically to Orbison.)
I vote that we have a virtual Mineshaft viewing of Brokeback Mountain, all on the same day, followed by discussion via Unfogged comment thread.
I have a page up in the browser from TNR, and it has an ad for that movie. "A big, sweeping, and rapturous Hollywood love story"...
...about ass-fucking.
ash
['I'm not going to see anything now that you mention it.']
Cash over Hank? And you're lecturing whom?
How the fuck can you guys talk about Teh Country Star for 40 comments and not mention Hank Williams?
By discounting anyone who was teh dead decades before I was born. Not because they weren't great, but because what it meant to be a country star changed.
This weekend I'll be "in" Houston
Dude, Houston is gross. Worst plastic surgery disaster evar.
should I be disappointed in myself for knowing exactly what you were talking about before following the link?
"A big, sweeping, and rapturous Hollywood love story"...
...about ass-fucking.
SFW? Is the Missionary Position so much more romantic?
Stupid HTML. The second paragraph was supposed to be in italics too.
Everyone likes (apparently) to criticize; me, I liked the movie a lot, and the actors in it.
AFA who is the definitive Country artist: surely Hank Williams, no? I think of Cash as straying muchly from straight-up Country. (I am not hereby denigrating his music; deed I would sooner listen to an album of his than one of Williams'.) Also: I think Ernie Tubb (though less recognized than Williams) is a major contender.
I guess this is the time for me to say that my favorite contry musician is Ray Charles: Modern Sounds in Country and Western Music, vols. I and II.
And also my con's defunct band, the Flatirons, which had a fantastic lead singer, Wendy Pate, who happened to be half Yapese.
Pwnd. I had not read Chopper's 74 when I posted. Still I like to think I contributed something by bringing up Tubb's name.
And also, I had not read Chopper's 72.
Cash over Hank? And you're lecturing whom?
Yes, Cash over Hank. Hank was awesome, but he burned out too soon. Cash has the 50+ year career, and the courage to write and sing about his demons. Hell, Hank's voice and music were probably both technically better than Johnny's, but Johnny had soul.
check it out: the u chicago law faculty have modelled a blog on unfogged:
http://uchicagolaw.typepad.com/faculty/
the courage to write and sing about his demons
As opposed to cheerful Williams numbers like "Ramblin' Man." Williams burned out too soon but he packed in a lot into his career.
Anybody who thinks that Walk the Line was bad should watch Great Balls of Fire on DVD just to see how low a music biopic can sink.
Not counting the movies they showed on MST3K, it's definitely on my top 3 list of WORST MOVIES EVER.
I can't "do it" until next weekend, actually, b/c Mr. B. will be in NYC at the Great Unfogged Meetup (the bastard), which means I'll have no babysitting. And also b/c I don't get paid until next Thursday, which means I have no cash.
How about next Saturday? Sunday? Monday?
You know, a faculty blog is an awesome idea.
The u chicago one has some good stuff on it, as it turns out. It looks eerily like this place, though I don't think it would be proper of me to donate a cock joke there.
A week from Sunday is good for me.
I think I could "do it" on Sunday the 18th, at the Mineshaft.
"Doing it" as a group on the 18th would be nice, as it would give me a break from grading.
Special screening in the Banana Lofts? Hosted by Annalise?
I could be in, deep in (with the appropriate accessory of course) on Sunday the 18.
95: As a redeeming factor, the soundtrack to Great Balls of Fire has one of the definitive Jerry Lee Lewis tracks ever, his solo rendition of "That Lucky Old Sun". Unbelievably, it was left off the misleadingly named All Killer, No Filler anthology, which has too much early/mid-sixties stuff. He does the song nice and easy, not unlike his rendition of "Over the Rainbow", but without the strings and not as boozy. Lovely.
The Essential Willie Nelson is indeed a special record. I expected it to be good, but I had no idea it would be so artful.
Hank Williams was undoubtedly a greater country musician and songwriter than Cash; I think it's debatable as to whether he was the greater star. If it comes down to the catalog, Williams would beat just about anyone.
Roy Acuff bears consideration, among the older performers, especially Roy Acuff singing Hank Williams. How many country songs are direct ripoffs of "The Great Speckled Bird"? Quite a few, I think.
If we're talking older, older performers Jimmie Rodgers also deserves consideration. Especially the jazzy stuff.
My exposure to country is pretty limited, but Doc Watson has a place in my heart.
And I've never, ever seen a biopic I've enjoyed, and more usually, a movie labelled a biopic will not get my $10.50 or even my $2.50.
"Gay cowboys" has some appeal, but I hear that Bareback Mountain is more of a tragic love story: also not on the Jackmormon-approved list of movie genres.
[/impossible-to-please closed-mindedness]
"Check out Piers Anthony's "Macroscope" for the answer."
Dear god. "
Still got my original copy around somewhere. Don't remember a thing.
Tried to watch Aviator last night. Sucked indeed.
Flatt & Scruggs & Foggy Mountain Boys were in my rotation for a long time.
Jackmormon, you're going to miss out on all the fun. I anticipate that Brokeback Mountain will do an excellent job of manifesting the latent homoeroticism underlying Westerns and the American myth of the strong but silent male.
Plus, pretty!
American myth of the strong but silent male.
Silent? Dammit, I knew I was missing part of the equation somewhere...
Yeah, but is it really fun if the love story turns sour, complicated, and tragic?
Ok, just so that I can be a crank in comments, I'll try to catch the flick in the next weeks. I'm not sure yet whether I'll be in internet-addicted NYC or Mormon-family-land CA on the 18th, but I'll do me best to participate.
Yeah, but is it really fun if the love story turns sour, complicated, and tragic?
Does the love between men and women refer only to the moments when they are in each other's arms? The man who grieves over a love affair broken off before it was fulfilled, who bewails empty vows, who spends long autumn nights alone, who lets his thoughts wander to distant skies, who yearns for the past in a dilapidated house—such a man truly knows what love means, though it is true that it may not be really fun.
O w-lfs-n, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bringest me to nothing.
(Jer 10:24)
Generally, I agree with you. Literary depictions of complex, psychological, heartbreaking, realistic love affairs kill me perhaps more than I'm comfortable with. Hollywood's attempts to represent the same usually just make me feel manipulated. Not universally! But the movies marketed as tragic love stories usually veer in that direction.
I should perhaps own up to having copied all of 111 except for ", though it is true that it may not be really fun." from the Tsurezuregusa of Yoshida Kenko.
Could someone explain how The Aviator didn't suck? The problem with WTL: hey, your life is kind of a cliche, dude. The problem with TA: hey, your life has some irritating and time-consuming digressions leading to a not-so-exciting conclusion. Also, Leonardo. And finally Cate Blanchett as Thurston Howell III.
Somehow, I'm not embarassed at having slung Jeremiah back at Yoshida Kenko.
Still: I shake my head at you, Mr. w-lfs-n.
SFW? Is the Missionary Position so much more romantic?
You name a movie that's evidently supposed to be love storyabout gay cowboys Brokeback Mountain?
It's an inside joke, right?
ash
['...a love story about gay cowboys into B&D? Or S&M?']
JM--you should check out the original story in Annie Proulx's Close Range. It is damn good (as are many of the other stories in the book--the first, "The Half-Skinned Steer," is worthy of Flannery O'Connor). ash, you too.
Matt--Okay, I'll do that. Somehow tragic love works better for me in print than in ceeluloid.
I loved 111, and I thought that the "may not be really fun" part did a nice job of undercutting it.
ash, you too.
H'ok. Books beat the hell out of movies at this point for me. I've seen maybe one movie in the theatres in the last coupla years. When you keep ending up mouthing the dialogue to any new movie a few minutes before the actors on the screen say it, boredom quickly sets in.
As for the title, it stills seems like a case of 'Stereotypes are bad! Stereotypes are evil! We hate stereo....We LOVE stereotypes! Yay, stereotypes!'
ash
['Y-M-C-A!']
"but then I wouldn't want to deny you the joy, Gary, of deliberately misconstruing what other people write, which seems to be what you bring to the table these days."
You read my mind, and yet I don't sleep with you.
Man, even if we talk biopics, I am The Evil Guy.
If only I had the love of a mini-me. Jeezus fucking christ, if I said I liked blue, i'd be misconstruing purple, at the table, apparently.
"I anticipate that Brokeback Mountain will do an excellent job of manifesting the latent homoeroticism underlying Westerns and the American myth of the strong but silent male."
Substitution tends to be better than substance. I'm just generally observing. It's like anticipation is often better than deliverance. Or like imagination tends to be better than manifestation.
There are glorious exceptions.
Alas, that they are exceptions.
Could someone explain how The Aviator didn't suck?
I liked Leonardo. And Cate. And Alan Alda. The plot itself was a bit dull; I kept feeling like there was an in-joke that I wasn't getting (namely: why am I supposed to care about whether this guy's wooden plane will fly?), but I still enjoyed it.
I was pissed that I picked up the Village Voice article and they basically gave away the end of BM in the first paragraph. Thing number 313 to hate about the Voice: they think they are too arty and sophisticated for spoiler alerts.
they basically gave away the end of BM
At the Mineshaft.
JM--you should check out the original story in Annie Proulx's Close Range. It is damn good (as are many of the other stories in the book--the first, "The Half-Skinned Steer," is worthy of Flannery O'Connor). ash, you too.
Or you could read the story right here, right now.
bob mcmanus,
I suppose a reference to "Sos the Rope" won't jog any memory?
Anthony was heady stuff for hormone laden yet sexually frustrated teen boys. Meaning me. He knew enough to include sex and to make it seem plausible even for a bumbling teen.
In some ways I think Libertarianism has the same appeal.
Joe Drymala -- thanks for the pointer. What an extraordinary story. I've been looking forward to this movie, reading the story has increased my expectations.
Just finalized my plan to see it tonight. None of this "maybe next weekend" flightiness.
Well just don't drop any spoilers on us ac.
Anybody have recommendations for what I should read by Proulx? I never read anything by her before but I sure liked that story. Is she primarily an author of short stories or are there novels too? I will certainly look for that book Matt Weiner recommended upthread.
The Shipping News is a modern classic.
It won the Pulitzer, as a matter of fact.
127
Good God, it does. "Sos the Rope". But that is all.
Without cheating, I was trying to remember the Anthony book with the sex scene I loved so well.
"But you're bleeding"
"Silly, that isn't blood"
Just a warning, and I hope I'm not too late: watching Brokeback Mountain can turn you gay.
LOL. I think this woman's husband left her because she's too stupid to live with.
